School Zones...

[thenetwork]

How does your state address school zones?  In particular:

1) Is there is one uniform speed limit in school zones for the whole state, or does it vary depending on where the zone is located.

2) Is a school zone defined in your state as being within a school's property line physically along the road or can they put a school zone on a stretch of road even though the street does not touch school property.

3) Any other oddities/frustrations of your state's school zones?

When I used to live in Ohio ISTR that ALL school zones were 20 MPH, regardless of the type of street it was on.  For example, a 20 MPH school zone on a 25 MPH residential street is not a big deal, but throwing a 25 MPH zone on a busy 55MPH 4-lane divided highway (like US 20/SR 18 between Norwalk & Bellevue, OH) is a little overkill.  Here in Colorado, I've seen school zones as high as 45 MPH on busier, multi-lane highways, which is a little more realistic when you consider that kids would not normally traverse that stretch of highway in the first place.

In Ohio, I have also seen school zones placed on streets where the zone runs between the property lines of the school that touch the street.  In this case, it was a 30-foot wide tract of land where a back service driveway connected the school to the main road.  Again, if a school zone is that short, do you really need to have the school zone there in the first place? 

Do you believe that a school zone should be placed on a section of a street even though the school(s) in question is at least one block away from the street in question?

[agentsteel53]

3) Any other oddities/frustrations of your state's school zones?

they exist.  that's frustrating enough. 

schools should not be placed on major arterials.  little residential streets well off the grid are where they belong.

I think the highest speed limit I've seen for a school zone is 55, in Texas (I believe on US-290 west of Austin, but don't quote me on that) where the regular speed limit was 70.

[Scott5114]

Literally half of the town of Washington, OK is one big school zone. The school campus is at the south end of the city street grid, and everything south of SH-24 is signed with SCHOOL Speed Limit 20 signs. Granted this isn't a big deal, because there's only three blocks between SH-24 and the school, and the roads are terrible enough (and the stop signs spaced closely enough) you really wouldn't want to do much more than 20 MPH anyway.

[Dr Frankenstein]

By experience in Québec...

School zones are 30 km/h (20 mph) on all streets, 50 km/h (30 mph) on numbered roads. The slow zone may extend on a few metres around the school and perhaps on nearby streets.

30 km/h limits can also be seen around parks and hospitals, and in residential areas, but they are obviously not designated as school zones.

[Revive 755]

Missouri - schools zones generally vary by city or county, anywhere from 24/7/365 at 15 mph to at least 35 mph.  Nowadays one may need to be wary of cash hungry cities putting speed cameras in these zones.

Iowa - Seems to be some variance, lowest I can recall is 20.  Iowa also has a 55 mph when flashing school zone on the Avenue of the Saints (regular speed is 65).  IMHO the latter is example of poor design of a new alignment expressway.

Illinois - Generally seems to be 20 mph but "when children are present," even on major arterials.  The "when present" is mildly irritating - do I have to creep along when the kids are not walking along the road, but present on the school playground behind a fence?  It may sound like an absurd question, but I'm sure there are those Bel Ridge and New Rome type cities that might take advantage of this.  Illinois will also likely see a school speed zone on the new US 67 expressway near Delhi (between Jerseyville and Godfrey).

Nebraska - At least in Lincoln it was 25 mph when flashing, even on major arterials.  It seemed to be a short enough period that the signs were flashing that it was not too bad.

[national highway 1]

In Australia, School Zones are marked with a fluro yellow sign with the applicable times of day (8-9:30 am, 2:30-4pm) and sometimes with a flashing 40 km/h (25mph) sign

[WillWeaverRVA]

Most school zones I've encountered in VA have 25mph speed limits, or 35mph ones when the school is on a high-speed arterial, although there are exceptions to this - a school on US 250 in Henrico County lacks a school zone, and a high school on Parham Road nearby has a 25mph zone for some strange reason. The speed limit is usually 45, and this results in crushing backups when the school zone speed limit is in effect (Parham Road is probably the most important non-state-maintained road in the Richmond metro area, outside of the city limits).

However, a very heavily traveled stretch of US 33 (speed limit 55) recently got a 45mph school zone when a new high school opened in northern Henrico County. I honestly don't understand why there's a school zone to begin with as the school was built far enough away from the road that speed limits on US 33 shouldn't be an issue.


School Zone: 45 MPH? by Will Weaver, on Flickr

[74/171FAN]

When I used to live in Ohio ISTR that ALL school zones were 20 MPH, regardless of the type of street it was on.  For example, a 20 MPH school zone on a 25 MPH residential street is not a big deal, but throwing a 25 MPH zone on a busy 55MPH 4-lane divided highway (like US 20/SR 18 between Norwalk & Bellevue, OH) is a little overkill.  Here in Colorado, I've seen school zones as high as 45 MPH on busier, multi-lane highways, which is a little more realistic when you consider that kids would not normally traverse that stretch of highway in the first place.

