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[jeffandnicole]

Unfortunately for all of us, transponder discrimination is an easy way for toll facility operators to bring in higher revenues without ruffling a lot of feathers. Plenty of people don't even pay attention to how much it costs, just that their EZPass deducted the toll properly. I wish the IAG had put stronger wording into the compacts to prohibit this behavior but this is now a fact of life. Basically every state does it. If the PTC isn't doing it already, they likely will at some point.

The basic purpose of the IAG was to get several states to cooperate and accept one method of payment across several different tolling agencies.  In government, this is a near impossibility.  Being worried about transponder discrimination was not on their minds at the time. Remember, I think it was Florida in the 1990s had several different non-compatible electronic tolling systems within its own state before they developed SunPass. 

While we look at transponder discrimination as a bad thing, it's nothing more than a discount one gets for being a paid member of a club.  If they eliminated transponder discrimination, they would either boost they lowest tolls up to the highest tolls, or determine what the mean toll would be based on all the motorists that normally travel through.  They're not going to lower the tolls for everyone down to the lowest tolls available.

Ending transponder discrimination would mostly piss off the locals - the ones that vote and use the roads the most.  And since members of the IAG ultimately answer to the politicians of the member states, guess what's not gonna happen anytime soon...

[tckma]

Don't NJ transponders charge $1/month? That's why I went straight to NY Thruway.

That's right, and that's cheaper than the $3/month the PTC charges.

[MASTERNC]

Don't NJ transponders charge $1/month? That's why I went straight to NY Thruway.

That's right, and that's cheaper than the $3/month the PTC charges.

It's actually $0.25/month ($3/year) but it's still higher than zero.

[tckma]

Don't NJ transponders charge $1/month? That's why I went straight to NY Thruway.

That's right, and that's cheaper than the $3/month the PTC charges.

It's actually $0.25/month ($3/year) but it's still higher than zero.

Hmmm.  I may switch to a PTC-issued transponder, then.  I'm not using DRPA bridges enough for the commuter discount.  BUT, I use the NJ Turnpike occasionally during off-peak hours, so... *shrug*

[ARMOURERERIC]

Any visible progress on the Beaver River bridge project?

[ARMOURERERIC]

Should we be seeing a new annual budget/capital plan coming out?

[MASTERNC]

Should we be seeing a new annual budget/capital plan coming out?

Normally comes in the next month or two, along with the annual toll increase announcement

[MASTERNC]

The PTC now has a website detailing the Open Road Tolling conversion.  Contrary to what might have been communicated before, it won't be turned on in the eastern part of the state until 2025 (instead of 2024), which is only one year earlier than the western part.

You can see the location of gantries, but only in the eastern part of the state for now.

They also note rates still use "revenue requirements" from the 1940s & 1950s, depending on the segment driven.  Going forward, rates will be uniform on a per-mile basis.  Guess it's possible some rates may decrease and others may increase.

https://www.paturnpike.com/all-electronic-tolling/open-road-tolling

[jeffandnicole]

The PTC now has a website detailing the Open Road Tolling conversion.  Contrary to what might have been communicated before, it won't be turned on in the eastern part of the state until 2025 (instead of 2024), which is only one year earlier than the western part.

You can see the location of gantries, but only in the eastern part of the state for now.

They also note rates still use "revenue requirements" from the 1940s & 1950s, depending on the segment driven.  Going forward, rates will be uniform on a per-mile basis.  Guess it's possible some rates may decrease and others may increase.

https://www.paturnpike.com/all-electronic-tolling/open-road-tolling

Well, looks to be about 1.5 to 2 years earlier than the western part of the state, per that article.  And given the PA Turnpike's fondness for timeliness (or lack thereof), I imagine this may be a few more years off...

Open Road Tolling will begin in 2025 in the eastern part of the state. Specifically, east of Reading and on the Northeastern Extension. It will expand to the western region of the PA Turnpike beginning in late 2026. 

[Mr_Northside]

Assuming I'm remembering accurately, that's kind of how EZ-Pass was originally rolled out as well.... it was available in the eastern part of the state a decent bit before we could start using it here in the western half of the state.

Also of note, technically, there is now a new ORT gantry in this half of the state.   They've put one up that will replace the Warrendale hybrid-ORT/traditional-plaza-lanes toll plaza (labeled MP31)

https://goo.gl/maps/4PR5rU1KYNZvswzr8

Based on the PTC traffic cameras available on PennDOT's 511 site - https://www.511pa.com/ - it still isn't operational yet (the cover on the sign approaching it is half blown off last I checked) - The Warrendale plaza is currently acting as ORT until they switch and demolish it. 
Of course, that plaza (and it's pending replacement) is the western end of the "ticket" system.  Not sure if they'll re-toll west of there to Ohio - if they state that the rates will be uniform on a per-mile basis, I'd have to think it's at least a strong possibility they'll slap some gantries up between Cranberry & Ohio in between those interchanges.

[vdeane]

That would be an interesting plot twist.  Currently, it's best to clinch I-76 heading WB because of the EB-only PA border toll.  When OH switches their tolling around, they will have a WB-only border toll, so that will make things even.  But if PA abandons the border toll in favor of a uniform per-mile rate, then this will flip the script and make it better to clinch in the EB direction.

