Article: When a signal goes on too long

[txstateends]

http://www.athensreview.com/local/x1146349285/Driver-sits-in-front-of-street-light-too-long

[Scott5114]

The man was able to post both bonds, and he was released from Henderson County Jail on Monday, possibly to sit in front of the same stop light on his way home.

[Alps]

Speaking of signals going on too long, twice in my life I have been subjected to 30-second yellow lights. The first was in Manhattan, 9th Ave. SB at 59th St., and after about 10 seconds all the cars started going through. It did eventually change as we looked behind us, but clearly was not well. The second was in Boston, SB on the Surface Artery during the Big Dig. That one, not sure if it ever actually did change.

[roadman65]

Years ago, I remember the traffic signal on NJ 34 at the Earle Navy Complex in Colt's Neck, the signal was stuck on yellow for NJ 34.  It did not seem to change as I kept looking back until it was out of view.

[DaBigE]

^^ Reminds me of The Simpsons MENSA episode where they changed all the traffic lights to be yellow and red to improve traffic flow. "C'mon.... stay yellow, stay yellow.... Wow, I'm making record time...if only i had someplace to be." - Lenny

[Mr. Matté]

The article doesn't mention what the actual timing of that light is so it's hard to determine if it's indeed too long. Now Clinton Rd. and NJ 23, that's a long light at 5.5 minutes.

But while we're telling off-topic stories of getting stuck at long yellow lights, I was on a group bicycle ride coming from Rutgers' College Ave. Campus and this happened to me. As we were on College Ave. and the light at the Huntingdon St. intersection turned green, it turned green for a like two seconds and then turned yellow. About half of the group went through while they had the green and the back half (of which I was a part) waited at the light. That yellow was on for at least seven seconds so we all decided to screw it and went through anyway. I know I've seen that happen at that light another time and there was one instance where I saw both a red and a green illuminated on a signal head at one time. Luckily the other heads were working so I didn't have to worry too much.

[deathtopumpkins]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

I ran a signal in Boston on the Jamaicaway (at Brookline Ave I believe) last weekend after it remained red for several minutes. Most traffic was just running it, barely slowing down, as if there were no signal at all, so I don't know if it is always like that or what, but the signals on the cross street stayed green, even changing for protected left turns, but never cycling through green on the Jamaicaway. Eventually I decided to just run it like everyone else.

[NE2]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

That's an all-pedestrian 'Barnes dance' phase.

[DaBigE]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

Was this display in the US? I've heard of such instances used in various locations around Europe. The extra yellow display was cue to standard transmission drivers to prepare to get their cars into the proper gear for the impending light change.

[Alps]

"Maurice Rached, a project engineer with the state Department of Transportation in Bergen, Passaic and Essex Counties, said that drivers trying to cross Route 3 in Bergen and Passaic counties and Routes 1 and 9 in Essex County had similar problems."

Both of those roads have no traffic lights. So I totally don't get her statement.

[Road Hog]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

Was this display in the US? I've heard of such instances used in various locations around Europe. The extra yellow display was cue to standard transmission drivers to prepare to get their cars into the proper gear for the impending light change.

Yes, the light will show red and yellow simultaneously for a second or two before it turns green. It's that way in Germany for sure, but I don't remember if it is in France and Britain.

Here, I just look at the side street lights to turn yellow and see if anyone is in the left turn lane coming toward me.

[1995hoo]

I've seen the combined red-yellow cycle in at least the UK, Germany, and Russia.

I love it and I wish our lights did the same thing. It's damn annoying the way you don't get any notice that the light's going green. You can do as "Road Hog" suggests about watching the other street, but that doesn't always work for a variety of reasons, and the odds are the doofus in front of you playing with a mobile phone isn't watching the other light.

Of course, they don't have the same problem with red-light running that parts of the US do, either. In the UK when the red-yellow cycle comes on everyone shifts into gear and is essentially starting to move right as the light goes green. In the US if you move that quickly you stand a real chance of getting broadsided.

