Reduce Speed or Speed Zone?

[roadman65]

I noticed that in GA and AL the signs for speed limit reductions seem to say "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" instead of the more popular
"REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" as you normally see.  However, Georgia does use the latter when the maximum speed drops from 65 to 55, I am to assume because the changeover to the 65 mph was done recently( or I should say 15 years ago).

I am guessing that there are other states that use the speed zone signs instead of the reduced signs as well.  Now, I have seen in parts of FL and in NYS, a new yellow warning diamond sign with a picture of a small speed limit sign with the new limit on it.

What do many of you think is the better way to address change to lower limits?  I find the yellow signs to be best on highways, but REDUCED SPEED is best on local roads and in urban areas where there are no such signs at all except the new lower speed limit is posted that you then have to brake.

[vdeane]

The yellow ones.  It's kinda impossible to prepare for a lower limit if you don't know what the lower limit will be.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have to brake for a lower limit, you're not driving properly, but that's because I drive a stick shift; automatics don't have that ability.

[Takumi]

The yellow ones.  It's kinda impossible to prepare for a lower limit if you don't know what the lower limit will be.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have to brake for a lower limit, you're not driving properly, but that's because I drive a stick shift; automatics don't have that ability.

Agree that the diamonds are better due to being more informative. Heck, in my town, there's a speed limit sign that says "REDUCED SPEED" where "speed limit" normally is above the limit (30), with no advance signage.

On your last point, my car, at least, has the ability to engine brake like a manual transmission.

[Scott5114]

OK formerly used SPEED ZONE AHEAD, but that is being phased out in favor of the 2003 MUTCD diamonds.

[Revive 755]

I liked the Illinois way:  "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" with a supplemental plaque that had the new limit underneath:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.452697,-90.394135&spn=0.014,0.033023&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.452897,-90.393987&panoid=QKLL-RQdDyXv6NehTg7HOg&cbp=12,239.88,,0,2.22

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.450112,-90.402288&spn=0.014067,0.033023&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.449982,-90.402147&panoid=sF2S7PbdW77tSAHh2LaPwA&cbp=12,168.19,,0,-0.88

Illinois has since switched over the newer diamond design.

[blawp]

I like the California way the most, "50 ZONE AHEAD" etc.

[PurdueBill]

Indiana used to use white signs that read "Reduced Speed XX Ahead" but has been changing to the diamonds.  Most of the white signs like these on US 24 near Huntington have been changed to diamonds, but it's common in my travels in Indiana to see where one side has the old sign and across from it there is a new one.

[Brandon]

Indiana used to use white signs that read "Reduced Speed XX Ahead" but has been changing to the diamonds.  Most of the white signs like these on US 24 near Huntington have been changed to diamonds, but it's common in my travels in Indiana to see where one side has the old sign and across from it there is a new one.

I liked this method.  Michigan tended to be the biggest user of this style of signage.  The diamonds have signs that are just too damn small, IMHO.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I like the W3-5, the "MUTCD Diamond" with the speed limit sign. I absolutely do not like the W3-5a alternative, all text with "xx MPH SPEED ZONE AHEAD". It might work better if it had larger numbers, but I think the real problem with it is that I am programmed to look for a speed limit on a white regulatory sign. Having the sign superimposed on a warning sign works fine, but all text is hard to absorb as you fly by.

Arizona uses the diamond with text "SPEED REDUCED AHEAD". This appears to be a recent modification to their sign standards, probably coincident with the W3-5 adoption.

[US71]

I like the W3-5, the "MUTCD Diamond" with the speed limit sign. I absolutely do not like the W3-5a alternative, all text with "xx MPH SPEED ZONE AHEAD". It might work better if it had larger numbers, but I think the real problem with it is that I am programmed to look for a speed limit on a white regulatory sign. Having the sign superimposed on a warning sign works fine, but all text is hard to absorb as you fly by.

Arizona uses the diamond with text "SPEED REDUCED AHEAD". This appears to be a recent modification to their sign standards, probably coincident with the W3-5 adoption.