[MASTERNC]

Assuming I'm remembering accurately, that's kind of how EZ-Pass was originally rolled out as well.... it was available in the eastern part of the state a decent bit before we could start using it here in the western half of the state.

Also of note, technically, there is now a new ORT gantry in this half of the state.   They've put one up that will replace the Warrendale hybrid-ORT/traditional-plaza-lanes toll plaza (labeled MP31)

https://goo.gl/maps/4PR5rU1KYNZvswzr8

Based on the PTC traffic cameras available on PennDOT's 511 site - https://www.511pa.com/ - it still isn't operational yet (the cover on the sign approaching it is half blown off last I checked) - The Warrendale plaza is currently acting as ORT until they switch and demolish it. 
Of course, that plaza (and it's pending replacement) is the western end of the "ticket" system.  Not sure if they'll re-toll west of there to Ohio - if they state that the rates will be uniform on a per-mile basis, I'd have to think it's at least a strong possibility they'll slap some gantries up between Cranberry & Ohio in between those interchanges.

I personally doubt they'll revert on the western section - Ohio is going the same way with moving its mainline tolls further in from the border and creating "free" interchanges

[Bitmapped]

Assuming I'm remembering accurately, that's kind of how EZ-Pass was originally rolled out as well.... it was available in the eastern part of the state a decent bit before we could start using it here in the western half of the state.

Also of note, technically, there is now a new ORT gantry in this half of the state.   They've put one up that will replace the Warrendale hybrid-ORT/traditional-plaza-lanes toll plaza (labeled MP31)

https://goo.gl/maps/4PR5rU1KYNZvswzr8

Based on the PTC traffic cameras available on PennDOT's 511 site - https://www.511pa.com/ - it still isn't operational yet (the cover on the sign approaching it is half blown off last I checked) - The Warrendale plaza is currently acting as ORT until they switch and demolish it. 
Of course, that plaza (and it's pending replacement) is the western end of the "ticket" system.  Not sure if they'll re-toll west of there to Ohio - if they state that the rates will be uniform on a per-mile basis, I'd have to think it's at least a strong possibility they'll slap some gantries up between Cranberry & Ohio in between those interchanges.

I personally doubt they'll revert on the western section - Ohio is going the same way with moving its mainline tolls further in from the border and creating "free" interchanges

The Southern Beltway is AET and now has several free movement sections since there are just 3 mainline tolling points rather than tolling points between every ramp. With that in mind, I can see PTC keeping the free section on the western end of the turnpike. That being said, as a fairness measure, I wish they'd bring back tolling along the western section and charge per-mile because the eastbound toll coming in the state really wallops people who are just going to I-376 versus the whole way to Warrendale.

[MASTERNC]

They are correct about the unequal toll rates.  The rates in the Philly area are much higher on a per-mile basis.  Not sure if this is deliberate (like the NJ Turnpike near NYC) or if it was just based on the revenue projections at the time each section was opened, like they said.

The E-ZPass toll from New Stanton to Breezewood is $12.10, which comes out to about 14 cents/mile.  However, the toll from Valley Forge to Bensalem is $5.40, or about 21.6 cents/mile.  If the rates were equal (say using the 14 cent/mile rate), the Valley Forge-Bensalem toll would be about $3.60, or $1.80 less.  Of course, everything depends on the per-mile rate the PTC settles on.

[famartin]

They are correct about the unequal toll rates.  The rates in the Philly area are much higher on a per-mile basis.  Not sure if this is deliberate (like the NJ Turnpike near NYC) or if it was just based on the revenue projections at the time each section was opened, like they said.

Its obviously not on a service quality basis, that's for sure, since Philly area service is overall the worst in the system.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Should we be seeing a new annual budget/capital plan coming out?

Normally comes in the next month or two, along with the annual toll increase announcement

It appears that one may have come out last Friday.  I see a lot of expenditure for Pittsburgh to Irwin with Pittsburgh to Allegheny Valley secondary.  See lots of design work for Cranberry, Rt 8.

[Gnutella]

Should we be seeing a new annual budget/capital plan coming out?

Normally comes in the next month or two, along with the annual toll increase announcement

It appears that one may have come out last Friday.  I see a lot of expenditure for Pittsburgh to Irwin with Pittsburgh to Allegheny Valley secondary.  See lots of design work for Cranberry, Rt 8.

I'm glad that segment near PA 8/Exit 39 is finally getting considered.

[tckma]

Also of note, technically, there is now a new ORT gantry in this half of the state.   They've put one up that will replace the Warrendale hybrid-ORT/traditional-plaza-lanes toll plaza (labeled MP31)

I've noticed the PTC has been constructing little house-like structures along the Turnpike and Northeast Extension in this part of the state.  I assume they are going to be shielding equipment for ORT gantries.

[tckma]

They are correct about the unequal toll rates.  The rates in the Philly area are much higher on a per-mile basis.  Not sure if this is deliberate (like the NJ Turnpike near NYC) or if it was just based on the revenue projections at the time each section was opened, like they said.

