I-69 Ohio River Bridge

[Grzrd]

This article reports that, with the Vision Plan in place, Henderson is now working on the Comprehensive Plan, which can be viewed as the "road map" for implementing the Vision Plan:

The Henderson City-County Planning Commission is going to do a little crystal-gazing Sept. 14, and would like the public's assistance in laying the foundation for future land-use decisions.

.... The article also suggests that I-69's route around Henderson should be finalized in 2016

This TV video

Interesting, so the northern end is no longer at Green River but at Weinbach.  Shorter route, makes more sense, but now it's right there at the 41 bridges, making them that much more attractive.

This article reports that that the final route will not be known for at least two to three years because the updated Environmental Impact Statement ("EIS") process has not started:

The Henderson City-County Planning Commission's future land use map shows large areas of the western part of the county being used for parks and recreation. But what it doesn't yet show is where Interstate 69 is going to cross the Ohio River.
Monday's workshop by the Planning Commission largely focused on Interstate 69, but the upshot was to discuss it further at the Oct. 6 meeting ....
"Nothing we do here actually changes the zoning,"  said Amy Williams, the consultant helping draft an updated Comprehensive Plan, of which the map is a part. But she noted the future land use map will come into play if a rezoning is requested.
"If you ask for a rezoning, that's what it ought to be rezoned to."
She quickly moved on to I-69. "The chapter on I-69 won't be done until 2016,"  she said. "We're waiting on the assigned route,"  said city-county Planner Brian Bishop.
"It won't be next year because the updated environmental impact statement won't even be started,"  said Brad Schneider, president and CEO of Kyndle. "It might take two or three years to determine this route."
The route earlier suggested by the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet would split off the Pennyrile Parkway, cross Kentucky 351 between Graham Hill and Zion, cross U.S. 60 between Pleasantview and Broadview subdivisions, and cross the Ohio River downstream of the Green River.
An organization called BridgeLink has come up with a much cheaper alternative. "It goes around the east side of town, but it cuts a much closer path to town and intersects with the existing roadway much sooner,"  said Schneider.
The question the Planning Commission wrestled with was which route to place on the future land use map.
"I'm just leery of the Planning Commission making decisions on rezonings ... based on an estimated route,"  Bishop said.
"I wouldn't base your land uses on that right now,"  Williams said.

It seems like they would be better served by starting the EIS process now and developing the Comprehensive Plan after the final route has been determined.

[Grzrd]

Here is a snip of the map of BridgeLink's suggested alternative from the article:

This article reports that that the final route will not be known for at least two to three years because the updated Environmental Impact Statement ("EIS") process has not started:

"We're waiting on the assigned route,"  said city-county Planner Brian Bishop.
"It won't be next year because the updated environmental impact statement won't even be started,"  said Brad Schneider, president and CEO of Kyndle. "It might take two or three years to determine this route."  ....
An organization called BridgeLink has come up with a much cheaper alternative. "It goes around the east side of town, but it cuts a much closer path to town and intersects with the existing roadway much sooner,"  said Schneider.

I recently looked at the Proposed I-69 Route Page at hendersonplanning.org and noticed that it has a link to a January, 2014 I-69 SIU 4 in Henderson County Feasibility Study that KYTC prepared. The above map, which presents the alternative favored by BridgeLink, came from that study (p. 66/82 of pdf; p. 47 of document).  BridgeLink's favored alternative is known as Alternative 1a and here is a snip from another map of it (p. 51/82 of pdf; p. 32 of document):



Some light reading for anyone who is interested, even though it is not the requisite environmental study.

[Grzrd]

I would not be surprised if the older of the two US 41 spans would be closed to vehicular traffic after the I-69 bridge opens.  Since that span is already over 80 years old, I am not sure how many more years of useful life it will have left without prohibitive maintenance costs.

Both bridges got an extensive rehab about six years ago. They shouldn't need anything major for a long, long time.

Which is why they should be used for I-69.

This TV video reports on a Sept. 8 meeting in Evansville about the future of the I-69 Ohio River bridge, during which it appears that the participants want to keep the U.S. 41 Twin Bridges as a free option for local traffic and have the burden of possible tolls for the I-69 bridge fall primarily on truck through traffic

a January, 2014 I-69 SIU 4 in Henderson County Feasibility Study that KYTC prepared .... BridgeLink's favored alternative is known as Alternative 1a .

