Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

[Beltway]

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

In fairness, the broken record posted at 18:07. At that time, HOV wouldn't have been in effect under the most recent HOV rules.

Open to all traffic southbound at 6:01 PM?

Sounds like a recipe for congestion in the express roadway.

[1995hoo]

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

In fairness, the broken record posted at 18:07. At that time, HOV wouldn't have been in effect under the most recent HOV rules.

Open to all traffic southbound at 6:01 PM?

Sounds like a recipe for congestion in the express roadway.

It did indeed open to all traffic at 18:00, and it got backed up within five minutes. A lot of assholes parked on the shoulder every night near Eads Street for up to 30 minutes waiting for 6:00 so they could race into the reversible lanes right as HOV ended. (To be clear, I didn't object to timing one's entry–I objected to parking on the shoulder to wait.)

[sprjus4]

$8.25 right now to drive from DC to I-95. Funny, it would have been free and open to all traffic had it been last week. This is the stuff that only makes congestion worse in the GP lanes, decreases overall usage of the system, and puts less vehicles through total.

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

Nope, the HOV restrictions only ran from 3:30 pm - 6:00 pm. Free to all traffic all other times. The toll remained in the $7 - $8 range until well after 7 pm.

I'd like to see Transurban / VDOT complete a report on the impacts to the general purpose lanes from converting the existing free, tax dollar funded, open to all traffic lanes outside of peak hours, weekends, and holidays to HO/T operation, along the I-95 and I-395 corridor.

The HRTPO completed such report on the lanes in Hampton Roads, and indeed concluded the extended hours (only extended from 2 hours to 4 hours - 8 hours total of HO/T operation per day - during peak hours, still remains free to all outside the extended hours, weekends, and holidays) only had a negative impact on the general purpose lanes, reduced average speeds, decreased the total amount of vehicles the system (both GP lanes and HO/T lanes combined) could carry, and increased congestion. Because of this, they are recommending that all future lanes in the Hampton Roads region be only tolled / HOV restricted during peak hours, and remain open to all traffic all other times, not a 24/7 operation like Transurban has for some reason. I'd highly imagine it's the same situation along I-95 and I-395, and it definitely choked up that bottleneck at the Occoquan River going southbound with VDOT's poorly designed lane drop, as traffic outside the designated hours could easily bypass it free of charge in the reversible lanes, and there was more throughput overall.

There's no good reason HO/T operations need to be 24/7, especially when it's on pre-existing tax dollar funded lanes that were previously only peak hour restricted. It might be a hard pill for some roadgeeks to swallow, but a lot of people would agree. If needed, the hours could be extended slightly, but there's no good reason a toll needs to be collected for a large amount of the day, on weekends, or holidays.

[AlexandriaVA]

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

In fairness, the broken record posted at 18:07. At that time, HOV wouldn't have been in effect under the most recent HOV rules.

Open to all traffic southbound at 6:01 PM?

Sounds like a recipe for congestion in the express roadway.

It did indeed open to all traffic at 18:00, and it got backed up within five minutes. A lot of assholes parked on the shoulder every night near Eads Street for up to 30 minutes waiting for 6:00 so they could race into the reversible lanes right as HOV ended. (To be clear, I didn't object to timing one's entry–I objected to parking on the shoulder to wait.)

All along the shoulders on Washington Blvd as well. Highly dangerous and clearly illegal.

I noticed it a ton as I would drive into Georgetown for night school (classes started 6:30 PM, so I'd be on my way in by 5:45 from Shirlington). Saw that stuff every damn day. I'm amazed nobody got rear-ended and died.

[Beltway]

There's no good reason HO/T operations need to be 24/7,

Because plenty of people are willing to pay, not knowing even in low volume times whether there may be something that causes congestion, that might not have happened yet upon the entry decision, and that the tolls help the overall bottom line to help support those who ride free (3+ riders), and provide subsidies for transit.

Broken record, this has been answered many times.

[Beltway]

Open to all traffic southbound at 6:01 PM?
Sounds like a recipe for congestion in the express roadway.

It did indeed open to all traffic at 18:00, and it got backed up within five minutes. A lot of assholes parked on the shoulder every night near Eads Street for up to 30 minutes waiting for 6:00 so they could race into the reversible lanes right as HOV ended. (To be clear, I didn't object to timing one's entry–I objected to parking on the shoulder to wait.)

That answers the question about the problem of opening to all traffic at 6:01 pm.

Congestion problems on side roads, and a mainline that has significantly lower capacity when backed up as opposed to free flowing.

[Alps]

There's no good reason HO/T operations need to be 24/7,

Because plenty of people are willing to pay, not knowing even in low volume times whether there may be something that causes congestion, that might not have happened yet upon the entry decision, and that the tolls help the overall bottom line to help support those who ride free (3+ riders), and provide subsidies for transit.

Broken record, this has been answered many times.

"Might be". But not "need to be."

