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Author Topic: New Jersey Turnpike  (Read 860185 times)

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4225 on: November 09, 2021, 11:57:20 PM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.
Neither is US 40 at the other end, but the ramp from NJ 140 to I-295  S Bound still refers to the small NJTA part under Route 49 as "Turnpike South" and that also is not part of the ticket system.   

They both are part of the system.  I can see north of US 46, but the part up to US 46 is still as much turnpike as the rest.  It has a service area and at one time was ticketed even though that was 57 years ago when the Secaucus plaza was converted to the endpoint in 1964.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4226 on: November 10, 2021, 12:19:37 AM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.
It is officially the Turnpike up to US 46, the original end. I don't know whether the stretch from US 46 to I-80 is officially Turnpike or not. I think the shield was consciously omitted here because people equate NJTP with tolls.

famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4227 on: November 10, 2021, 02:23:59 AM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.
Neither is US 40 at the other end, but the ramp from NJ 140 to I-295  S Bound still refers to the small NJTA part under Route 49 as "Turnpike South" and that also is not part of the ticket system.   

They both are part of the system.  I can see north of US 46, but the part up to US 46 is still as much turnpike as the rest.  It has a service area and at one time was ticketed even though that was 57 years ago when the Secaucus plaza was converted to the endpoint in 1964.

Not quite. The US 40 segment has always been part of the turnpike and was built by the authority. Neither is the case north of US 46.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4228 on: November 10, 2021, 02:27:23 AM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.
It is officially the Turnpike up to US 46, the original end. I don't know whether the stretch from US 46 to I-80 is officially Turnpike or not. I think the shield was consciously omitted here because people equate NJTP with tolls.

The 46 to 80 segment used to be NJDOT, so I presume it isnít official turnpike, hence the exit numbers for Challenger Road NB and US 46 heading SB.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4229 on: November 10, 2021, 06:27:44 AM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.

A mainline plaza is just at the locations they are at for constructability; it doesn't officially mark the end of the Turnpike. 

Also to point out, the mainline toll plazas have even moved.  The original Interchange 1 was at MP 1.2; it's now at MP 2.4.  The Turnpike still owns and maintains everything down to 0.0.  Same thing with the PA Turnpike Spur.  That toll plaza was move eastward, but the Turnpike still owns the roadway to the west of it.

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bzakharin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4230 on: November 10, 2021, 12:28:24 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the "Turnpike South" signs for I-295 or US 40 are NJTA or NJDOT installs. The most "official" looking I can find is at https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6826694,-75.479803,3a,75y,285.78h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN3BWJbfXA1kll7Enf-lraQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's on NJ 140, but doesn't look very NJDOT to me.
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akotchi

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4231 on: November 10, 2021, 01:45:08 PM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.
It is officially the Turnpike up to US 46, the original end. I don't know whether the stretch from US 46 to I-80 is officially Turnpike or not. I think the shield was consciously omitted here because people equate NJTP with tolls.
All but the outer roadway southbound, where the I-80 local/express ramps come together -- that is still NJDOT's.

I think, for the reason you (and others) state, the Turnpike marker is omitted upon leaving the ticket/toll system, but also in other portals as well, i.e. EB at 14C, WB at 6A, NB at 18E/18W.  I am sure there are some exceptions left, though.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4232 on: November 10, 2021, 01:55:53 PM »

Here they forgot that the Turnpike still exists north of Exit 19.
https://goo.gl/maps/itsbuAuY1XkgQsY96

Plus they use the GWB without hesitation unlike the ramp NB from Newark Bay.

NJTA owns and maintains the section of 95 north of 18E-W, but it's not officially the Turnpike and never has been.

A mainline plaza is just at the locations they are at for constructability; it doesn't officially mark the end of the Turnpike. 

Also to point out, the mainline toll plazas have even moved.  The original Interchange 1 was at MP 1.2; it's now at MP 2.4.  The Turnpike still owns and maintains everything down to 0.0.  Same thing with the PA Turnpike Spur.  That toll plaza was move eastward, but the Turnpike still owns the roadway to the west of it.



