Express Lane signage study

[jakeroot]

Garden State Parkway still has coin baskets...and the toll is $1.50 at many plazas!

How long does it take to count out all those coins?

[jeffandnicole]

Garden State Parkway still has coin baskets...and the toll is $1.50 at many plazas!

How long does it take to count out all those coins?

I would imagine the people that use it are regulars and toss the coins in the basket while still moving.  They never wait for the 'Go' sign!

[jeffandnicole]

Since I finally did the survey, the only problem I noticed with the questions are the "What if" question after viewing the animation.   If I'm travelling, I can usually view a certain segment of the sign and ignore the rest.  I wouldn't need to concentrate on the entire sign.  For example, if I have an EZ Pass and there's an EZ Pass price and non-EZ Pass price, I would ignore the non-EZ Pass price as it won't apply to me.

[roadman]

Garden State Parkway still has coin baskets...and the toll is $1.50 at many plazas!

Does GSP still issue tokens?  In the days before E-ZPass, I'd keep a roll in my car - even though I only travel the road once or twice a year.

[seicer]

I wish all EZ-Pass systems would be consistent.

When my EZ-Pass transponder began to fail, I had several different encounters. I was on the road for two weeks, so having a new transponder wasn't an option since I wasn't at home to have it shipped (the only option for the Ohio Turnpike, where I purchased mine).

* The Ohio Turnpike has barriers at their booths. When it didn't go up initially, I had to get a paper ticket. At the Eastgate at the Pennsylvania border, I was able to have my transponder manually read, which showed that I entered at the correct booth. But it's use was intermittent. They were polite and let me on my way without having to pay in cash - it was deducted out of my EZ-Pass account.
* The high speed lanes in Pennsylvania worked great. Because the transponder was failing, I went ahead and went through the high speed lanes, knowing that if it didn't work - my plates would be read and my EZ-Pass account would be billed, since the two are tied together. On one instance my transponder worked; the other time, it didn't and it was deducted from my EZ-Pass manually. No biggie.
* On the New York State Thruway, it was a different story. I was able to get on fine as there were no barriers and it didn't prompt me to get a ticket. The light was green so the transponder worked. But when I got off of an exit hours later, the transponder failed although the light was green. I'm not sure what was up, but when I pulled away from the booth (which was manned as it was a combination cash/EZ-Pass booth), an individual stepped out and waved his arms. Oops. I never received an item in my EZ-Pass statement or a bill, so I'm not sure if I was ever charged.
* On a bridge over I-278 in New York City, it was a nightmare. I was not aware I was on a toll bridge until after I was on the facility, and all I had was my debit/credit cards. It's 2016 - some tolled facilities have readers, right? Not these. The booths have barriers and the barrier did not raise with my transponder. Thinking that I could have them read the transponder manually, I handed it to the individual. He was not pleased and cursed. Hey - it's not my fault the transponder failed prematurely - so for TEN minutes, I had to wait while a customer service representative came over, filled out a paper form, used a handheld device to record some car information, filled out another paper form, and then handed me an envelope for me to mail in the payment within ten days.

I think NYC's systems were some of the first implemented, correct?

[Pete from Boston]

You always have a cash option.  When you get the bill, I'm sure you are welcome to pay in cash.

[Zeffy]

Absolutely. Baloo just isn't keen on that because the E-470 Authority was late sending him a bill once.

You shouldn't need someone to remind you that you went through a tollbooth and didn't pay, unless of course you didn't intend to pay it at all until they noticed. Why wait for a bill? Go online, look up the toll agency, and find out how to send missed toll payments via mail.

[Pete from Boston]

Absolutely. Baloo just isn't keen on that because the E-470 Authority was late sending him a bill once.

You shouldn't need someone to remind you that you went through a tollbooth and didn't pay, unless of course you didn't intend to pay it at all until they noticed. Why wait for a bill? Go online, look up the toll agency, and find out how to send missed toll payments via mail.

Why not wait for a bill?

[1995hoo]

Absolutely. Baloo just isn't keen on that because the E-470 Authority was late sending him a bill once.

