Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

[Beltway]

I won't be using I-395, and few inter-regional travelers such as myself will, so that is a whole nother group of people who will be using that.

Few inter-regional travelers likely use the I-95 and I-495 lanes as well. I probably sound like a broken record, but the majority of traffic is local, not thru.

I would need to see the results of traffic engineering studies to do exact analysis, but I see plenty of out of state plates on the HOT lanes from the well known EZPass states, including Maryland which while "local" in some ways, a Maryland vehicle in Virginia is still "inter-regional."

[AlexandriaVA]

Who cares about long-haul travelers. Interstates should support the local metro areas...long-haul drivers (outside of truckers) are a niche market segment anyways. For long distances, people fly or take the train (at least on the east coast).

[jeffandnicole]

Let's say the HOT lanes carry 20,000 people in rush hour period.  You're bound to see several out of state tags, but even 200 of them is only 1% of traffic.

It won't need engineering work. It'll just need Transurban to release stats on whose utilized the lanes.

[Beltway]

Who cares about long-haul travelers. Interstates should support the local metro areas...long-haul drivers (outside of truckers) are a niche market segment anyways. For long distances, people fly or take the train (at least on the east coast).

I am one of those long distance travelers, at least in the sense of benefitting from the HOT lanes on I-95 and I-495.

I'm not going the take a plane or train to go from Virginia to Maryland.  Unless it is Amtrak or WMATA and I am going to a central station.

Let's say the HOT lanes carry 20,000 people in rush hour period.  You're bound to see several out of state tags, but even 200 of them is only 1% of traffic.

Probably about 15% to 20%.

It won't need engineering work. It'll just need Transurban to release stats on whose utilized the lanes.

Send an e-mail and ask them, or VDOT.  Summary data should be available by FOIA request.

[jeffandnicole]

Who cares about long-haul travelers. Interstates should support the local metro areas...long-haul drivers (outside of truckers) are a niche market segment anyways. For long distances, people fly or take the train (at least on the east coast).

I am one of those long distance travelers, at least in the sense of benefitting from the HOT lanes on I-95 and I-495.

Let's say the HOT lanes carry 20,000 people in rush hour period.  You're bound to see several out of state tags, but even 200 of them is only 1% of traffic.

Probably about 15% to 20%.

1 in 5 vehicles being an out of state motorist during rush hour is mockingly laughable.

It won't need engineering work. It'll just need Transurban to release stats on whose utilized the lanes.

Send an e-mail and ask them, or VDOT.  Summary data should be available by FOIA request.
[/quote]

I'm not the one concerned about it.

[Beltway]

Let's say the HOT lanes carry 20,000 people in rush hour period.  You're bound to see several out of state tags, but even 200 of them is only 1% of traffic.

Probably about 15% to 20%.

1 in 5 vehicles being an out of state motorist during rush hour is mockingly laughable.

Go ahead and have a good horselaugh!  :-) 

In the center of rush hours, probably yeah.  I'm usually on the periphery of rush hours.

[sprjus4]

Who cares about long-haul travelers. Interstates should support the local metro areas...long-haul drivers (outside of truckers) are a niche market segment anyways. For long distances, people fly or take the train (at least on the east coast).

I am one of those long distance travelers, at least in the sense of benefitting from the HOT lanes on I-95 and I-495.

Let's say the HOT lanes carry 20,000 people in rush hour period.  You're bound to see several out of state tags, but even 200 of them is only 1% of traffic.

Probably about 15% to 20%.

1 in 5 vehicles being an out of state motorist during rush hour is mockingly laughable.

But remember, there's a large amount of thru traffic that clutters Northern Virginia, and Maryland's lack of bypass is the sole reason congestion exists.

By out of state, are you referring to Maryland plates?

[Beltway]

But remember, there's a large amount of thru traffic that clutters Northern Virginia, and Maryland's lack of bypass is the sole reason congestion exists.

"Maryland's lack of [a] bypass is the sole reason congestion exists."

That is what is known as a Strawman Fallacy.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy

[Alps]

But remember, there's a large amount of thru traffic that clutters Northern Virginia, and Maryland's lack of bypass is the sole reason congestion exists.

"Maryland's lack of [a] bypass is the sole reason congestion exists."

That is what is known as a Strawman Fallacy.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy

I think it's known as mocking.

[Beltway]

But remember, there's a large amount of thru traffic that clutters Northern Virginia, and Maryland's lack of bypass is the sole reason congestion exists.

"Maryland's lack of [a] bypass is the sole reason congestion exists."
That is what is known as a Strawman Fallacy.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy

I think it's known as mocking.

There is a progression series in human conflict when someone keeps saying the same thing over and over again, where you can express to the person in question --
1. Irritation
2. Annoyance
3. Sarcasm
4. Mockery
5. Derision

If you don't consider using this process, then you risk the other person using you as a foil, so that they can keep saying the same thing over and over again.

Hopefully you won't need to go thru all the steps.