Kansas has the same situation with its turnpike as NJ.  The KTA maintains all of I-70 to either the I-670 split or the MO Line.  Yet like I-95, the section beyond the ticket system resumes its exit numbers before it joined the Turnpike at Topeka (though in hypothetical for I-95 now due to the cancelled Somerset Freeway) as the Kansas Turnpikes own mileage from Oklahoma has control over I-70 mileage between Topeka and Bonner Springs then changes back to its own.

If the Somerset was indeed built though, both would definitely share a common situation.  However, KTA also donít sign the free part of the Kansas Turnpike as such either.  So the first answer scenario in post 4223 does seem plausible.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4233 on: November 10, 2021, 02:15:09 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the "Turnpike South" signs for I-295 or US 40 are NJTA or NJDOT installs. The most "official" looking I can find is at https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6826694,-75.479803,3a,75y,285.78h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN3BWJbfXA1kll7Enf-lraQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's on NJ 140, but doesn't look very NJDOT to me.

There's a lot of junk along NJ 140 for sure. The Turnpike or DOT authorized it, and like many projects contractors may have done the actual work, and, well, the work may not always be the best.

There's also stuff like
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L5hmsPaBGQmfd9fu5 where it should really say "TO", not "Use".  And on the ramp for 140 West to 295 South,
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qmNYdo44RyQUdyJA7 is posted here, which omits the fact the ramp is for 295 South. I think the sign was really intended for this gore point on 140 East: https://maps.app.goo.gl/zJtuwMKTZ6v6i6kJ9 .

Even this isn't accurate:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5w151tsru2yzxPXaA . "SOUTH" are accurate for both routes.  551 South is a hidden, unsigned overlay with 140 here.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 02:27:30 PM by jeffandnicole »
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4234 on: November 10, 2021, 06:46:20 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the "Turnpike South" signs for I-295 or US 40 are NJTA or NJDOT installs. The most "official" looking I can find is at https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6826694,-75.479803,3a,75y,285.78h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN3BWJbfXA1kll7Enf-lraQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's on NJ 140, but doesn't look very NJDOT to me.


Even this isn't accurate:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5w151tsru2yzxPXaA . "SOUTH" are accurate for both routes.  551 South is a hidden, unsigned overlay with 140 here.

Yes, that sign is for the SB I-295 and not for a ramp leading to both directions of I-295.  Should be South for both routes and only the Delaware Memorial Bridge as a control as the turnpike south ends at the I-295 merge or shortly afterwards.  So to mention the Turnpike here is not worth it at this point.  Yes, I see the mentality of people thinking the NJ Turnpike ends in Delaware at the I-95 merge, or even some consider the whole turnpike in NJ to be I-95.  Remember signs and maps do not mean much to people and no one pays attention to them even when looking at them since time began.

In Orlando, we have people who refer to South Orange Blossom Trail as US 441 or Four Forty One even though the shields for US 17 & 92 stand out more than the US 441 shield when all three routes are posted along the three route concurrency.  So some folks still will drive past I-95 now on Exit 6 guides, and still believe in the fact I-95 is with them on the Turnpike even though it's clear since 2018 ( or whatever year it was when the PA Turnpike and I-95 connection got completed).
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4235 on: November 11, 2021, 12:07:42 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the "Turnpike South" signs for I-295 or US 40 are NJTA or NJDOT installs. The most "official" looking I can find is at https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6826694,-75.479803,3a,75y,285.78h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN3BWJbfXA1kll7Enf-lraQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's on NJ 140, but doesn't look very NJDOT to me.


Even this isn't accurate:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5w151tsru2yzxPXaA . "SOUTH" are accurate for both routes.  551 South is a hidden, unsigned overlay with 140 here.

Yes, that sign is for the SB I-295 and not for a ramp leading to both directions of I-295.  Should be South for both routes and only the Delaware Memorial Bridge as a control as the turnpike south ends at the I-295 merge or shortly afterwards.  So to mention the Turnpike here is not worth it at this point.  Yes, I see the mentality of people thinking the NJ Turnpike ends in Delaware at the I-95 merge, or even some consider the whole turnpike in NJ to be I-95.  Remember signs and maps do not mean much to people and no one pays attention to them even when looking at them since time began.

