North Carolina

[74/171FAN]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely-east west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

I-40 was originally supposed to end at I-85 in Greensboro.

The original plan for Interstate 40 concluded the route east at I-85 in central Greensboro. This changed in 1968, with a proposed extension of I-40 eastward to Interstate 95. However there was some difficulty in determining which route I-40 would ultimately take. The state first petitioned for the Interstate 40 freeway to follow U.S. 70 from Raleigh-Durham east to Morehead City in 1962. Although that plan was rejected, U.S. 70 eventually was upgraded to freeway and expressway standards from 2000 onward, and ultimately became a part of the Interstate 42 corridor.

[tolbs17]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely-east west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

I-40 was originally supposed to end at I-85 in Greensboro.

The original plan for Interstate 40 concluded the route east at I-85 in central Greensboro. This changed in 1968, with a proposed extension of I-40 eastward to Interstate 95. However there was some difficulty in determining which route I-40 would ultimately take. The state first petitioned for the Interstate 40 freeway to follow U.S. 70 from Raleigh-Durham east to Morehead City in 1962. Although that plan was rejected, U.S. 70 eventually was upgraded to freeway and expressway standards from 2000 onward, and ultimately became a part of the Interstate 42 corridor.

The growth of the Triangle definitely warranted an extension of I-40 so they did that, so it definitely makes sense of why they extended it east of Greensboro... And then after the Triangle's growth, they extended it to Wilmington. And then Wilmington started booming... Taking it to Morehead City as opposed to Wilmington would have definitely been a lot more work that needed to be done.

But now I-42 is being built, which is part of the original I-40 proposal!

[sprjus4]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely-east west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

Because I-85 was the only interstate there for a long time... I-40 was only extended over in the 1980s.

[dfilpus]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

For years, I-40 East ended in Greensboro and there was a gap from there to Chapel Hill. When I-40 was finally connected to I-85 near Hillsborough, NCDOT added the I-40 shields but did not renumber the exits.

[jdunlop]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

I'm not quite old enough to be there at the time, but I believe it's because I-85 was the older road.  So, I believe the logic was not to change the exit numbers once I-40 was extended in Orange County to finally connect to the segment in Research Triangle/Raleigh.  Before the extension in 1987, I-40 essentially ended at I-85 in Greensboro (even if it was co-signed before that.)

[architect77]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

I'm not quite old enough to be there at the time, but I believe it's because I-85 was the older road.  So, I believe the logic was not to change the exit numbers once I-40 was extended in Orange County to finally connect to the segment in Research Triangle/Raleigh.  Before the extension in 1987, I-40 essentially ended at I-85 in Greensboro (even if it was co-signed before that.)

And it ended at Raleigh's I-440 Beltline!. I think that's why Wade Ave looks like an interstate, because before I-40 was built South of Downtown Raleigh it came to the Beltline/ Cameron Village location as its terminus.

I drove the airport shuttle for the North Raleigh Hilton in college, and I-40 was only 3 lanes each direction from Raleigh to RTP.  I remember picking up some middle aged woman from Madison Wisconsin who was intimidated by how "big" the Triangle was just based on the 3 lane I-40 traffic volume was.

No one ever talks about it but that stretch needs a concrete median barrier

[Dirt Roads]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

By the way, I-40 was not the dominant freeway at the east end of the multiplex between Greensboro and Efland until recently.  Even today, the AADT on I-40 east of Efland is less than 15% higher than I-85 east of Efland.  I-40 doesn't turn into the dominant route until after picking up rush hour traffic off of NC-86 from the northern part of Chapel Hill.

There's also the question about which side of the split picks up the RTP traffic.  When I worked in The Park about 15 years ago, I would take I-85 to work and I-40 back home (even though both of those routing carried more traffic) simply because the traffic was more predictable and less chaotic.  Right now, most of the RTP traffic is going down the I-40 side of the split but that wasn't the case before the Durham East End Bypass project (I-885) started.  The extra congestion due to construction on the Durham Freeway has forced most of the RTP traffic over onto I-40.  I suspect that most of the RTP traffic will not return to I-85 and the Durham Freeway, and even if it does, it will return to the I-40 side once the widening project (which st-st-st-still hasn't started) is complete.