[Mapmikey]

BTW, out of curiosity I looked to see what they're estimating the toll to be from the Beltway to DC via I-395. As of about 4:55 this afternoon the website said $4.35. I don't know what the signs on the road show, whether they continue to list "395-236" as the last line because it's the end of a "segment" or whether they show I-395 destinations, and I don't know whether the I-95 lanes will show up as a separate transaction on an E-ZPass statement than the I-395 lanes. I might see the signs tomorrow morning on my way to the Springfield Metro unless I go to Huntington. As to the other question, maybe I'll find out next weekend if the lanes are pointing in the correct direction for Saturday afternoon's Caps game (they probably won't be).

Postings on I-95 this morning suggest that the 395 express  lanes are its own segment...395/236 still shown as the endpoint of a segment on VMSs where there is space to have destinations further north on them.

[1995hoo]

^^^^

I noted the same for the toll rate sign near the Frontier Drive exit on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway. Makes sense that "395-236"  would be the bottom line, of course, as that's a "decision point"  that marks the logical end of a "segment."

I didn't get to hear any news coverage this morning and I only heard one full traffic report on WTOP. They mentioned the new rules, and the fact that the left lane becomes the exit lane at the Pentagon. I thought the way they worded it could have been clearer. He said "there are now continuous express lanes north to the Pentagon."  Well, to many people there already were–the reversible roadway has been called "the express lanes"  since the 1970s and it's why Bob Marbourg was adamant about always saying "the E-ZPass lanes"  (the terminology caused him much angst back in 2012 when the Beltway HO/T lanes opened).

[1995hoo]

Photo from WTOP showing one of the rate signs for I-395 (it doesn't say which entrance this is):

[1995hoo]

https://twitter.com/wtoptraffic/status/1196417414067560450?s=21


https://twitter.com/hhowardwtop/status/1196420362503884807?s=21

[jeffandnicole]

$5.10 doesn't seem too bad.

Also...remember...free flowing lanes means there should be adaquete room between vehicles; an often cited example is 1 car length for every 10 mph.  People are so used to going 65 mph with about 1 car length between vehicles that it's forgotten how to actually drive defensively.

[1995hoo]

I expected $10 for that segment, so $5.10 isn't nearly as high as I'd have thought. That at least suggests the tolls are keeping the inner carriageway moving, but what we can't see from those tweets is how far back the backup in the mainline goes and how heavy it is. (That is, the mainline is always heavy, but it moves slowly until around Exit 8B. The question is whether it's heavier and slower.) Also be interesting to know how much more bad behavior like driving on the shoulders and using the onramp acceleration lanes as passing lanes has been going on.


Edited to add: BTW, for those who don't know, the last inbound toll gantry is at the location I've circled in yellow here. It's roughly above the old abandoned pedestrian tunnel.

[1995hoo]

https://twitter.com/adamtuss/status/1196489148187717633?s=21

[Jmiles32]

Has the related project to widen I-395 to 4 southbound lanes between Duke Street and Edsall road been completed yet? Should definitely help relieve that persistent bottleneck.

[sprjus4]

How worse has the backup over the I-395 bridge into DC gotten now that it's within Transurban's territory?

IMO, if Transurban wants to speed commuters over the bridge, how about they build a new reversible bridge dedicated for that purpose instead of taking over a pre-existing toll free bridge?

[1995hoo]

Has the related project to widen I-395 to 4 southbound lanes between Duke Street and Edsall road been completed yet? Should definitely help relieve that persistent bottleneck.

Work on that is still in progress.

[Jmiles32]

Has the related project to widen I-395 to 4 southbound lanes between Duke Street and Edsall road been completed yet? Should definitely help relieve that persistent bottleneck.

Work on that is still in progress.

According to VDOT's website, the final I-395 project completion is projected to be in summer of 2020 so I guess that's around when that particular aspect should be opened.

[sprjus4]

$8.25 right now to drive from DC to I-95. Funny, it would have been free and open to all traffic had it been last week. This is the stuff that only makes congestion worse in the GP lanes, decreases overall usage of the system, and puts less vehicles through total.

But what does Transurban care about? Solving congestion, or their revenue stream?

[Beltway]

$8.25 right now to drive from DC to I-95. Funny, it would have been free and open to all traffic had it been last week. This is the stuff that only makes congestion worse in the GP lanes, decreases overall usage of the system, and puts less vehicles through total.

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

IMO, if Transurban wants to speed commuters over the bridge, how about they build a new reversible bridge dedicated for that purpose instead of taking over a pre-existing toll free bridge?

D.C. and Virginia made that decision.  Not Transurban.

[1995hoo]

$8.25 right now to drive from DC to I-95. Funny, it would have been free and open to all traffic had it been last week. This is the stuff that only makes congestion worse in the GP lanes, decreases overall usage of the system, and puts less vehicles through total.

But what does Transurban care about? Solving congestion, or their revenue stream?

[1995hoo]

$8.25 right now to drive from DC to I-95. Funny, it would have been free and open to all traffic had it been last week. This is the stuff that only makes congestion worse in the GP lanes, decreases overall usage of the system, and puts less vehicles through total.

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

In fairness, the broken record posted at 18:07. At that time, HOV wouldn't have been in effect under the most recent HOV rules.