EV pickup range while towing

[Scott5114]

Hey, look at this graph you scrolled past to cherry-pick that one.

[tradephoric]

I posted a graph of global greenhouse gas emissions by sector whereas you had cited a graph of U.S greenhouse gas emissions by sector.  It was the same EPA source you had cited.  Climate change is a global issue and it's important to realize that the agriculture sector produces more greenhouse gas emissions than the transportation sector.  In response you just post a random graph that isn't directly related to the conversation we were having.  Not to mention the graph you cited shows methane gas contributing to 16% of global greenhouse gas emissions while the transportation sector accounts for just 14% of global greenhouse gas emissions.  You are further proving the points I've been making all along with you. 

[Scott5114]

Quit bullshitting, tradephoric. You're the one who's so hung up on methane gas emissions from horse farts. Methane is 16% of global emissions. Carbon dioxide is 65%. Cars produce carbon dioxide, not methane. All of that 65% isn't from cars, but if you're going to cut emissions it makes sense to start with carbon dioxide emissions rather than methane.

If you're not going to make an honest argument, you don't need to be posting on this forum.

[tradephoric]

Quit bullshitting, tradephoric. You're the one who's so hung up on methane gas emissions from horse farts. Methane is 16% of global emissions. Carbon dioxide is 65%. Cars produce carbon dioxide, not methane. All of that 65% isn't from cars, but if you're going to cut emissions it makes sense to start with carbon dioxide emissions rather than methane.

If you're not going to make an honest argument, you don't need to be posting on this forum.

You are right only about one-fifth of global Co2 emissions is caused from transport.  So 1/5th of 65% is only 13%... which is less than the 16% global greenhouse gas emissions caused by methane gas.

[Scott5114]

Uh-huh. So explain why banning horses makes more sense than banning cars?

[tradephoric]

Uh-huh. So explain why banning horses makes more sense than banning cars?

It can be hard to answer such open-ended questions.  For one you mention "banning cars".  An electric vehicle is a car so no i don't think we should ban electric vehicles, but a mix of EVs and ICE vehicles makes a lot of sense to me.  I personally don't want to struggle to drive 100 miles between charges when towing a camper at freeway speeds in an EV pickup.  Would you want to deal with that? 

[Scott5114]

Okay, here's one that's less open ended: why do you misrepresent data to support your own pre-ordained conclusions?

[tradephoric]

Earlier you made the assumption that half of all agricultural greenhouse gas emissions was due to horse farts. That was misrepresentative as it massively overestimates the impact horse farts have on greenhouse gas emissions.  But let's just go with it.  When you account for global greenhouse gas emissions horse farts would account for 12% of global greenhouse gas emissions (half of total agriculture emissions).  That's almost on par with the 14% of greenhouse gases the transportation sector emits globally.  You then conclude that anyone tasked on coming up with a way to lower greenhouse gases in the atmosphere that focuses on horse farts is a moron.  The problem is once you locked yourself into that assumption about horse farts the rest of your argument fell apart.

Agriculture is only responsible for 11% of greenhouse gas emissions, and of that 11%, just over half is due to soil management practices. So let's say 5.5% horse farts. By comparison, 27% of greenhouse gas emissions are from transportation.

If you were tasked on coming up with a way to lower greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and you decide to focus on horse farts, you're a moron.

[mgk920]

Okay, here's one that's less open ended: why do you misrepresent data to support your own pre-ordained conclusions?

Quit bullshitting, tradephoric. You're the one who's so hung up on methane gas emissions from horse farts. Methane is 16% of global emissions. Carbon dioxide is 65%. Cars produce carbon dioxide, not methane. All of that 65% isn't from cars, but if you're going to cut emissions it makes sense to start with carbon dioxide emissions rather than methane.

If you're not going to make an honest argument, you don't need to be posting on this forum.

Just over a century ago, gasoline powered cars were regarded as the GODSEND solution to the transportation related pollution problem that had been vexing municipal public works officials going all the way back to well before the Romans.  Any idea what it was?

Mike

[hotdogPi]

Methane stays in the atmosphere for 12 years. Carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for 300-1000 years. (Both numbers were from quick Google searches.) Carbon dioxide is going to build up in a way that methane won't.

Just over a century ago, gasoline powered cars were regarded as the GODSEND solution to the transportation related pollution problem that had been vexing municipal public works officials going all the way back to well before the Romans.

Do you have a source that they even considered there to be a pollution problem?

Even if there was, temperatures didn't start rising significantly until 1910 or so. (I would attribute the earliest increases to industrialization, though.) Local pollution is different from the global climate.



Anyway, horses are very rarely used for transportation anymore, and they don't emit more methane when they're being ridden. We need to look at the 21st century, not the 20th.

[tradephoric]

Do you have a source that they even considered there to be a pollution problem?

Pictures of manure piling up along the streets of New York is the source.  It even has a name... "The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894".  It was a real shit-show back then.

[skluth]

Yes, manure was a problem but it was mostly aesthetic, which is to say it smelled really bad and hard to avoid while walking on the street sometimes. About 500 tons of manure was collected daily in NYC and processed into fertilizer, metaphorically turning lemons into lemonade.

[SEWIGuy]

Okay, here's one that's less open ended: why do you misrepresent data to support your own pre-ordained conclusions?

