Alabama US 80

[lamsalfl]

Don't think we've had an Alabama US 80 thread. 

This road is being studied by ALDOT for an I-85 extension.  They don't have the money to build it now, but they are at least planning for the route.  People say the traffic counts do not warrant an Interstate, but for this route, I just have to believe that it's a chicken or the egg syndrome here.  I think if there was an Interstate here, pressure would be relieved off of I-20 (especially with the new 55 mph limit east of Anniston). 

The typical driver prefers to stay on Interstates, and therefore US 80 isn't a consideration on the way to Atlanta.  However, if there was an Interstate, I think the alternative to Birmingham would be entertaining to travelers.  Plus, the I-85 corridor SW of Atlanta is heavily populated and it's inconvenient to get to I-20.  Then there is the Jackson-Meridian to Montgomery traffic and connecting two state capitals. 

You have Demopolis and Selma (which is a decent size town) to help anchor the "in between" of the route.  It's not exactly an exitless stretch that would made by connecting Meridian and Montgomery.  In addition, a case can be made for Columbus and Macon to be connected.  They're directly in the path of this road, and I-16 would be the wholly integrated with travel to points west.  Seems like a logical connection with applicable termini.

Anyone else on board with this thought process?

[bugo]

Isn't most of it already 4 lanes divided?  When I drove it in 1996 much of it was 4 lanes and some of the 2 lane segments were being converted to 4 lanes.  I would think a few bypasses would be enough for this route.

[FLRoads]

Isn't most of it already 4 lanes divided?  When I drove it in 1996 much of it was 4 lanes and some of the 2 lane segments were being converted to 4 lanes.  I would think a few bypasses would be enough for this route.

The majority of it is 4-lanes west of Montgomery except for the portion about 4 miles west of the westernmost intersection with Alabama 28 in Sumter County to the Mississippi state line. Speed limits on the rural portions are 65 MPH with lower speeds in the more urban areas, with the lowest speed limit being 35 MPH (like in Demopolis and such)

[golden eagle]

I'm not against it, especially if it's extended to Meridian. It may not benefit personally unless I'm driving to Augusta, GA.

[bugo]

I'm not against it, especially if it's extended to Meridian. It may not benefit personally unless I'm driving to Augusta, GA.

I don't see what an interstate would accomplish that updating US 80 and building some freeway bypasses wouldn't.  What is the speed limit on rural Alabama Interstates?  I'm guessing 70.  What is the speed limit on 4 lane divided non freeways? 

[US71]

Isn't most of it already 4 lanes divided?  When I drove it in 1996 much of it was 4 lanes and some of the 2 lane segments were being converted to 4 lanes.  I would think a few bypasses would be enough for this route.

From Meridian, MS to Cuba, AL it's 2 lanes (with US 11),

[bugo]

Isn't most of it already 4 lanes divided?  When I drove it in 1996 much of it was 4 lanes and some of the 2 lane segments were being converted to 4 lanes.  I would think a few bypasses would be enough for this route.

From Meridian, MS to Cuba, AL it's 2 lanes (with US 11),

But there's that "TO US 80" highway that connects I-20-59 to US 11-80 that is 4 lanes divided.  What's the official name of that road?

[froggie]

I don't see what an interstate would accomplish that updating US 80 and building some freeway bypasses wouldn't.

Brand recognition (the Interstate is, in effect, a "brand"), which some people think is the savior and harbringer of economic development/prosperity.  The reality is that, while it does play a factor, one only need look at just about the entire I-20/59 corridor west of Tuscaloosa (to, including, and even beyond Meridian) to see that it's not the ONLY factor.

BTW, I fully agree with you.

What is the speed limit on rural Alabama Interstates?  I'm guessing 70.  What is the speed limit on 4 lane divided non freeways?

Rural Alabama Interstates are 70 MPH.  Rural non-Interstate divided highways (including the completed portions of Corridor X) are 65 MPH.

But there's that "TO US 80" highway that connects I-20-59 to US 11-80 that is 4 lanes divided.  What's the official name of that road?

Officially, it's an unsigned part of AL 8.

[jdb1234]

If I recall, the reasoning behind running a freeway along US and for the West Alabama freeway is to promote economic development in the "Black Belt" the poorest area in the state.

[lamsalfl]

http://www.i85extension.com/

[froggie]

Yep, that's the reasoning.  But what officials fail to understand is it takes more than a flashy Interstate shield to "promote economic development".  Nevermind that tying up scarce transportation dollars in such "economic development" roads takes away from needed projects elsewhere (and even within the new road's corridor).

[bugo]

I don't see what an interstate would accomplish that updating US 80 and building some freeway bypasses wouldn't.

Brand recognition (the Interstate is, in effect, a "brand"), which some people think is the savior and harbringer of economic development/prosperity.  The reality is that, while it does play a factor, one only need look at just about the entire I-20/59 corridor west of Tuscaloosa (to, including, and even beyond Meridian) to see that it's not the ONLY factor.