An interesting aspect of the January, 2014 Feasibility Study is that all of the alternatives except for Alternative 1a would involve closing the Twin Bridges and building a new bridge (p. 18/82 of pdf; p. ES11 of document):

In this Feasibility Study, seven alternatives and some variations were examined at the concept level. All but one of these alternatives (1a) would close the existing US 41 twin bridges over the Ohio River northeast of Henderson and construct a new bridge.

The goals of the Feasibility Study were identified as follows (p. 21/82 of pdf; p. 2 of document):

The following goals were identified for the project Feasibility Study:
* Provide for a single river crossing for US 41 and I-69.
* Shorten the project from its original concept so that as much of the existing Breathitt Parkway and US 41 are used for the future I-69 as possible.
* Provide access from I-69 to the businesses along US 41.

After looking at the comments from the September 8 Evansville meeting and seeing BridgeLink's favored alternative, it seems like the notion of closing the Twin Bridges and having a single crossing I-69 bridge is a non-starter for most people.

[Grzrd]

This was great news to hear.  Kentucky Governor Bevin both confirmed his commitment to I-69 and specifically announced during his first State of the Commonwealth speech his intention to dedicate millions of dollars towards accelerating Kentucky's portion of the new I-69 bridge and roadway over the Ohio River.
http://www.thegleaner.com/news/bevin-road-plan-includes-millions-in-new-money-for-i-69-bridge-project-2a53b7b1-f655-3c52-e053-01000-366760241.html

On Wednesday, the state released hard copies of the proposed road plan. As BridgeLink requested, the money for the environmental study was moved forward to 2017.
The plan calls for $2.82 million to be allocated in 2017 for the environmental study but then goes on to call for $41 million for the project, spread out over three years, starting in 2019, to "develop alignment for Interstate 69 Henderson/Evansville Ohio River crossing."
The project would receive $6 million in 2019, $20 million in 2020 and $15 million in 2021 for preconstruction work.
"That's all new money (for the project),"

This is great news!  Now if Indiana can step up its share of the project, we may see I-69 between Indiana and Kentucky a reality much sooner.

(above quote from I-69 in KY thread)

Great news indeed!  Here is a snip from the Projects List of the 2016 Recommended Highway Plan (p. 51/119 of pdf):

This TV video reports that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin still hope to have the bridge built by 2020, and Winnecke says a new study supports a reduced cost estimate of $800 million to build the bridge:

Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke says the I-69 bridge could be a lot cheaper than first projected.
Mayor Winnecke says a new study shows the bridge could cost about $800 million. That's $600 million less than first thought.
Winnecke says this new estimate is partly based on the savings seen in St. Louis with the I-70 bridge.
"The 2008 estimate of $1.4 billion we believe is high," said Mayor Winnecke. "Now with what we've witnessed in St. Louis we really believe it's high, and so we have folks working to narrow to a more refined scope."
Mayor Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin hope to have the bridge built by the year 2020. Both expect it to be a toll bridge. However, a price to cross the bridge hasn't been revealed.

The above article linked by EngineerTM reports that Henderson Mayor Steve Austin still expects tolls to pay approximately fifty percent of the bridge's cost:

Henderson Mayor Steve Austin ....
said the money in the road plan was exciting news.
"Nothing can happen can happen until the environmental impact study is complete, so getting that will really put things on fast track," he said. "I think tolls will pay for about 50 percent (of the bridge's cost) so we'll need help from the state and federal governments, but getting that environmental study moved up is certainly important."