You shouldn't need someone to remind you that you went through a tollbooth and didn't pay, unless of course you didn't intend to pay it at all until they noticed. Why wait for a bill? Go online, look up the toll agency, and find out how to send missed toll payments via mail.

Why not wait for a bill?

In some cases, the charge is significantly higher if you wait for a bill. Virginia's HO/T lanes are the ones that come to mind immediately. They don't offer a "toll-by-plate" option and if you wait until they send you a bill, there's a $12.50 per trip surcharge (so, for example, if you drove up the I-95 lanes, then exited onto the Beltway and took its HO/T lanes to Tysons, then reversed the trip in the evening, didn't have an E-ZPass for any of those, and waited for a bill, as I understand it your invoice would include the tolls plus $50 in service charges at $12.50 times four trips, two trips each on I-95 and I-495).

Of course, in other cases you may never get a bill. I never got one from the Rickenbacker Causeway from a trip in 2011 where the signs weren't clear that they didn't take SunPass. I understand the Ontario 407 toll road may not bill many US residents. Question is, when do you roll the dice and wait for a bill and when do you take the initiative? I think my rule of thumb might be to decide based on whether there were signs offering a toll-by-plate option. If they offer that, I'd probably wait for a bill. If they didn't offer that, I'd probably assume there would be some sort of penalty and I'd look it up online.

.....that's assuming, of course, I were not a member of this forum. If I personally were faced with the scenario, I'd come here and ask whether I'd get socked with a penalty if I let the facility bill me!

[Pete from Boston]

Oh, of course.  I thought we were talking about bills mailed as part of a toll-by-plate option, in which case it's unlikely many folks know what the charge is in advance.

[Brandon]

Absolutely. Baloo just isn't keen on that because the E-470 Authority was late sending him a bill once.

You shouldn't need someone to remind you that you went through a tollbooth and didn't pay, unless of course you didn't intend to pay it at all until they noticed. Why wait for a bill? Go online, look up the toll agency, and find out how to send missed toll payments via mail.

Why not wait for a bill?

Some don't send bills, instead offering you the ability to pay online.

[Pete from Boston]

USPS vending machines dispense them.

Personally I find the dollars easy enough to distinguish by feel.  Anthony dollars I get the problem with, because they're ridged.  But golden dollars?  They don't feel like anything else unless I'm carrying some non-money tokens around.  YMMV.

[cpzilliacus]

In some cases, the charge is significantly higher if you wait for a bill. Virginia's HO/T lanes are the ones that come to mind immediately. They don't offer a "toll-by-plate" option and if you wait until they send you a bill, there's a $12.50 per trip surcharge (so, for example, if you drove up the I-95 lanes, then exited onto the Beltway and took its HO/T lanes to Tysons, then reversed the trip in the evening, didn't have an E-ZPass for any of those, and waited for a bill, as I understand it your invoice would include the tolls plus $50 in service charges at $12.50 times four trips, two trips each on I-95 and I-495).

IMO, that practice is reprehensible, and should be forbidden. 

Much better to apply a modest surcharge (25%, as suggested in the survey, or maybe as high as 50%).

Drivers using such lanes without a transponder should be encouraged to get one, not punished. 

[Pete from Boston]

If they have the ability to send you a bill because you didn't have a transponder, why did they ever need to require you to have a transponder to begin with?  That is where I find the penalty to be extortionate.

[jakeroot]

If they have the ability to send you a bill because you didn't have a transponder, why did they ever need to require you to have a transponder to begin with?  That is where I find the penalty to be extortionate.

The prime advantage seems to be in areas with variable tolls. Express lanes with discounts for HOV's are good examples, because you can switch the transponder between HOV and TOLL, perhaps avoiding a higher toll if you have the right number of people.

Solo drivers do not seem to gain anything from transponders, other than perhaps the ability to use them in other states, should neighboring states adopt the same transponder tech.

[jeffandnicole]

If they have the ability to send you a bill because you didn't have a transponder, why did they ever need to require you to have a transponder to begin with?  That is where I find the penalty to be extortionate.