Has that theory ever been proven?  Have studies been done that have show that an Interstate brings more prosperity than a 4 lane US or state highway?

[lamsalfl]

I think too much weight is being put on traffic counts of a current US highway and not enough thought about regional connectivity and organization.  I know extending I-16 to the Auburn area is not happening any time soon, but the general thought of making a road from Meridian to Savannah (using parts of existing I-85) would increase connectivity.  You could go due east from Dallas to the Atlantic. 

I'm looking at I-49 traffic counts on DOTD's website, and it wasn't pretty on I-49 a decade ago.  Some segments northwest of Alexandria were pulling in traffic counts in the neighborhood of 8,000/day.  Today the low counts have increased into the low to mid teens.  (I'm guessing national awareness of I-49 takes time.)  In 2007 at milepost 131.73, I-49 was pulling in 11,240 per day. 

Here's another example that is similiar to US 80 in Alabama.   US 71 at the AR/LA border drew 5,784 in 2009, and we're extending I-49 north.  I don't think extending I-85 to Meridian is the same as saying let's build an E/W interstate across Nevada where there is nothing.  At least I-85 has connectivity potential, and provides an alternate route into a major city (Atlanta).

[codyg1985]

I think too much weight is being put on traffic counts of a current US highway and not enough thought about regional connectivity and organization.  I know extending I-16 to the Auburn area is not happening any time soon, but the general thought of making a road from Meridian to Savannah (using parts of existing I-85) would increase connectivity.  You could go due east from Dallas to the Atlantic. 

I'm looking at I-49 traffic counts on DOTD's website, and it wasn't pretty on I-49 a decade ago.  Some segments northwest of Alexandria were pulling in traffic counts in the neighborhood of 8,000/day.  Today the low counts have increased into the low to mid teens.  (I'm guessing national awareness of I-49 takes time.)  In 2007 at milepost 131.73, I-49 was pulling in 11,240 per day. 

Here's another example that is similiar to US 80 in Alabama.   US 71 at the AR/LA border drew 5,784 in 2009, and we're extending I-49 north.  I don't think extending I-85 to Meridian is the same as saying let's build an E/W interstate across Nevada where there is nothing.  At least I-85 has connectivity potential, and provides an alternate route into a major city (Atlanta).

Politicians are promoting the I-85 extension for the wrong reasons. They say that it will bring economic growth to the black belt region. It is not certain that an interstate highway will bring prosperity to a region, even if it does increase connectivity, which this extension would do.  It certainly makes the area more accessible, but it doesn't magically bring in the other things needed for economic growth, such as better educational opportunities, a more qualified labor pool, utility improvements, and so on.

The road would be beneficial to out-of-state drivers and trucks, but only marginally beneficial to the local economy. It may help Selma by making it a bedroom community to Montgomery, but that would be about it.

[sglaughlin]

From the Birmingham News:

http://blog.al.com/wire/2010/12/crews_doing_preliminary_work_o.html

I think the current Govener was in favor of the extention of I-85 to I-20.  Don't know how the incoming Govener feels.

[Revive 755]

From the Birmingham News:

http://blog.al.com/wire/2010/12/crews_doing_preliminary_work_o.html

Nine months for the EIS?  Either that's only for the draft version, or somehow ALDOT manages to get them done faster than many other agencies.

[Stephane Dumas]

Officially, it's an unsigned part of AL 8.

Btw, AL-8 end at a stub just west of the I-20/59 ramps, is there some plans to extend it to MS?

[Sykotyk]

I've driven US80 many times. It's a great road for what it does, but some bypasses would very much be needed. The Selma bypass is a joke as it doesn't really bypass the town. Instead, it dumps you at a T intersection with dozens of big box chain stores and restaurants. A lot of it is 'freeway ready'. It's four-laned, wide ROW to use Texas style frontage roads if an when the desire to switch from a high-speed limited access expressway to a full freeway is desired.

It's a great way to get from Atlanta to Dallas. You can't just use basic traffic counts. Because once the freeway is open, there will be a lot of traffic diverted to it from the other major through routes (I75-I24-I40-I30 or I20-FutureI22-I40-I30). Plus, most of I-85 appears to be capable of handling the extra traffic once it's known to the public as 'the' way.

Sadly, talking to many people (recreational travelers, truckers, vacationers, etc) that the lack of a blue line on the RM atlas precludes them from taking the road simply because the assumption of hundreds of lights slowing them down. They would rather go 100-200 miles extra to 'bypass' a problem that really doesn't exist.