While a lot of people don't look at signs when they're familiar with the area, they are certainly going to view them when trying to get back to the road they need.  Even though the NJ Tpk is within a mile of its terminus here, the signage is still important, especially as there's no direct ramp onto the Turnpike Southbound in this area.  The signage gets the job done as is, but can be greatly improved.  The worst area was the ramp from 140 East to 551 South - at one point no signage was at that gore point, and people naturally assumed it was a ramp to get to 295 South.  Certainly had the appearance of one.

In Orlando, we have people who refer to South Orange Blossom Trail as US 441 or Four Forty One even though the shields for US 17 & 92 stand out more than the US 441 shield when all three routes are posted along the three route concurrency.  So some folks still will drive past I-95 now on Exit 6 guides, and still believe in the fact I-95 is with them on the Turnpike even though it's clear since 2018 ( or whatever year it was when the PA Turnpike and I-95 connection got completed).

I think the I-95 shields at Exit 6 probably help a great deal in encouraging those that want to follow 95 to exit there.  I can't say for sure, but compared to the past where 95 signage all but disappeared by Exit 10 going south, it's a much better signed route.

On the Northbound side within Delaware, following the signs for the NJ Turnpike still remains an very popular option.  As it's extremely clear here which way 95 goes, I surmise that most of those taking the NJ Turnpike between Delaware and Interchanges 6 - in either direction - are doing so intentionally.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4236 on: November 12, 2021, 10:14:39 AM »

You be a bit surprised how many people who I have met living in NJ long before the GPS came into our lives, really thought the Turnpike was I-95 when I lived there. Even back in the seventies and eighties the signs were clear at the 95 and 295 split then, yet people whom I worked with thought I-95 went over the Delaware Memorial Bridge instead of through Wilmington and Philadelphia.


Even In Orlando we had many people call the US 17/92/441 concurrency as Four Forty One and not even realize that US 17 & 92 were also present there. Yet the shields for all three routes features US 17/92 on top of US 441 which to first glance sees the two shields on top first over the not so conspicuous US 441 beneath it. 

Bottom line people donít comprehend what their eyes see when it comes to road signs as my experience dealing with motorists on toll roads who can even see a billboard size toll rate chart and then tell me the sign that they didnít see needs changing as the price advertised was wrong.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4237 on: November 12, 2021, 10:36:23 AM »

You be a bit surprised how many people who I have met living in NJ long before the GPS came into our lives, really thought the Turnpike was I-95 when I lived there. Even back in the seventies and eighties the signs were clear at the 95 and 295 split then, yet people whom I worked with thought I-95 went over the Delaware Memorial Bridge instead of through Wilmington and Philadelphia.

I'd bet most if not all of those people from NJ were from North Jersey, where the turnpike has been 95 more or less all along, and they just assumed it went straight down to the Del Mem Br. South Jersey people are highly unlikely to have such belief considering they know I-95 is in Philly.
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lstone19

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4238 on: November 12, 2021, 10:38:00 AM »

You be a bit surprised how many people who I have met living in NJ long before the GPS came into our lives, really thought the Turnpike was I-95 when I lived there. Even back in the seventies and eighties the signs were clear at the 95 and 295 split then, yet people whom I worked with thought I-95 went over the Delaware Memorial Bridge instead of through Wilmington and Philadelphia.


Even In Orlando we had many people call the US 17/92/441 concurrency as Four Forty One and not even realize that US 17 & 92 were also present there. Yet the shields for all three routes features US 17/92 on top of US 441 which to first glance sees the two shields on top first over the not so conspicuous US 441 beneath it. 

Bottom line people donít comprehend what their eyes see when it comes to road signs as my experience dealing with motorists on toll roads who can even see a billboard size toll rate chart and then tell me the sign that they didnít see needs changing as the price advertised was wrong.

