Boston Traffic Reporter/Blogger Defends Use of '128' moniker

[NE2]

People have been calling it 128 for almost forty years now - get a life, get used to it, and let's get on with more important matters.

[Pete from Boston]

This issue is the epitome of the timeless "engineers and bureacrats vs. the public" battle, and it really highlights the failure that is the placing systems over people.

It is called 128 because there is no other name in common use that communicates "the circumferential highway ten miles out from downtown Boston."  Clearly, as the system-worshippers ignore, people have a need to have a way to refer to the circumferential highway ten miles out from downtown Boston.

It could be something else.  It could be anything else.  But if it's not 128, it has to be something else.  Massachusetts already has too many signs made by folks who put their "expertise" over users' needs.  The ongoing elimination of 128 while ignoring the reason people use it keeps true to that tradition. 

[Roadsguy]

Name it "128th Street Expressway," but keep it 95.

[vdeane]

This issue is the epitome of the timeless "engineers and bureacrats vs. the public" battle, and it really highlights the failure that is the placing systems over people.

It is called 128 because there is no other name in common use that communicates "the circumferential highway ten miles out from downtown Boston."  Clearly, as the system-worshippers ignore, people have a need to have a way to refer to the circumferential highway ten miles out from downtown Boston.

It could be something else.  It could be anything else.  But if it's not 128, it has to be something else.  Massachusetts already has too many signs made by folks who put their "expertise" over users' needs.  The ongoing elimination of 128 while ignoring the reason people use it keeps true to that tradition. 

Does it really need to be called anything uniform?  In Rochester, we get by just fine with 390 and 590.  We do it by pretending that the concept of beltways doesn't even exist.

[NE2]

"Outer Loop" seems like an obvious name for Rochester.

[SteveG1988]

Give it a color based route name.

I476 south of 276 in philly is called the Blue Route even though it never offically carried that name, it goes back to the planning stages, north of 276 it is called the northeast extension. Keeps confusion down between the two different highways that share a route #

Call 128 the Red Route or Green Route or give it a cool name like Veterans Expressway, or something unique and local.

[kkt]

What's wrong with signing as a duplex, 128 all the way around and 93 or 95 where appropriate?

[NE2]

Pull a Nashville and call it the One Twenty-Eight Parkway.

[vdeane]

"Outer Loop" seems like an obvious name for Rochester.

I've heard it called that once is a blue moon, but never as a common affair.  It would be interesting to see what perceptions are of 390 vs. our perceptions of it.

[KEVIN_224]

Much of I-84 west of the Connecticut River, from the I-91 junction westward, is the Yankee Expressway. There is a sign indicating that by the east portal of the Hartford "tunnel". However, traffic reporters here will never call it that. There are other roadways in Connecticut named for Christopher Columbus, Chester Bowles and Taras Shevchenko, yet the names aren't in common use either. We also have a sign for the John Davis Lodge (Connecticut) Turnpike on I-95 north in Greenwich, heading north from New York.

[roadman]

What's wrong with signing as a duplex, 128 all the way around and 93 or 95 where appropriate?

What is right with signing as a duplex?  Why is it necessary to post 128 south of Peabody at  all?  I mean, will the world suddenly end if we teach people to call a highway Interstate 95?  No, the highway will remain, and people will continue to use the highway.  And people will find it easier to use a highway that has only one route number.

Keeping the '128' designation is an example of how the "customer service" mentality (i.e. "the customer is always right") can be so wrong when applied to government services.  We do not need to retain a route number to satisfy some locals who object to change.  And we should demand that traffic reporters learn to identify routes by their proper (and posted) designations.

Suppose Boston sports reporters decided they were going to refer to Gillette Stadium as Schafer Stadium because somebody convinced them that "local tradition" and "history" demands it?  How long do you think they would keep their jobs?  Yet, the traffic reporters keep on calling Interstate 95 (and Interstate 93) as Route 128, and they get away with it.  Why?  Because every time the state DOT tries to improve navigation for drivers, and also simplify the signing, by eliminating the 128 designation, the politicians and the media and the business community make a big stink about "oh poor me, we can't deal with a new route designation."

