Syracuse - I-81

[Henry]

For further elaboration/clarification, they're only talking about tearing down the elevated segment of I-81 that is south of I-690.

Oh i see.. if they HAVE to tear down I-81 south of I-690... man.. I support rebuilding that section (i bet it'd be VERY expensive.)

Well, there's always the Big Dig option. Sure, it'd be very expensive, but nowhere near what it was in Boston, probably since Syracuse is smaller than that.

[Alps]

is there a bypass available in Moscow?

Yeah, one 10 lane beltway for a city the size of the Los Angeles metropolitan area.. 

The thing with Moscow is that until just over 20 years ago, few Muscovites owned or used cars - private enterprise and the accumulation of things were very strongly discouraged by the Communists - and thus, major urban motorways were not needed nor built in Moscow.  Improvements have been made since The Wall fell and more highway upgrade projects are under construction in and around Moscow, but yes, they have a loooooong way to go in their game of 'catch-up' with the needs of the 'new normal' that the fall of the Commies brought on.

As for I-81 south of I-690, is the idea by some to simply remove it with nothing other than a surface street being built in its place?  If so, that would be a bad idea, indeed.

Mike

The idea is to get all the through traffic onto I-481 - yes, several miles longer and C-shaped, but avoids the city. Only local traffic would head on in to downtown and get served. I-481 may or may not have the capacity now, and it certainly wouldn't if Syracuse ever attracts suburban development beyond what it has.

[froggie]

Even if through traffic was shunted to I-481, there's enough spare capacity to absorb a good bit of suburban development.  Just might need a couple auxiliary lanes near I-690.

[vdeane]

If I-481 were to take on all that through traffic, it needs an extra lane each way.  Theoretically it should have that through traffic now, but nobody uses it for those reasons.  IMO it's also a lot less interesting than I-81.  It is 65 the whole way though (I-81 even goes down to 45 near I-690).

[froggie]

If I-481 were to take on all that through traffic, it needs an extra lane each way.

No it doesn't, just like I mentioned before.  There's not enough through traffic currently using I-81 to warrant widening I-481 if it were on that road instead.

[Michael]

The busiest section of I-81 between each end of I-481 is the segment between I-690 and NY 298/Bear St. with 101,350 AADT.  I-81 seems to average 50,000 AADT in the other areas between the ends of I-481.  I-481's busiest segment is between NY 5/92 and I-690 with 63,190 AADT.  This segment has three lanes in each direction.  The rest of I-481 has about 30,000 AADT.  These numbers are from 2009, which is the most recent year available on NYSDOT's website.

[Alps]

The busiest section of I-81 between each end of I-481 is the segment between I-690 and NY 298/Bear St. with 101,350 AADT.  I-81 seems to average 50,000 AADT in the other areas between the ends of I-481.  I-481's busiest segment is between NY 5/92 and I-690 with 63,190 AADT.  This segment has three lanes in each direction.  The rest of I-481 has about 30,000 AADT.  These numbers are from 2009, which is the most recent year available on NYSDOT's website.

I would imagine the extra 51,350 AADT is the local traffic you'd keep on the 81 corridor, and the 50,000 is what you'd add to I-481. 80,000 AADT really ought to have three lanes, and 103,190 AADT would probably warrant a fourth auxiliary lane to keep traffic flowing. (Not that you couldn't handle it in three lanes if needed.)

[froggie]

and the 50,000 is what you'd add to I-481.

Doubtful.  If you're looking at through traffic, you're looking at what I-81 volumes are like *OUTSIDE* of I-481, not inside...the volumes inside are heavily influence by local traffic.  And since the south side has the lower volumes and I-81 would remain north of I-690, you'd look at the volumes to the south. And that total number is 37K south of I-481 on the south side.  It stands to reason that Syracuse proper is the origin/destination for most of that traffic, so I have doubts you'd add any more than about 20K to I-481 if they removed the suggested segment of I-81.

[vdeane]

Don't forget there's a lot of Thruway-bound through traffic on that section of I-81.  Currently the south-west corridor uses I-690 for eastbound/southbound and I-81 for westbound/northbound.  All of this traffic would have to use I-481 (the north-west and both east corridors are unchanged).

Also, I've driven on I-481.  Parts of it are quite congested and full of drivers that don't seem to know that the speed limit is 65.  The section between I-690 and I-90 is particularly bad.  And I-81 near Syracuse (at least to the north until Watertown) has as much through traffic as the Thruway since it's upstate NY's primary north-south road.

[Buummu]

Yeah I also drove on I-481 as well, the bypass should be widened. especially between the Thruway and I-690 like deanej said. it was so bad the traffic backed up at each rush hour at the thruway interchange.

[yakra]

The free newspaper at the Dunkin Donuts in Oswego had a cover story about... arrgh I-81 somethingorother; I'm kicking myself for not picking one up

[mightyace]

Just did a quick look at the map and if this ever came to pass it would be slightly similar to I-83/Bus I-83 (old US 111) around York, PA.  I-83 goes around the city and Bus I-83 (old US 111) goes straight and is partial freeway but mostly arterial.

The biggest difference is that Bus I-83/old US 111 was never a freeway all the way through York.

[Michael]

I just found some photos of the construction of I-81/I-690 in Downtown Syracuse on The I-81 Challenge's Facebook Page.