Towns You Don't (or Can't) Avoid

[jakeroot]

Everyone else seems to be going on about cities they can't avoid. How about cities that you choose not to avoid?

Most of the time, going right through the heart of a city - or taking a city street when there's a freeway - is an inconvenience and not worth the bother unless you've got time to spare. This is especially true on trips, but less so for local travel.

I was more going off the assumption that, as roadgeeks, we naturally build in "dicking around" time into our schedules. For some, this means clinching a highway or something, but for others, it might be going directly through "that" city just because you want to.

[webny99]

Everyone else seems to be going on about cities they can't avoid. How about cities that you choose not to avoid?

Most of the time, going right through the heart of a city - or taking a city street when there's a freeway - is an inconvenience and not worth the bother unless you've got time to spare. This is especially true on trips, but less so for local travel.

I was more going off the assumption that, as roadgeeks, we naturally build in "dicking around" time into our schedules. For some, this means clinching a highway or something, but for others, it might be going directly through "that" city just because you want to.

I can't really build in specific extra time to spend on the road anymore. It's this forum instead, probably more often than it should be.

The problem is that there's nothing nearby that I haven't already seen many times. Downtown Rochester is blah (except for the parts we show to visitors... been there, done that), and we don't have cool inner suburbs/secondary cities like you do in the PNW and the DC area. These apartments are literally, no joke, the only structures of 10+ stories in the entire area outside the CBD. And anything further than 30 minutes or so kind of has to wait for the right opportunity. This is partly why I mentioned Pittsburgh - it's the nearest large city that I haven't explored at all and would make every effort not to avoid.

[Flint1979]

Everyone else seems to be going on about cities they can't avoid. How about cities that you choose not to avoid?

Most of the time, going right through the heart of a city - or taking a city street when there's a freeway - is an inconvenience and not worth the bother unless you've got time to spare. This is especially true on trips, but less so for local travel.

I was more going off the assumption that, as roadgeeks, we naturally build in "dicking around" time into our schedules. For some, this means clinching a highway or something, but for others, it might be going directly through "that" city just because you want to.

I can't really build in specific extra time to spend on the road anymore. It's this forum instead, probably more often than it should be.

The problem is that there's nothing nearby that I haven't already seen many times. Downtown Rochester is blah (except for the parts we show to visitors... been there, done that), and we don't have cool inner suburbs/secondary cities like you do in the PNW and the DC area. These apartments are literally, no joke, the only structures of 10+ stories in the entire area outside the CBD. And anything further than 30 minutes or so kind of has to wait for the right opportunity. This is partly why I mentioned Pittsburgh - it's the nearest large city that I haven't explored at all and would make every effort not to avoid.

I basically feel the same way about my area. It's boring because there is nothing new to see so you just keep going over the same areas. I can go north, south, east or west and I already know what's there.

That's why county clinching has become fun for me. You get to see areas you've never seen before.

[GaryV]

Thanks to Lake Erie, you don't avoid Sylvania or Toledo, Ohio if driving between Michigan's eastern Lower Peninsula (Thumb area down to the Ohio border) and points south or southeast.

You can go through Canada.

I don't know why anyone would want to really. Dealing with customs especially coming back into the U.S. is a challenge that I'd rather not deal with.

At one point there was no issue at customs either way, just a wave through. It all changed after 9/11. And, due to the response to COVID, the border's been closed since March and likely will be extended at least to August 21.

There definitely was a customs check before 9/11.  Not nearly as rigorous (if you can even call it that now - for most people they only have to show their passport and it gets scanned).  But it was there.  However the only delay that most people encountered was the backup getting to the customs booth.  Usually you went through in just a few seconds, sometimes without needing to show ID.  Just state your citizenship and where you were headed, and if you had anything to declare.  There was only one time crossing from Port Huron to Sarnia where we had any hassle, and that was probably because we were just taking a sight-seeing trip along the east side of the St Clair River and Lake St. Clair and would re-enter the US at Windsor - that route didn't make any sense timewise.  And if you were profiled some way as being a drug runner, you could expect additional scrutiny.

[Flint1979]

Thanks to Lake Erie, you don't avoid Sylvania or Toledo, Ohio if driving between Michigan's eastern Lower Peninsula (Thumb area down to the Ohio border) and points south or southeast.

You can go through Canada.

I don't know why anyone would want to really. Dealing with customs especially coming back into the U.S. is a challenge that I'd rather not deal with.

At one point there was no issue at customs either way, just a wave through. It all changed after 9/11. And, due to the response to COVID, the border's been closed since March and likely will be extended at least to August 21.

Before 9/11 it was you could pull up to customs and they'd ask you for your citizenship and where you are headed and all you had to say is U.S. for citizenship and if you were headed to New York you'd just tell them you're just passing through on your way to New York and you'd be on your way. I don't even know how bad it is anymore since I haven't crossed the border since 2003.