Arkansas sometimes uses "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" on a b/w rectangle, though not as much since they started using the new Diamond Speed Limit signs.

[roadfro]

Nevada used to use the standard regulatory rectangle "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" signs. This would be part of a speed reduction series on rural highways as they approach small towns (i.e. from a 70mph limit, you encounter this sign, then a series of 3-4 speed limit signs with progressively lower limits until you reach the town/city speed as you enter the town/city limits). Since the 2003 MUTCD was adopted, NDOT started using the W3-5a warning alternative "XX MPH SPEED ZONE AHEAD" in lieu of the rectangle version.

I agree with the MUTCD decision to switch the sign type, as the "Reduced speed" message is a warning as opposed to a regulation (the next speed limit sign establishes the actual regulation). I further agree with High Plains Traveler in that reading all that text on the 'all text' alternate sign is difficult to parse at 70+ mph.

Fortunately, I know that approaching a town I need to start slowing down when I see the yellow diamond regardless until I can actually read the reduced speed limit.

The alternative sign is also difficult to read when used in a construction zone on a freeway, which NDOT seems to specify for the 10mph speed reduction.  The standard graphical version would be much easier to parse at fast speed, as the very layout of the speed limit graphic is easily recognized without 'reading' it--when you factor in the speed limit graphic having a naturally larger number than the text equivalent, the recognition of the graphic version is clearly superior.

The only reason I can think of to not use the graphic warning version would be cost of having more than two colors on one sign. In the case of NDOT though, I think this is a moot point--I saw the new graphical "school bus stop ahead" sign earlier today on US 95, which also has three colors...

[vdeane]

The yellow ones.  It's kinda impossible to prepare for a lower limit if you don't know what the lower limit will be.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have to brake for a lower limit, you're not driving properly, but that's because I drive a stick shift; automatics don't have that ability.

Agree that the diamonds are better due to being more informative. Heck, in my town, there's a speed limit sign that says "REDUCED SPEED" where "speed limit" normally is above the limit (30), with no advance signage.

On your last point, my car, at least, has the ability to engine brake like a manual transmission.

I wasn't even talking about down shifting so much as the fact that standards will lose 5mph of speed within a second of taking the foot off the gas while automatics will still be coasting at the same speed in that time.

Indiana used to use white signs that read "Reduced Speed XX Ahead" but has been changing to the diamonds.  Most of the white signs like these on US 24 near Huntington have been changed to diamonds, but it's common in my travels in Indiana to see where one side has the old sign and across from it there is a new one.

I liked this method.  Michigan tended to be the biggest user of this style of signage.  The diamonds have signs that are just too damn small, IMHO.

They're small, but all you need is the number.  You're not meant to read the whole sign in the diamond, just recognize it by shape and read the number.

[1995hoo]

As I've said in other threads, I object to "Reduced Speed Ahead," or similar wording like "Speed Reduced," because it's incorrect. It's the speed LIMIT that's reduced. Whether any individual driver reduces his speed is up to him.

[Brandon]

Indiana used to use white signs that read "Reduced Speed XX Ahead" but has been changing to the diamonds.  Most of the white signs like these on US 24 near Huntington have been changed to diamonds, but it's common in my travels in Indiana to see where one side has the old sign and across from it there is a new one.

I liked this method.  Michigan tended to be the biggest user of this style of signage.  The diamonds have signs that are just too damn small, IMHO.

They're small, but all you need is the number.  You're not meant to read the whole sign in the diamond, just recognize it by shape and read the number.

They're still very tiny compared to the former method.

[vdeane]

I don't know about Illinois, but the former method in NY didn't have any reference to what the new speed limit would be at all.

[BamaZeus]

I never liked "Speed Zone Ahead" because it insinuates that you can go faster through that area.

[roadman]

I noticed that in GA and AL the signs for speed limit reductions seem to say "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" instead of the more popular
"REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" as you normally see.  However, Georgia does use the latter when the maximum speed drops from 65 to 55, I am to assume because the changeover to the 65 mph was done recently( or I should say 15 years ago).