Because a lot more manpower, time and money is spent to look up the license plate, get the information from that state's DMV, and mail out the invoice waiting for a check or credit card payment.  2nd & 3rd notices may be required, and the payment rate is generally under 90%.  Plus, people that have a pass and prepay permit the agency to use that money for investing purposes.

[Pete from Boston]

If they have the ability to send you a bill because you didn't have a transponder, why did they ever need to require you to have a transponder to begin with?  That is where I find the penalty to be extortionate.

Because a lot more manpower, time and money is spent to look up the license plate, get the information from that state's DMV, and mail out the invoice waiting for a check or credit card payment.  2nd & 3rd notices may be required, and the payment rate is generally under 90%.  Plus, people that have a pass and prepay permit the agency to use that money for investing purposes.

It takes a big chunk of cost out to remove the redundant parts from the front lines that accrue pensions.

The point about holding money to collect interest supports my point, IMO.

[jeffandnicole]

If they have the ability to send you a bill because you didn't have a transponder, why did they ever need to require you to have a transponder to begin with?  That is where I find the penalty to be extortionate.

Because a lot more manpower, time and money is spent to look up the license plate, get the information from that state's DMV, and mail out the invoice waiting for a check or credit card payment.  2nd & 3rd notices may be required, and the payment rate is generally under 90%.  Plus, people that have a pass and prepay permit the agency to use that money for investing purposes.

It takes a big chunk of cost out to remove the redundant parts from the front lines that accrue pensions.

The point about holding money to collect interest supports my point, IMO.

If they had to mail invoices to everyone, you would probably find toll rates prohibitively expensive.  Of the toll transactions today, much of it is automated, from the withdrawal from a debit/credit account to the toll transaction itself.  The overwhelming majority of employees on an ETC system are used for processing the small number of vehicles going thru a toll plaza that don't have a transponder.  Hundreds of additional employees would be needed if a system was all license-plate based.  More employees = more costs, raising fares for everyone.

Compare it to London's congestion pricing system, which is fully automated via license plate readers.  The cost is approximately $16 USD...if paid in advance or on that day, and if you have your tag number already registered for automatic withdrawals.  But...if you take the inititive to pay the next day, there's already a 25% surcharge.  If you wait for a bill, you have 2 weeks to pay it and the charge jumps to over $90!  After 2 weeks, pay double.  After 4 weeks, pay triple...nearly $275!!!

So, while you think the plenty of 25% is too high when billed upwards of a month later with another 30 days to pay, an existing fully automated license plate system charges over 500%.

[mrsman]

Well, I just participated in the survey.  To the extent that us roadgeeks take the survey in higher numbers than the general population, we may skew the results somewaht.   I believe we are more in tune to these types of things than the average driver.  But the goal of good signage is for the average driver, that they should know what to expect and not have a WTF moment as soon as they encounter these signs.

[Pete from Boston]

I usually pull it out and look at it.  It's just faster when I have a lot of change.

[jrouse]

Well, I just participated in the survey.  To the extent that us roadgeeks take the survey in higher numbers than the general population, we may skew the results somewaht.   I believe we are more in tune to these types of things than the average driver.  But the goal of good signage is for the average driver, that they should know what to expect and not have a WTF moment as soon as they encounter these signs.

I noticed this survey was broadcast to the general public quite a bit more than the first round, so I think the results may be a little less skewed.  I know the lead researcher on this and they are just starting to process the results.  There will be a discussion on this at an upcoming TRB conference in May.  I'll try and remember to take notes and share the findings after that.

[Hurricane Rex]

Couldn't get to the site to answer the survey.

LG-TP260

[1995hoo]

Couldn't get to the site to answer the survey.

LG-TP260

You're responding to a thread that's been dormant for over two years, so you shouldn't be surprised the survey is gone...

[Hurricane Rex]

Couldn't get to the site to answer the survey.

LG-TP260

You're responding to a thread that's been dormant for over two years, so you shouldn't be surprised the survey is gone...

I got a "trending today" message on my phone for this topic, which is why I replied with that. I didn't bother to check the dates because of the notification. I apologize for the confusion and the bumping of this.

LG-TP260