If we take a lunar view of both I-40 and I-85, the traffic between Raleigh and Wilmington is about the same as it is on I-85 approaching the Virginia state line.  But the traffic between Greensboro and Charlotte is much heavier than the traffic between Winston-Salem and Statesville (as well as much heavier than I-95 in its entirety).  So from NCDOT's perspective, I-85 is still the dominant route in the entire state.

[wdcrft63]

I'm not quite old enough to be there at the time, but I believe it's because I-85 was the older road.  So, I believe the logic was not to change the exit numbers once I-40 was extended in Orange County to finally connect to the segment in Research Triangle/Raleigh.  Before the extension in 1987, I-40 essentially ended at I-85 in Greensboro (even if it was co-signed before that.)

And it ended at Raleigh's I-440 Beltline!. I think that's why Wade Ave looks like an interstate, because before I-40 was built South of Downtown Raleigh it came to the Beltline/ Cameron Village location as its terminus.

I drove the airport shuttle for the North Raleigh Hilton in college, and I-40 was only 3 lanes each direction from Raleigh to RTP.  I remember picking up some middle aged woman from Madison Wisconsin who was intimidated by how "big" the Triangle was just based on the 3 lane I-40 traffic volume was.

No one ever talks about it but that stretch needs a concrete median barrier

I moved to the Triangle in 1987; at that time Wade Avenue outside the Beltline was commonly called "I-40" and for years an I-40 shield  could be seen on Wade Avenue just west of what is now I-440.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

And it ended at Raleigh's I-440 Beltline!. I think that's why Wade Ave looks like an interstate, because before I-40 was built South of Downtown Raleigh it came to the Beltline/ Cameron Village location as its terminus.

I drove the airport shuttle for the North Raleigh Hilton in college, and I-40 was only 3 lanes each direction from Raleigh to RTP.  I remember picking up some middle aged woman from Madison Wisconsin who was intimidated by how "big" the Triangle was just based on the 3 lane I-40 traffic volume was.

No one ever talks about it but that stretch needs a concrete median barrier

^ This. I figured one would go in after that truck crossed over and resulted in a fiery, fatal wreck in 2007, but oh well.

https://www.wral.com/news/local/video/1643560/

[tolbs17]

And it ended at Raleigh's I-440 Beltline!. I think that's why Wade Ave looks like an interstate, because before I-40 was built South of Downtown Raleigh it came to the Beltline/ Cameron Village location as its terminus.

I drove the airport shuttle for the North Raleigh Hilton in college, and I-40 was only 3 lanes each direction from Raleigh to RTP.  I remember picking up some middle aged woman from Madison Wisconsin who was intimidated by how "big" the Triangle was just based on the 3 lane I-40 traffic volume was.

No one ever talks about it but that stretch needs a concrete median barrier

^ This. I figured one would go in after that truck crossed over and resulted in a fiery, fatal wreck in 2007, but oh well.

https://www.wral.com/news/local/video/1643560/

When the express lanes come, it will all change I'm sure. Definitely a risky drive through without one and yet it's one of the busiest highways in the state.

I-40 between NC 147 and Wade Avenue, the interchanges currently being rebuilt will accommodate 12 through lanes so it would be 8 GP lanes and 4 managed lanes or 10 GP lanes and 2 managed lanes.

[tolbs17]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

If we take a lunar view of both I-40 and I-85, the traffic between Raleigh and Wilmington is about the same as it is on I-85 approaching the Virginia state line.  But the traffic between Greensboro and Charlotte is much heavier than the traffic between Winston-Salem and Statesville (as well as much heavier than I-95 in its entirety).  So from NCDOT's perspective, I-85 is still the dominant route in the entire state.

Which is why NCDOT focused on widening I-85 first.

I-40 was widened to 8 lanes between NC-147 and Wade Avenue sometime in 1989. Growth pushed for that to happen.

I-85 was widened from the I-285 split to the I-85 connector (in Charlotte) interchange in various segments.

The first one was done from China Grove to Salisbury which was roughly completed in 2001.

Second was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to the I-85 connector interchange which was completed in roughly 2004 or 2005 I think.

Third was from Salisbury to Spencer which was completed in 2007.