[Grzrd]

the Executive Summary of the 2004 Draft Environmental Impact Statement for I-69 between Evansville and Henderson. Here is a map of the Alternatives that were considered (page 13/23 of pdf; page S-13 of document):

Alternative 2 was identified as the Preferred Alternative (page 23/23 of pdf; page S-23 of document)

Steven Ross, Transportation Engineering Branch Manager at KYTC, just posted the entire Ohio River Bridge DEIS.  Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx

a January, 2014 I-69 SIU 4 in Henderson County Feasibility Study that KYTC prepared ... BridgeLink's favored alternative is known as Alternative 1a and here is a snip from another map of it (p. 51/82 of pdf; p. 32 of document):

This was great news to hear.  Kentucky Governor Bevin both confirmed his commitment to I-69 and specifically announced during his first State of the Commonwealth speech his intention to dedicate millions of dollars towards accelerating Kentucky's portion of the new I-69 bridge and roadway over the Ohio River.
http://www.thegleaner.com/news/bevin-road-plan-includes-millions-in-new-money-for-i-69-bridge-project-2a53b7b1-f655-3c52-e053-01000-366760241.html

On Wednesday, the state released hard copies of the proposed road plan. As BridgeLink requested, the money for the environmental study was moved forward to 2017.

(above quote from I-69 in KY thread)

This January 28 article reports on Kyndle CEO Brad Schneider's belief that the environmental study will focus on the above two corridors:

Kyndle CEO Brad Schneider tuned into Gov. Matt Bevin's State of the Commonwealth address Tuesday because he heard the governor might mention I-69 ....
The governor bumped up the environmental impact study on the bridge from 2018 to 2017. He also added $300,000 to the project and added $41 million for pre-construction work in years 2019-21.
Schneider thinks this signals that Bevin is going to update the environmental impact study on the old route, examine the new route and do a total revenue study that will jibe with the one done in Indiana last fall.
"That is great progress," he said. "That is a commitment and I don't think they are going to back off." ....
Schneider said he's frequently asked about where the new bridge will be built. There is not a firm answer, but Kentucky is considering two primary corridors.
A route identified in 2004 swings well east of Henderson, crosses U.S. 60, Kentucky 351 and the Audubon Parkway before hooking up at the Pennyrile Parkway just south of the Kentucky 425 bypass.
A second route was identified a few years ago and was backed by BridgeLink – a nonprofit advocacy group that is pushing for the bridge to be built by 2020. It's a less expensive option and requires less new roadway, Schneider said.
This route heads east of existing twin bridges and Ellis Park, crosses east of Audubon Park, cuts around the Braxton Park subdivision, crosses U.S. 60, then heads along the railroad line right to the U.S. 41 bypass.
"It's basically hitting right in between the Cloverleaf and the Zion Road exit," he said.

It will be interesting to see whether KYTC will be required to study additional corridors as part of the environmental process, or, in the alternative, whether information gleaned from the 2004 DEIS and the 2014 SIU 4 Henderson County Feasibility Study will allow KYTC to immediately focus on the above two corridors.

[US 41]

A while back I sent the Henderson mayor and idea that involved using the US 41 bridges. I sent this before the BridgeLinks Alt 1 came out. They may have actually used part of my idea. Here is what I sent them.

https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=P_kuh1y__g&lat=37.88232700812191&lng=-87.62328368840485&z=12&t=hybrid

[silverback1065]

why the hell would indiana go for a new terrain route?  how in the world would that be cost effective at all?

[jnewkirk77]

There's no way they'll use the existing bridges. They're too old and need too much work ... and you don't add any capacity that's really needed.

[SteveG1988]

There's no way they'll use the existing bridges. They're too old and need too much work ... and you don't add any capacity that's really needed.

Those bridges should be left as-is for local traffic, Allow 69 to just bypass both towns with that becoming 69BL.

[silverback1065]

I don't think they were ever going to use the old bridges, they need to be replaced themselves.

[Pete from Boston]

I don't think they were ever going to use the old bridges, they need to be replaced themselves.

The current ROW through Henderson would have to be rendered limited-access.  This ROW is lined with businesses.  I don't know if you've been to downtown Henderson, but it's not exactly a boomtown, and the 41 strip represents a big part of the city's retail sector (and tax base).  It would have potentially severe long-term negative impacts to Henderson to obliterate that, essentially asking the people of Henderson to pay a tremendously higher cost than anyone else for the new bridge.

As for how Indiana would go for a new-terrain route, very little of the route will be in Indiana either way.  The state line is well north of the river.  Few Indianans will be severely inconvenienced beyond having to pay for the bridge.

[silverback1065]

I don't think they were ever going to use the old bridges, they need to be replaced themselves.