And, when the media writes editorials is support of keeping a route number (as the Globe and others have in the past), it's a truly sad day for journalism.  Funny how they don't write similar editorials when airlines or banks to propose change their names as part of a pending merger, demanding that the regulators overseeing the merger require that the old names be kept.

Now I agree that there may have been some rationale for carrying a duplex between Peabody and Braintree for the first year or two after the revised I-95 and I-93 designations were introduced.  But there is no logical justification whatsoever (and "tradition" or "because it's always been that way" doesn't count) for keeping an outdated designation thirty nine years later.

The BGS panels between Peabody and Canton indicate 95 only, the enhanced mile markers indicate 95 only.  It's time for the "keep 128 forever" contingent in Massachusetts to get a real life and learn to accept change.

[deathtopumpkins]

Suppose Boston sports reporters decided they were going to refer to Gillette Stadium as Schafer Stadium because somebody convinced them that "local tradition" and "history" demands it?

Ever heard of the Garden? Hardly anyone calls it "TD Garden". I even still hear people call it both Boston Garden and the Fleet Center, though most shorten it to "the Garden".

Stadium names were perhaps a poor choice of comparison.

[NE2]

Government is not a business. End thread.

[kkt]

What's wrong with signing as a duplex, 128 all the way around and 93 or 95 where appropriate?

What is right with signing as a duplex?  Why is it necessary to post 128 south of Peabody at  all?  I mean, will the world suddenly end if we teach people to call a highway Interstate 95?  No, the highway will remain, and people will continue to use the highway.  And people will find it easier to use a highway that has only one route number.

I think the professional road community often underestimates how disruptive it is to change route numbers.  Many people carry memories of directions that are perfectly adequate for them to drive to their destination for decades, provided there aren't big changes to the route numbering.  Putting them where they have a few seconds to guess if 93 is what they remember as 128 or something different invites confusion at best or dangerous maneuvers at worst.

Everyone recognizes that businesses can rename themselves or their facilities at whim.  Highways are supposed to be a public good.

[Pete from Boston]

Government's only job is to meet the needs of the people that created it.  In this case, there are multiple needs not served by a single simple solution. Bad government blindly imposes simple solutions that ignore public needs and desires.  Our government wasn't created to be the most efficient.  As they say, Mussolini made the trains run on time, but was it worth it?

What's interesting is that outside this forum and some bureacracy, there is probably no significant public demand to eliminate 128.  I think if you had this discussion with most people, you'd either get blank stares or a desire to keep it. 

[PHLBOS]

People have been calling it 128 for almost forty over sixty years now

FTFY

It could be something else.  It could be anything else.  But if it's not 128, it has to be something else.

As stated earlier in this thread, had the street name of the the road (Yankee Divsion Highway or Circumferential Beltway) or equivalent (New Yorker-style YDH)) took a greater hold at the highway's inception; most motorists and the like wouldn't care what route number(s) the corridor carries.  Case in point: both the Baltimore & Capital Beltways (particularly the Capital Beltway).

Suppose Boston sports reporters decided they were going to refer to Gillette Stadium as Schafer Stadium because somebody convinced them that "local tradition" and "history" demands it?

Ever heard of the Garden? Hardly anyone calls it "TD Garden". I even still hear people call it both Boston Garden and the Fleet Center, though most shorten it to "the Garden".

Stadium names were perhaps a poor choice of comparison.

Since Garden is still part of the name, there's a bit of a bridge between the old & new.

In Philly, the stadium where the Flyers & 76ers have played at since 1992 has changed names 3 times due to various bank mergers/aquistiions: From CoreStates Center to First Union Center (aka the F.U. Center) to Wachovia Center to the present Wells Fargo Center.

Heck, the last subway stop at the southern end of SEPTA's Broad Street Line changed from the long-standing Pattison (for Pattison Ave.) to AT&T even though there's no company facilities near the stop.  SEPTA was recieving money from AT&T to have their name on the stop.  While there are some that may still refer to the station as Pattison; most will now say AT&T because that's how it's signed.