Fourth was from Spencer (over the Yadkin River) to the I-285 split (or I-85 business). Which was completed in 2013.

Fifth was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to NC-73 which was completed in 2014.

Sixth was from the NC 73 interchange to the Rowan County line which was completed in 2018.

And last but not least, was from the Rowan County line to China Grove which was completed in 2020 believe if I'm not mistaken.

There's still 3 more segments that need to be widened which is around Gastonia, to the South Carolina line, and then from I-40 to the Durham County line. After those are done, it will be a while before I-85 gets any more improvements now.

They turned attention onto widening the oldest sections of I-95 and the overpopulated areas of I-40 which urban sprawl caused to happen.

[architect77]

"and

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

If we take a lunar view of both I-40 and I-85, the traffic between Raleigh and Wilmington is about the same as it is on I-85 approaching the Virginia state line.  But the traffic between Greensboro and Charlotte is much heavier than the traffic between Winston-Salem and Statesville (as well as much heavier than I-95 in its entirety).  So from NCDOT's perspective, I-85 is still the dominant route in the entire state.

Which is why NCDOT focused on widening I-85 first.

I-40 was widened to 8 lanes between NC-147 and Wade Avenue sometime in 1989. Growth pushed for that to happen.

I-85 was widened from the I-285 split to the I-85 connector (in Charlotte) interchange in various segments.

The first one was done from China Grove to Salisbury which was roughly completed in 2001.

Second was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to the I-85 connector interchange which was completed in roughly 2004 or 2005 I think.

Third was from Salisbury to Spencer which was completed in 2007.

Fourth was from Spencer (over the Yadkin River) to the I-285 split (or I-85 business). Which was completed in 2013.

Fifth was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to NC-73 which was completed in 2014.

Sixth was from the NC 73 interchange to the Rowan County line which was completed in 2018.

And last but not least, was from the Rowan County line to China Grove which was completed in 2020 believe if I'm not mistaken.

There's still 3 more segments that need to be widened which is around Gastonia, to the South Carolina line, and then from I-40 to the Durham County line. After those are done, it will be a while before I-85 gets any more improvements now.

They turned attention onto widening the oldest sections of I-95 and the overpopulated areas of I-40 which urban sprawl caused to happen.

the overpopulated areas of I-40 which urban sprawl caused to happen"

Sprawl will happen based on where developers acquire land and build homes.

It's unfortunate that they truly are defining the layout for metro areas with long-lasting effects.

I believe that loops contain sprawl and without them the sprawl merely follows whatever interstate  comes to town.

* * * * * * * *

For I-85, the section immediately South of Greensboro has always been 6 lanes as far back as 1991.

The I-85/40 duplex took 10 years to build and was hell. However building to the highest standards is wise. It's now over 25 years old and most of the  shoulder, overhead and blue gas/lodging/eats signs are the original ones and they look perfect after 25 years of exposure to the elements.

Those high standards are why it costs vineyards $60,000 to have NCDOT install a shoulder sign in each direction.

[jdunlop]

Here's a North Carolina road question I've always had: as for the I-40/I-85 multiplex between Greensboro and Durham, why does it use I-85's exit numbers instead of I-40's? Because that section runs largely east-west and I-40 is the default/dominant roadway at either end, that convention makes absolutely no sense. What was NCDOT's reasoning behind that state of affairs regarding the mile markers, if any?

I'm not quite old enough to be there at the time, but I believe it's because I-85 was the older road.  So, I believe the logic was not to change the exit numbers once I-40 was extended in Orange County to finally connect to the segment in Research Triangle/Raleigh.  Before the extension in 1987, I-40 essentially ended at I-85 in Greensboro (even if it was co-signed before that.)

And it ended at Raleigh's I-440 Beltline!. I think that's why Wade Ave looks like an interstate, because before I-40 was built South of Downtown Raleigh it came to the Beltline/ Cameron Village location as its terminus.

I drove the airport shuttle for the North Raleigh Hilton in college, and I-40 was only 3 lanes each direction from Raleigh to RTP.  I remember picking up some middle aged woman from Madison Wisconsin who was intimidated by how "big" the Triangle was just based on the 3 lane I-40 traffic volume was.