[Beltway]

Because plenty of people are willing to pay, not knowing even in low volume times whether there may be something that causes congestion, that might not have happened yet upon the entry decision, and that the tolls help the overall bottom line to help support those who ride free (3+ riders), and provide subsidies for transit.

"Might be". But not "need to be."

Not a need, but enough of a market desire.

[sprjus4]

I get the concept, but didn't tax dollars pay for the construction of the lanes? That's what a lot of people's issues are with the whole 24/7 tolling on I-95 and I-395 that previously wasn't a thing. They didn't implement it in Hampton Roads, and there's been no negative impacts not having 24/7 tolls. VDOT didn't implement it on I-66. So far, Transurban has been only entity to implement 24/7 tolling on pre-existing lanes.

Another thing - you say it helps congestion in the "express"  lanes, and that's all fine and good, but that traffic has to go somewhere when you kick people out to get it free-flowing - right back into the general purpose lanes and only adds / worsens congestion. The point of HO/T lanes is to make the entire system flow faster - not strictly the HO/T lanes complete free-flow 65+ mph and barely moving GP lanes. It decreases capacity on the overall system, and contradicts the concept.

[Beltway]

I get the concept, but didn't tax dollars pay for the construction of the lanes? That's what a lot of people's issues are with the whole 24/7 tolling on I-95 and I-395 that previously wasn't a thing. They didn't implement it in Hampton Roads, and there's been no negative impacts not having 24/7 tolls. VDOT didn't implement it on I-66. So far, Transurban has been only entity to implement 24/7 tolling.

Click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ...

Private funds paid for widening as well as extensions of the HOT lanes, and in the billions.  H.R. did not do that, and volumes are much lower in any case.  The only tolls on I-66 are inside the Beltway where all lanes are managed in peak hours and all lanes are unmanaged at other times.  Nearly all tollroads toll 24/7.

Another thing - you say it helps congestion in the "express"  lanes, and that's all fine and good, but that traffic has to go somewhere when you kick people out to get it free-flowing

IOW it would no longer be managed lanes, but effectively GP.

[1995hoo]

I'm mildly amused that the person who spends the most time railing against the HO/T lanes doesn't even live in the DC area.

[Beltway]

I'm mildly amused that the person who spends the most time railing against the HO/T lanes doesn't even live in the DC area.

Neither do I, but I sure make use of them! 

Some folks don't like the fact that the world doesn't work they the way they think it should.

[1995hoo]

https://twitter.com/adamtuss/status/1196877172281159689?s=21

[Roadsguy]

Was 395's HO/T roadway widened to three lanes like 95's was, or is it still only two lanes? If the latter, where does the third lane drop?

[sprjus4]

Some folks don't like the fact that the world doesn't work they the way they think it should.

Aren't you the one who has spent hours upon hours for 2 years now continuously bashing the I-87 proposal in North Carolina and putting your same repetitive viewpoints anytime new postings come up in that thread? Continuously complaining that Maryland hasn't participated in a bypass study? Dispute studies that indicate higher cost estimates than you believe they should be, or dispute really any study that doesn't agree with your viewpoint? Disputed a western I-73 routing for quite a bit of time? That's just to name a few.

You're no perfect either. The world doesn't always work the way you want it to.

[sprjus4]

Was 395's HO/T roadway widened to three lanes like 95's was, or is it still only two lanes? If the latter, where does the third lane drop?

It was expanded to three lanes, but all they did was reduce the lane widths below standard to 11 ft and eliminated the shoulder on one side, the same process on I-95.

Nonetheless, it works to adequately provide 3 lanes.

[1995hoo]

Was 395's HO/T roadway widened to three lanes like 95's was, or is it still only two lanes? If the latter, where does the third lane drop?

There are three lanes up to the Pentagon. At that point, the third lane (left lane) becomes exit-only to the Pentagon on the left via what used to be the southbound entrance from Eads Street–it's now a reversible ramp. The other two lanes continue into DC as they always have, except the northbound exit ramp that used to be marked "Pentagon"  is also now a reversible ramp and is used as a southbound entry from Pentagon City when the reversible lanes are pointed southbound.

[sprjus4]

I'm mildly amused that the person who spends the most time railing against the HO/T lanes doesn't even live in the DC area.

Except I made frequent trips to/from there for two years, a lot of times during peak hours and on Fridays (not necessarily my choice, but it was either head out then or wait hours upon hours (at least until 7-8 pm for congestion to fully clear), and I decided sucking up the mess I-95 is would still be quicker than waiting) and experienced the issues first hand. Just because it's not primary place of residence, doesn't mean I wasn't there significantly in 2018 and 2019.

Click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ...

Isn't that what you've done with threads such as the proposed I-87 for two years now, along with other topics you don't agree with, anytime anything new is mentioned about it, or anytime some positive is mentioned about it?

This is what is known as a hypocrite.

"a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings" - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite

If you have an issue with my complaints, don't respond. Am I hurting something affiliated with you by mentioning the negative impacts / concepts that exist with the conversion, or VDOT's incompetence that causes you to quickly and always respond and heavily defend Transurban's privatized lanes or VDOT whenever there's a negative mentioned about them? You don't seem to have an issue bashing another DOT or project elsewhere, but when it involves VDOT, you for the most part heavily defend them it seems.