Back to the Greater Boston area:

How many T (MBTA)-users still refer to the Downtown Crossing (Red & Orange Line stations), Government Center (Blue & Green Line stations) & Aquarium (Blue Line) Stations as Washington (for Washington St.), Scollay Square (in this case, the name was added in smaller print underneath most Government Center signs about a decade later) and Atlantic (for Atlantic Ave., prior to the New England Aquarium being built)?

Why is it necessary to post 128 south of Peabody at  all?  I mean, will the world suddenly end if we teach people to call a highway Interstate 95?  No, the highway will remain, and people will continue to use the highway.

Not to bring an auto tragedy into the subject, but one fatal car crash last week; both the news reporters (at least on NECN) and an article in the Boston Herald referred to the accident location in Weston as the ramp from the eastbound Mass Pike to Interstate 95 North.  No mention of 128 whatsoever.

Keeping the '128' designation is an example of how the "customer service" mentality (i.e. "the customer is always right") can be so wrong when applied to government services.  We do not need to retain a route number to satisfy some locals who object to change.  And we should demand that traffic reporters learn to identify routes by their proper (and posted) designations.
...
Yet, the traffic reporters keep on calling Interstate 95 (and Interstate 93) as Route 128, and they get away with it.  Why?  Because every time the state DOT tries to improve navigation for drivers, and also simplify the signing, by eliminating the 128 designation, the politicians and the media and the business community make a big stink about "oh poor me, we can't deal with a new route designation."

And, when the media writes editorials is support of keeping a route number (as the Globe and others have in the past), it's a truly sad day for journalism.  Funny how they don't write similar editorials when airlines or banks to propose change their names as part of a pending merger, demanding that the regulators overseeing the merger require that the old names be kept.

Now I agree that there may have been some rationale for carrying a duplex between Peabody and Braintree for the first year or two after the revised I-95 and I-93 designations were introduced.  But there is no logical justification whatsoever (and "tradition" or "because it's always been that way" doesn't count) for keeping an outdated designation thirty nine years later.

The BGS panels between Peabody and Canton indicate 95 only, the enhanced mile markers indicate 95 only.  It's time for the "keep 128 forever" contingent in Massachusetts to get a real life and learn to accept change.

As stated many posts back (pardon any redundancy), the reasons for why the 128 name stayed along its Interstate-occupied sections were due to:

1.  The time lapse between the Interstate designations being established (1975) and when the I-95/MA 128 Peabody interchange (Exit 45/29) was completed (1988).

2.  Several businesses (mainly car dealerships in Woburn) and the MBTA & Amtrak naming a station after the highway in Canton/Westwood.  Many Bay State businesses, in year's past, already raised a stink when the area codes changed twice in some locations (MA only had 2 area codes, 617 & 413, prior to 1988); they probably would try to sue the state if they were mandated to change their business name (read: legal corporate identity) because the route number (that they named their business after) changed.

3.  The DPW did itself no favors when it erected those BBS' in the early 80s (years after the 95 & 93 identities were assigned) reading 128 AMERICA'S TECHNOLOGY HIGHWAY, the word HIGHWAY was changed to REGION about a year later due to the Yankee Division Association complaining that the BBS' gives the impression that the street name of the highway (named after them) was changed without their knowledge nor consent.

That said, the DPW/MassHighway should've been a bit more aggressive with the marketing of the redesignations once the Peabody interchange was fully opened 25 years ago.  A few NOTICE 128 IS NOW 95 and NOTICE 128 IS NOW 93 BGS' should've been posted back where applicable back then.

What's interesting is that outside this forum and some bureacracy, there is probably no significant public demand to eliminate 128.  I think if you had this discussion with most people, you'd either get blank stares or a desire to keep it.

No doubt, there's some truth to that.  Although, as stated earlier and by many here, the designation issue is more acute along the Braintree to Canton (I-93) stretch because the cardinal directions (north-south) are now the reverse of the old 128 cardinals.

[roadman]

As I see it, the problem has not beenlack of aggressive marketing regarding the re-designation, but caving in to pressure every time the Legistature and the media have stepped in to block the removal of the 128 designation.  Except for I-93 Canton to Braintree, where the 128 designation was offically removed in 1989 (and is no longer on any BGS panels), that's simply an issue of lazy traffic reporters.  Yes, lazy.  They've figured out that the Wincehster Highlands exit on I-93 is now Park Street, and have been referring to it as such in their reports.  They could very easily do the same for I-93 and I-95 between Braintree and Peabody.