No one ever talks about it but that stretch needs a concrete median barrier

I am old enough to  remember "I-40" as a four-lane road.  The only official segment was between the Durham Freeway and Wade Avenue, although the "then" East-West Expressway (aka  I.L. "Buck" Dean Expressway; NC 147 came much later) in Durham, and Wade Ave in Raleigh were often erroneously called I-40.

It was widened to six lanes in 1989, IIRC, between those two points (I-40 was extended from Wade to what's now called I-440 near Rock Quarry Road circa 1982/83.)  Later, the section in Wake County was widened using a maintenance contract in the late '90s (don't remember the specific year.)  It was done outside the normal TIP project procedures.  The left lane is substandard, in that the pavement depth is not the same, and to squeeze it in, the two left lanes in each direction are 11' wide.  The metal guard rail was installed instead of a concrete median because the latter would have required drainage structures, and that didn't fit the budget of the quick widening.

The Durham segment from the airport to the Durham Freeway was widened a little bit later, and was done "properly," with full width lanes and a Jersey barrier.

The I-40 segments around Aviation Parkway and Airport Blvd. should have been brought up to standard in the projects that rebuilt (or are rebuilding) the interchanges, but that opportunity was missed.  Likewise, there's a project adding auxiliary lanes between Aviation and Harrison (I-5966), and the road should be brought up to full standards then.

[Dirt Roads]

Which is why NCDOT focused on widening I-85 first.

I-40 was widened to 8 lanes between NC-147 and Wade Avenue sometime in 1989. Growth pushed for that to happen.

I-85 was widened from the I-285 split to the I-85 connector (in Charlotte) interchange in various segments.

The first one was done from China Grove to Salisbury which was roughly completed in 2001.

Second was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to the I-85 connector interchange which was completed in roughly 2004 or 2005 I think.

Third was from Salisbury to Spencer which was completed in 2007.

Fourth was from Spencer (over the Yadkin River) to the I-285 split (or I-85 business). Which was completed in 2013.

Fifth was from the Bruton Smith Blvd interchange to NC-73 which was completed in 2014.

Sixth was from the NC 73 interchange to the Rowan County line which was completed in 2018.

And last but not least, was from the Rowan County line to China Grove which was completed in 2020 believe if I'm not mistaken.

There's still 3 more segments that need to be widened which is around Gastonia, to the South Carolina line, and then from I-40 to the Durham County line. After those are done, it will be a while before I-85 gets any more improvements now.

They turned attention onto widening the oldest sections of I-95 and the overpopulated areas of I-40 which urban sprawl caused to happen.

Being a purist, many of these projects were not true "widening projects" even though additional lanes were added.  There is a difference between increasing surge throughput (peak vphpd) in rush hour versus widening due to travel demand.  Typically, the need for additional lanes to increase surge throughput is measured using "Level of Traffic Service" (A-B-C-D-F) grades. 

[hbelkins]

First time I ever traveled that route, which would have been sometime during or after 1967 when my dad bought his '67 Impala, I-40 ended at I-85 in Greensboro. Even before all the bypasses and reroutings, there was no advance warning that you were approaching the concurrency. Suddenly there was a lot of traffic merging in and signage indicating I-85 had joined, along with a bunch of US routes.

[Dirt Roads]

First time I ever traveled that route, which would have been sometime during or after 1967 when my dad bought his '67 Impala, I-40 ended at I-85 in Greensboro. Even before all the bypasses and reroutings, there was no advance warning that you were approaching the concurrency. Suddenly there was a lot of traffic merging in and signage indicating I-85 had joined, along with a bunch of US routes.

Ahh, memories of the first adventure into Death Valley.  At least eastbound was the easy way into Death Valley, as the westbound lanes were much, much worse. 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

I'd much rather see a long collector/distributor system between the Durham Freeway and Wade Ave. that separates through traffic and local traffic than express lanes. Kind of like I-495 near Alexandria or what's being built on I-95 southbound near Fredericksburg. Basically, if you're heading westbound to the airport, you'd exit around where Wade Ave. merges and take the c/d lanes to the exit(s) instead of being in the left lane and CROSSING ALL LANES OF TRAFFIC at the last second to exit. There are too many interchanges too close together through there on top of very high volumes that lead to some crazy merges and weaves and ultimately crashes and slowdowns. Seems like it would be more effective and less complicated than express lanes that would require a bunch of bridges and separate exits, but there's probably no escaping those.