I am guessing that there are other states that use the speed zone signs instead of the reduced signs as well.  Now, I have seen in parts of FL and in NYS, a new yellow warning diamond sign with a picture of a small speed limit sign with the new limit on it.

What do many of you think is the better way to address change to lower limits?  I find the yellow signs to be best on highways, but REDUCED SPEED is best on local roads and in urban areas where there are no such signs at all except the new lower speed limit is posted that you then have to brake.

As I understand it (I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV), "Speed Zone Ahead" was normally used in states that relied principally on prima-facia speeds for most highways instead of posted limits created by regulation (as Massachusetts does).

Although the text should imply to even reasonably intelligent drivers that there is a speed reduction ahead, the legal meaning of the former regulatory (black on white) sign it that you are approaching a section of road with a regulated speed limit.  In other words, specifically stating "SPEED ZONE" in the sign legend is principally for enforcement purposes.

There is exactly one location on a Massachusetts interstate that still has "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" signs.  It's on I-95 northbound approaching the I-93 interchange in Canton.  The story goes that, because I-95 was supposed to continue north of Canton, the original speed regulations for that section of highway ended south of I-93 - the premise being that an additional regulation would be completed once the interchange was finished.  Although the I-95 alignment north of Canton was abandoned (at least for highway purposes) or never acquired in the early 1970s, they apparently never went back and amended the speed regulation to cover the road between the Norwood line and the I-93 interchange,

If I correctly recall current Massachusetts law, prima-facia speed on controlled-access highways is 50.  Of course, I've always wondered why the "rollover ramp" from I-95 north to I-95 north, which currently has an advisory limit of 25, was never posted as a regulatory limit instead.

As for the new advance speed limit signs, MassDOT has been quickly transitioning to the W3-5 (graphic) signs for permanent installations, but has been mostly using the W3-5a (text) signs in work zones.

[Mapmikey]

As I've said in other threads, I object to "Reduced Speed Ahead," or similar wording like "Speed Reduced," because it's incorrect. It's the speed LIMIT that's reduced. Whether any individual driver reduces his speed is up to him.

In North Carolina they say REDUCE SPEED AHEAD which makes it a command instead of stating the desired outcome.

South Carolina was also a SPEED ZONE AHEAD state for many years...

Mapmikey

[1995hoo]

As I've said in other threads, I object to "Reduced Speed Ahead," or similar wording like "Speed Reduced," because it's incorrect. It's the speed LIMIT that's reduced. Whether any individual driver reduces his speed is up to him.

In North Carolina they say REDUCE SPEED AHEAD which makes it a command instead of stating the desired outcome.

....

Indeed they do, and they still have those (saw a couple on I-95 last weekend). I remember those signs well from my law school years in the mid-1990s. I remember my parents and brother visiting one time and my father, who does not normally find road signs interesting, even commented about the "Reduce Speed Ahead" sign making more sense than the "Reduced Speed Ahead" version.

I still prefer the newer yellow ones that tell you what the reduced limit will be. I think of those as "Canadian-inspired" because the first place I remember seeing that sort of sign was on a trip to Mont-Tremblant. I like that sort better than the text-based signs discussed in this thread because on a text-based sign I feel like I need to give it a second glance to confirm what the message is, whereas the yellow sign is more like a graphical notice (the words "SPEED LIMIT," or the word "MAXIMUM" in Canada, are essentially irrelevant after you've seen that type of sign one time).

[Brandon]

I don't know about Illinois, but the former method in NY didn't have any reference to what the new speed limit would be at all.

Illinois and Wisconsin always used a sign (like on advisory signs) with the new speed limit under the "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" sign,

SPEED
ZONE
AHEAD
45
MPH

or,

REDUCED
SPEED
AHEAD
45
MPH

Michigan and to a lesser extent Indiana and Ohio used this style, all in one sign,

REDUCED
SPEED
45
AHEAD

[kphoger]

I like the Canadian ones.... 

[MASTERNC]

I'm not a fan of the stretched numbers on the new diamond signs.  The only place where the dimensions are similar to real speed limit signs is on I-95 South near White Marsh, MD where the speed limit drops from 65 to 55.