I know this is probably slightly off topic and I might have stated this in another topic awhile back but for some reason back when I took my driver's test my road instructor was saying that the speed limit in school zones in VA was never any higher than 35 mph even when the lights were not flashing.  In fact, he was talking about how he wanted to move a speed limit sign on VA 106 right before an elementary school past the school because the speed limit was 50.  Looking back on it I feel like I should have failed that test because he was such an idiot. 

[deathtopumpkins]

I know this is probably slightly off topic and I might have stated this in another topic awhile back but for some reason back when I took my driver's test my road instructor was saying that the speed limit in school zones in VA was never any higher than 35 mph even when the lights were not flashing.  In fact, he was talking about how he wanted to move a speed limit sign on VA 106 right before an elementary school past the school because the speed limit was 50.  Looking back on it I feel like I should have failed that test because he was such an idiot. 

Nothing any driver instructor told me was correct... I heard something similar, which is that school zones are never higher than 25 and it is in effect 24/7, even when the lights are not flashing. Of course there's a local 45 school zone, and several 30 and 35 zones. And drivers tend to disregard them, especially now that they changed school hours but didn't change the school zone times, so the zones are in effect when there are no kids nearby, and aren't when schools let out. For example, my high school now gets out at 3:09, but used to get out at 2:39. The school zone is still in effect from 2:30 to 3:15, so 5 minutes after school lets out the school zone ends, and it's in effect for 39 minutes before. It and several others cause tremendous backups.

[WillWeaverRVA]

School zones in Virginia are enforced inconsistently, and often incorrectly. My ex-girlfriend was once pulled over by an officer for going 40mph in a school zone...when the lights were not flashing...and the speed limit was 40mph. The officer told her maybe three times the lights were flashing, so she should have slowed to 25mph. She was given a warning (but the officer said this was only due to a clean driving record), and ignored any attempt to convince him the lights most certainly were not on.

In Richmond, the police sometimes turn on school zone lights at odd hours in order to create speed traps. I have seen cases of school zone lights flashing as late as 9pm, and there was no activity at the school nearby.

[tdindy88]

I believe Indiana has just 25 MPH for its school zones, but the times for the limit vary by county. For instance, in Delaware County (Muncie) the signs read WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT while in Hamilton and Marion Counties (Indianapolis) it states that the zone is in effect from 7:30 to 4:30 on all school days. Of course, since all schools in Indianapolis were closed, even with the major roads cleared of ice and snow, I disregarded the school limits today. And then there are other places where the school zones are only in effect from say 7:00 to 9:00 and then 2:00 to 4:00.

But while on this topic, I've always had a peeve against certain school zones. I don't seem to see the reason why I have to slow down during the middle of the school day by a school when I see no children, and when the playground is on the far side of the school some 100 yards from the building. Unless the kid is making a break for it there shouldn't be a reason why they would be near the road. Of course, before and after school is an entirely different matter in which they may be walking to school, and I'll slow down for that. Also, why are there school zones for high schools, aren't those kids old enough to know how to look both ways. Elementary schools I understand why, but for high schools? Anyway, getting off my soapbox now.

[deathtopumpkins]

Going to high school does not correlate with an increase in common sense. Actually, I've observed it to be quite the opposite.

Anyway, though of an interesting question earlier. How do your respective states address private schools in regards to school zones? Locally the city of Hampton does post school zones for private schools just like any other, but neighboring Newport News does not lower the speed limit, they just post the pentagonal fluorescent yellow school zone sign with flashing lights.

[cjk374]

In Louisiana, if it is an educational institution of ANY kind, it gets a school zone. Usually (but not always) the school zone speed is 10 mph less than the speed zone you are in before you get to the school.

[vdeane]

School zones shouldn't exist.  If a school is on a street with a high speed limit, they should build a fence, or better yet, educate the kids not to dart out into traffic.  When I was that age I knew enough not to do that.

Regardless, if a pedestrian walks into traffic and gets hit, the accident should be 100% their fault regardless of the conduct of the driver (they could be driving 100 mph in a 25 mph zone and would still be at 0% fault) and pay all related costs out of pocket (no insurance bailout) and face a $1000 fine on top of that for reckless conduct.

Kids are perfectly capable of learning these things, at least if we try rather than just saying "they're only kids; they can learn to be responsible members of society later".

[roadfro]

The Nevada Revised Statutes defines two types of school speed areas:

* School Zones: These are school speed areas along a street that is adjacent to any school property. The limits of the school zone start upstream from the actual property line of the school (at varying distances), and sometimes extend through an intersection depending on visibility and crossing conditions. These have a statutory speed limit of 15mph, regardless of roadway classification.