The E-ZPass toll from New Stanton to Breezewood is $12.10, which comes out to about 14 cents/mile.  However, the toll from Valley Forge to Bensalem is $5.40, or about 21.6 cents/mile.  If the rates were equal (say using the 14 cent/mile rate), the Valley Forge-Bensalem toll would be about $3.60, or $1.80 less.  Of course, everything depends on the per-mile rate the PTC settles on.

Given that Act Eleventy-Seven or whatever it is mandates PA Turnpike tolls mostly go to fund SEPTA, it kind of makes sense.  I know if I lived in the Pittsburgh area, I'd be annoyed that tolls were going to fund transit at the opposite end of the state.  Honestly, though, given the amount of non-locals using the Turnpike, the SEPTA payments make even less sense, but I digress.

[jeffandnicole]

They are correct about the unequal toll rates.  The rates in the Philly area are much higher on a per-mile basis.  Not sure if this is deliberate (like the NJ Turnpike near NYC) or if it was just based on the revenue projections at the time each section was opened, like they said.

The E-ZPass toll from New Stanton to Breezewood is $12.10, which comes out to about 14 cents/mile.  However, the toll from Valley Forge to Bensalem is $5.40, or about 21.6 cents/mile.  If the rates were equal (say using the 14 cent/mile rate), the Valley Forge-Bensalem toll would be about $3.60, or $1.80 less.  Of course, everything depends on the per-mile rate the PTC settles on.

Given that Act Eleventy-Seven or whatever it is mandates PA Turnpike tolls mostly go to fund SEPTA, it kind of makes sense.  I know if I lived in the Pittsburgh area, I'd be annoyed that tolls were going to fund transit at the opposite end of the state.  Honestly, though, given the amount of non-locals using the Turnpike, the SEPTA payments make even less sense, but I digress.

Acts 44/89.

PA Turnpike tolls funded mass transit throughout the state, not just SEPTA. How was that money truly divided up though?  A quick Google search didn't reveal the answer.  The PTC gave the money to PennDOT; they administrated the money to the transit agencies.

[kalvado]

They are correct about the unequal toll rates.  The rates in the Philly area are much higher on a per-mile basis.  Not sure if this is deliberate (like the NJ Turnpike near NYC) or if it was just based on the revenue projections at the time each section was opened, like they said.

The E-ZPass toll from New Stanton to Breezewood is $12.10, which comes out to about 14 cents/mile.  However, the toll from Valley Forge to Bensalem is $5.40, or about 21.6 cents/mile.  If the rates were equal (say using the 14 cent/mile rate), the Valley Forge-Bensalem toll would be about $3.60, or $1.80 less.  Of course, everything depends on the per-mile rate the PTC settles on.

Given that Act Eleventy-Seven or whatever it is mandates PA Turnpike tolls mostly go to fund SEPTA, it kind of makes sense.  I know if I lived in the Pittsburgh area, I'd be annoyed that tolls were going to fund transit at the opposite end of the state.  Honestly, though, given the amount of non-locals using the Turnpike, the SEPTA payments make even less sense, but I digress.

Acts 44/89.

PA Turnpike tolls funded mass transit throughout the state, not just SEPTA. How was that money truly divided up though?  A quick Google search didn't reveal the answer.  The PTC gave the money to PennDOT; they administrated the money to the transit agencies.

Maybe not the full data, but:
SEPTA: Act 44 Operating Assistance Section 1513 Allocation: $714,416,750
Port Authority of Allegheny county: Act 44 Operating Assistance Section 1513 Allocation: $244,850,155
South Central Transit Authority $17M
Lehigh and Northampton Transportation Authority $19M

Up to $7M  for 31 other agency


https://www.penndot.pa.gov/Doing-Business/Transit/InformationandReports/Documents/BPT%20Annual%20Report%202020-21.pdf

[74/171FAN]

(For US 422)  PennDOT - District 6 News: Bridge Construction Planned Wednesday on U.S. 422, N. Gulph Road in Tredyffrin, Upper Merion Townships

[MASTERNC]

In the eastern part of the state, the equipment buildings and supports for the ORT gantries are up.  One already had "Stay in Lane" signage up near the gantry (but no solid pavement markings) while the next one had solid pavement markings up to the gantry (but no signage), despite the gantries being about two years away from even being used.

[jeffandnicole]

In the eastern part of the state, the equipment buildings and supports for the ORT gantries are up.  One already had "Stay in Lane" signage up near the gantry (but no solid pavement markings) while the next one had solid pavement markings up to the gantry (but no signage), despite the gantries being about two years away from even being used.

No reason they should even be using solid lines at ORT gantries. Just have one reader over each lane, and a reader over the skip lines and shoulders.

[vdeane]

It's probably easier to detect vehicle class if people aren't changing lanes.  Plus they aren't infallible.  I got charged twice on the Thruway for the same gantry in the same trip once.  I think it might have sent the bill for the car in front of me to my account.  I try to leave extra space in front of me when going under toll gantries now for that reason.