Major I-70 Closure in Colorado

Started by thenetwork, August 15, 2020, 10:33:09 AM

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thenetwork

For those planning to travel I-70 west of Denver in the near future, a wildfire in Glenwood Canyon has shut down the interstate and pretty much all travel routes between Vail and Glenwood Springs.

The fire started earlier in the week and is still 0% contained.  The interstate will likely remain shut down well into next week.

More details in the Mountain West section.


thenetwork

#1
Bumping this thread on the National Board for the benefit of those who were planning to use I-70 in Western Colorado this summer, and possibly beyond...

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/i-70-through-glenwood-canyon-to-remain-closed-due-to-extreme-damage

As of Sunday Evening, CDOT now says officially I-70 thru Glenwood Canyon will be closed INDEFINITELY.

From what I have heard,  CDOT has suspended the major construction project on US‐50 (The southern I-70 detour) which had the road closed most weekdays on a stretch between Montrose and Gunnison.  This is expected to stay open until the Glenwood Canyon problems are resolved, which COULD be months away.

Not sure how "rough" US-50 is within the halted project, as they tend to take the road down to a hard dirt/gravel surface when they rebuild the road.  My work will take me.along part of the US-40 part of the primary detour and Tuesday will hopefully allow me to use the "limited vehicle" CO-82 detour via Aspen.

hbelkins

Great. My brother and I are scheduled to come home from our western trip via I-70. We missed Glenwood Canyon on our Amtrak trip a couple of years ago due to a long delay, so it ended up being after dark when the train went through there instead of during the daylight.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

thspfc

What is CODOT's recommended detour? I'm guessing they're allowing traffic all the way until CO-82 at Glenwood Springs? In that case it would be CO-82 down to US-24 at Leadville, then back up to Copper Mountain on CO-91.

Because there is so much long-distance traffic on I-70 through the Colorado Rockies, this will increase traffic volumes on I-40 from California to Oklahoma, and I-80 across Wyoming as well. Shouldn't be a problem though as I-80 in Wyoming is empty, and I presume I-40 in CA, AZ, NM, TX, and OK is also.

thspfc

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2021, 09:09:21 PM
Great. My brother and I are scheduled to come home from our western trip via I-70. We missed Glenwood Canyon on our Amtrak trip a couple of years ago due to a long delay, so it ended up being after dark when the train went through there instead of during the daylight.
Might be an opportunity to drive some of the "backroads"  of Colorado, for example the Million Dollar Highway. Then you could take US-50 and US-285 from Montrose to the Denver area.

roadman65

Don't know which is worse. US 101 on Last Chance Grade or this.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

thenetwork

#6
Quote from: thspfc on August 01, 2021, 09:58:45 PM
What is CODOT's recommended detour? I'm guessing they're allowing traffic all the way until CO-82 at Glenwood Springs? In that case it would be CO-82 down to US-24 at Leadville, then back up to Copper Mountain on CO-91.


Because there is so much long-distance traffic on I-70 through the Colorado Rockies, this will increase traffic volumes on I-40 from California to Oklahoma, and I-80 across Wyoming as well. Shouldn't be a problem though as I-80 in Wyoming is empty, and I presume I-40 in CA, AZ, NM, TX, and OK is also.

CO-82 over Independence Pass can only be traversed by autos and other vehicles under 30-some feet -- Semis, RVs and many trailered vehicles are prohibited and could be ticketed for over $1000 bucks if they try to go eastbound beyond Aspen for example.

They've been forcing all I-70 EB traffic off of Exit 87/US-6 and traffic bound for beyond Glenwood are turned onto CO-13 at the Rifle Bypass (Main Street was still closed thru downtown Rifle for reconstruction).  Then its CO-13 north to Craig, US-40 east to Kremling, then CO-9 to I-70 at Silverthorne.

Glenwood/Aspen traffic can re-enter I-70 at Exit 90 or further east, but then are forced off again at Exit 116/CO-82 in Glenwood.

If you wish for limited construction zones, US-550 (Million Dollar Highway)  from.Montrose to Durango, then US-160 east to US-285 or I-25 is a real nice drive, if you have the extra time.

