News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

PA Turnpike News

Started by mightyace, February 16, 2009, 05:29:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Beltway

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on March 14, 2018, 07:17:55 PM
As most know, the Southern Beltway is under construction down to I79, also I understand that ROW work for PA 43 up to the Kennywood area will start soon.

Parts are under construction ...

Due to the complexity of building a new 13 mile roadway, the Route 22 to I-79 project has been divided into 9 construction sections. The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission (PTC) has completed two sections of the project, three sections are in construction, and right-of-way acquisition and final design are in progress for the other four sections.

The Record of Decision (granting environmental clearance) was issued for the project in September 2008. The funding for the U.S. Route 22 to I-79 project is now in place thanks to a boost in funding from Act 89. Estimated cost for this 13 mile section is approximately $700m.

https://www.patpconstruction.com/southern_beltway/22to79/default.aspx
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)


VTGoose

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 14, 2018, 01:41:13 PM

I do recall that the rerouting of U.S. 15 and U.S. 11 near Shamokin Dam was impacted by massive deposits of coal ash (nasty stuff) from a coal-fired generating station there.  PennDOT ended up changing the route because of the cost associated with remediating the coal ash dump.

Wasn't a section of I-99 delayed for several years while the contractor dealt with some nasty (but natural) acidic soil?

Quote
The better question might be this - why was there never a circumferential freeway built around Pittsburgh in the first place?  I realize that there is the (rough) outline of such a road by combining the awful part of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, I-76 (Penna. Turnpike), and I-79 (or part of I-376), but none of those appear to have been routed to be a circumferential, and just combining I-70, I-76 and I-79 into a "beltway" is almost 130 miles (example here).

Terrain would be one of the biggest obstacles to building an actual beltway around the city. There is just no easy way to make a loop without spending a lot of money to make it happen.

Pittsburgh and Allegheny County had a beltway system in the '40s/50s/'60s and beyond but it was laid out on surface streets. The Belt System uses color route identifiers to guide people from place to place in Allegheny County while avoiding going through downtown.
(see for one of the many sites found by searching "Pittsburgh belt roads": http://popularpittsburgh.com/pittsburghs-belt-system-perfect-accessory/)

Another factor is the need or lack thereof for a bypass of the city. The Turnpike, I-79, and to the south I-70 provide "adequate" routes for through travelers to get from point A to point B without the need to actually go through Pittsburgh. It may have changed with the end of the steel industry, but for a long time Pittsburgh was pretty provincial with the city pretty much the center of things. If you lived in the suburbs you really didn't venture much beyond your corner of the county. From Moon Township, Monroeville and the South Hills were known places but there really wasn't much need to go there. Granted, we had the airport that attracted people but they used the Parkway West to reach that destination and really didn't go much into the community. If there was a need to travel somewhere else, like Kennywood, surface streets were sufficient for that trip.

Bruce in Blacksburg (but a native of the 'Burgh)
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

sbeaver44

I believe the section you are talking about of I-99 is at Skytop, between Port Matilda and State College.

Nexus 6P


MASTERNC

Went through the MP 201-206 construction zone this weekend.  Noticed they placed signs on two overpasses for EB traffic...one with the green circle around a truck over the left lane and one with the red "No" symbol through a truck in the right lane (similar to the signs they have shown on VMS).

cpzilliacus

Drove the Northeast Extension (I-476) this past weekend from U.S. 22 to Mid-County.  The next phase of the widening project is starting up, with about 8 or 9 miles of new cattle chute in place starting north of Exit 20 (Lansdale).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

PHLBOS

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 19, 2018, 01:12:28 PMThe next phase of the widening project is starting up, with about 8 or 9 miles of new cattle chute in place starting north of Exit 20 31 (Lansdale).
FTFY
GPS does NOT equal GOD

cpzilliacus

Quote from: PHLBOS on March 19, 2018, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 19, 2018, 01:12:28 PMThe next phase of the widening project is starting up, with about 8 or 9 miles of new cattle chute in place starting north of Exit 20 31 (Lansdale).
FTFY

Thanks.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

#1882
CDLLife.com: Truckers sue Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for $6 billion in "˜unconstitutional' tolls - "Truckers and motorists are not ATMs to fund everything under the sun."

QuoteTwo major trucking groups have filed a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit against Pennsylvania for imposing "excessive tolls"  on drivers.

QuoteThe Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA) and the National Motorists Association filed suit against the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission in a federal court in Harrisburg last week, according to PennLive.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 20, 2018, 10:05:40 AM
CDLLife.com: Truckers sue Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for $6 billion in ‘unconstitutional’ tolls - "Truckers and motorists are not ATMs to fund everything under the sun."

Two major trucking groups have filed a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit against Pennsylvania for imposing “excessive tolls” on drivers.

The Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA) and the National Motorists Association filed suit against the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission in a federal court in Harrisburg last week, according to PennLive.

I don't know if they have much of a fight.  There's numerous roads around where tolls don't go exclusively to the toll road.  I believe the PA Turnpike doesn't even have an out-of-state penalty like other systems have.  And at 13.2 cents per mile (for cars), it's not even the most expensive toll road by far by the mile.  What the PA Turnpike suffers from is simply it's a very long roadway. 