There definitely was a customs check before 9/11.  Not nearly as rigorous (if you can even call it that now - for most people they only have to show their passport and it gets scanned).  But it was there.  However the only delay that most people encountered was the backup getting to the customs booth.  Usually you went through in just a few seconds, sometimes without needing to show ID.  Just state your citizenship and where you were headed, and if you had anything to declare.  There was only one time crossing from Port Huron to Sarnia where we had any hassle, and that was probably because we were just taking a sight-seeing trip along the east side of the St Clair River and Lake St. Clair and would re-enter the US at Windsor - that route didn't make any sense timewise.  And if you were profiled some way as being a drug runner, you could expect additional scrutiny.

[Super Mateo]

Pretty tough to avoid Gary, IN and it's ugly NWI cousins if you are traveling eastbound from N. IL, WI, etc toward IN, OH, MI and beyond - thanks to Lake Michigan. That pinch point has much of America's east-west traffic crammed on to 2 freeways: I-90 and I-94 (each of which shares time with I-80).  And both are usually under construction!

If I could avoid that horrid traffic area in NW Indiana, I would but it's nary impossible to do.

And I-90, with its huge toll on the Skyway, adds even more vehicles onto I-80/94.  It's like driving in a video game.  It's merely just bad on weekends; weekdays I-80/94 is efficient at raising my blood pressure.  I'm better off on the slower US 30.

The Borman can be its own special kind of hell.  Where else can you have to dodge wall-to-wall semis, FIBs, Cheseheads hogging the left lane at low speeds, and all other manner of assholes from across the country just because they have to be on I-80/94 to get somewhere else?  I've come across traffic jams (thankfully in the opposite direction) at 3 am there!

And trucks that ignore truck lane restrictions, mergers that don't pay any attention to the road they're merging onto, lane weavers, the occasional shoulder driver, signs invisible due to trucks, a laughable 55 speed limit...The Borman/Kingery is about 17 miles of pure misery.  As a bonus, if you come from or head west on 80/294, they hit you with a toll so you can pay for your misery.

[kphoger]

When I am going due south into Texas to places like Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, DFW is hard to avoid--it can be done, but tends to be more trouble than it is worth.

Especially Houston.  At least there are a couple of halfway decent alternatives for the route to San Antonio (your personal dislike of US-281 aside).

I swore off driving through Dallas—Fort Worth several years ago, and I've been true to my word so far.  Fortunately, though, I haven't needed to go to Austin or San Antonio or Houston.  However, my parents have been kicking around an idea of doing a combined family vacation to Galveston.  If that ends up happening, I've decided, I'll probably do this route across the area.

Similarly, a trip due east or northeast usually involves going through Kansas City.  Again, it can be avoided, but usually at some expense in added distance or hassle.

For driving east, I don't mind using I-470 around KC too much.  But, northbound, you're definitely right.  I've done US-169 and K-4 down from Iowa before, and it wasn't worth it.

[J N Winkler]

When I am going due south into Texas to places like Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, DFW is hard to avoid--it can be done, but tends to be more trouble than it is worth.

Especially Houston.  At least there are a couple of halfway decent alternatives for the route to San Antonio (your personal dislike of US-281 aside).

I swore off driving through Dallas—Fort Worth several years ago, and I've been true to my word so far.  Fortunately, though, I haven't needed to go to Austin or San Antonio or Houston.  However, my parents have been kicking around an idea of doing a combined family vacation to Galveston.  If that ends up happening, I've decided, I'll probably do this route across the area.

I can see the appeal, though personally I would be looking to avoid I-35E altogether given how badly TxDOT and its design-builder screwed up the interim widening.

I like to visit Houston, but not at this time of year because it is one of the most A/C-dependent major cities in the US.  I'd be thinking in terms of going between late fall and late winter when the humidity is tolerable, which means I'd be working with less daylight.  I know from experience that Wichita to Houston (straight shot through DFW) can be done in one day entirely in daylight in mid-February, but if I were looking to avoid Dallas altogether, I'd probably break the drive down into two days and swing as far east as Cooper, Texas, to check out where distant relatives used to live.

Similarly, a trip due east or northeast usually involves going through Kansas City.  Again, it can be avoided, but usually at some expense in added distance or hassle.

For driving east, I don't mind using I-470 around KC too much.  But, northbound, you're definitely right.  I've done US-169 and K-4 down from Iowa before, and it wasn't worth it.

A few years ago I drove from Wichita to Dodgeville, Wisconsin, while on a county-collecting kick, and since I was missing Doniphan County in Kansas and many of the Platte Purchase counties in Missouri, I ended up following a convoluted routing involving K-4, US 59, K-7, US 36, US 71, SSR N, SSR M, US 169 (still a stairstep route in northern Missouri), and Iowa SR 2.  I'm not doing that again, especially since I discovered that the k-values on summit curves on Missouri lettered routes are so low they play merry hell with cruise control logic on a mid-noughties Camry in such a way that you can set it for 45 and then not dip below 55.