* School Crossing Zones: These are school speed areas away from school property where school children can be reasonably expected to cross a roadway when walking to or from school. A school crossing zone is usually fairly short, encompassing a crosswalk or intersection and extending maybe 500 feet on either side (depending on visibility and other factors, possibly longer on arterials). School Crossing Zones have a statutory speed limit of 25mph, regardless of roadway classification.

This law does result in many arterial roadways being reduced from 35/45 down to 15/25 mph. In many cases, however, public entities have either installed flashing beacons or static signs with specific times that make the speed zones active only when students are walking to/from class. Another trend in the Vegas area for school crossing zones is to use static signs with "when children are present" as the activation time, although this has proven to be somewhat ambiguous.

All educational institutions in Nevada have school zones established by the local public works entity or NDOT. The appropriate agency works with the school district or private school to update times on signs/beacons to make sure they are active at the proper times.

[JREwing78]

School zones shouldn't exist.  If a school is on a street with a high speed limit, they should build a fence, or better yet, educate the kids not to dart out into traffic.  When I was that age I knew enough not to do that.

Michigan did that when they built Saginaw St through East Lansing (formerly M-78/Temp I-69, now Bus I-69). They put up a tall Jersey Barrier, and built a pedestrian crossing over the street. The speed limit through there is 45mph.

[Brian556]

The MUTCD states that school zones should only be right in front of school property or at crosswalks. The City of Highland Village TX grossly violates this rule. They have school zones that stretch for 8 blocks beyond the school in one direction; I think it's because there are no sidewalks. In the other direction there is no need for it whatsoever.(unfortunatly this area is not on streetview)

In many places, the length of the school zones could be drastically reduced if there were only one crosswalk on the major street right in front of the school instead of having 2 or 3. Sidewalks could be placed on both sides of the major street.

Example:http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=33.083451,-97.063651&spn=0,0.043774&z=15&layer=c&cbll=33.083617,-97.063537&panoid=o5jCSXLqke1CM7q9LnCr8Q&cbp=12,234.07,,0,5

This entire street is a school zone. Rediculous.

I've seen school zones at schools in rural areas where no children walk to and from school. It's quite obvious to me that they are there to slow down traffic so vehicles exiting the school can safely enter traffic.

[Duke87]

As far as I'm aware, ConnDOT never does anything with school zones. Even if it's on a state highway, the municipality handles it. At which point, it varies. Greenwich and New Canaan post their school zones at 20 (and "slow down in our town" New Canaan has them in effect 24/7!). Stamford and Darien use 25. Stamford notoriously indiscriminately. We have a couple 25 mph school zones on streets already otherwise posted at 25 anyway (the point, then, is?). We also have a 25 mph school zone on a 40 mph four-lane state highway... which nobody slows down for. The Stamford Police, at least, have better things to do than setting up speed traps (like getting paid overtime to babysit construction sites) and so they typically do not.

Our flashers are also interesting in that they know what time of day it is and know what day of the week it is... but do not seem to know what day of the year it is. During the summer, they still flash. Over Christmas, Winter, and Spring breaks, they still flash. On holidays, they still flash.

[Zmapper]

We have a couple 25 mph school zones on streets already otherwise posted at 25 anyway (the point, then, is?).

Sometimes fines double in school zones like they do in construction zones.

[NE2]

Regardless, if a pedestrian walks into traffic and gets hit, the accident should be 100% their fault regardless of the conduct of the driver (they could be driving 100 mph in a 25 mph zone and would still be at 0% fault) and pay all related costs out of pocket (no insurance bailout) and face a $1000 fine on top of that for reckless conduct.

Wow. I hope you hit a kid and go to jail for it. No kidding.

[vdeane]

In many places, the length of the school zones could be drastically reduced if there were only one crosswalk on the major street right in front of the school instead of having 2 or 3. Sidewalks could be placed on both sides of the major street.

I'd say that the need for multiple crosswalks is because people are too lazy to go out of their way to the crosswalk, but there's quite clearly one right in front of the school there.

By my high school there is a ton of jaywalking to the south; the reason is the crosswalks build for the middle and high schools are to the north (which was stupid, because there's an intersection with a crosswalk right next to the middle school), and the nearest crosswalk to the south is over half a mile away.

Wow. I hope you hit a kid and go to jail for it. No kidding.

You don't think pedestrians should have to take responsibility?  The idea of "look both ways before entering the street" is NOT that hard.  I knew it by the time I was old enough to play outside without an adult hovering near me.  If a kid is old enough to play outside with minimal/no supervision and they don't understand this, either the parent is breaching their responsibility to teach their kids these things, or the kid is too retarded to be allowed to play outside unsupervised.