The current ROW through Henderson would have to be rendered limited-access.  This ROW is lined with businesses.  I don't know if you've been to downtown Henderson, but it's not exactly a boomtown, and the 41 strip represents a big part of the city's retail sector (and tax base).  It would have potentially severe long-term negative impacts to Henderson to obliterate that, essentially asking the people of Henderson to pay a tremendously higher cost than anyone else for the new bridge.

I'm not advocating that, I'm just saying that the current 41 bridges need to be replaced, and 69 should bypass the city to the east, the 2 western bypass ideas are crazy (from Indiana's prospective)

[Pete from Boston]

I don't think they were ever going to use the old bridges, they need to be replaced themselves.

The current ROW through Henderson would have to be rendered limited-access.  This ROW is lined with businesses.  I don't know if you've been to downtown Henderson, but it's not exactly a boomtown, and the 41 strip represents a big part of the city's retail sector (and tax base).  It would have potentially severe long-term negative impacts to Henderson to obliterate that, essentially asking the people of Henderson to pay a tremendously higher cost than anyone else for the new bridge.

I'm not advocating that, I'm just saying that the current 41 bridges need to be replaced, and 69 should bypass the city to the east, the 2 western bypass ideas are crazy (from Indiana's prospective)

Oh, I don't think the western bypass ideas have been seriously considered in a long time. All the current proposals I've heard taken seriously in the past couple of years have involved bypassing the 41 strip to the east and a new interchange on the former 164 someplace between 41 and S. Green River Rd.

The most elegant alignment runs directly south from the bend in the former 164. But this also involves a lot more right-of-way to be constructed new, and that is understandably not ideal.

[ATLRedSoxFan]

It's actually too bad they can' t use the alignment where the bridges are now and just to a rebuild, but it would be cost prohibitive, and a complete nightmare diverting traffic to a temporary crossing, which again would be cost prohibitive.

[Pete from Boston]

I'm curious what kind of interchange will be built in Evansville.  Even if existing 41 were used, a full reconstruction of the current 41/69 interchange would have to happen.

[Grzrd]

A little update on the potential I-369 spur route (Audubon Parkway to Owensboro)
http://surfky.com/index.php/communities/77-owensboro-news/34218-owensboro-city-commission-hears-from-transportation-cabinet

No number for this road has been assigned. 169 makes more sense than 369

The I-69 Spur page on the Greater Owensboro Chamber of Commerce website projects a preference for I-169:

I thought it was going to be called i-369, I think I even saw it signed on google maps too

(above quote from I-69 in KY thread)

Just noticed today that the Route Log and Finder list was updated on January 27, 2016. There is a new URL as well at http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/interstate_highway_system/routefinder/index.cfm

(above quote from Updated FHWA Interstate Route Log As Of Dec. 31, 2015 thread)

I'm curious what kind of interchange will be built in Evansville.  Even if existing 41 were used, a full reconstruction of the current 41/69 interchange would have to happen.

FHWA still has 21.24 miles of I-164 on the books, even though it has been redesignated as I-69. Assuming existing 41 is not used, I-69's new routing to the east will leave a remnant of the old I-164 as part of the interchange. Since that remnant would then connect to I-69 instead of I-64, would it need to redesignated as an I-x69 instead of defaulting back to the I-164 designation?  If so, would FHWA require that it be a different number than Kentucky's future I-x69 designation for the Audubon Parkway in order to avoid confusion to the traveling public, even though the two routes, although close in proximity, are in different states?

[Pete from Boston]

There's a good chance the Evansville stub will be so short there will be no need to number the scant bit before Veterans Parkway begins.  If it's an unsigned number, it can be I-238 for all anyone is concerned.

But that aside, you do realize that what the Owensboro Chamber has on that shield is "I69," not "169," right? 

I don't think it matters what number the x69 to Owensboro might be (so long as it is different than anything as close as the Evansville stub, should that get a number), but given the way Owensboro's mayor fought all reason in order to get I-69 moved there a year or two ago, I wouldn't be too surprised to see someone there go ballistic to get the number they want, too.  Which is a little nuts, if you ask me, because this is a city with a two-room airport we're talking about.  Moonlite BBQ or no, Owensboro shouldn't carry enough weight to be calling the shots.

