Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

[iBallasticwolf2]

Does anyone think the HOT Lanes will eventually encompass the entire 64-mile beltway? I think it should.

Probably not in our lifetimes. It would require a full rebuild or new span to the Francis Scott Key Bridge and it would require a rebuild of the Curtis Creek Bridge.

[1995hoo]

Does anyone think the HOT Lanes will eventually encompass the entire 64-mile beltway? I think it should.

I do not believe that will happen. As cpzilliacus notes, there are serious space issues in the places where they might be most useful. In the areas where there is potentially some space, I'm not sure they're needed–through the Beltway's southeastern section in PG County (between, say, Route 210 and Central Avenue) traffic is quite heavy, but it usually moves well enough unless there's been an accident. It's also unclear whether Maryland authorities have any interest in the HO/T concept. Note the I-95 Express Toll Lanes northeast of Baltimore, which do not provide an HOV exemption of the sort seen with Virginia's lanes.

I suppose on the PG County segment I mentioned, priced managed lanes might provide a respite from the lunatic drivers who make that portion of the Beltway unpleasant, but if that were the reason for building them, I suppose the stupid "Lexus Lanes" terminology might be justified because having lanes like that just to provide a more peaceful ride smacks of a "luxury" feature.

Does anyone think the HOT Lanes will eventually encompass the entire 64-mile beltway? I think it should.

Probably not in our lifetimes. It would require a full rebuild or new span to the Francis Scott Key Bridge and it would require a rebuild of the Curtis Creek Bridge.

You do realize the Baltimore Beltway is not 64 miles around? I believe it's a tad over 50 miles.

[cpzilliacus]

Does anyone think the HOT Lanes will eventually encompass the entire 64-mile beltway? I think it should.

Probably not in our lifetimes. It would require a full rebuild or new span to the Francis Scott Key Bridge and it would require a rebuild of the Curtis Creek Bridge.

Traffic volumes on I-695/Md. 695 (the Baltimore Beltway) between the I-95 stack interchange near Overlea and the I-97 interchange at Glen Burnie (and including the toll-maintained section between Md. 10 (Exit 3) and Md. 151 (Exit 42) do not currently justify anything of the sort.

[froggie]

CP:  as Hoo noted, I think he was confusing the DC beltway with the Baltimore Beltway and/or confusing the Key Bridge with the Legion Bridge.

[iBallasticwolf2]

CP:  as Hoo noted, I think he was confusing the DC beltway with the Baltimore Beltway and/or confusing the Key Bridge with the Legion Bridge.

Opps. I didn't think that. But anyway to alter my statement I don't think the HOT lanes will ever encompass the whole beltway.

[1995hoo]

CP:  as Hoo noted, I think he was confusing the DC beltway with the Baltimore Beltway and/or confusing the Key Bridge with the Legion Bridge.

I was unsure whether he was confused or whether he was intentionally being snarky, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt!

[cpzilliacus]

CP:  as Hoo noted, I think he was confusing the DC beltway with the Baltimore Beltway and/or confusing the Key Bridge with the Legion Bridge.

I agree.  I wanted to be very clear about where any expansion (HOV, HOV/Toll or ETL) would not be needed, unless the revitalization of the Sparrows Point steel mill site is wildly successful.

[AlexandriaVA]

Has anyone noticed that the HOV access gates in Transurban territory (at least along the stretch of 395 that I drive) now have little orange flags on them? I never noticed it before (going back to the 1990s). GSV won't have it because it's new within the last few months.

Edit: Whoops, noticed this was posted back in June-

Transurban has begun to install red flags with white Xs onto the barrier gates along the 95 Express Lanes.  You know.  In case you don't notice 16 closed gates with red lights on them.

Mike

[AlexandriaVA]

http://wtop.com/traffic/2015/09/virginia-may-extend-95-express-lanes-395/

Virginia could announce plans to extend the 95 Express Lanes along Interstate 395 to near the D.C. line by the end of the year, Virginia Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne says.

"We continue to work with our partners there, and on the southern end also where we have the backup, and we're working through those and hope the governor will have an announcement on that sometime later this year,"  Layne says.

That'd make quick waste to the newly-built exit ramp at Turkeycock. At this point it makes the most sense just to HOT the entire middle carriageway its entire length.

If it got to that point, I wonder if DC would seek to turn the Rochambeau Bridge into a peak-hour tolled express bridge, seeing as there would be a free alternative on Arland Williams in the morning and George Mason in the afternoon.

Even if they didn't run the bridge tolling themselves, Transurban would still heavily lobby in favor of it, because they could then advertise a guaranteed express route from the southern end of the HOT complex all the way to downtown DC. You'd still get a backup as express bridge traffic filters into downtown, but you'd still pass a significant portion of the queue.