Also, when truckers start to complain they are paying more money but aren't the majority of traffic, they again shift the blame away from the damage they cause.   Trucking agencies for years have tried to complain, sue and do anything they can to sway the public mind...and public officials...and courts...that they are paying more than need be.  It generally hasn't worked.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2018, 10:23:20 AM
I don't know if they have much of a fight.  There's numerous roads around where tolls don't go exclusively to the toll road.  I believe the PA Turnpike doesn't even have an out-of-state penalty like other systems have.  And at 13.2 cents per mile (for cars), it's not even the most expensive toll road by far by the mile.  What the PA Turnpike suffers from is simply it's a very long roadway. 

Also, when truckers start to complain they are paying more money but aren't the majority of traffic, they again shift the blame away from the damage they cause.   Trucking agencies for years have tried to complain, sue and do anything they can to sway the public mind...and public officials...and courts...that they are paying more than need be.  It generally hasn't worked.

I am not at all convinced that they will get the federal court in Harrisburg to go along with what they are asking, but they correctly point out that many of the things that are being funded with the increased tolls have absolutely nothing to do with the PTC's network of toll roads.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Text of the  lawsuit against PTC can be found online here.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

vdeane

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2018, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 20, 2018, 10:05:40 AM
CDLLife.com: Truckers sue Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for $6 billion in ‘unconstitutional’ tolls - "Truckers and motorists are not ATMs to fund everything under the sun."

Two major trucking groups have filed a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit against Pennsylvania for imposing “excessive tolls” on drivers.

The Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA) and the National Motorists Association filed suit against the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission in a federal court in Harrisburg last week, according to PennLive.

I don't know if they have much of a fight.  There's numerous roads around where tolls don't go exclusively to the toll road.  I believe the PA Turnpike doesn't even have an out-of-state penalty like other systems have.  And at 13.2 cents per mile (for cars), it's not even the most expensive toll road by far by the mile.  What the PA Turnpike suffers from is simply it's a very long roadway. 

Also, when truckers start to complain they are paying more money but aren't the majority of traffic, they again shift the blame away from the damage they cause.   Trucking agencies for years have tried to complain, sue and do anything they can to sway the public mind...and public officials...and courts...that they are paying more than need be.  It generally hasn't worked.
PA Turnpike is certainly the most expensive long-distance toll road in the area.  Comparing to bridges/tunnels or to HOT/express lanes is apples-oranges.  The Delaware Turnpike is certainly an outlier, though.  Even using the full length rather than just the tolled section yields a very high per-mile rate.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: vdeane on March 20, 2018, 02:05:20 PM
PA Turnpike is certainly the most expensive long-distance toll road in the area.  Comparing to bridges/tunnels or to HOT/express lanes is apples-oranges.  The Delaware Turnpike is certainly an outlier, though.  Even using the full length rather than just the tolled section yields a very high per-mile rate.

Agree with you regarding the length of the two "long" sections of the  Penn Pike, the East-West Mainline and the Northeast Extension. 

The annoying thing about the Penn Pike is that the tolls will be going up forever on an annual basis (I suppose at some point they get close to infinity).

Regarding the Delaware Turnpike, I am happy  to report that I shunpiked its excessive tolls just the other day (southbound my preferred route is DE-896 south to a right on Old Baltimore Pike west to the Maryland border, then continue a short distance on MD-281 to a new roundabout, right on Muddy Lane north, which takes a twisting path back to MD-279 just south of the I-95 interchange.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

02 Park Ave

Wasn't there a lawsuit recently by truckers against the NYS Thruway over toll rates regarding its financial support of the Barge Canal?
C-o-H

ARMOURERERIC

And if the Truckers win what is there to stop the PTC from going "no trucks"?

PHLBOS

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on March 20, 2018, 04:02:21 PMAnd if the Truckers win what is there to stop the PTC from going "no trucks"?
Obstruction of (Interstate) Commerce.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on March 20, 2018, 03:14:53 PM
Wasn't there a lawsuit recently by truckers against the NYS Thruway over toll rates regarding its financial support of the Barge Canal?
Also all the other canals.  I presume that one disappeared when the Canal Corporation was transferred to the Power Authority, rendering the lawsuit moot.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on March 20, 2018, 04:02:21 PM
And if the Truckers win what is there to stop the PTC from going "no trucks"?

Never happen. 

PTC would rapidly become insolvent without the toll revenue paid by trucks, especially on the E-W Mainline and Northeast Extension (note that it may become insolvent anyway, because of the Act 44 payments).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

RobbieL2415


ekt8750


thenetwork


jeffandnicole


theroadwayone

In case nobody's mentioned it, the Keyser Avenue and Clarks Summit toll plazas on the NE Extension (I-476) are going all-electronic on the 29th. That, and toll rates there are going up.

theroadwayone

So once that's done, all that's left will be PA 66, the Mon-Fayette Expressway, the Southern Beltway (coming soon,) and Gateway. Then it's onto the ticket system.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.