New Interstate 885 in Durham

[sprjus4]

I think I still like alternative 1 the best, even though it has more impacts and is a true freeway design.

How is Alternative 2 -not- a true freeway design?

Cause of this ramp! Unless you're talking about the original alternative 2 and not the modified one.

I was referring to the original design which would not include any interchange at T.W. Alexander Dr and a trumpet at Aviation Pkwy extended. I was not aware of this third "modified" alternative.

It appears that the NCDOT Preferred Alternative is this new modified alternative with a diverging diamond at Aviation Pkwy extended and a folded diamond at T.W. Alexander Dr... I would still personally prefer the original Alternative 2 though this works as well.

The RIRO ramp design does not downgrade it from being a freeway... US-70 would still have full control of access in the vicinity of that area, mainline traffic would not interrupted due to a traffic signal or crossover traffic, and the ramps would still have adequate acceleration and deceleration lanes.

Do these examples of RIRO ramp designs downgrade these facilities from being freeways?
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4994107,-77.6847548,817m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5211838,-77.6923519,817m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4921612,-77.5648316,515m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4424167,-77.4504909,546m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5446537,-79.4415218,293m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1 (debatable, the ramps are much tighter than other examples and I believe VDOT has stated they will designate this portion "I-785" until a full interchange with an overpass bridge is constructed here - still VDOT posts 65 mph on this segment which is only permitted on limited access highways per state law)

[tolbs17]

I think I still like alternative 1 the best, even though it has more impacts and is a true freeway design.

How is Alternative 2 -not- a true freeway design?

Cause of this ramp! Unless you're talking about the original alternative 2 and not the modified one.

I was referring to the original design which would not include any interchange at T.W. Alexander Dr and a trumpet at Aviation Pkwy extended. I was not aware of this third "modified" alternative.

It appears that the NCDOT Preferred Alternative is this new modified alternative with a diverging diamond at Aviation Pkwy extended and a folded diamond at T.W. Alexander Dr... I would still personally prefer the original Alternative 2 though this works as well.

The RIRO ramp design does not downgrade it from being a freeway... US-70 would still have full control of access in the vicinity of that area, mainline traffic would not interrupted due to a traffic signal or crossover traffic, and the ramps would still have adequate acceleration and deceleration lanes.

Do these examples of RIRO ramp designs downgrade these facilities from being freeways?
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4994107,-77.6847548,817m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5211838,-77.6923519,817m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4921612,-77.5648316,515m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4424167,-77.4504909,546m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5446537,-79.4415218,293m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1 (debatable, the ramps are much tighter than other examples and I believe VDOT has stated they will designate this portion "I-785" until a full interchange with an overpass bridge is constructed here - still VDOT posts 65 mph on this segment which is only permitted on limited access highways per state law)

All those documents, except for the last one are not as tight as the alternative 2 "modified" one. Idc if they go into a shopping center, the modified one just has very sharp ramps.

[sprjus4]

All those documents, except for the last one are not as tight as the alternative 2 "modified" one. Idc if they go into a shopping center, the modified one just has very sharp ramps.

... But it's still a true freeway design nonetheless.

The ramps will probably be signed at 20 or 25 mph when completed and have ample acceleration / deceleration lanes from mainline US-70.

[sprjus4]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

[tolbs17]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

Definitely a lot longer compared to the southwest bypass.

[sprjus4]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

Definitely a lot longer compared to the southwest bypass.

Kind of hard to compare this project to a standard rural freeway project in Eastern North Carolina.

[LM117]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

This is ridiculous. Construction started in 2015, and by the time this opens, it would've taken over half a decade to build a short connector.

[fillup420]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

This is ridiculous. Construction started in 2015, and by the time this opens, it would've taken over half a decade to build a short connector.

Seriously. I drive past there most days, both sides, and there has been little to no work being done in the last few weeks. Some contractor must be getting paid nicely to drag their feet.

[tolbs17]

The opening of the connector has been delayed again... From the RDU meet thread:

Hello Mr. Moore,
East End Connector will not be open to traffic in June 2021. The contractor is completing final construction items throughout the project before they place the final layer of asphalt. I am unable to give an exact date of opening right now. Although the entire project will most likely not be 100% complete by the end of the year, we do expect the connector from NC 147 to US 70 (I-885) to be open to traffic by that time.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again with any questions or requests for updates.
Kind regards,
Liam Shannon, Resident Engineer

This is ridiculous. Construction started in 2015, and by the time this opens, it would've taken over half a decade to build a short connector.

Seriously. I drive past there most days, both sides, and there has been little to no work being done in the last few weeks. Some contractor must be getting paid nicely to drag their feet.

They are LAZY!

[architect77]

I was reading about another new bridge under construction on the outer banks, and the coastal review website said that the contractor had stopped building adjacent roundabout or ramp to go work on higher priority projects elsewhere in the state.

So it's obvious that these contractors are being awarded multiple projects and can't work on all of them simultaneously.

I wonder if that's how NCDOT manages to afford so much new construction with mediocre amounts of annual funding.

Bulk discount rates by giving multiple projects to each of a handful of contractors.