Quit bullshitting, tradephoric. You're the one who's so hung up on methane gas emissions from horse farts. Methane is 16% of global emissions. Carbon dioxide is 65%. Cars produce carbon dioxide, not methane. All of that 65% isn't from cars, but if you're going to cut emissions it makes sense to start with carbon dioxide emissions rather than methane.

If you're not going to make an honest argument, you don't need to be posting on this forum.

Just over a century ago, gasoline powered cars were regarded as the GODSEND solution to the transportation related pollution problem that had been vexing municipal public works officials going all the way back to well before the Romans.  Any idea what it was?

Mike

OK it was considered a godsend.  No doubt.  But that doesn't preclude that as its use grew, significant impacts became evident.

[skluth]

Okay, here's one that's less open ended: why do you misrepresent data to support your own pre-ordained conclusions?

Quit bullshitting, tradephoric. You're the one who's so hung up on methane gas emissions from horse farts. Methane is 16% of global emissions. Carbon dioxide is 65%. Cars produce carbon dioxide, not methane. All of that 65% isn't from cars, but if you're going to cut emissions it makes sense to start with carbon dioxide emissions rather than methane.

If you're not going to make an honest argument, you don't need to be posting on this forum.

Just over a century ago, gasoline powered cars were regarded as the GODSEND solution to the transportation related pollution problem that had been vexing municipal public works officials going all the way back to well before the Romans.  Any idea what it was?

Mike

OK it was considered a godsend.  No doubt.  But that doesn't preclude that as its use grew, significant impacts became evident.

Also, thalidomide was once considered a godsend to pregnant mothers dealing with morning sickness and other discomforts associated with pregnancy. That didn't turn out so well. 

[Scott5114]

[Max Rockatansky]

FWIW Asbestos is pretty good at being flame resistant.  I still have my asbestos lined fireproof lockbox.

[Scott5114]

FWIW Asbestos is pretty good at being flame resistant.  I still have my asbestos lined fireproof lockbox.

Oh, no doubt. And lead was very good at making paint more durable and faster-drying.

[tradephoric]

In Search of The Coming Ice Age (1978):

There is little doubt that someday the ice will return.  At least 8 times in the past million years, it has advanced and retreated with clockwork regularity.  If we are unprepared for the next advance, the result could be hunger and death on a scale unprecedented in all of history.  What scientists are telling us now is that the threat of an ice age is not as remote as they once thought.  During the lifetime of our grandchildren, arctic cold and perpetual snow could turn most of the inhabitable portions of our planet into a polar desert. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tAYXQPWdC0

[Scott5114]

Yeah, and some day I might shit out a strap of sequentially-numbered red-seal $100 bills.

[Max Rockatansky]

What about random Gamma Ray Bursts and Super Volcano explosions?  One or both could happen at any time...

[hotdogPi]

Solar flares are an actual threat. 1 in 500 150 chance per year. Last one was in 1859, and if it happened again but with current technology, it would cause months-long disruption similar to what COVID did, only with everyone moving away from technology instead of toward it.

EDIT July 21: more common than I remembered

[tradephoric]

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), a solar storm is heading towards earth that may cause power grid fluctuations and interruptions to satellite operations between July 20-22.   

On July 19, parts of North America got the chance to see the northern lights in lower latitudes than usual thanks to a solar storm and now another solar storm is due to hit Earth on July 20.

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), solar winds caused by two recently observed holes in the Sun's corona will arrive between July 20-22, resulting in a G1 geomagnetic storm.

A G1 geomagnetic storm is caused by solar winds hitting the Earth's magnetic field and may result in power grid fluctuations, interruptions to satellite operations and the storm could also cause changes to the behavior of migratory animals.

https://www.newsweek.com/solar-storm-aurora-sun-corona-holes-1726304

[US 89]

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), a solar storm is heading towards earth that may cause power grid fluctuations and interruptions to satellite operations between July 20-22.   

On July 19, parts of North America got the chance to see the northern lights in lower latitudes than usual thanks to a solar storm and now another solar storm is due to hit Earth on July 20.

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), solar winds caused by two recently observed holes in the Sun's corona will arrive between July 20-22, resulting in a G1 geomagnetic storm.

A G1 geomagnetic storm is caused by solar winds hitting the Earth's magnetic field and may result in power grid fluctuations, interruptions to satellite operations and the storm could also cause changes to the behavior of migratory animals.

https://www.newsweek.com/solar-storm-aurora-sun-corona-holes-1726304

There's been stronger geomagnetic storms this year alone. Hardly news.

[Rothman]

I am waiting for the solar poles to reverse.

[SEWIGuy]

In Search of The Coming Ice Age (1978):

There is little doubt that someday the ice will return.  At least 8 times in the past million years, it has advanced and retreated with clockwork regularity.  If we are unprepared for the next advance, the result could be hunger and death on a scale unprecedented in all of history.  What scientists are telling us now is that the threat of an ice age is not as remote as they once thought.  During the lifetime of our grandchildren, arctic cold and perpetual snow could turn most of the inhabitable portions of our planet into a polar desert. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tAYXQPWdC0

Yet another fallacy you incorporate in this discussion.  If science was wrong once, they are clearly are wrong all the time. It's just logical dishonesty.