Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

Started by swbrotha100, October 16, 2012, 09:51:18 PM

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swbrotha100

MOD NOTE: Original thread title was "Public Input Sought On Interstate 11" –Roadfro




Link to story is below. I don't know if NDOT or ADOT have asked about the public's opinion of the proposed I-11 before now.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/public-input-sought-on-interstate-11-plan-173919851.html


OCGuy81

It's been a very long time since i was on 93 heading south from I-40 near Kingman, but I don't recall it being a super busy stretch of road, though this was at least 10 years ago.  I'm assuming I-11 would follow 93, with a possible bypass around Wickenburg and then following 60 into Phoenix? Is there enough traffic along the existing route to justify this?


Occidental Tourist

Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 18, 2012, 09:46:01 AM
It's been a very long time since i was on 93 heading south from I-40 near Kingman, but I don't recall it being a super busy stretch of road, though this was at least 10 years ago.  I'm assuming I-11 would follow 93, with a possible bypass around Wickenburg and then following 60 into Phoenix? Is there enough traffic along the existing route to justify this?

It looks like south of Wickenburg, I-11 would follow the proposed Hassayampa Freeway, which makes sense, as 60 between Phoenix and Wickenburg is hemmed in by the railroad and roadside businesses until Sun City Grand and then by suburban development south of that.

Bigmikelakers

The proposed Hassayampa Freeway sure runs west of Phoenix. Its almost out by Tonopah. That area is not developed at all yet. I wonder if its construction would spur future development? I also noticed its proposed route has it curving around to the south of Metro Phoenix. Sort of like a partial beltway bypass route. Very cool. And if the White Tank Freeway is built, US 60 traffic can easily meet with it to head northwest into Vegas.

JasonOfORoads

Build it from Vegas to Reno, so that our two largest metro areas can finally be connected by Interstate.
Borderline addicted to roadgeeking since ~1989.

roadfro

^ Is it necessary though? Having driven the Vegas to Reno drive multiple times, I would contend that it is not...
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

JasonOfORoads

It just seems a little odd that a state's two largest metro areas aren't connected by Interstate, let alone one single route designation.

Besides, if we can get the freeway built, maybe we can get the country's first 90 MPH speed limit :)
Borderline addicted to roadgeeking since ~1989.

Alps

Quote from: JasonOfORoads on October 29, 2012, 02:31:22 PM
It just seems a little odd that a state's two largest metro areas aren't connected by Interstate, let alone one single route designation.

Besides, if we can get the freeway built, maybe we can get the country's first 90 MPH speed limit :)
Jackson to Gulfport, MS - At least it's one number (US 49), but no direct Interstate. (You can get from LV to Reno via I-15 to I-80, just like Jackson to Gulfport via I-55 to I-10.)

agentsteel53

Quote from: JasonOfORoads on October 29, 2012, 02:31:22 PM
It just seems a little odd that a state's two largest metro areas aren't connected by Interstate, let alone one single route designation.

Besides, if we can get the freeway built, maybe we can get the country's first 90 MPH speed limit :)

even on two-lane US-95, a 90mph speed limit would be appropriate over at least 80% of the mileage.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

NE2

A bigger problem is that signs are inconsistent. US 95 north is signed for Reno in Vegas, but as best as I can tell not all turns along the route actually have Reno marked.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadfro

^ Distance and junction signs on US 95 north don't regularly include "Reno" once leaving the Las Vegas area. Many of them will list Tonopah consistently (signs in Vegas used to say "Tonopah / Reno"). I don't think Reno is used consistently until US 95 intersects US 50 in Fallon, at which point every junction sign points the way to Reno. However, I believe southbound uses Las Vegas as a control on junction and distance signage much more regularly.

Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

NE2

However, this sign on I-80 implies that the route between Vegas and Reno is via Yerington, not Fallon.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Interstate Trav

Quote from: roadfro on October 30, 2012, 04:45:57 AM
^ Distance and junction signs on US 95 north don't regularly include "Reno" once leaving the Las Vegas area. Many of them will list Tonopah consistently (signs in Vegas used to say "Tonopah / Reno"). I don't think Reno is used consistently until US 95 intersects US 50 in Fallon, at which point every junction sign points the way to Reno. However, I believe southbound uses Las Vegas as a control on junction and distance signage much more regularly.



I wonder if the I-11 freeway gets built, would it bypass Reno, or go into it.

Also since current traffic volumes don't seem to justify I-11, is it a "If they build it they will come" type of plan? 

roadfro

Quote from: NE2 on October 30, 2012, 05:26:01 AM
However, this sign on I-80 implies that the route between Vegas and Reno is via Yerington, not Fallon.