It would also benefit South Arlington Metrobuses which use 395 to get to the Pentagon, because there would be no more free-use hours on the 395 HOT lanes. So for example, a bus traveling to the Pentagon entering 395 around 9:30 AM would use the HOT lanes, and not have to compete against the people who have historically waited until 9 AM to enter into the HOV facility (and likewise, 6 PM on their trip home).

[1995hoo]

DC authorities have made very preliminary comments about the idea of HO/T lanes on I-295, I-695, and I-395. I think we discussed it further back in this thread and cpzilliacus noted if it came to pass, it'd make it harder for Arlington to put up a serious fight against HO/T on I-395.

I wonder whether Arlington has changed its position. Their intransigence is why the lanes now end at Turkeycock.

I don't think the new exit at Turkeycock would be useless with the extension of HO/T, though. I thought that ramp should have been built sooner when HOV was extended south from Springfield in the early 1990s. It helps take some of the strain off the mainline through Springfield and at the point where Beltway traffic merges in. Remember previously anyone not heading at least to Route 27 had to exit at the Newington flyover and go through Springfield. The new Turkeycock ramp alleviates that.

[AlexandriaVA]

DC authorities have made very preliminary comments about the idea of HO/T lanes on I-295, I-695, and I-395. I think we discussed it further back in this thread and cpzilliacus noted if it came to pass, it'd make it harder for Arlington to put up a serious fight against HO/T on I-395.

I wonder whether Arlington has changed its position. Their intransigence is why the lanes now end at Turkeycock.

I don't think the new exit at Turkeycock would be useless with the extension of HO/T, though. I thought that ramp should have been built sooner when HOV was extended south from Springfield in the early 1990s. It helps take some of the strain off the mainline through Springfield and at the point where Beltway traffic merges in. Remember previously anyone not heading at least to Route 27 had to exit at the Newington flyover and go through Springfield. The new Turkeycock ramp alleviates that.

Once the Mark Center ramp opens up, and IF the remainder of 395 gets the HOT treatment, who would actually need to get off at Turkeycock? Somebody going to Ft. Belvoir Proving Ground Site would use the relatively-new single-purpose ramp near Backlick, somebody going to Mark Center would use the soon-to-be-new Seminary exit, and the remainder would go to Pentagon/City or continue on to DC.

The only drivers I could see finding utility in the Turkeycock exit at that point would be:

1) HOT drivers who happen to want to save money by getting off the HOT lanes if traffic in the general lanes is within their tolerance (thereby avoiding the last tolling segments through Alexandria and Arlington).
2) HOT drivers who need to get off at Duke Street. Possibly King Street, Shirlington and Glebe, as drivers using the Seminary off-ramp would need to go through a few light cycles to get to those locations via Van Dorn, Beauregard/Walter Reed, or back on the 395 general lanes.

People in column 1, I'm sure exist. I just don't know how many people fall into column 2. Outside of maybe retail workers who live in Prince William and southern Fairfax County who work in the Landmark and Shirlington areas, but I doubt that low-wage workers would be taking HOT lanes anyway.

[1995hoo]

That ramp near Backlick isn't an exit. It's entrance-only and only when the reversible lanes point south.

The Turkeycock ramp will be important for managing the tolls because it allows for a segment break such that from there north to DC can be tolled separately. If the toll is too high for your taste, you exit. I could see it being pretty high at certain times.

It's also useful for people who might want to use Exit 8A towards Clarendon or Ballston, though it might be faster (once the current construction on Route 27 above Route 110 is done) to stay in the reversible lanes, exit towards Memorial Bridge, and backtrack on Route 50. I never go that way in the mornings so I don't know for sure.

Don't underestimate the number of people who do use Duke Street to connect to various places. May be more of them when the TSA moves to its new headquarters on Eisenhower Avenue in a few years. It can often be faster to go HO/T to Duke, then down Van Dorn to Eisenhower, rather than putting up with the morning slowdown on the Outer Loop.

[AlexandriaVA]

I stand corrected about the Backlick ramp - Although with where the barrier is (on Heller Road), in theory they could be able to turn it into an off-HOT-onto-local ramp in the AM. Drivers would come up off the ramp and instead of turning left into FBNA, just continue straight onto the northbound general purpose 95 lanes.

