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I-69 Ohio River Bridge

Started by truejd, August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM

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Captain Jack

The plan is still to convert the Audubon to a 3di of 69, correct?

I understand Evansville has more growth north, towards I-64, but a 3-di Audubon is about the same distance as I-164 is. It is also about the same distance as I-565 to Huntsville. Both cities are considerably larger than Owensboro, and it seems to serve them well. Columbus, GA also comes to mind.

With 69 running along the east of Evansville-Henderson, it actually may be a little shorter than I-164. Regardless, it will connect Owensboro sufficiently to the grid. Once the bridge is completed, it will also provide quicker access between Owensboro and Evansville. Maybe that is what Payne is concerned about.

As someone who has lived in this area most of my life, I have never understood the political divisiveness that exists between Owensboro, Evansville and even Henderson to a lesser extent. It almost seems competitive, especially from the Owensboro viewpoint. If the three communities would work and PLAN together for a common good, I think all three would benefit. For example, would we get better air service if an Evansville-Owensboro Int'l was built near where 69 and the Audubon-3di would intersect in Henderson County? The Tri-Cities in TN, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill and Greensboro-Winston Salem-High Point are all examples of how progressive a 3-city region can be if there is joint cooperation.


Pete from Boston

As I was saying, with even very loose ties to that area, I hear it.  There's a lot of "Why aren't we doing X?  Owensboro's doing it."  Evansville-Henderson is a significantly larger MSA and is not really what I'd call threatened by Owensboro.

hbelkins

Moving I-69 ain't gonna happen. This quote is from KYTC Secretary Mike Hancock:

Quote"The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet does not plan to reroute Interstate 69 through Owensboro.  Deviating from the congressionally designated Interstate 69 corridor would prove costly and be difficult to implement.  The routes suggested through Owensboro are not compliant with federal interstate standards, nor is it the most direct and efficient route for motorists. We appreciate Mayor Payne's input on the project, but the Cabinet will continue on the course that has been set."


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Captain Jack

Ron Payne is really serious about this nonsense. He was in Frankfort earlier in the week, and went to the Evansville Mayor's office yesterday, bringing along flyers made with a line through a red circle over Evansville-Henderson.

http://www.planning.org/news/daily/story/?story_id=195482953

http://www.courierpress.com/photos/galleries/2014/feb/13/evansville-owensboro-mayors-meet-discuss-i-69/?partner=popular

I thought he was wanting the route to follow 64 to Dale, and then upgrade 231. Instead, he is wanting a new road from Washington. I don't see how new terrain construction from Washington to Dale, along with improving 231 from Dale to Owensboro can save a billion dollars versus a new bridge. Does this clown not realize the road is already built to Evansville?

tvketchum

The good mayor should have been beating this drum years ago, before the investment Indiana made in "cementing" the current route.....

hbelkins

QuoteHenderson County Judge-Executive Hugh McCormick said Payne was "very aggressively" pushing for a dramatic I-69 route change on Tuesday in Frankfort, during a social event for local government officials and Kentucky legislators.

He was probably drunk.  :D


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Brandon

Quote from: tvketchum on February 15, 2014, 09:39:20 AM
The good mayor should have been beating this drum years ago, before the investment Indiana made in "cementing" the current route.....

I just don't see Indiana ever agreeing to a route via Owensboro.  It just does not serve what Indiana needs, and that was a route between Indy and Evansville.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Pete from Boston


Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
QuoteHenderson County Judge-Executive Hugh McCormick said Payne was "very aggressively" pushing for a dramatic I-69 route change on Tuesday in Frankfort, during a social event for local government officials and Kentucky legislators.

He was probably drunk.  :D

Eventually he's going to have realize that after a certain point this mostly just makes Owensboro look bad.

rte66man

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 15, 2014, 11:14:10 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
QuoteHenderson County Judge-Executive Hugh McCormick said Payne was "very aggressively" pushing for a dramatic I-69 route change on Tuesday in Frankfort, during a social event for local government officials and Kentucky legislators.

He was probably drunk.  :D

Eventually he's going to have realize that after a certain point this mostly just makes Owensboro look bad.

He doesn't care how he looks to anyone but Owensboro voters. He's "fighting for them" (and reelection of course).
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

US 41

Why is this guy even attempting to get I-69? Like I said, personally I feel I-69 is a huge waste of money. If a better route was needed then US 50 could've been 4 laned from Bedford-Washington. Bypasses could've even been built around Loogotee and Shoals for all I care. IMO there was already a good route from Indy-Evansville via Terre Haute. SR 641 would've helped that traffic a lot. The current route from Canada to Mexico is also shorter than the one I-69 will take them on. There is also a good route from Indy-Memphis already.
My point is that more money doesn't need to be wasted on this project.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

theline

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 15, 2014, 11:14:10 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
QuoteHenderson County Judge-Executive Hugh McCormick said Payne was "very aggressively" pushing for a dramatic I-69 route change on Tuesday in Frankfort, during a social event for local government officials and Kentucky legislators.