The idea that pedestrians have right of way no matter what needs to change.  CARS should have the right of way on roads unless a pedestrian is crossing on the crosswalk with a yield to pedestrian sign (not a stop sign - if there's no pedestrian, why should I have to stop?) or a signal of some kind.  This is not to say pedestrians are banned from the roads - if it's clear, feel free to cross wherever you want.  But you shouldn't be making cars slow down/stop just because you couldn't wait another 10 seconds.

In fact, when I'm on the pedestrian side I always feel bad when drivers slow down/stop, creating a delay of 20-30 seconds for themselves, just to save me the 5 second delay I'd have waiting for them to go on their way.

[NE2]

You don't think pedestrians should have to take responsibility?  The idea of "look both ways before entering the street" is NOT that hard.

Motorists are the ones operating heavy machinery that can be deadly. If you hit a pedestrian when you could have easily stopped in time had you been doing the speed limit, it's your fault. That doesn't mean the pedestrian is always in the right; this isn't a zero-sum game.

The idea that pedestrians have right of way no matter what needs to change.  CARS should have the right of way on roads unless a pedestrian is crossing on the crosswalk with a yield to pedestrian sign (not a stop sign - if there's no pedestrian, why should I have to stop?) or a signal of some kind.

That's not the way the law works in Florida, New York, or most likely most other states.

When traffic-control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk...

Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(emphasis mine)

Note the reference to an "unmarked crosswalk". This is the place that a crosswalk would be painted in there were one, and it has the same legal status as a marked crosswalk.

This is not to say pedestrians are banned from the roads - if it's clear, feel free to cross wherever you want.  But you shouldn't be making cars slow down/stop just because you couldn't wait another 10 seconds.

In fact, when I'm on the pedestrian side I always feel bad when drivers slow down/stop, creating a delay of 20-30 seconds for themselves, just to save me the 5 second delay I'd have waiting for them to go on their way.

I feel bad when I'm driving and someone turning right in front of me waits when they could go and only force me to slow down a bit. Oh wait, no I don't, because I have right-of-way. Right-of-way laws exist, in part, so traffic (which includes pedestrians) doesn't stand around deciding who can go first.



Here's an interesting post and comments: http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2011/02/01/why-did-the-pedestrian-cross-the-street-like-that/

[6a]

The biggest thing that pisses me off in Ohio is the "during restricted hours" signs.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not out there aiming for kids, but could you be a little less vague?

Recently Columbus PD has been setting up mobile speed cameras inside school zones as well.

[J N Winkler]

Personally, I think questions of who has priority in traffic are arid.  (BTW, on British roads boards, some posters make a huge point of distinguishing between "priority," which is something assigned by traffic signs and the rules of the road and is not absolute, and "right of way," which is absolute and is typically used in railway crossing contexts, where the standard of protection provided for conflicting movements is typically much higher than that provided between cars or between cars and pedestrians.)  Questions of fault are also arid.  You just don't want to be told that you killed a kid, even if you had priority.

I am not sure about the specifics in American state law, but in Britain the state of having priority does not entitle you to run over people who are attempting to execute conflicting movements when you have the ability to carry out evasive actions safely.  The mere fact of having priority is no defense.

[vdeane]

That's not the way the law works in Florida, New York, or most likely most other states.

Hence why I said "should have".  IMO the law needs to be changed.  While it makes sense for residential streets, it makes no sense for arterial roads which is where most of the drivers are.  Residential streets have so little traffic that what the law says concerning them is moot.

Note the reference to an "unmarked crosswalk". This is the place that a crosswalk would be painted in there were one, and it has the same legal status as a marked crosswalk.

If you're in an unmarked crosswalk, either the road is low-traffic enough that you'll be able to find an opening in the traffic to cross, or there is an engineering deficiency that needs to be addressed.

I feel bad when I'm driving and someone turning right in front of me waits when they could go and only force me to slow down a bit. Oh wait, no I don't, because I have right-of-way. Right-of-way laws exist, in part, so traffic (which includes pedestrians) doesn't stand around deciding who can go first.

My theory is about minimizing the net delay for society.  Obviously doesn't work in heavier traffic, but that part of my post wasn't about heavy traffic.

Incedentially, that thread you mentioned supports my side:

She crossed legally by yielding to other traffic. If she'd gotten hit, she would have been at fault.

And while I do agree that cars should do what they can to avoid a collision, this does not give peds a licence to walk into traffic whenever they please just because they're a ped.  And given what I've posted, if a car hits a ped when they were in a crosswalk with the walk signal or there was a sign saying to yield to them, the driver should get the book thrown at them.  Maybe police officers should spend more time monitoring crosswalks than sitting in the highway median looking for speeders that are endangering nobody.

And getting back to topic: if a school-age kid can't understand and apply the need to look both ways before entering the street, something is wrong.