Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[mvak36]

Just curious, how long is this section (Section 6)? My guess is approximately 25 miles, but I couldn't find anything online.

[abqtraveler]

Just curious, how long is this section (Section 6)? My guess is approximately 25 miles, but I couldn't find anything online.

I think you are correct, 25 miles sounds about right.

[thefro]

I think it'll end up being 26-27 miles depending on where they cut through for the interchange with I-465.

Remember, Section 5 ends right after the Indian Creek bridge south of Martinsville (before Old SR 37).

[abqtraveler]

I think it'll end up being 26-27 miles depending on where they cut through for the interchange with I-465.

Remember, Section 5 ends right after the Indian Creek bridge south of Martinsville (before Old SR 37).

Speaking of the I-465 interchange, that will be the most expensive part of Section 6.  I speculate that completing I-69 to I-465 will force INDOT to widen I-465 around the south side of Indianapolis (assuming it routes I-69 along the south and east legs of 465).  Right now I-465 is 3 lanes in each direction from I-65 to at least the SR-37 interchange; I ended up getting stuck in traffic on that section last summer driving from Fort Wayne to Mt. Vernon, Illinois. 

[bmeiser]

After Emerson it's 3 lanes all the way to 70 on the east side. Might force them to add another lane there too.

[silverback1065]

This will be good for the south side, I don't know how traffic flows down there on 465, but the south side is often ignored when it comes to highway construction (up until recently).

[tdindy88]

I noticed this on INDOT's website for Section 6 last night, detailing options of the three alternatives for I-69 along SR 37.

http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69S6_RPT_PASR_AppF%281%29.pdf

Exits are located in the usual spots: SR 39, SR 44 & 252, Henderson Ford Rd, SR 144/CR 144, Smith Valley, County Line, Southport and I-465, plus a couple showing exits for Ohio Street in Martinsville.

All options seem to show six lanes for I-69 north of SR 144 and eight lanes north of Southport, and new in this discussion, five lanes each side for I-465 from roughly Mann Road east to US 31, covering the exit with I-69. I figure the exit descriptions and all are subject to change as things progress but it should at least give us something to mull over.

[silverback1065]

I noticed this on INDOT's website for Section 6 last night, detailing options of the three alternatives for I-69 along SR 37.

http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69S6_RPT_PASR_AppF%281%29.pdf

Exits are located in the usual spots: SR 39, SR 44 & 252, Henderson Ford Rd, SR 144/CR 144, Smith Valley, County Line, Southport and I-465, plus a couple showing exits for Ohio Street in Martinsville.

All options seem to show six lanes for I-69 north of SR 144 and eight lanes north of Southport, and new in this discussion, five lanes each side for I-465 from roughly Mann Road east to US 31, covering the exit with I-69. I figure the exit descriptions and all are subject to change as things progress but it should at least give us something to mull over.

Good to see the SR 252 exit back, it was removed a while ago from previous proposals.  I'm not sure why 37 is shown as still splitting off 69 to tie into harding st.  They should remove the curved section and make harding street a straight segment and remove the curve all together,  all movements would be preserved by going to the interchange at 465.

[lordsutch]

I'm not sure why 37 is shown as still splitting off 69 to tie into harding st.  They should remove the curved section and make harding street a straight segment and remove the curve all together,  all movements would be preserved by going to the interchange at 465.

It probably simplifies the construction staging to keep access to/from Harding Street. You can also save a bit of money by not needing as complex an interchange at I-465 - if you look at alternatives C-2 and C-3, which eliminate the direct connection between I-69 and Harding Street (although they do maintain the angled part down to Epler Avenue), you have to add some split ramps etc. to avoid serious mainline weaving since otherwise the interchanges would be too close together.

Also of interest in the designs: option C-1 uses a diverging diamond at Southport Road, and is also the most roundabout-happy design, using them at 3 interchanges.

[mgk920]

I noticed this on INDOT's website for Section 6 last night, detailing options of the three alternatives for I-69 along SR 37.

http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/I69S6_RPT_PASR_AppF%281%29.pdf

Exits are located in the usual spots: SR 39, SR 44 & 252, Henderson Ford Rd, SR 144/CR 144, Smith Valley, County Line, Southport and I-465, plus a couple showing exits for Ohio Street in Martinsville.

All options seem to show six lanes for I-69 north of SR 144 and eight lanes north of Southport, and new in this discussion, five lanes each side for I-465 from roughly Mann Road east to US 31, covering the exit with I-69. I figure the exit descriptions and all are subject to change as things progress but it should at least give us something to mull over.