It gets worse when a state DOT re-routes a route and people for years refer to the old way the route went as the route which just causes confusion for people who don't know the history. And sometimes, these mistakes get used by traffic reporters as well. I remember once hearing a traffic reporter say for something in my area (NW suburbs of Chicago prior to the tolling and improvement of the Elgin-O'Hare (IL-390)) that there was "a crash on Thorndale Ave. between Route 53 and Rohlwing Rd." which was a very specific location since Rohlwing Rd. had been Route 53 for the last 10+ years. (prior to that, it had been routed via what is now I-290 and I-355 and many people still continued to call those roads "53" (ironically, before the freeways were built, the original route of 53 was also Rohlwing Rd. so it was back on its original route).
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4239 on: November 12, 2021, 02:07:40 PM »

You be a bit surprised how many people who I have met living in NJ long before the GPS came into our lives, really thought the Turnpike was I-95 when I lived there. Even back in the seventies and eighties the signs were clear at the 95 and 295 split then, yet people whom I worked with thought I-95 went over the Delaware Memorial Bridge instead of through Wilmington and Philadelphia.

I'd bet most if not all of those people from NJ were from North Jersey, where the turnpike has been 95 more or less all along, and they just assumed it went straight down to the Del Mem Br. South Jersey people are highly unlikely to have such belief considering they know I-95 is in Philly.
When I was a kid, most people in New England and points to the northeast of NJ certainly thought of the Turnpike as I-95, while the stretch on the other side of the river was an afterthought, since regional and national traffic would just naturally use the Turnpike to move north or south along the coast.

The I-95 gap was just one of those glitches in the matrix:  People knew how to get to where they wanted to go and mostly ignored the confusing numbering and routing.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4240 on: November 22, 2021, 07:22:37 PM »

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4241 on: November 23, 2021, 03:07:14 PM »

EZ-Pass express lanes opened at 18E.
https://www.facebook.com/TurnpikeAuthority/posts/4529787643764160

UGH. They're using "Plaza bypass" here. That's not correct verbiage. It seems to be NJTA's way of signing things now, unfortunately. It will be meaningless in a few years when they finally go full ETC on the Turnpike, but I will still be annoyed until then.

Also, that should be "Toll Plaza Ahead" because you don't pay a toll at that point, you get a ticket if you're not using an E-ZPass.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4242 on: November 23, 2021, 03:11:36 PM »

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4243 on: November 23, 2021, 07:40:05 PM »

EZ-Pass express lanes opened at 18E.
https://www.facebook.com/TurnpikeAuthority/posts/4529787643764160

Link requires a login.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4244 on: November 23, 2021, 08:24:25 PM »

Nice to see they're sticking with the LED arrows in the BGS. They actually look better than the ones at the southern toll plaza.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4245 on: November 24, 2021, 01:14:43 AM »

Why do they need the blanket gantries for the scanners? Florida uses just typical overhead sign trusses and if memory serves me correctly, so does the South Jersey Transportation Authority on the ACE at the Pleasantville Toll Plaza for ORT there.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4246 on: November 27, 2021, 10:43:57 AM »

I was reading the Capital Plan for the Turnpike which does include the six lane widening of the 37 miles that is still four lanes in South Jersey as well as making the entire Newark Bay Extension up to Columbus Drive six lanes as well. The latter includes all new elevated structures and the replacement of the Casciano Bridge over Newark Bay.

Big times ahead and a bigger mess on the Newark Bay Extension as well.  Building all new viaducts especially at Jersey Avenue where the roadway is up against a cold food storage facility will create a long nightmare.  Though not adding lanes to this, the viaduct replacement will be more of a challenge being NJ 139 runs next to it also.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 10:46:00 AM by roadman65 »
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4247 on: November 27, 2021, 04:48:50 PM »

I was reading the Capital Plan for the Turnpike which does include the six lane widening of the 37 miles that is still four lanes in South Jersey as well as making the entire Newark Bay Extension up to Columbus Drive six lanes as well. The latter includes all new elevated structures and the replacement of the Casciano Bridge over Newark Bay.

Big times ahead and a bigger mess on the Newark Bay Extension as well.  Building all new viaducts especially at Jersey Avenue where the roadway is up against a cold food storage facility will create a long nightmare.  Though not adding lanes to this, the viaduct replacement will be more of a challenge being NJ 139 runs next to it also.
At one point I'd heard that giant building between Monmouth and Coles Streets was going to be removed (not by NJTA, just in general). Maybe I'm confusing that with something else.

 


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