[vdeane]

As for how Indiana would go for a new-terrain route, very little of the route will be in Indiana either way.  The state line is well north of the river.  Few Indianans will be severely inconvenienced beyond having to pay for the bridge.

The map posted above has two alternatives to the west that both dwarf I-164 in length.

[Pete from Boston]

As for how Indiana would go for a new-terrain route, very little of the route will be in Indiana either way.  The state line is well north of the river.  Few Indianans will be severely inconvenienced beyond having to pay for the bridge.

The map posted above has two alternatives to the west that both dwarf I-164 in length.

That map above with a November, 2002 date above the legend, that is.  There has been no recent public consideration of those alignments.

[seicer]

Moonlite BBQ or no, Owensboro shouldn't carry enough weight to be calling the shots.

Out of curiosity, were you from the region? Because... Moonlite BBQ is just amazing. Owensboro is one of my favorite Kentucky towns to visit for the food (from the state, originally).

[Rothman]

Moonlite BBQ or no, Owensboro shouldn't carry enough weight to be calling the shots.

Out of curiosity, were you from the region? Because... Moonlite BBQ is just amazing. Owensboro is one of my favorite Kentucky towns to visit for the food (from the state, originally).

Wish I had known that before going through there a couple of years ago.  Looked like the place was hurting quite badly when I was there.

[Pete from Boston]

Moonlite BBQ or no, Owensboro shouldn't carry enough weight to be calling the shots.

Out of curiosity, were you from the region? Because... Moonlite BBQ is just amazing. Owensboro is one of my favorite Kentucky towns to visit for the food (from the state, originally).

No, I just visit folks in the region.  Stopped at Moonlite when catching a flight out recently.  I still have dreams about the mutton.

[hbelkins]

Moonlite is for tourists. The locals prefer another BBQ joint in Owensboro, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

[Pete from Boston]

Moonlite is for tourists. The locals prefer another BBQ joint in Owensboro, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

If that's true, then judging by the dozen or more delivery vans at Moonlite, Owensboro must be absolutely drowning in tourists getting service at their hotels.

In any case, I was a satisfied tourist.  The locals at the buffet, when they found out I was new there, gave me a hearty welcome and good advice.  It was great.

The other place must not be downtown.  On a weekday afternoon, an astounding number of businesses were closed.  For all Owensboro's talk ("Move 69 here," "Give us an x69," "Our riverfront and convention center and budget airport will knock your socks off") I was a little disappointed how little its potential-filled city center delivers.  Moonlite is the most worthwhile place I've been there. 

There is a pretty neat arty coffee shop downtown, though I feel like the patrons must vanish into the air once they walk out its doors.

[Captain Jack]

Moonlite is for tourists. The locals prefer another BBQ joint in Owensboro, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

My guess is you are thinking of Old Hickory.

On a side note, the bad blood between Evansville and Owensboro, particularly Mayor Ron has began to boil quite a bit harder. Evansville was in a tough lease negotiation with its minor league hockey team when Mayor Ron appeared out of nowhere and gave the hockey team owner, Ron Geary, the Owensboro Sportscenter. A few stips, primarily Geary has to put $6 mil into renovating it, but the arena is basically his. On the surface it seems ridiculous for a hockey team to leave a larger market with a 5 year old state of the art arena, for Owensboro and a 70 year old dump that isn't even large enough in its current state to hold hockey..but...Geary, who also owns Ellis Park, gets a new OTB parlor in Owensboro as well.

Of course, this has sent Winnecke and the city of Evansville in full batcrap mode. They are publicly working feverishly to secure a new hockey team for the Ford Center. I have a friend who works at the Evansville Airport, and he has heard that Winnecke has asked the Airport Board to make every attempt possible to lure Allegant Airlines from Owensboro to Evansville. EVV currently has three commercial airlines, American, Delta and United, while Allegant is the only commercial carrier in OWB. Allegant already markets this as (Evansville). Losing Allegant would be a huge blow to OWB.

It's really sad that these cities can't work together for the common good of the region, as Evansville and Henderson appear to do. However, Mayor Ron seems to be incapable of that, as seen with his rather moronic attempt to relocate an already completed I-69 away from Evansville.

Regardless, things should be interesting in this region for awhile.