H.R. did not do that,

Except 9 miles is under construction, another 12 miles set to begin construction next year, and another 45 miles proposed. The majority of that is new construction, with the other converting existing non-separated HOV lanes into barrier-separated lanes. All of which the Express Lanes Committee has recommended peak hour tolling only, free to all traffic outside hours, remaining consistent with the current HOV system. Over $1 billion will be funded through toll revenue bonds, yet tolling is still proposed only during peak hours.

volumes are much lower in any case.

About 162,000 AADT at its peak on I-64, which is similar to I-95 south of Woodbridge, and close to the 180,000 AADT along the majority I-395 and I-495. I've driven the HO/T lanes here during rush hour (mainly because the rates are reasonable, such as $1.50 - $2 during peak hours for 7 miles), they are full and get good usage, but move at 65 - 70 mph without delay. They get decent usage outside of peak hours as well, but still move 65 - 70 mph without delay despite being free of charge. The general purpose lanes also get full during these times and even have break tapping and minor slowdowns, but the free outside of peak hour express lanes still continue moving full speed.

[sprjus4]

VDOT claims the upcoming project to construct an auxiliary lane between VA-123 and VA-294 will allievate the major southbound bottleneck at VDOT's poorly installed lane drop in ~2014.

I fail to see how though, yes it constructs a 4th southbound lane, but it's merely an auxiliary lane between the on-ramp and off-ramp. The 4th lane drop that causes the majority, if not all of the problems, will still be in place.

Now, if they extended the 4th GP lane to become Exit Only at VA-294, and that's what they're calling the "auxiliary lane", then that would indeed solve that issue as that's the point a decent amount of traffic exits, not VA-123, but more than likely they're not.

[Alps]

Some folks don't like the fact that the world doesn't work they the way they think it should.

Aren't you the one who has spent hours upon hours for 2 years now continuously bashing the I-87 proposal in North Carolina and putting your same repetitive viewpoints anytime new postings come up in that thread? Continuously complaining that Maryland hasn't participated in a bypass study? Dispute studies that indicate higher cost estimates than you believe they should be, or dispute really any study that doesn't agree with your viewpoint? Disputed a western I-73 routing for quite a bit of time? That's just to name a few.

You're no perfect either. The world doesn't always work the way you want it to.

The bannings will increase until morale improves

[AlexandriaVA]

Anecdotal sample size of two evening drives from Crystal City to Shirlington (~6:30 PM). And I couldn't notice any difference, nor do I think it will. I expect commuting habits, both time-of-day (i.e. getting onto the HOT lanes at 6:00 PM sharp doesn't do any good anymore, so might as well rethink your whole approach) and mode (e.g. Metrorail vs bus vs slugging vs solo vs VRE) will quickly adapt.

[Duke87]

Click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ...

You lost me. What's clicking exactly?

[Alps]

Click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ... click-click ...

You lost me. What's clicking exactly?

Not this thread.

[cpzilliacus]

Nonsense.  It would have been closed to vehicles with less than 3 people, and now some of them are removed from the GP lanes.

In fairness, the broken record posted at 18:07. At that time, HOV wouldn't have been in effect under the most recent HOV rules.

Open to all traffic southbound at 6:01 PM?

Sounds like a recipe for congestion in the express roadway.

It did indeed open to all traffic at 18:00, and it got backed up within five minutes. A lot of assholes parked on the shoulder every night near Eads Street for up to 30 minutes waiting for 6:00 so they could race into the reversible lanes right as HOV ended. (To be clear, I didn't object to timing one's entry–I objected to parking on the shoulder to wait.)

Though the Arlington County Police (and to a lesser extent the Virginia State Police) were aware of this practice and would show up a few minutes before the end of the HOV-3 restricted period and issue summonses to the offending drivers.

[cpzilliacus]

The HRTPO completed such report on the lanes in Hampton Roads, and indeed concluded the extended hours (only extended from 2 hours to 4 hours - 8 hours total of HO/T operation per day - during peak hours, still remains free to all outside the extended hours, weekends, and holidays) only had a negative impact on the general purpose lanes, reduced average speeds, decreased the total amount of vehicles the system (both GP lanes and HO/T lanes combined) could carry, and increased congestion. Because of this, they are recommending that all future lanes in the Hampton Roads region be only tolled / HOV restricted during peak hours, and remain open to all traffic all other times, not a 24/7 operation like Transurban has for some reason. I'd highly imagine it's the same situation along I-95 and I-395, and it definitely choked up that bottleneck at the Occoquan River going southbound with VDOT's poorly designed lane drop, as traffic outside the designated hours could easily bypass it free of charge in the reversible lanes, and there was more throughput overall.

Daily Press: I-64′s new Norfolk toll lanes boosted rush-hour speeds, even in the free lanes, state study finds