[deathtopumpkins]

It was somewhere here in Mass I believe... Salem maybe... not one of the flashing green ped signals though.

[agentsteel53]

I've sat at a red light for about 5 minutes before.  I was trying to make a left from a minor side street onto a major arterial, at about 1am.

figuring that I simply had not triggered the change, I backed up and moved forward again.  nothing.  so I looked both ways and ran the red.

[cpzilliacus]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

Was this display in the US? I've heard of such instances used in various locations around Europe. The extra yellow display was cue to standard transmission drivers to prepare to get their cars into the proper gear for the impending light change.

Yes, the light will show red and yellow simultaneously for a second or two before it turns green. It's that way in Germany for sure, but I don't remember if it is in France and Britain.

Finland shows a yellow under red for a short time before green, especially for protected-phase left turns.

[PHLBOS]

I've seen signals briefly display both yellow and red at the same time before (plus one extended period of time that I've still yet to figure out what I was supposed to have done at).

Unless it's an old pedestrian-activated signal (many MA towns still use this); that just simply means that the signal is malfunctioning.  I've seen yellow & green lit at the same time as well for the latter condition.

[Road Hog]

I've sat at a red light for about 5 minutes before.  I was trying to make a left from a minor side street onto a major arterial, at about 1am.

figuring that I simply had not triggered the change, I backed up and moved forward again.  nothing.  so I looked both ways and ran the red.

In that instance, if you get stopped, I'd think a malfunctioning light would be a valid defense.

[agentsteel53]

In that instance, if you get stopped, I'd think a malfunctioning light would be a valid defense.

probably - though I could have turned right and made a U-turn later.  but I had judged that there was no one coming (there was maybe 1 car per minute, which I could see from far away in each direction) so what I was doing was safe. 

no idea how well that would've held up in court, but as no one saw me ...

[Scott5114]

I've sat at a red light for about 5 minutes before.  I was trying to make a left from a minor side street onto a major arterial, at about 1am.

figuring that I simply had not triggered the change, I backed up and moved forward again.  nothing.  so I looked both ways and ran the red.

I've done the exact same thing, but on a straight-thru movement.

[NE2]

Same here. But it was on a bike so I'm a dirty scofflaw.

[Scott5114]

Same here. But it was on a bike so I'm a dirty scofflaw.

yup totally

[deathtopumpkins]

This brings up an interesting question. Do any states have a specific time limit after which a motorist is legally allowed to assume a signal is malfunctioning and disobey it?

[DaBigE]

This brings up an interesting question. Do any states have a specific time limit after which a motorist is legally allowed to assume a signal is malfunctioning and disobey it?

It's not exactly the same case, but Wisconsin makes an allowance for 2-wheeled vehicles:

Notwithstanding subd. 1., a motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle facing a red signal at an intersection may, after stopping as required under subd. 1. for not less than 45 seconds, proceed cautiously through the intersection before the signal turns green if no other vehicles are present at the intersection to actuate the signal and the operator of the motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle reasonably believes the signal is vehicle actuated. The operator of a motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle proceeding through a red signal under this subdivision shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicular traffic, pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device proceeding through a green signal at the intersection or lawfully within a crosswalk or using the intersection. This subdivision does not affect any authorization for a bicyclist under subd. 2.

Other than that, I can't seem to find anything related to a malfunctioning signal in our statutes. One would hope to assume common sense would prevail, Read: Check for conflicting traffic and go when the way is clear.

[roadman]

It was somewhere here in Mass I believe... Salem maybe... not one of the flashing green ped signals though.

Until the 1971 MUTCD outlawed it, it was standard practice in Massachusetts (and other New England states as well) to display red and yellow to indicate an exclusive pedestrian phase.  I beleive there's still a handful of signals in Massachusetts that haven't yet been replaced or updated that still show red and yellow for pedestrians.

[NE2]

A standard red-yellow pedestrian phase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYL2LW_FEg