California High Speed Rail

[OCGuy81]

It's been a talking point.  It's been lauded as a great idea.  It's been criticized as a terrible idea.  It's been a potential horrible allocation of taxpayer money and stimulus funds.  Whatever your opinion is on it, there has been a lot of talk in recent years of high speed rail in California.  Naturally, California being as broke as we are has left this project shelved...for now.

What're your thoughts on high speed rail in California?  I believe it was the OC Register that had an article months ago about a potential line from LA to SF.  Doesn't seem like a bad idea, IMO, catering to a business crowd and alleviating airport and roadway traffic.  Of course, there would be a massive amounts of funds to be found, and a lot of environmental studies and NIMBY issues to clear up, naturally.

I was talking with my neighbor, and he was saying that high speed rail would be very beneficial if a line was built connecting Los Angeles and San Diego to Las Vegas.  I like this idea as well, and I'm positive the casino lobby in Vegas would LOVE this idea and even offer money to lure more Californians out to Vegas!  walking the Strip, you mostly see California plates anyway. I think the LV line would take a lot of LA, OC, and SD county drivers off the 15, and bring a lot more out to the desert.

Pipe dreams for now, but I think high speed rail has benefits.

Any other areas of the country you'd see a benefit?  The NE, maybe between Washington, New York, and Boston?

[citrus]

I'm the "use case" for CA high-speed rail. Live in San Diego, girlfriend lives in San Francisco. I'm usually on Southwest Airlines between the two, but if high-speed rail were built and the same price (or cheaper!), I'd be on that in a heartbeat. With the security line and other airport issues (not to mention delays), it would be around the same travel time. Plus, there are many times I want to head up to SF last minute for a weekend, but I don't want to drive 7-9 hours each way or drop $500 on a last-minute plane ticket.

[nexus73]

High speed surface transport could be done for less by making I-5, I-8, I-10, I-15 and I-40 open country stretches into autobahns.  It would not be as slick as light rail but it would get traffic moving!  Go cheap with just some signs or do it right with better pavement, electronic signage and additional lanes at more expense but it would still be cheaper than bullet trains.

Rick 

[NE2]

A private company is currently planning a line from Victorville to Vegas, connecting to CAHSR at the former. Of course, going to Vegas, economics are distorted.

[myosh_tino]

Unlike the current plan for California High Speed Rail which I think is a project that's way too expensive for the state of California to build and operate, I think a high speed rail line from Los Angeles to Las Vegas is an excellent idea to alleviate the congestion on I-15 between LA and Vegas each weekend.  If I were living in L.A., I would definitely consider taking a bullet train to Vegas rather than driving I-15.

[OCGuy81]

Unlike the current plan for California High Speed Rail which I think is a project that's way too expensive for the state of California to build and operate, I think a high speed rail line from Los Angeles to Las Vegas is an excellent idea to alleviate the congestion on I-15 between LA and Vegas each weekend.  If I were living in L.A., I would definitely consider taking a bullet train to Vegas rather than driving I-15.

So true.  I can't imagine Vegas NOT wanting to free up funds to help build this based on how many Californians it'd bring in on the weekends.

I'm going this weekend....wish I had a bullet train! 

[Quillz]

Are these high-speed rail lines supposed to generally follow interstates? For L.A. -> S.F., is the general idea that it parallels the 5, 580 and 80?

[NE2]

Are these high-speed rail lines supposed to generally follow interstates? For L.A. -> S.F., is the general idea that it parallels the 5, 580 and 80?

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/trip_planner.aspx
http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/uploadedImages/Routes/Project_Sections/Preferred_state_map_FINAL.jpg

It will of course be closer to SR 99 than I-5. In order to avoid crossing the Bay, the line to Frisco will split at SR 152. The alignment will also take the long way around the Grapevine, instead crossing Tehachapi Pass via Palmdale and Mojave. (Palmdale to Victorville would be the most sensible connection to the Vegas line.) Between LA and San Diego it will go via Riverside and I-15.

[roadfro]

Unlike the current plan for California High Speed Rail which I think is a project that's way too expensive for the state of California to build and operate, I think a high speed rail line from Los Angeles to Las Vegas is an excellent idea to alleviate the congestion on I-15 between LA and Vegas each weekend.  If I were living in L.A., I would definitely consider taking a bullet train to Vegas rather than driving I-15.

So true.  I can't imagine Vegas NOT wanting to free up funds to help build this based on how many Californians it'd bring in on the weekends.

There's been talk in the Vegas area about some kind fixed transit between Vegas and the Los Angeles area for a couple decades. First the maglev was the front runner idea, but now the DesertXpress high-speed train is the concept gaining traction.