Good to see the SR 252 exit back, it was removed a while ago from previous proposals.  I'm not sure why 37 is shown as still splitting off 69 to tie into harding st.  They should remove the curved section and make harding street a straight segment and remove the curve all together,  all movements would be preserved by going to the interchange at 465.

I very much most like alternative C1, except that as you mention above, in the I-465 area Harding St should feed into Harding St with that entire crossover section of present-day IN 37 being vacated.  I would not object to a south-pointing half-interchange at I-69/Epler, though.  Even though there are some minor 'tweaks' that I would include in C1, the frontage and local road accesses along the rest of this part of I-69 away from I-465 are the simplest and most make sense in my mind in that alternative.

I would definitely communicate your thoughts on this to InDOT.



Mike

[jhuntin1]

This will be good for the south side, I don't know how traffic flows down there on 465, but the south side is often ignored when it comes to highway construction (up until recently).

You're right about the south side being ignored. I think it's been a decade since the last major work on that part of 465 was done.

My morning commute is too early to see major traffic, but in the afternoons it's pretty congested from where the I-70 ramps merge with the south/eastbound lanes until after Mann Road. There may be a let-up there, but it's often congested through to Harding Street. Going both ways the Harding St. exits are really busy -- they could really use a 1/2 mile or more exit only lane to relieve the stress on the right two lanes of through traffic. So many trucks exit there because of the major truck stop (formally stops, the Flying J burned down two weeks ago) that things slow down. The US-31 ramps are fairly smooth, but depending on the time of day the traffic may be backed up on the ramps for southbound 31. That's where I exit, so I'm not sure about the rest of the way, but I do know that times I've had to drive farther east that the traffic slows around I-65 until after the ramps merge.

I agree with a poster above that I-465 will need major upgrades on the south side to handle the new traffic the I-69 extension will bring. INDOT rebuilt the Harding St. interchanges a few years ago and they're still underpowered.

[silverback1065]

I don't understand why they never made Harding Street more than just a diamond. They also need to remove all the entrance ramps that dump you in the fast lane with almost 0' of merging.
They should also sign SR 135 on the east St exit.

[bmeiser]

They also need to remove all the entrance ramps that dump you in the fast lane with almost 0' of merging.
They should also sign SR 135 on the east St exit.

I was surprised they didn't do something about that left-lane entrance ramp from I-65 when they re-did the rest of that interchange a couple years ago.

[silverback1065]

They also need to remove all the entrance ramps that dump you in the fast lane with almost 0' of merging.
They should also sign SR 135 on the east St exit.

I was surprised they didn't do something about that left-lane entrance ramp from I-65 when they re-did the rest of that interchange a couple years ago.

I think they were, but cut it to save money, the current construction by even their admission was only solving half the problem.

[tdindy88]

Well that's because they didn't rebuild the REST of the interchange, only the two movements from south I-65 to east I-465. I will admit that has helped from the past and while I can also say that Southsiders haven't been loved by INDOT forever, those commuting along I-65 might disagree. I read an article for Fox 59 a while back that stated that those left-hand exits and entrances at I-65 and US 31 along with the exit at 865 are the only reasons that I-465 still has a 55 MPH speed limit for the entire way around the beltway. SMH

These are the same people who rebuilt the Sherman Drive bridge in five years by the way.

Never thought about the SR 135 mention, but it couldn't hurt. Signage along that southern stretch of 465 from I-70 to I-65 is still old button-copy, presumably INDOT will update it someday and maybe that would be the time to include a "TO SR 135" mention.

As for the diamond interchange at Exit 4, I would guess the truck stops were the reason the exit wouldn't be rebuilt. That's the same reason I-69 isn't being routed up that way and is instead meeting I-465 a little to the west. Speaking of which, I wonder if the rebuild of Flying J is in limbo because of that. I think there's room for most of the property, but all of it?

And I will certainly concur with a need to make Harding Street run seamlessly with its two-lane counterpart to the south, considering traffic counts will be much lower south of Epler. But ramps connecting to Epler from the south wouldn't hurt. I suppose if nothing else they'll make sure that you can reach the Harding exit from the ramp system connecting I-69 to I-465.

Finally, looking at at the proposed exits for Southport and I-69. Why couldn't there be a folded diamond interchange with ramps in the northeast and southwest quadrants of that intersection. The ramps on the northeast side could connect with a stoplight at Winslet Blvd and the ramps on the southwest side could connect with one of the access roads into the commercial development on the northwest quadrant. I wouldn't say that nothing doesn't get destroyed this way (the BP station probably still goes) but I think it would do less damage. Otherwise that's it.