[tolbs17]

I hate to say it but a bridge is REALLY needed to go straight to Corolla. Especially from the ones that live in the Hampton Roads area without having to dump all traffic onto the Wright Memorial Bridges. That's my rant.

https://www.obxtoday.com/judge-finds-in-favor-of-ncdot-feds-on-lawsuit-attempting-to-stop-mid-currituck-bridge/

[D-Dey65]

Okay, I've got a couple of questions regarding I-95 in Northern North Carolina.

1)Is it just me, or is the segment between Exits 171 and 173 more picturesque, and exciting to drive than most rural segments of the interstate, especially going northbound?

2)Are the bridges crossing the Roanoke River entirely within Northampton County?

[kendallhart808]

Okay, I've got a couple of questions regarding I-95 in Northern North Carolina.

1)Is it just me, or is the segment between Exits 171 and 173 more picturesque, and exciting to drive than most rural segments of the interstate, especially going northbound?

2)Are the bridges crossing the Roanoke River entirely within Northampton County?

Never driven northbound on that section of 95, but apparently the bridges are indeed entirely in Northampton County.

[tolbs17]

Okay, I've got a couple of questions regarding I-95 in Northern North Carolina.

1)Is it just me, or is the segment between Exits 171 and 173 more picturesque, and exciting to drive than most rural segments of the interstate, especially going northbound?

2)Are the bridges crossing the Roanoke River entirely within Northampton County?

Answer to number 1 - not really, I mean it's nice and forested, but the Fayetteville Bypass is also a nice scenic drive too.

And number 2 is yes. Although a small portion is in Halifax county.

[architect77]

I hate to say it but a bridge is REALLY needed to go straight to Corolla. Especially from the ones that live in the Hampton Roads area without having to dump all traffic onto the Wright Memorial Bridges. That's my rant.

https://www.obxtoday.com/judge-finds-in-favor-of-ncdot-feds-on-lawsuit-attempting-to-stop-mid-currituck-bridge/

The value brought to the region from the tourism industry each year must be considered to those opposing it.

The Southern Environmental Law Center cost the state tens of millions in added expense as they sued against the new Bonner Bridge. It should be tabulated and thrown in their face everytime they sue by default every project.

They state it's poorly thought out, so they should be tasked with identifying what's bad and suggest an improvement to a new bridge plan, not for substitutes elsewhere.

The traffic is so bad in the summer that it probably has already dented that area's bottom line each season.

[fillup420]

I hate to say it but a bridge is REALLY needed to go straight to Corolla. Especially from the ones that live in the Hampton Roads area without having to dump all traffic onto the Wright Memorial Bridges. That's my rant.

https://www.obxtoday.com/judge-finds-in-favor-of-ncdot-feds-on-lawsuit-attempting-to-stop-mid-currituck-bridge/

The value brought to the region from the tourism industry each year must be considered to those opposing it.

The Southern Environmental Law Center cost the state tens of millions in added expense as they sued against the new Bonner Bridge. It should be tabulated and thrown in their face everytime they sue by default every project.

They state it's poorly thought out, so they should be tasked with identifying what's bad and suggest an improvement to a new bridge plan, not for substitutes elsewhere.

The traffic is so bad in the summer that it probably has already dented that area's bottom line each season.

The old bonner bridge was narrow and sketchy. The next big hurricane could've taken it out. It was well past time for the replacement.

[74/171FAN]

I was unable to clinch NC 97 yesterday because the Swift Creek Bridge is closed until July 2022.

Also I noticed that construction is ongoing on part of the US 158 widening around Garysburg.  I am unable to see if the routings of US 158, NC 46, and NC 186 will be affected by this project.

[Mapmikey]

I was unable to clinch NC 97 yesterday because the Swift Creek Bridge is closed until July 2022.

Also I noticed that construction is ongoing on part of the US 158 widening around Garysburg.  I am unable to see if the routings of US 158, NC 46, and NC 186 will be affected by this project.

US 158 will go to I-95 at the NC 46 interchange to bypass Weldon