He was probably drunk.  :D

Eventually he's going to have realize that after a certain point this mostly just makes Owensboro look bad.
Mayor Payne has been up in Toronto, partying with Rob Ford, I'm afraid.

silverback1065

Quote from: theline on February 15, 2014, 07:31:01 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 15, 2014, 11:14:10 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
QuoteHenderson County Judge-Executive Hugh McCormick said Payne was "very aggressively" pushing for a dramatic I-69 route change on Tuesday in Frankfort, during a social event for local government officials and Kentucky legislators.

He was probably drunk.  :D

Eventually he's going to have realize that after a certain point this mostly just makes Owensboro look bad.
Mayor Payne has been up in Toronto, partying with Rob Ford, I'm afraid.

haha smoking that crack pipe in all seriousness though, why didn't this guy mention this when it actually would have been a possibility, before they built what is there now?

hbelkins

Quote from: silverback1065 on February 15, 2014, 09:00:00 PM
haha smoking that crack pipe in all seriousness though, why didn't this guy mention this when it actually would have been a possibility, before they built what is there now?

Probably wouldn't have done any good. Indiana wanted to connect Evansville to Indianapolis. Not Dale to Indy.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

tdindy88

I kind of find it funny that three posts up, the guy from Terre Haute (along with that town I believe) wants/wanted I-69 to travel through their community, and the mayor of Owensboro wants I-69 to run through his town, and instead it is Bloomington, the one community in Indiana that does not want the interstate (though many there actually are okay with it) that gets I-69.

And don't worry, I'm not 100% on board of the financial justifications for the project or the new bridge, but I look at a state map and know that one quarter of the state wasn't really covered with an interstate and that's what this project covered. On that note, I'm sure Indianapolis gives less than a crap about Owensboro, so there goes your new-terrain highway from Dale to Washington. Jasper and Huntingburg bypasses however....

theline

Quote from: tdindy88 on February 15, 2014, 09:32:17 PM
Jasper and Huntingburg bypasses however....

Mayor Payne visited the wrong city in Indiana. I'm sure E-ville's mayor dumped those brochures where they belonged, in the round file.

If Payne had visited the mayors of Jasper and Huntingburg, he likely would have found receptive ears to upgrading the hell out of 231. And that would have done Owensboro a lot more good than a bunch of crazy talk about rerouting 69. US 231 will probably never get upgraded to interstate status, but an expressway, at least to Crane, could probably be justified and would sure boost the area.

US 41

http://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=RwCTXQIxPM

I think I-69 should go to Oklahoma. Then no new bridge would be needed at all. The link above shows where I-69 should've went.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

thefro

Most of the article is behind a paywall, but Rand Paul says while in a meeting in Owensboro that he'll "look into it" if asked by Ron Payne.

http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/article_dff35132-3799-5774-8d41-09d2c30bdcde.html

QuoteU.S. Sen. Rand Paul said that if Owensboro Mayor Ron Payne asks him to look into the possibility of rerouting Interstate 69 through Owensboro, then he will do it.

US 41

#242
Maybe Owensboro could seek stimulous money from the feds to give to Indiana for the cost of the reroute.  :banghead:

Maybe they could get some more stimulous money so Kentucky can build a new freeway for I-69 from Owensboro to Madisonville.

This is my modest proposal!  :clap:
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

Grzrd

#243
Quote from: thefro on February 16, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
Most of the article is behind a paywall, but Rand Paul says while in a meeting in Owensboro that he'll "look into it" if asked by Ron Payne.
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/article_dff35132-3799-5774-8d41-09d2c30bdcde.html

Here are parts of the (behind paywall) article reporting that Rand Paul "will look into it if the mayor asks me":