Back to Glenwood...CDOT just replaced all the signs in the Canyon a few weeks ago!!

hbelkins

As for our trip, we're going to be in the Monument Valley area, and I'm not sure how my brother was planning to get to I-70, except I don't think he was looking at the Million Dollar Highway since we were on it 30 years ago. My guess is that if I-70 is still closed, we'll use some diagonal route southeast to I-40 and then take I-44 to St. Louis. With the exception of seeing Glenwood Canyon, I think everything beyond Monument Valley/Moki Dugway was going to be "get home as fast as we can" mode.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

thenetwork

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2021, 10:51:46 PM
As for our trip, we're going to be in the Monument Valley area, and I'm not sure how my brother was planning to get to I-70, except I don't think he was looking at the Million Dollar Highway since we were on it 30 years ago. My guess is that if I-70 is still closed, we'll use some diagonal route southeast to I-40 and then take I-44 to St. Louis. With the exception of seeing Glenwood Canyon, I think everything beyond Monument Valley/Moki Dugway was going to be "get home as fast as we can" mode.

In that case, I'd recommend US-160 East out of 4-Corners.  The drive out of Cortez is decent.  160 is mostly 2-lanes, but they are pretty generous with regular climbing/passing lanes.

hbelkins

Quote from: thenetwork on August 01, 2021, 10:59:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2021, 10:51:46 PM
As for our trip, we're going to be in the Monument Valley area, and I'm not sure how my brother was planning to get to I-70, except I don't think he was looking at the Million Dollar Highway since we were on it 30 years ago. My guess is that if I-70 is still closed, we'll use some diagonal route southeast to I-40 and then take I-44 to St. Louis. With the exception of seeing Glenwood Canyon, I think everything beyond Monument Valley/Moki Dugway was going to be "get home as fast as we can" mode.

In that case, I'd recommend US-160 East out of 4-Corners.  The drive out of Cortez is decent.  160 is mostly 2-lanes, but they are pretty generous with regular climbing/passing lanes.

I still have fantasies about driving US 160 end-to-end, so I wouldn't really encourage that route. I'm figuring Google/Waze will probably tell us to take US 550. Will elaborate more in my "Montana" thread on the Road Trips board.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

thenetwork

The latest word is here:  https://kdvr.com/news/local/gov-polis-update-on-i-70-damage-through-glenwood-canyon/

While the much-needed monsoons continue, CDOT is limited on clean up efforts due to additional potential mudslides and debris flows.

That being said, it's looking more and more probable the I-70 will remain closed for weeks...or months until they can really examine roadway and bridge damages and do enough repairs to reopen at least one lane in each direction.

What makes this such a historic situation is that the detours are in the HUNDREDS of miles, unlike the Cincinnati Brent Spence and Memphis I-40 problems from earlier in the year -- at least their detours only added a few miles and maybe up to an hour in delays.

Bruce

So it looks like the mudslide was caused by heavy rainfall in a burn scar zone...definitely should have seen that coming with last year's wildfire season. Climate change is going to make this much worse.

kphoger

Perhaps so, but aren't wildfires and monsoon rains also just a normal part of nature?  This is the sort of thing that was bound to happen at some point–climate change or no climate change.  It comes with building infrastructure in forested, mountainous areas.

What could they really have done to prevent such damage?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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Male pronouns, please.

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Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on August 03, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Perhaps so, but aren't wildfires and monsoon rains also just a normal part of nature?  This is the sort of thing that was bound to happen at some point–climate change or no climate change.  It comes with building infrastructure in forested, mountainous areas.

Yes and no–while yes, this always could have happened, the more wildfires and the more monsoon rains you get, the greater the probability of them both striking the same area. Law of Large Numbers and all that. Same reason you see 100-year floods so often anymore. Used to be that the probability of one of them happening in a given year was 1/100–flooding events that big have always happened periodically–but now, because of climate change, you are seeing them happen more frequently than is natural.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

US 89

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 03, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: kphoger on August 03, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Perhaps so, but aren't wildfires and monsoon rains also just a normal part of nature?  This is the sort of thing that was bound to happen at some point–climate change or no climate change.  It comes with building infrastructure in forested, mountainous areas.