[silverback1065]

I remember that same news report and called bullshit on that. I don't believe those reasons why it is 55mph, noone goes that speed to begin with, and it hasn't been a problem.

[2trailertrucker]

Well that's because they didn't rebuild the REST of the interchange, only the two movements from south I-65 to east I-465. I will admit that has helped from the past and while I can also say that Southsiders haven't been loved by INDOT forever, those commuting along I-65 might disagree. I read an article for Fox 59 a while back that stated that those left-hand exits and entrances at I-65 and US 31 along with the exit at 865 are the only reasons that I-465 still has a 55 MPH speed limit for the entire way around the beltway. SMH

These are the same people who rebuilt the Sherman Drive bridge in five years by the way.

Never thought about the SR 135 mention, but it couldn't hurt. Signage along that southern stretch of 465 from I-70 to I-65 is still old button-copy, presumably INDOT will update it someday and maybe that would be the time to include a "TO SR 135" mention.

As for the diamond interchange at Exit 4, I would guess the truck stops were the reason the exit wouldn't be rebuilt. That's the same reason I-69 isn't being routed up that way and is instead meeting I-465 a little to the west. Speaking of which, I wonder if the rebuild of Flying J is in limbo because of that. I think there's room for most of the property, but all of it?

And I will certainly concur with a need to make Harding Street run seamlessly with its two-lane counterpart to the south, considering traffic counts will be much lower south of Epler. But ramps connecting to Epler from the south wouldn't hurt. I suppose if nothing else they'll make sure that you can reach the Harding exit from the ramp system connecting I-69 to I-465.

Finally, looking at at the proposed exits for Southport and I-69. Why couldn't there be a folded diamond interchange with ramps in the northeast and southwest quadrants of that intersection. The ramps on the northeast side could connect with a stoplight at Winslet Blvd and the ramps on the southwest side could connect with one of the access roads into the commercial development on the northwest quadrant. I wouldn't say that nothing doesn't get destroyed this way (the BP station probably still goes) but I think it would do less damage. Otherwise that's it.

While at the truck show in Louisville today, I asked someone from Pilot/Flying J about the Indy situation. He told me they will reopen the fuel pumps shortly, then rebuild "bigger and better" the store and restaurant. He seemed pretty sure of himself. I asked him about I 69/SR 37 announcement, but he got distracted by someone else.

[I-39]

So when would construction start on Section 6?

Also, what is going on with the I-69 bridge over the Ohio River?

[2trailertrucker]

I believe the tentative start is 2020 with completion of 2027.

[I-39]

I believe the tentative start is 2020 with completion of 2027.

7 years to upgrade the existing SR 37 to interstate standards? Other than the system interchange with I-465, isn't it following the existing SR 37? I don't see why it would take that long (other than building the system interchange with I-465).

[tdindy88]

The conversion of US 31 in Hamilton County from a four-lane expressway to a freeway was about five years, but Section 6 is a bit longer in distance.

[mvak36]

The conversion of US 31 in Hamilton County from a four-lane expressway to a freeway was about five years, but Section 6 is a bit longer in distance.

I was thinking it would be 3 to 4 years at most similar to section 5.

[silverback1065]

I believe the tentative start is 2020 with completion of 2027.

7 years to upgrade the existing SR 37 to interstate standards? Other than the system interchange with I-465, isn't it following the existing SR 37? I don't see why it would take that long (other than building the system interchange with I-465).

there is absolutely nothing done on this route, no design, no companies picked, nothing.  The permits and environmental must be done at this point, but the design will take time, and construction. And remember they don't have the funds yet. So yes, I buy their 2020 estimate.

[seicer]

It wasn't "3 to 4 years" with Section 5 - or any section. Preparing an alignment, conducting an EIS/amended EIS, acquiring ROW and then construction has been ongoing for years. Upgrading an existing facility requires the same steps - and can take longer to complete since you have to work with traffic that is using the facility.

[mvak36]

It wasn't "3 to 4 years" with Section 5 - or any section. Preparing an alignment, conducting an EIS/amended EIS, acquiring ROW and then construction has been ongoing for years. Upgrading an existing facility requires the same steps - and can take longer to complete since you have to work with traffic that is using the facility.

I was talking about just the construction. It seems to me that 7 years is a long time to construct that last section. Just my opinion.