The Yerington route is also plausible, but the Fallon route is used much more often (it's generally the first option that comes up in driving directions on mapping sites). The Alt route via Yerington is 3 miles longer, and has longer stretches of slightly lower speed limits. Taking Alt 50 and US 50 to Fallon is now completely 4-lane, which is a plus (when you just want to get through the drive).

I think Vegas is mentioned on this sign because the next supplemental sign directs long-distance travelers east (toward Fallon and Ely) as opposed to south (Yerington, Las Vegas). I actually wish NDOT would put up a sign that directs to Vegas via either route.


Quote from: Interstate Trav on October 30, 2012, 01:41:31 PM
I wonder if the I-11 freeway gets built, would it bypass Reno, or go into it.

Also since current traffic volumes don't seem to justify I-11, is it a "If they build it they will come" type of plan? 

The I-11 study proposals look at extending north from Vegas in a multitude of directions towards Canada. A lot of speculation is that it would connect to I-580 in Carson City and Reno, but that is not a given. The goal would be what route efficiently moves trucks and goods, and a direct link to Reno may not be best considering how you'd tie that in to points further north. An earlier idea reported in media had it following much of the US 95 corridor north, and the US 93 general corridor through eastern Nevada would also be a viable option--it all will depend on where the demand will be.

I doubt this will lead to a major "if they build it, they will come" scenario. Look at I-80 through northern Nevada. No new towns have sprung up along that highway since it was constructed through the 60s-80s. Except for maybe Elko, no town served by I-80 has had significant growth due to the I-80. Central Nevada is sparsely populated as it is (much less populous than the region served by I-80), so it is very doubtful that a new north-south interstate will spur significant growth.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Interstate Trav

#14
Quote from: roadfro on October 31, 2012, 05:45:40 AM
Quote from: Interstate Trav on October 30, 2012, 01:41:31 PM
I wonder if the I-11 freeway gets built, would it bypass Reno, or go into it.

Also since current traffic volumes don't seem to justify I-11, is it a "If they build it they will come" type of plan? 

The I-11 study proposals look at extending north from Vegas in a multitude of directions towards Canada. A lot of speculation is that it would connect to I-580 in Carson City and Reno, but that is not a given. The goal would be what route efficiently moves trucks and goods, and a direct link to Reno may not be best considering how you'd tie that in to points further north. An earlier idea reported in media had it following much of the US 95 corridor north, and the US 93 general corridor through eastern Nevada would also be a viable option--it all will depend on where the demand will be.

I doubt this will lead to a major "if they build it, they will come" scenario. Look at I-80 through northern Nevada. No new towns have sprung up along that highway since it was constructed through the 60s-80s. Except for maybe Elko, no town served by I-80 has had significant growth due to the I-80. Central Nevada is sparsely populated as it is (much less populous than the region served by I-80), so it is very doubtful that a new north-south interstate will spur significant growth.

It's kinda funny I just realised I asked you this same question on the I-11 Thread in the Mountain Roads.
You do make a good point, I hadn't thought about how Rural I-80 is.  I more or less meant more people using I-11 when it's done, attracting more passing through traffic.  I agree that most towns will nt grow that much along wherever I-11 would go.  I do wonder though if it would be considered an Alternative for I-5 in California.  But it would have to connect to the Pacific Northwest to do that.

But given how rural US 95 and US 93 are in Nevada would building a new Freeway be a hard sell? 

Having said that, it would be neat to be able to see a new Interstate come to life in my life, as I wasn't even alive when the original Interstates were built. 

Removed excess quoting. --Roadfro

roadfro

Quote from: Interstate Trav on October 31, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
But given how rural US 95 and US 93 are in Nevada would building a new Freeway be a hard sell? 

Yes. Neither one of these highways is currently divided or four lanes outside of Clark County, except through towns. Without looking at them, I can tell you that current traffic counts do not support a freeway facility along any rural north/south highway in Nevada.

This isn't to say that if you build such an interstate that it wouldn't get used--there's a very wide north/south interstate gap between I-5 and I-15 that Nevada officials would love to fill. But in looking at the grand scheme of travel demands and such, the cost of such improvements would likely far outweigh the benefits.

I think you could 4-lane much of US 95 and US 93 through Nevada and better serve travel demands for the next 20+ years than you would building one interstate (that's pure, semi-informed speculation on my part).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

mgk920

Even without a full upgrade to an 'I-11', I would think it advisable to at least assemble a single 'no intersection turns' highway corridor between the Las Vegas and the Reno-Carson City areas.

Also, I would run such a corridor through the East Walker River valley west of Walker Lake, NV and south of Yerington to feed into I-580 via US 395 from the south - it is a much more direct routing than the others and it includes Carson City (the state capitol, BTW) in the corridor.