Yes and no–while yes, this always could have happened, the more wildfires and the more monsoon rains you get, the greater the probability of them both striking the same area. Law of Large Numbers and all that. Same reason you see 100-year floods so often anymore. Used to be that the probability of one of them happening in a given year was 1/100–flooding events that big have always happened periodically–but now, because of climate change, you are seeing them happen more frequently than is natural.

I hesitate to relate an event like this to climate change. I believe it's fairly well shown that climate change should lead to an increase in western wildfires, but the southwest monsoon is not very well understood and is so highly variable from year to year that you can't really establish a connection. This is the strongest monsoon in at least 6 years - last year it largely failed to show up and we had people saying climate change was killing the monsoon. Just goes to show you single events or even single years have no bearing on whether or not climate change is occurring. Of course it is, but we know that by looking at changes in temperatures and precip over long time scales at multiple sites across the globe so that individual events and localized effects can be averaged out.

I'm also not a fan of using climate change as a scapegoat for stuff like this because it gets used as a way to deflect responsibility and isn't really a productive way to prevent more similar disasters from occurring in the future. While climate change may have made vegetation/surrounding conditions more susceptible to wildfires in this case, the fire itself was human caused - directly ignited by somebody on the interstate. Instead of spending all our time only worrying about global CO2 emissions, why not go after the direct source of the problem and get intense public messaging campaigns out about fire-safe practices? Even actively working to combat climate change isn't going to stop fires if the freeways are still full of people dragging chains and throwing cigarette butts out their windows.

HighwayStar

I will add to what others have hinted at.
The mainstream media, likes to attribute everything to climate change then ridicule anyone who disagrees with that as "not following the science."

Even climate scientists however will stop well short of that, saying that it only affects the probability distribution of such events. To say that climate change caused X is a lie, and no organization that uses that terminology should be taken seriously.

Moreover, even changes in the probability distribution are far from precise as to their impact or meaning. I love when they talk of a "1000 year flood" in an area that has not had records kept for more than perhaps 150 years. Truthfully, all we can really say is if something is widely out of expectation for the last 100 years or so, and even that ignores the fact that broader swings, like the little ice age, etc. have happened which would throw off your estimates.

Another issue, particularly with constant alarmism over every time a new record is set, is that even in the absence of change you would expect new records to be set every year by the nature of drawing a random outcome from an unknown distribution.

As for Colorado, I suspect a major factor in the Glenwood Canyon incident is the fact that it was engineered to be minimally impactful on the environment. That comes at a trade off however, and I suspect that was part of the issue.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

zzcarp

CDOT released this drone footage of the major slide area and its uphill watershed (slideshed?).

https://youtu.be/AassP3OXgb0

It appears it could be small enough where they could build a viaduct over the slide area in time. CDOT's also going to cut a pilot channel in the debris field in the river to get it flowing properly.

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 03, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: kphoger on August 03, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Perhaps so, but aren't wildfires and monsoon rains also just a normal part of nature?  This is the sort of thing that was bound to happen at some point–climate change or no climate change.  It comes with building infrastructure in forested, mountainous areas.

Yes and no–while yes, this always could have happened, the more wildfires and the more monsoon rains you get, the greater the probability of them both striking the same area. Law of Large Numbers and all that. Same reason you see 100-year floods so often anymore. Used to be that the probability of one of them happening in a given year was 1/100–flooding events that big have always happened periodically–but now, because of climate change, you are seeing them happen more frequently than is natural.

Climate change could influence some hydrologic changes on the margins, and it's not the only factor. Changes in probability about what the 100-year storm flows are have a variety of inputs. These are updated periodically with new studies and rainfall totals as well as changing modeling. The mountains also produce variable microclimates where a specific spot could get drenched and another remains relatively dry. Even the fires, which happened in drought conditions last summer, will be more frequent due to the forests of dead pines killed by the beetles.
So many miles and so many roads

HighwayStar

And my suspicion proved correct, the failure occurred over a portion built in that ridiculous double deck configuration.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

hbelkins

Isn't global warming climate change responsible for both El Nino and La Nina?