Agree that Turkeycock ramp would help a notional Springfield-to-Clarendon/Ballston commuter, but are there really that many of them? I would figure that more would elect to live west of there and take the western approach highways (66, US 50, US 29, etc) I could believe Rosslyn taking on a lot of commuters from the southern suburbs, but Rosslyn has more one-seat rides on transit from the southern suburbs as well (Blue Line, PRTC, etc)

We'll see what TSA yields. Like BRAC-133, this move will take a lot people who were near Metro, in this case right above the Pentagon City Metro, and move them to a sort-of-close, but-not-really-that-close Metro location.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Key decision on Virginia toll lanes lawsuit to come in a few weeks

A federal judge will decide in a few weeks if he will throw out or move forward with a class-action lawsuit claiming that the company in charge of running the Interstate 495 toll lanes in Northern Virginia hit drivers with excessive administrative fees and fines, some reaching into the tens of thousands of dollars for minor violations.

U.S. District Judge James C. Cacheris heard arguments on the suit Thursday in federal district court in Alexandria, asking questions of all those involved and offering few hints about which way he might be leaning. He said he would decide whether he should move the case forward or throw it out in a couple weeks after reviewing a transcript of the hearing.

The suit alleges that Transurban essentially preyed on toll lane users who had problems with their E-ZPass devices, slapping them with steep administrative fees when they did not immediately pay for driving on toll roads, then following up with claims in civil court for thousands of dollars. The suit names seven toll lane users from Maryland and Virginia as plaintiffs who claim the company wanted to collect nearly $70,000 in penalties and fees from them for just more than $200 in inadvertently missed tolls.

[cpzilliacus]

DC authorities have made very preliminary comments about the idea of HO/T lanes on I-295, I-695, and I-395. I think we discussed it further back in this thread and cpzilliacus noted if it came to pass, it'd make it harder for Arlington to put up a serious fight against HO/T on I-395.

DDOT seems to be serious about pricing certain parts of its highway network (something I personally agree with, BTW).  Dr. Gridlock wrote about it back in April 2014 here (I see that Adam [Froggie] commented, but you did not).

I wonder whether Arlington has changed its position. Their intransigence is why the lanes now end at Turkeycock.

Back in July 2015, Gov. Terry McAuliffe said this on WTOP's "Ask the Governor" radio show [emphasis added]:

But the governor also wants to add tolled express lanes to river crossings into D.C. and Maryland. McAuliffe said state transportation officials are negotiating to extend the 395 Express Lanes and address congestion as commuters enter the District.

There have been no days of rage and no threats of litigation from Arlington's elected officials since Gov. McAuliffe said that (in a reasonably public venue).  And the primary ringleader of such opposition (including the federal lawsuit) on the Arlington County Board when the deal with Transurban was being discussed previously  has resigned his seat and is now doing other things.

I don't think the new exit at Turkeycock would be useless with the extension of HO/T, though. I thought that ramp should have been built sooner when HOV was extended south from Springfield in the early 1990s. It helps take some of the strain off the mainline through Springfield and at the point where Beltway traffic merges in. Remember previously anyone not heading at least to Route 27 had to exit at the Newington flyover and go through Springfield. The new Turkeycock ramp alleviates that.

I agree. It allows traffic to leave the managed lanes to get to places along and near Va. 236 (Duke Street) when needed. The ramp at Seminary Road will be a rather clunky way to get to a lot of destinations in Alexandria east of I-395.

[AlexandriaVA]

The ramp at Seminary Road will be a rather clunky way to get to a lot of destinations in Alexandria east of I-395.

Until VA builds HOT facilities on the Beltway east of Springfield. Isn't that the logical conclusions of all of this - HOT facilities on 3/95, 66, and 495?

[mrsman]

DC authorities have made very preliminary comments about the idea of HO/T lanes on I-295, I-695, and I-395. I think we discussed it further back in this thread and cpzilliacus noted if it came to pass, it'd make it harder for Arlington to put up a serious fight against HO/T on I-395.

DDOT seems to be serious about pricing certain parts of its highway network (something I personally agree with, BTW).  Dr. Gridlock wrote about it back in April 2014 here (I see that Adam [Froggie] commented, but you did not).

I wonder whether Arlington has changed its position. Their intransigence is why the lanes now end at Turkeycock.

Back in July 2015, Gov. Terry McAuliffe said this on WTOP's "Ask the Governor" radio show [emphasis added]:

But the governor also wants to add tolled express lanes to river crossings into D.C. and Maryland. McAuliffe said state transportation officials are negotiating to extend the 395 Express Lanes and address congestion as commuters enter the District.

There have been no days of rage and no threats of litigation from Arlington's elected officials since Gov. McAuliffe said that (in a reasonably public venue).  And the primary ringleader of such opposition (including the federal lawsuit) on the Arlington County Board when the deal with Transurban was being discussed previously  has resigned his seat and is now doing other things.