It would explain a lot of the slow progress seen statewide.

[BrianP]

They are LAZY!

Generally there's a reason for delays.  Like earlier in the thread it was stated that the railroad bridge in this project was causing delays.  They're not doing it out of laziness.  Projects sometimes even have incentives to finish on time.  Or they could have the opposite and have penalties for not finishing on time. So the contractor wouldn't be lazy because it would likely be costly.

[BrianP]

I was reading about another new bridge under construction on the outer banks, and the coastal review website said that the contractor had stopped building adjacent roundabout or ramp to go work on higher priority projects elsewhere in the state.

So it's obvious that these contractors are being awarded multiple projects and can't work on all of them simultaneously.

That's up to the contractor. I would guess something like that the small project had a delay which could affect the larger project is what could have happened.  The small project was expected to be finished before the large project started.  But the delay changed that. The incentive on a large contract could be worth more than what's lost on a smaller project. So getting the large project done on time is better than losing out on both.  That seems to be a risk of the business and bidding on multiple projects.   

I wonder if that's how NCDOT manages to afford so much new construction with mediocre amounts of annual funding.

Bulk discount rates by giving multiple projects to each of a handful of contractors.

It would explain a lot of the slow progress seen statewide.

AFAIK projects are bid separately.  So I don't see how there would be a bulk rate.

[Dirt Roads]

Bulk discount rates by giving multiple projects to each of a handful of contractors.

AFAIK projects are bid separately.  So I don't see how there would be a bulk rate.

In the rail transit industry, we also see the effect of "bunching" in contracting where contractors that have other projects piggyback costs off of new projects; sometimes this is even welcomed by the agencies.  Low bid projects using Federal funding are still supposed to undergo a thorough financial and commercial review process before award, in addition to technical reviews.  We evaluate whether contractors will have too much work on their plate to complete the project on schedule; we also review the financial capability of the contractor to undertake so much work.  There's also the semi-technical side of whether the contractor can acquire enough equipment to handle all these projects.

All that aside, it does seem that most (if not all) of the highway projects in North Carolina are still suffering from the financial problems caused by the undervalue of real estate taken by eminent domain as a result of the court case Kirby v. NCDOT.  I can't help but think the slowdowns are due to cash flow issues stemming from those financial losses.  And that's another lawsuit waiting to happen, as it is not the contractors' problem that the NCDOT got hit with a big lawsuit.

[bob7374]

I've added some recent photos taken of the railroad bridge over Future I-885 by Sean C. McManus showing progress (or lack thereof) in its construction to my Future I-885 page:


Remainder of the photos at: https://malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html#photos

[roadman65]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

[sprjus4]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

That would be consistent with how both VDOT and NCDOT currently have I-85 signed between Durham and Petersburg.

[tolbs17]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

That would be consistent with how both VDOT and NCDOT currently have I-85 signed between Durham and Petersburg.

Unless I-85 gets extended....

[sprjus4]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

That would be consistent with how both VDOT and NCDOT currently have I-85 signed between Durham and Petersburg.

Unless I-85 gets extended....

This isn't Fictional Highways... it's never going to actually happen and VDOT has no plans for such an extension.

[Avalanchez71]

Drove past those new 885 shields today and they have been covered up completely.

They are still covered up as of last week.

[architect77]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

Yes, probably because I-85 doesn't go all the way to Richmond.

My friend from Henderson is upset because it was on the original sign drawings but was replaced by Petersburg.

[tolbs17]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

Yes, probably because I-85 doesn't go all the way to Richmond.

My friend from Henderson is upset because it was on the original sign drawings but was replaced by Petersburg.

Or reroute I-85 and have it directly go to Richmond.

[architect77]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

Yes, probably because I-85 doesn't go all the way to Richmond.

My friend from Henderson is upset because it was on the original sign drawings but was replaced by Petersburg.

Or reroute I-85 and have it directly go to Richmond.

I think it's ok to name the city at the end of a quite significant Southeastern interstate.

On that subject, Virginia has so many far away control cities, it makes it seem like nothing in the state itself is a worthy destination.

Miami, Durham, Rocky Mount, NC, Washington, Atlanta....it's like VA is just a crossroads from the Northeast to the Southeast.

[fillup420]

I've added some recent photos taken of the railroad bridge over Future I-885 by Sean C. McManus showing progress (or lack thereof) in its construction to my Future I-885 page:


Remainder of the photos at: https://malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html#photos

It looks pretty much done to me. However, they have been working on that retaining wall to the right for several weeks now. I have yet to see any trains go across to determine if the new bridge is in use yet.

[1995hoo]

I see Petersburg is going to be I-85's north control city and not Richmond.

Yes, probably because I-85 doesn't go all the way to Richmond.

My friend from Henderson is upset because it was on the original sign drawings but was replaced by Petersburg.

Or reroute I-85 and have it directly go to Richmond.

Could someone please head down to Greenville and fix the broken record?

[NJRoadfan]

NCDOT uses Richmond as the northbound control city extensively on I-85. Petersburg only appears once you get into VA.