In that drone video, I saw a decent amount of green vegetation, as well as still-standing trees that probably still have intact root systems. Not sure that the fires are to blame for the resulting slide that occurred after heavy rain. It just may have been a freak gullywasher. We've had a few of those in Kentucky in the past few years. A storm sat still and rained very hard for a decent amount of time in one valley ("holler") and only one area really got impacted. About 11 years ago it happened on one creek in Pike County, and then a few years later one valley in Johnson County. No other areas of those counties were affected. Just a couple of isolated little locations.

Quote from: HighwayStar on August 03, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
And my suspicion proved correct, the failure occurred over a portion built in that ridiculous double deck configuration.

What's ridiculous about it?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

oscar

Quote from: hbelkins on August 03, 2021, 07:51:46 PM
Isn't global warming climate change responsible for both El Nino and La Nina?

Both El Niño and La Niña are regular Pacific meteorological events, which happened long before (but may be affected by) recent climate trends. They were often talked about as early as the late 1960s/early 1970s, when I lived in the San Diego area.

Quote from: HighwayStar on August 03, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
And my suspicion proved correct, the failure occurred over a portion built in that ridiculous double deck configuration.

HighwayStar, how else would you have squeezed into the narrow Glenwood Canyon (a) four lanes of I-70, (b) two-lane US 6 (the old road through the canyon), (c) a busy rail line, and (d) the Colorado River, a scenic and well-used waterway through the canyon?
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zzcarp

Shh. Don't tell anyone about the secret unsafe shortcut around the closure.

Quote"When the canyon is closed, we'll see more traffic in a day than we do in a summertime," said John Harris, the Eagle County Roads and Bridges director. "Then we take it off of Google Maps and Apple Maps, and as you can tell, there's a lot of people that [still] find it."

They've done a good job on Waze, Google Maps, and AAA maps of not allowing you to choose a shorter detour. You can't even force a route over Cottonwood or Independence Passes without Waze forcing you back south to US 50 away from Glenwood Springs. They've blocked those routes by saying you can't access I-70 west from Glenwood which seems to be erroneous (another Noble Lie, perhaps).

QuoteSafety is the main concern for Eagle County, which is why they have crews stopping traffic for one-way metering in the steepest, one-lane section of the road, called Blue Hill, during peak traffic times. Meanwhile, crews have set up 24/7 checkpoints on the road to keep off commercial traffic and trucks.

Eagle County has been making improvements to mark the edges of the road and strengthen the surface, but it would cost at least $50 million to widen and pave the road for year-round traffic.

But they have seen roll-offs, accidents and even drivers stopping in the middle of the road because they're too scared to continue.

That seems insane that people would stop because of being afraid to proceed. It's a narrow mountain road but in relatively good shape and doesn't require special skills or even four-wheel drive. That said, best to keep the fearful flatlanders away from the local detour route.

And if it's "only" $50 million to widen and pave the road, the state should take over the route and improve it soon. The Colorado legislature passed a gas tax increase fee this session, and the bonding from that measure should be used for that purpose.
So many miles and so many roads

Brian556

Food for thought and debate...I don't think this is too far fetched...What if it was determined that it was no longer practical or possible to keep I-70 open through Glenwood Canyon...What would happen then? I was reading a local newspaper article from the area https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/western_colorado/making-cottonwood-pass-more-passable-unofficial-i-70-detour-eyed-for-improvements/article_941b3254-efc9-11eb-bcba-7351862610a9.html, and it stated that some drivers were using Cottonwood Pass, which is on low-quality county roads that are only one lane wide at some points. This article states that CDOT considered routing I-70 over Cottonwood Pass rather than thro Glenwood Canyon.

thenetwork

Quote from: zzcarp on August 03, 2021, 09:51:34 PM
Shh. Don't tell anyone about the secret unsafe shortcut around the closure.

Quote"When the canyon is closed, we'll see more traffic in a day than we do in a summertime," said John Harris, the Eagle County Roads and Bridges director. "Then we take it off of Google Maps and Apple Maps, and as you can tell, there's a lot of people that [still] find it."

They've done a good job on Waze, Google Maps, and AAA maps of not allowing you to choose a shorter detour. You can't even force a route over Cottonwood or Independence Passes without Waze forcing you back south to US 50 away from Glenwood Springs. They've blocked those routes by saying you can't access I-70 west from Glenwood which seems to be erroneous (another Noble Lie, perhaps).