[vdeane]

Thanks to Lake Erie, you don't avoid Sylvania or Toledo, Ohio if driving between Michigan's eastern Lower Peninsula (Thumb area down to the Ohio border) and points south or southeast.

You can go through Canada.

I don't know why anyone would want to really. Dealing with customs especially coming back into the U.S. is a challenge that I'd rather not deal with.

At one point there was no issue at customs either way, just a wave through. It all changed after 9/11. And, due to the response to COVID, the border's been closed since March and likely will be extended at least to August 21.

There definitely was a customs check before 9/11.  Not nearly as rigorous (if you can even call it that now - for most people they only have to show their passport and it gets scanned).  But it was there.  However the only delay that most people encountered was the backup getting to the customs booth.  Usually you went through in just a few seconds, sometimes without needing to show ID.  Just state your citizenship and where you were headed, and if you had anything to declare.  There was only one time crossing from Port Huron to Sarnia where we had any hassle, and that was probably because we were just taking a sight-seeing trip along the east side of the St Clair River and Lake St. Clair and would re-enter the US at Windsor - that route didn't make any sense timewise.  And if you were profiled some way as being a drug runner, you could expect additional scrutiny.

As someone whose family spent vacations in the 1000 Islands and was less than 10 years old before 9/11, crossing the border didn't really feel that much different than paying a toll on the Thruway.  My parents do, however, have a story from where I gave them a panic attack crossing into Canada.  I was quite young and to keep me from joking around, they told me not to say anything as we were crossing the border.  At the time, however, they were stories of child abductions crossing the border, and at one point, the customs agent asked if Mom and Dad were my parents.  Being one to take things literally, I didn't say anything, and they had to tell me it was OK to respond to the question!

Canada is still an easy crossing if one's itinerary isn't unusual.  The US, however, has a tendency to do a full interrogation every single time, especially if one uses a passport book - they like to flip through every single page, and keep asking questions until they're through, whether it's related to one's travel or not.  Last time I crossed, they grilled me at length about my (then) recent career change and had me open my trunk.

As such, I don't find crossing the border to be a particularly fun experience, even as I've otherwise enjoyed my trips to Canada, and won't cross without a significant trip planned.  Unfortunately, life hasn't handed me many such opportunities (and those it did universally fell through), and the first time I tried to create my own, the pandemic happened.  As such, I haven't been across since 2014, and don't know when that will change.

[cu2010]

See, I cross the border somewhat frequently and have the opposite experience- I tend to have more trouble getting into Canada than out of it. Even then, my last few crossings have been easy both ways... on my last trip, I was literally cleared in thirty seconds each way at the Seaway International Bridge.

The only times I have trouble is when I'm with my dad... and that's because of him, not me.

[kkt]

There definitely was a customs check before 9/11.  Not nearly as rigorous (if you can even call it that now - for most people they only have to show their passport and it gets scanned).  But it was there.  However the only delay that most people encountered was the backup getting to the customs booth.  Usually you went through in just a few seconds, sometimes without needing to show ID.  Just state your citizenship and where you were headed, and if you had anything to declare.  There was only one time crossing from Port Huron to Sarnia where we had any hassle, and that was probably because we were just taking a sight-seeing trip along the east side of the St Clair River and Lake St. Clair and would re-enter the US at Windsor - that route didn't make any sense timewise.  And if you were profiled some way as being a drug runner, you could expect additional scrutiny.

Yes, each person typically spends only a few seconds answering questions.  However the wait for your turn could easily be hours before the pandemic.  We had to wait over five hours to enter the U.S. at Peace Arch one day.

[kphoger]

For what it's worth, my post-9/11 trip into Canada is described below.

Other than a fuzzy childhood memory or two, I've only driven across the Canadian border once.  This was in the summer of 2002 or 2003, I believe, and we crossed at the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit.  It was me, two coworkers, and the wife of one of them.  We crossed into Canada after dark; the border official on the bridge asked from out the darkness, 'Where ya headed?' – 'Rondeau Park.' – 'Go ahead!'  On the return trip, the American official on the bridge took our passports, asked how we knew each other and why we were travelling together, what we'd been doing, then let us through.

I've only been to Canada once since I was a little kid–2002 or so.  We crossed from Detroit to Windsor on the Ambassador Bridge after dark one evening.  The guy in the booth asked, Where you headed?  We said Rondeau Park, and his reply was All right! and to wave us ahead.  That's it.  On the return trip into Detroit, they looked at all our ID, asked how we knew each other, etc.  Still no big deal, but definitely more than a hand-wave.