Mike

kkt

Quote from: mgk920 on November 01, 2012, 11:24:38 AM
Even without a full upgrade to an 'I-11', I would think it advisable to at least assemble a single 'no intersection turns' highway corridor between the Las Vegas and the Reno-Carson City areas.

Also, I would run such a corridor through the East Walker River valley west of Walker Lake, NV and south of Yerington to feed into I-580 via US 395 from the south - it is a much more direct routing than the others and it includes Carson City (the state capitol, BTW) in the corridor.

Mike

The question is whether there's more traffic from Las Vegas to Carson City and Reno, or more traffic from Las Vegas to Boise and the Tri Cities.  If this route needs to be developed at all, it might be better off going more nearly N-S, with a branch from Fallon to Fernley to accommodate Reno traffic.

NE2

Vegas to Boise? Traffic? Bahahahahaha.

Seriously, the only sensible way to build a four-lane route northwest from Vegas is to send it over to US 395 as soon as possible and take advantage of California's work.

And then push it through Kings Canyon or Yosemite Valley for a direct route to Frisco.


PS: Vegas to Boise traffic would sure as hell not go up US 95. US 93 is over 100 miles shorter.

PPS: Why isn't SR 318 part of US 93?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

agentsteel53

Quote from: NE2 on November 01, 2012, 02:09:10 PM
Vegas to Boise? Traffic? Bahahahahaha.

especially given that 15-84 is already a well-established corridor.   

I tend to drive 15-395-167-359-95-55-84 between San Diego and Boise (I have surprising amounts of business in that area of Idaho) and there are lots of sections where I'm doing 90mph because there is absolutely nobody else on the road.  US-95 in Oregon is extremely desolate.

QuoteSeriously, the only sensible way to build a four-lane route northwest from Vegas is to send it over to US 395 as soon as possible and take advantage of California's work.

I'd utilize the NV-208 corridor.  that would give I-11 a big swinging S curve, just like I-25 in New Mexico, but such are the mountains.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

NE2

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 01, 2012, 02:13:49 PM
I'd utilize the NV-208 corridor.  that would give I-11 a big swinging S curve, just like I-25 in New Mexico, but such are the mountains.
I was thinking something more like US 6-SR 120 (only 30 miles longer than via Fallon on the current indirect routing of 120) or maybe even farther south. But if there's not enough traffic for four lanes, which is likely, the shorter route will remain fastest and this will be a bunch of pork.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

agentsteel53

that would work.  and certain parts of CA-120 are surprisingly flat.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

kkt

Quote from: NE2 on November 01, 2012, 02:09:10 PM
Vegas to Boise? Traffic? Bahahahahaha.

I always aim to entertain.  Boise, also Pullman and Spokane.  If it went as far north as Lewiston it would be a lower-elevation route across the Cascades; I-84 between La Grande and Pendleton gets dicy sometimes.

However, I'm just tossing out ideas. I'm still skeptical that this or any part of I-11 north of Las Vegas is justified.

Quote
Seriously, the only sensible way to build a four-lane route northwest from Vegas is to send it over to US 395 as soon as possible and take advantage of California's work.

And then push it through Kings Canyon or Yosemite Valley for a direct route to Frisco.

Frisco?  That's a little town in Texas, isn't it?

Seriously, there's no way in hell anyone's going to go for putting an interstate through King's Canyon or Yosemite.  Even if they weren't national parks, the mountains are high and rugged and subject to snow for much of the year.  Any gas you save by going a shorter distance would be used up by going up the mountain.  If you want a shorter trip from Las Vegas to San Francisco, finish upgrading CA-58 to a freeway as far as I-5.

Quote
PS: Vegas to Boise traffic would sure as hell not go up US 95. US 93 is over 100 miles shorter.

You're right, it would be a compromise between making a shorter trip for Las Vegas-Carson City-Reno and Las Vegas-Boise and Boise-Pullman-Spokane.  And probably satisfy none of them very well.

Quote
PPS: Why isn't SR 318 part of US 93?

Maybe US-93 is the original route and stayed there when NV-318 was built?

NE2

Quote from: kkt on November 02, 2012, 06:40:29 PM
Seriously, there's no way in hell anyone's going to go for putting an interstate through King's Canyon or Yosemite.

You haven't spent enough time in Alanland fictional highwayland.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

kkt

Quote from: NE2 on November 02, 2012, 06:45:07 PM
Quote from: kkt on November 02, 2012, 06:40:29 PM
Seriously, there's no way in hell anyone's going to go for putting an interstate through King's Canyon or Yosemite.

You haven't spent enough time in Alanland fictional highwayland.

It's interesting to think about highways that could be built someday and where they might make sense.  Highways that would need an alternate universe to be built, not so interesting, at least to me.



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