And, with respect to the "keep 128 forever" contingent, every "justification" for keeping the designation south of Peabody is a strawman argument.

[PHLBOS]

All true, to an extent.  But, my fore-mentioned 80s-vintage BBS item is clearly a classic case of the DPW contradicting itself back then.  Another example involved some BGS' erected in Waltham during the early-to-mid 1980s that only had 128 shields on them.  These were replaced about a decade later with the current ones w/button-copy I-95 shields.  One of those older BGS even used the more 128-oriented Gloucester as its northbound control destination (vs. NH-Maine for 95).

Trust me, having been raised and resided in Massachusetts until 1990; I lived through most of the initial transformation of 128 into 95/93 and I can tell you that the effort by the DPW back then was somewhat lackluster from a layman's perspective.

The fore-mentioned NOTICE signs should've been erected at the same time the exit numbers changed. 

Side bar: BTW, the DPW messed up a tad when they renumbered the exits for MA 30 & I-90 back in the late 80s.  The old 50 (for I-90) and 51 (for MA 30) should've been 24 and 25 respectively; not the other way around (25 for I-90, 24 for MA 30). 

The reason: in both directions, the ramp for I-90 comes before the ramp for MA 30.  The old numbering followed the southbound sequence; the current numbering should follow the northbound sequence in terms of which ramp comes first. 

Hopefully, when the mile-marker based exit numbering takes place; MassDOT will correct this oversight (possibly 39A of I-90, 39B for MA 30 or 39 for I-90, 40 for MA 30); especially since I-90 crosses I-95 south of where MA 30 crosses it.

[kkt]

As I see it, the problem has not beenlack of aggressive marketing regarding the re-designation, but caving in to pressure every time the Legistature and the media have stepped in to block the removal of the 128 designation.  Except for I-93 Canton to Braintree, where the 128 designation was offically removed in 1989 (and is no longer on any BGS panels), that's simply an issue of lazy traffic reporters.  Yes, lazy.  They've figured out that the Wincehster Highlands exit on I-93 is now Park Street, and have been referring to it as such in their reports.  They could very easily do the same for I-93 and I-95 between Braintree and Peabody.

And, with respect to the "keep 128 forever" contingent, every "justification" for keeping the designation south of Peabody is a strawman argument.

The reporters are using the route number their audience identifies with that road.  If they don't, they won't be pleasing the public.  Unlike road professionals, failure to please their public means they could be out of a job.

[deathtopumpkins]

How many T (MBTA)-users still refer to the Downtown Crossing (Red & Orange Line stations), Government Center (Blue & Green Line stations) & Aquarium (Blue Line) Stations as Washington (for Washington St.), Scollay Square (in this case, the name was added in smaller print underneath most Government Center signs about a decade later) and Atlantic (for Atlantic Ave., prior to the New England Aquarium being built)?

Zero. No one I know even knows those stations used to be called by those names, unless I point it out as random trivia.

The reporters are using the route number their audience identifies with that road.  If they don't, they won't be pleasing the public.  Unlike road professionals, failure to please their public means they could be out of a job.

Exactly! Traffic reporters shouldn't be trying to push the public away from a route number by not using it, they should be calling a route by whatever number the public uses, since the point of them is to aid the public.

And yes, you could argue that non-locals might not know what 128 is (even though it's still signed), but ALL cities have names traffic reporters use that aren't signed anywhere and don't appear on any maps (e.g. freeway and interchange names).

[machias]

Exactly! Traffic reporters shouldn't be trying to push the public away from a route number by not using it, they should be calling a route by whatever number the public uses, since the point of them is to aid the public.

And yes, you could argue that non-locals might not know what 128 is (even though it's still signed), but ALL cities have names traffic reporters use that aren't signed anywhere and don't appear on any maps (e.g. freeway and interchange names).

When I lived in the area years ago I asked a couple of different people why they still called it 128 and both of them said it had to be 128 because it went around the city.  I was impressed that they knew the concept of a 3-do, even though the concept didn't apply here.