I started my workday today in Avon, CO with a stop in Vail.  From there, I took I-70 East to CO-91 over Fremont Pass, then US-24 east thru Leadville to CO-82  (from Vail, both the Waze and Google Maps wanted me to take Cottonwood Pass).

A lot of traffic on CO-82 (and a lot of out of state morons who think doing 30 MPH around switchbacks and one lane sections is waay too slow) going over Independence Pass and thru Aspen.

Both apps wanted me to use the CO-133/CO-92/US-50 combo to Grand Junction but I couldn't find any reason why I couldn't just go the entire CO-82 stretch to I-70.  Once on I-70 West, the apps did not acknowledge the freeway being open until I got past the West Glenwood exit.

I did stop off in Rifle and the city there temporarily opened up Main Street (old CO-13 alignment) thru downtown, which was being rebuilt, to relieve some traffic snarls.

After driving both the northern detour and the southern CO-82 alternate route this week I would highly recommend the northern detour via CO-13 (or CO-139), US-40, CO-9 hands down.


zzcarp

Quote from: Brian556 on August 03, 2021, 09:58:47 PM
Food for thought and debate...I don't think this is too far fetched...What if it was determined that it was no longer practical or possible to keep I-70 open through Glenwood Canyon...What would happen then? I was reading a local newspaper article from the area https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/western_colorado/making-cottonwood-pass-more-passable-unofficial-i-70-detour-eyed-for-improvements/article_941b3254-efc9-11eb-bcba-7351862610a9.html, and it stated that some drivers were using Cottonwood Pass, which is on low-quality county roads that are only one lane wide at some points. This article states that CDOT considered routing I-70 over Cottonwood Pass rather than thro Glenwood Canyon.

I found a link provided by Elm on the main Colorado thread for an early study on I-70 through Glenwood Canyon:

Quote from: Elm on January 14, 2021, 04:04:49 PM
A Design Concept for Interstate 70, Glenwood Canyon, Colorado (1974)
not the design that happened, but one with separate car/truck roadways; also has a concept image of the disfavored "rim alternative"  high viaduct (pg 43/PDF page 45)

Per the study, the reason the "rim alternative" wasn't used is that 1974 CDOH believed 60 percent of the traffic would continue taking the scenic canyon floor route in lieu of the faster rim route.

I found some other studies from using a link at that post regarding the location choice and design of I-70 through the canyon. I haven't and likely won't have time to read the studies for information tonight, though as an engineer they look quite interesting and may answer some of our design and alignment questions. The studies are linked below:

INTERSTATE 70 GLENWOOD CANYON DESIGN CONCEPT STUDY (June 1974)
FINAL SUPPLEMENTAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT GLENWOOD CANYON I-70 PROJECT (June 1982)
THE ROLE OF RESEARCH IN THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF I-70 THROUGH GLENWOOD CANYON  (January 1985)
GEOTHERMAL HEATING OF BRIDGES IN GLENWOOD CANYON (June 1985)
So many miles and so many roads

HighwayStar

Quote from: oscar on August 03, 2021, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 03, 2021, 07:51:46 PM
Isn't global warming climate change responsible for both El Nino and La Nina?

Both El Niño and La Niña are regular Pacific meteorological events, which happened long before (but may be affected by) recent climate trends. They were often talked about as early as the late 1960s/early 1970s, when I lived in the San Diego area.

Quote from: HighwayStar on August 03, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
And my suspicion proved correct, the failure occurred over a portion built in that ridiculous double deck configuration.

HighwayStar, how else would you have squeezed into the narrow Glenwood Canyon (a) four lanes of I-70, (b) two-lane US 6 (the old road through the canyon), (c) a busy rail line, and (d) the Colorado River, a scenic and well-used waterway through the canyon?

Seen many narrow canyons in the west where they fit a highway in. Re-routing the river in places might have been desirable, as was done on I-15 in Montana in places.
With enough ANFO, off highway trucks, and electric shovels you could have cut a right of way wide enough to meet the needs.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well



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