[agentsteel53]

Sadly, talking to many people (recreational travelers, truckers, vacationers, etc) that the lack of a blue line on the RM atlas precludes them from taking the road simply because the assumption of hundreds of lights slowing them down. They would rather go 100-200 miles extra to 'bypass' a problem that really doesn't exist.

the problem is that Rand McNally and a lot of other companies do not make a distinction between expressway (no traffic lights, driveway access and left turns permitted) and arterial (traffic lights).  I honestly do not care if a road is four-lane divided or undivided - if mainline traffic is allowed to proceed without ever having to stop, then that's a road I would take.  For example, US-27 north of Perry, FL and US-441 through Orlando are both labeled as orange lines.  27 has maybe one traffic light.  441 has hundreds.  the map's ambiguity does not allow me to make an educated decision about these matters.

[golden eagle]

I don't see what an interstate would accomplish that updating US 80 and building some freeway bypasses wouldn't.

Brand recognition (the Interstate is, in effect, a "brand"), which some people think is the savior and harbringer of economic development/prosperity.  The reality is that, while it does play a factor, one only need look at just about the entire I-20/59 corridor west of Tuscaloosa (to, including, and even beyond Meridian) to see that it's not the ONLY factor.

Has that theory ever been proven?  Have studies been done that have show that an Interstate brings more prosperity than a 4 lane US or state highway?

An interstate itself doesn't magically bring prosperity, but it's no secret that most areas that are doing the best economically are along and near interstates. I would even go out on a limb that if it weren't for interstates, suburbs wouldn't have exploded in growth like they have over the years.

[agentsteel53]

An interstate itself doesn't magically bring prosperity, but it's no secret that most areas that are doing the best economically are along and near interstates. I would even go out on a limb that if it weren't for interstates, suburbs wouldn't have exploded in growth like they have over the years.

suburbs are an indication of progress about as much as bleeding from an artery is an indication of a heartbeat.

[brownpelican]

If I recall, the reasoning behind running a freeway along US and for the West Alabama freeway is to promote economic development in the "Black Belt" the poorest area in the state.

That's a bunch of crock because there's literally nothing out there along 80 outside of Selma and Montgomery. They're wasting money on this.

[jwolfer]

Sadly, talking to many people (recreational travelers, truckers, vacationers, etc) that the lack of a blue line on the RM atlas precludes them from taking the road simply because the assumption of hundreds of lights slowing them down. They would rather go 100-200 miles extra to 'bypass' a problem that really doesn't exist.

the problem is that Rand McNally and a lot of other companies do not make a distinction between expressway (no traffic lights, driveway access and left turns permitted) and arterial (traffic lights).  I honestly do not care if a road is four-lane divided or undivided - if mainline traffic is allowed to proceed without ever having to stop, then that's a road I would take.  For example, US-27 north of Perry, FL and US-441 through Orlando are both labeled as orange lines.  27 has maybe one traffic light.  441 has hundreds.  the map's ambiguity does not allow me to make an educated decision about these matters.

Amen.  But the map companies cant predict if there is gonna be some spraly development along some roads.  A good 4 land dived US hwy is just as quick as an interstate.  You cant really know from the map-- ie US 1 between Jacksonville and St Augustine was a quick highspeed alternate into St A but now it has traffic lights and development from I-95 south to CR 210.. was a 65MPH speed limit now you are lucky to go the posted 45MPH

This is a problem.  US 1 between Jacksonville and St Augustine was a rural 4 lane divided highway taht was just as fast as I-95 but now susburban development has slowed down US 1 significantly.  Not really a viable alternative.
the problem is that Rand McNally and a lot of other companies do not make a distinction between expressway (no traffic lights, driveway access and left turns permitted) and arterial (traffic lights).  I honestly do not care if a road is four-lane divided or undivided - if mainline traffic is allowed to proceed without ever having to stop, then that's a road I would take.  For example, US-27 north of Perry, FL and US-441 through Orlando are both labeled as orange lines.  27 has maybe one traffic light.  441 has hundreds.  the map's ambiguity does not allow me to make an educated decision about these matters.

oh hai quote-fu

[Sykotyk]

Alps, I'm glad you somehow figured that one out.

And steel, I agree. I suggest a purple route for any limited-interruption road. I.e., no to extremely few stops involved. Frontage and cross roads are okay as long as lights, stop signs, etc are kept to a bare minimum if any at all. US1 from Boston to I-95 north of town qualifies despite huge amounts of frontage (no cross roads or lights). Try taking any other state route and you won't match the speed capable on that stretch.

[brownpelican]

I'm looking at I-49 traffic counts on DOTD's website, and it wasn't pretty on I-49 a decade ago.  Some segments northwest of Alexandria were pulling in traffic counts in the neighborhood of 8,000/day.  Today the low counts have increased into the low to mid teens.  (I'm guessing national awareness of I-49 takes time.)  In 2007 at milepost 131.73, I-49 was pulling in 11,240 per day. 

That's because I-49 hadn't been open that long. Now that I-49 was going to be extended to Kansas City, Mo. and New Orleans, of course it's catching on. It will serve a great purpose: trade from an international port to the heart of America. You can't say the same about the I-85 extension.