non-operational traffic light

[agentsteel53]

what the hell is the law here?  

I don't mean four-way flashing red, I mean a light that is dead dark *black*.  Does one treat it as a four-way stop, or does one blow right through?

if the former, why do drivers blow right through?  if the latter, what's preventing two drivers from blowing right through on intersecting paths and ... intersecting?

I tend to come to a full stop, observe surroundings, and go.  Even for a light that has been obviously taped over because it's not in service, I tend to be slowing down pretty hard by the time I'm close enough to note the tape.  They tend not to make it very obvious from a distance that the light is intentionally unused, as opposed to sleeping on the job.

[Bryant5493]

If the signal is blacked-out, due to a power outage, then it's supposed to be treated as a four-way stop.


Be well,

Bryant

[agentsteel53]

If the signal is blacked-out, due to a power outage, then it's supposed to be treated as a four-way stop.

yeah, but driving defensively means you have to assume that people don't know that ... because, in reality, they don't.  one of the greatest clusterfucks I've ever seen was on old 66 in Gallup NM with a traffic light out of service.  People were all assuming they had the right of way, and cutting each other off left and right.  I had to seize the moment and plow through the intersection, swerving around two cars who were doing the same thing in various other directions, or else I'd have been stuck there all day.

[froggie]

Driving defensively also means you figure people will go when they shouldn't.  Which means you should probably slow down or stop anyway at the intersection.

But Bryant is right.  The law treats a dead/dark signal as a 4-way stop unless there's a law enforcement officer there directing traffic.

[agentsteel53]

Driving defensively also means you figure people will go when they shouldn't. 

exactly - that's what I meant: people don't know that a dead light is a four-way stop, so they'll plow on through.  or, in the case of Gallup, realize that something is awry and slow down just enough to be the first one through around everyone else.

[Mr_Northside]

I almost got creamed once crossing Ohio River Blvd. to the McKees Rocks bridge.  The power was out due to a recent storm, I came to a complete stop, but some lady heading into the city on 65 had absolutely NO intention of stopping. In fact, I think she sped up (which is why it was a really close call. 
The worst part is the bitch had the nerve to honk at ME. 

[agentsteel53]

aggressive stupidity is the best kind! 

[Brandon]

We have some here that are taped over and not ready for service yet.  They are treated as a stop sign for the side street (an have a stop sign for an active side street).

[Brian556]

This reminds me of the out-of service traffic signal in the Disney movie "Cars". It flashes yellow in all four directions. Really stupid. The bad part is that the person stupid enough to make this mistake is in the movie industry and is surely filthy rich.

There are only two intersections with out of service signals that were completely dark that I have come across in my life. Both had four way stops.

[Bryant5493]

Speaking of the dark signal head, this situation occurred (sp?) to me in the last few months, two months ago or so. The major street, which is five lanes wide (four through lanes/center turn lane), and the minor street, which is three lanes at the major street (one through lane in each direction; left turn lane), had a dark signal. I was on the minor street, so I waited... and all traffic stopped. I was surprised. Then when they did, I made sure that they would stay stopped and then I entered the intersection.


Be well,

Bryant

[Mergingtraffic]

Driving defensively also means you figure people will go when they shouldn't.  Which means you should probably slow down or stop anyway at the intersection.

But Bryant is right.  The law treats a dead/dark signal as a 4-way stop unless there's a law enforcement officer there directing traffic.

Not to change the subject..
Speaking of driving defensively, that is why I hate roundabouts b/c people never YIELD, even if there are two two-pole yield signs on both sides of the road. 

[jemacedo9]

aggressive stupidity is the best kind! 

awesome line.  pure awesome.

[agentsteel53]

Not to change the subject..
Speaking of driving defensively, that is why I hate roundabouts b/c people never YIELD, even if there are two two-pole yield signs on both sides of the road. 

a yield sign, similarly to a yellow light, is an implication that maximum speed must be achieved to blast through the intersection.

[Bryant5493]

^^

How true.


Be well,

Bryant

[realjd]

There are only two intersections with out of service signals that were completely dark that I have come across in my life. Both had four way stops.

You've never driven during a power outage? Or after a storm/hurricane?

Around here, the police are usually prompt with getting officers there to direct traffic, or put up temporary stop signs if they don't have the people (and at minor intersections).

West Lafayette, IN has foldable stop signs permanently mounted at most traffic lights, so all it takes is someone to drive around and unfold them in the event of a loss of power or damage to the signal.

[Bryant5493]

West Lafayette, IN has foldable stop signs permanently mounted at most traffic lights, so all it takes is someone to drive around and unfold them in the event of a loss of power or damage to the signal.

I acutally was thinking about this, but didn't think this was actually a reality somewhere.


Be well,

Bryant

[Brandon]

West Lafayette, IN has foldable stop signs permanently mounted at most traffic lights, so all it takes is someone to drive around and unfold them in the event of a loss of power or damage to the signal.

I acutally was thinking about this, but didn't think this was actually a reality somewhere.


Be well,

Bryant

It's very common in the Chicago area for these to be installed.  Almost every signal I know of has them.

[realjd]

I acutally was thinking about this, but didn't think this was actually a reality somewhere.

I was trying to find a good shot of one on Google Maps, but apparently a student went through and photographed a number of traffic control devices in the area for a class project, so he has a good picture of one of the folding stop signs:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kallol87/CE565Photos#5316119945202215138

[Dr Frankenstein]

Many places in Quebec also have these foldable STOP signs.

[Coelacanth]

So I happened to be looking at our state (MN) drivers' manual and this it what it says:

A traffic signal with flashing reds is a stop sign.

If an intersection has a completely non-functioning signal, it is treated as an uncontrolled intersection.

Elsewhere in the manual, instructions for uncontrolled intersections are given. Approach with caution, yield to traffic from your right. No requirement to stop unless traffic warrants.

[Bryant5493]

I was trying to find a good shot of one on Google Maps, but apparently a student went through and photographed a number of traffic control devices in the area for a class project, so he has a good picture of one of the folding stop signs:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kallol87/CE565Photos#5316119945202215138

I'll be. Very interesting. Thanks for the find.


Be well,

Bryant

[agentsteel53]

If an intersection has a completely non-functioning signal, it is treated as an uncontrolled intersection.

what kind of shit law is that?  other states seem to be more sensible in that they revert a non-functional signal into a four-way stop.  The words "uncontrolled intersection" are just asking for a horrific wreck and, by extension, a delicious lawsuit.  there's a damn good reason why such things don't exist outside of shopping mall parking lots and residential street grids where everyone is going 12mph.

also, who (outside of France) knows the "yield to the right" rule?  Most people will assume that traffic going straight on the road that has higher apparent priority (by number of lanes, traffic volume, etc) gets the right of way.  

[US71]

Many places in Quebec also have these foldable STOP signs.

Missouri has a lot of these, too.

[akotchi]

Most signals at major intersections have battery backup and can go to emergency flash when the power is interrupted.  Or, police will sometimes cut off access from the side streets and let main traffic flow through the intersection.

Sometimes during construction, when existing signals are temporarily extinguished, they will be covered and orange signs will be posted alerting to the situation.

[Ian]

Many places in Quebec also have these foldable STOP signs.

Don't you mean ARRET?

And a few intersections around here have those.