I don't think the new exit at Turkeycock would be useless with the extension of HO/T, though. I thought that ramp should have been built sooner when HOV was extended south from Springfield in the early 1990s. It helps take some of the strain off the mainline through Springfield and at the point where Beltway traffic merges in. Remember previously anyone not heading at least to Route 27 had to exit at the Newington flyover and go through Springfield. The new Turkeycock ramp alleviates that.

I agree. It allows traffic to leave the managed lanes to get to places along and near Va. 236 (Duke Street) when needed. The ramp at Seminary Road will be a rather clunky way to get to a lot of destinations in Alexandria east of I-395.

Perhaps the people of Arlington have had a change of heart.  They opposed the HOT lanes as they were being proposed but would now be willing to consider them now that the rest of the network is in operation.

I don't see how converting the existing HOV lanes to HOT would be detrimental to Arlington.  By avoiding people jostling between the HOT lanes and the general lanes, there will be fewer backups for all on 395 (and fewer people exiting the highway to avoid backups).

I could see Arlington being concerned about a highway widening, but I believe that traffic would flow pretty well in the express lanes even without a widening if the rules for using the lanes were consistent throughout I-395.

[1995hoo]

I rather doubt the Democrat board of supervisors in Arlington would care if their constituents supported HO/T lanes. The board has been totally transit-focused for years. Maybe things might change since that pro-streetcar guy lost his seat.

(This is not to say it's wrong for Arlington to focus more on transit, given its location and the demographics along Columbia Pike. But to focus solely on transit while fighting all road improvements is short-sighted.)

[AlexandriaVA]

I'm not seeing much potential utility to Arlington residents. The only point in Arlington where one could presently pick up the HO/T lanes would be the Shirlington Rotary. I can't imagine that there are too many people solo drivers in South Arlington/Northern Alexandria who would pay a toll to go a short distance on 395 to the Pentagon/14th Street Bridge, particularly as South Arlington is pretty well-served by Metrobus and ART.

I rather doubt the Democrat board of supervisors in Arlington would care if their constituents supported HO/T lanes.

I know of no latent demand for HO/T in South Arlington. With the cancellation of the streetcar, the only real big possible project which would benefit the area is a Columbia Pike Metro line (which in fact was part of the original plan, and stub tunnel exists near the Pentagon which was built back in the 70s so as to allow a future Columbia Pike line).

Again, while the distance commuters (southern Fairfax and points beyond) might really see some benefit from HO/T, I just don't see it for these parts. Particularly with the limited access points (I can't picture any more being built either).

But to focus solely on transit while fighting all road improvements is short-sighted

That's not a fair assessment. Arlington is effectively fully built-out. It's not like there's fallow land where one could build a 4-lane parkway like you have out in Loudoun County or something like that. Or the newly-built Jeff Todd Way down by Belvoir. Much of the road budget is going to go towards maintenance because there just really aren't any more roads to be built or "improved" (which is usually code for widening). For instance, Columbia Pike was is presently in a project of phased repaving and utility underground-ing. What more do you want on that corridor? There's no room or desire to expand it. So you maintain it as they did and call it a day.

Interestingly enough, there are some new roads being built in Arlington, such as near Columbia Pike and in Pentagon City. In both cases, the new roads are built in tandem with new developments, and they are built in concert with the existing road network in order to build a denser road grid.

[noelbotevera]

MD could use them between VA 267 and I-270. Traffic really moves, but if anything bad happens, it quickly becomes The 405 and is bumper to bumper traffic.

[Zzonkmiles]

MD could use them between VA 267 and I-270. Traffic really moves, but if anything bad happens, it quickly becomes The 405 and is bumper to bumper traffic.

I just drove on this section of the beltway about a week ago. I think it's the only part of the beltway that is only three lanes wide in each direction.

[davewiecking]

MD could use them between VA 267 and I-270. Traffic really moves, but if anything bad happens, it quickly becomes The 405 and is bumper to bumper traffic.

I just drove on this section of the beltway about a week ago. I think it's the only part of the beltway that is only three lanes wide in each direction.

The stretch between I-270 and I-270-Y is indeed the only section of the Beltway that's only 3 lanes each way. Nothing would be gained by adding lanes to this stretch.

[mrsman]

MD could use them between VA 267 and I-270. Traffic really moves, but if anything bad happens, it quickly becomes The 405 and is bumper to bumper traffic.

I just drove on this section of the beltway about a week ago. I think it's the only part of the beltway that is only three lanes wide in each direction.