[agentsteel53]

When I lived in the area years ago I asked a couple of different people why they still called it 128 and both of them said it had to be 128 because it went around the city.  I was impressed that they knew the concept of a 3-do, even though the concept didn't apply here.

you mean to say it's a bypass of MA-28???

[agentsteel53]

How many T (MBTA)-users still refer to the Downtown Crossing (Red & Orange Line stations), Government Center (Blue & Green Line stations) & Aquarium (Blue Line) Stations as Washington (for Washington St.), Scollay Square (in this case, the name was added in smaller print underneath most Government Center signs about a decade later) and Atlantic (for Atlantic Ave., prior to the New England Aquarium being built)?

Zero. No one I know even knows those stations used to be called by those names, unless I point it out as random trivia.

if you're looking for trivia, go to Government Center and gaze upon the old tiled "Scollay Under" sign.  (there's also one at Broadway, which has not been renamed.)

[Mr_Northside]

And yes, you could argue that non-locals might not know what 128 is (even though it's still signed), but ALL cities have names traffic reporters use that aren't signed anywhere and don't appear on any maps (e.g. freeway and interchange names).

I can vouch that applies to Pittsburgh.  Very frequent use of "Parkway [East, West, North]" in traffic reports, while no signs use the terms, and the closest I've ever seen anything, other than route #, labeled on a map is "Penn-Lincoln Parkway" (Parkway East/West).

[PHLBOS]

How many T (MBTA)-users still refer to the Downtown Crossing (Red & Orange Line stations), Government Center (Blue & Green Line stations) & Aquarium (Blue Line) Stations as Washington (for Washington St.), Scollay Square (in this case, the name was added in smaller print underneath most Government Center signs about a decade later) and Atlantic (for Atlantic Ave., prior to the New England Aquarium being built)?

Zero. No one I know even knows those stations used to be called by those names, unless I point it out as random trivia.

To a degree, you just proved my point regarding people getting accustomed to name or route number change to a transportation facility (i.e. it can be done).

How many people (and I'm aware we have a separate thread on the subject) still refer to the stretch of I-84 between I-384 and I-90 in MA & CT as I-86 or even Route 15?  Or better yet, how many people out west refer to I-84 through OR & ID as I-80N?

The point that I (and Roadman) are trying to make that had the Route 128 name not been immortalized by the local culture and the like; the number change south of Peabody would have either:

a. Not been noticed.
and/or
b. People would've gotten accustomed/used to the new designation over time.

The reporters are using the route number their audience identifies with that road.  If they don't, they won't be pleasing the public.  Unlike road professionals, failure to please their public means they could be out of a job.

Exactly! Traffic reporters shouldn't be trying to push the public away from a route number by not using it, they should be calling a route by whatever number the public uses, since the point of them is to aid the public.

And yes, you could argue that non-locals might not know what 128 is (even though it's still signed), but ALL cities have names traffic reporters use that aren't signed anywhere and don't appear on any maps (e.g. freeway and interchange names).

Once upon a time in Philadelphia, there was a road called East River Drive that was renamed Kelly Drive (after the late actress and Princess of Monaco) many decades ago.  Every traffic reporter in the Delaware Valley refers to that road as Kelly Drive and not the original East River Drive name. 

More recently, West River Drive (also in Philadelphia) was renamed to Martin Luther King Drive a few years ago.  Almost overnight, the traffic reporters referred to the road by its new name.

Both of the above-mentioned roads are arterials that run mostly parallel I-76 (Schuylkill Expressway) and are used by locals and commuters alike as an alternate route.

So never say never regarding traffic reporters adapting to using a new name for a particular road.

When I lived in the area years ago I asked a couple of different people why they still called it 128 and both of them said it had to be 128 because it went around the city.  I was impressed that they knew the concept of a 3-do, even though the concept didn't apply here.

Truth be told, there has been a Route 128 of sorts ringing around the City of Boston 2 to 3 decades before the expressway version was fully built in the 1950s.  It consisted of a network of local streets that ran inside and parallel to the highway corridor more or less; most of which still exist today but un-numbered.  MA 228 in the South Shore is the southernmost leg of the original pre-highway MA 128.  So the number has been around for quite a while to say the least.