I think there is some support for DesertXpress from the casino industry, and I know Sen. Harry Reid supports it now. But many people think that it's not really viable in the current proposed form--Vegas to Victorville. Most people think that nobody from LA is going to want to drive to Victorville to take the train. They talk about later phases connecting to the California High Speed Rail system. In my opinion, that connection would be the viable point for DesertXpress--people aren't going to take that line seriously until it connects to LA and a greater system.


EDIT: fixed inaccurate wording.

[mgk920]

^^
I agree, any such service will have to run all the way into Los Angeles Union Station from its opening.

OTOH, in accordance with my strong support for the idea of converting North America's railroads to a European-style system of 'open access', I would have whatever public agency build the line's track infrastructure and then have it be operated by whatever private companies would be willing to go after that business.

Mike

[roadfro]

Speaking of DesertXpress...

Las Vegas Sun, October 10, 2011: "DesertXpress hopes for federal loan, aims for 2012 start on work"
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/oct/10/desertxpress-hopes-federal-loan-aims-2012-start-wo/

[OCGuy81]

Dropping off at Mandalay Bay? Aw man! That's the far south end of the strip! Still, it'd be awesome to have! And I'm sure the casinos would love the extra infusion of capital from LA/OC/SD.

[roadfro]

^ Some original proposals were going to have the train/Maglev/whatever station somewhere in downtown Las Vegas. This was back when a multi-modal transport hub (supporting a new downtown bus terminal, moving Greyhound, a northern extension of the LV Monorail to downtown, etc.) was being talked about...that didn't come to fruition.

[Riverside Frwy]

Are these high-speed rail lines supposed to generally follow interstates? For L.A. -> S.F., is the general idea that it parallels the 5, 580 and 80?

It can't be I-5, as there is NO destinations along I-5's side of the valley. The fact that all the major central valley cities are along CA 99 only makes me wonder even more why it's taking so damn long to make it an Interstate.

Are these high-speed rail lines supposed to generally follow interstates? For L.A. -> S.F., is the general idea that it parallels the 5, 580 and 80?

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/trip_planner.aspx
http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/uploadedImages/Routes/Project_Sections/Preferred_state_map_FINAL.jpg

It will of course be closer to SR 99 than I-5. In order to avoid crossing the Bay, the line to Frisco will split at SR 152. The alignment will also take the long way around the Grapevine, instead crossing Tehachapi Pass via Palmdale and Mojave. (Palmdale to Victorville would be the most sensible connection to the Vegas line.) Between LA and San Diego it will go via Riverside and I-15.

It's also obvious why it's going to Palmdale, as this is a major commuter destination on LA's Metrolink Commuter Rail system and CA 14. Again, nothing on I-5.

[Chris]

Constructing the high-speed rail line in the San Joaquin Valley would be no problem. However, crossing the mountain passes closer to Los Angeles and San Francisco will require some tunneling as you can't have 5% grades with high-speed rail. The real problem however, is getting a ROW within the metropolitan areas. In Europe HSR generally follows existing railway tracks inside urban areas, but the existing rail network within greater Los Angeles doesn't seem to be suited for such a job. They could build it on top of existing freeways or tunnel it, but either option is terribly expensive.

[mgk920]

Constructing the high-speed rail line in the San Joaquin Valley would be no problem. However, crossing the mountain passes closer to Los Angeles and San Francisco will require some tunneling as you can't have 5% grades with high-speed rail. The real problem however, is getting a ROW within the metropolitan areas. In Europe HSR generally follows existing railway tracks inside urban areas, but the existing rail network within greater Los Angeles doesn't seem to be suited for such a job. They could build it on top of existing freeways or tunnel it, but either option is terribly expensive.

You also have that pesky San Andreas Fault to worry about, especially with a long tunnel that would follow the I-5 'Grapevine' route.



Mike

[NE2]

However, crossing the mountain passes closer to Los Angeles and San Francisco will require some tunneling as you can't have 5% grades with high-speed rail.

Perhaps not 5%, but a line in Germany has 4%. Curves, however, are a big problem, and because of that tunnels will be necessary.

The real problem however, is getting a ROW within the metropolitan areas. In Europe HSR generally follows existing railway tracks inside urban areas, but the existing rail network within greater Los Angeles doesn't seem to be suited for such a job. They could build it on top of existing freeways or tunnel it, but either option is terribly expensive.

It will use the existing Metrolink commuter rail right-of-way between LAUPT and Sylmar; see page 25/73 of http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/assets/0/152/256/263/5573bf91d3bf47779b172e4c4afbcf21.pdf .

[Bigmikelakers]

High speed surface transport could be done for less by making I-5, I-8, I-10, I-15 and I-40 open country stretches into autobahns.  It would not be as slick as light rail but it would get traffic moving!  Go cheap with just some signs or do it right with better pavement, electronic signage and additional lanes at more expense but it would still be cheaper than bullet trains.

Rick 

Makes sense to me but probably will never happen.