The stretch between I-270 and I-270-Y is indeed the only section of the Beltway that's only 3 lanes each way. Nothing would be gained by adding lanes to this stretch.

That's true, although it would be nice if they had a way of widening the inner loop from I-270 to at least Connecticut by one more lane.  Effectively, only 2 of the Beltway lanes continue as the right lane forces an exit onto MD 355.  If all 3 lanes could continue for another mile that would be a big help.

But even still, it wouldn't change the fact as correctly noted above that between the 270 and the spur, the beltway widening would not be helpful since the other parts are too narrow.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Virginia to extend I-95/395 HOT lanes north to D.C. line

The Virginia government and a private partner have reached agreement on another expansion of the HOT lanes network in the D.C. region. This program will take the 95 Express Lanes north eight miles to the D.C. line, replacing the High-Occupancy Vehicle system on Interstate 395 up to the area near the Pentagon.

State Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne said in an interview that VDOT and the Transurban company are in accord on a plan to add an extra lane to today's two-lane HOV system while making relatively minor adjustments in the rest of the I-395 set up. Layne informed the local governments of Arlington and Fairfax counties and the city of Alexandria about the plan Friday, and said he was looking forward to working with them on advancing the program to construction in 2017, with an opening two years later.

As was the case with the 95 Express Lanes, which opened in December, drivers who meet the HOV3 rules will be able to travel for free in the I-395 express lanes, as long as they have an E-ZPass Flex transponder switched to the HOV setting. Drivers who don't meet the three-person carpool standard will have access to these new high-occupancy toll lanes if they are willing to pay a variable toll that rises as high as it takes to maintain free-flowing traffic. Those drivers would pay the toll via E-ZPass.

The new plan, Layne said, will guarantee funding for new or enhanced transit service and carpooling along the I-95/395 corridor. It scratches an old plan that would have built a new ramp at the Shirlington interchange on I-395.

The HOV ramp now under construction at Seminary Road, near the Mark Center, still will be for HOV traffic only, even under the HOT lanes plan. The drivers who enter the HOT lanes there will have to meet the HOV rules, so toll payers will be excluded. (They've yet to work out exactly how they're going to do that.)

[AlexandriaVA]

The Virginia government and a private partner have reached agreement on another expansion of the HOT lanes network in the D.C. region. This program will take the 95 Express Lanes north eight miles to the D.C. line, replacing the High-Occupancy Vehicle system on Interstate 395 up to the area near the Pentagon.

To not include DC. I presume Transurban will have their gaze fixed on HOT-ing the middle span of the 14th Street Bridge complex (Rochambeau Bridge span). Plenty of new challenges to clear there (DC and federal regulations).

State Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne said in an interview that VDOT and the Transurban company are in accord on a plan to add an extra lane to today's two-lane HOV system while making relatively minor adjustments in the rest of the I-395 set up. Layne informed the local governments of Arlington and Fairfax counties and the city of Alexandria about the plan Friday, and said he was looking forward to working with them on advancing the program to construction in 2017, with an opening two years later.

Current arrangement is Shoulder/Reversible Lane/Reversible Lane/Shoulder. Figure they'll just remove one shoulder and maybe jigger with the lane widths a little.

As was the case with the 95 Express Lanes, which opened in December, drivers who meet the HOV3 rules will be able to travel for free in the I-395 express lanes, as long as they have an E-ZPass Flex transponder switched to the HOV setting. Drivers who don't meet the three-person carpool standard will have access to these new high-occupancy toll lanes if they are willing to pay a variable toll that rises as high as it takes to maintain free-flowing traffic. Those drivers would pay the toll via E-ZPass.

The new plan, Layne said, will guarantee funding for new or enhanced transit service and carpooling along the I-95/395 corridor. It scratches an old plan that would have built a new ramp at the Shirlington interchange on I-395.

As a resident within earshot  of 395, I'll be happy is Transurban pays for more Metrobus/ART routes in that area.

The HOV ramp now under construction at Seminary Road, near the Mark Center, still will be for HOV traffic only, even under the HOT lanes plan. The drivers who enter the HOT lanes there will have to meet the HOV rules, so toll payers will be excluded. (They've yet to work out exactly how they're going to do that.)

That'll be complicated. I guess you can only use the ramp if your EZ-Pass FLEX is in carpool mode. Boy that's going to be confusing for people.

I read the general overview, and it looks like the only place that is going to get major work done is the Eads Street off-ramp. My guess is that Transurban wants to be able to get their customers off of the HOT carriageway faster (it usually backs up in the morning). Bus commuters will also benefit, if they figure out a way to give precedence to people coming off of the HOT carriageway into the Pentagon over the general-purpose northbound lanes.