Quote
U.S. Sen. Rand Paul said that if Owensboro Mayor Ron Payne asks him to look into the possibility of rerouting Interstate 69 through Owensboro, then he will do it.
Paul, a Bowling Green Republican, was in Owensboro Saturday night to attend the Bourbon Ball, a fundraiser hosted by Owensboro Rotary Club at the Owensboro Convention Center.
Paul said he had just heard about the I-69 rerouting discussions, including that the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Secretary had termed the current route "congressionally designated."
"I'm not aware that anyone has ever asked me where the roads go," Paul said
, "but I will look into it if the mayor asks me. I'm not saying I can do anything, but we can look at it."
Payne has been floating a plan that would reroute I-69 from Washington, Ind., to the William H. Natcher Bridge at Maceo, through Owensboro and toward Bowling Green using the Natcher Parkway.
That path would save about $1 billion since a new bridge would not have to be built over the Ohio River at Evansville, Payne said.
The route now being pursued would extend I-69 south from I-164, east of Ellis Park, across a new bridge to be built and then connecting with the Pennyrile Parkway south of Henderson.
Payne talked up his rerouting plan to Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke Friday, and Winnecke did not get on board.
Despite getting rebuffed by both Kentucky Transportation Secretary Mike Hancock and Winnecke, Payne said he will continue to push for officials to give the option a review. And he is continuing to push to see a study that examines the Natcher and Audubon parkways as well as the former U.S. 60 Bypass to determine what it would take to bring them up to Interstate standards.
Owensboro and Daviess County officials also have been part of a multistate movement to create a new Interstate 67 that would connect to I-69 at Washington, Ind., and then on to the Natcher bridge, following U.S. 60 into Owensboro and on to Bowling Green via the Natcher parkway and connecting to I-65.
Payne told the Messenger-Inquirer Friday that he would take either one, but he thinks I-69 is the best bet. He said Evansville officials will not support proceeding with I-67 until I-69 is built.

It simply sounds like Paul is unfamiliar with Congressionally designated corridors.

hbelkins

This all just proves my point about how anal FHWA is about Interstate standards.

The average motorist is not going to know the difference between an Interstate and one of the Kentucky parkways. Even if the medians aren't as wide on the Audubon or Natcher as they are on I-24, the Kentucky parkways are still a lot more modern than I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, Pa.

Eliminate the old toll plaza cloverleafs, stick I-xxx signs on the Audubon and Natcher, and be done with it.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Brandon

Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:41:54 AM
This all just proves my point about how anal FHWA is about Interstate standards.

The average motorist is not going to know the difference between an Interstate and one of the Kentucky parkways. Even if the medians aren't as wide on the Audubon or Natcher as they are on I-24, the Kentucky parkways are still a lot more modern than I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, Pa.

Eliminate the old toll plaza cloverleafs, stick I-xxx signs on the Audubon and Natcher, and be done with it.

I do have a stupid question, why did Kentucky build toll plazas that way?  Illinois has a similar system, toll plazas every so often, but all of them are on the mainline away from exits, not under bridges.  Even the two plazas (now moved) on I-88 west of Aurora in the middle of the interchanges were not set up under bridges with cloverleafs.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

theline

As I hear more about Mayor Payne, I get more and more convinced that he is a refugee from Alanland. :spin:

Rover_0

Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:41:54 AM
This all just proves my point about how anal FHWA is about Interstate standards.

The average motorist is not going to know the difference between an Interstate and one of the Kentucky parkways. Even if the medians aren't as wide on the Audubon or Natcher as they are on I-24, the Kentucky parkways are still a lot more modern than I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, Pa.

Eliminate the old toll plaza cloverleafs, stick I-xxx signs on the Audubon and Natcher, and be done with it.

It's more of a fictional thread idea, but I've thought for a while now that there should be a secondary tier to the Interstate system with looser standards. Substandard expressways, super-2s, and non-freeway-to-freeway interchanges could be part of this system.

I'll plan on a fictional thread for this very thing.

</tangent>
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

NE2

Quote from: Rover_0 on February 16, 2014, 07:09:55 PM
It's more of a fictional thread idea, but I've thought for a while now that there should be a secondary tier to the Interstate system with looser standards. Substandard expressways, super-2s, and non-freeway-to-freeway interchanges could be part of this system.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4397
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

hbelkins

Quote from: Brandon on February 16, 2014, 04:41:49 PM

I do have a stupid question, why did Kentucky build toll plazas that way?  Illinois has a similar system, toll plazas every so often, but all of them are on the mainline away from exits, not under bridges.  Even the two plazas (now moved) on I-88 west of Aurora in the middle of the interchanges were not set up under bridges with cloverleafs.

Kentucky charged different rates for entering/exiting the toll road vs. going straight through. For instance, the old toll booth at the KY 11 exit of the Mountain Parkway (in this case, the toll plaza was built on top of the bridge, not under it) charged 50 cents for through traffic and 25 cents for entering and exiting. There were some toll plazas on the mainline that only levied through tolls.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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