News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

I66/Somerset Northern Bypass, Somerset KY

Started by KentuckyParkways, June 18, 2020, 02:14:04 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

hbelkins

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 19, 2023, 05:47:36 PM
Are there any plans to complete the Somerset Northern Bypass from US 27 to the junction of KY 80 and KY 461 in the near future?

The design of the KY 80/KY 461 interchange that's currently under construction is done the way it is specifically for this possibility.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.


sprjus4

Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 06:11:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 05:31:35 PM


Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
So what do you propose? No bypass?

Freeways are not simply based off traffic volumes. And freeways aside, the need for a bypass isn't strictly "high traffic volumes" .
Makes me wonder what other needs would justify a bypass.
A routing that is designed to carry regional traffic (i.e. origin/destination outside the town). A bypass can be as little as a super-two with at-grade intersections. Something that routes through traffic around a population center.

Why would you need to route regional traffic around a population center?
Because it is through traffic?

Take a look at a route like US-58 across southern Virginia. Why does it bypass most of the towns / cities on the route? Should it just go through every single one?

It's an arterial highway routing with high capacity... 4 lanes with town bypasses. The principle is no different here. Unless you're trying to suggest this is a useless project and useless approach... then in that case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why not go through every single one?
So traffic not destined for that town / city doesn't have to slog through everyone? The highway should pass near the towns and have interchanges or at minimum turn off points, but allow through traffic to continue unimpeded.

Rothman



Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 06:11:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 05:31:35 PM


Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
So what do you propose? No bypass?

Freeways are not simply based off traffic volumes. And freeways aside, the need for a bypass isn't strictly "high traffic volumes" .
Makes me wonder what other needs would justify a bypass.
A routing that is designed to carry regional traffic (i.e. origin/destination outside the town). A bypass can be as little as a super-two with at-grade intersections. Something that routes through traffic around a population center.

Why would you need to route regional traffic around a population center?
Because it is through traffic?

Take a look at a route like US-58 across southern Virginia. Why does it bypass most of the towns / cities on the route? Should it just go through every single one?

It's an arterial highway routing with high capacity... 4 lanes with town bypasses. The principle is no different here. Unless you're trying to suggest this is a useless project and useless approach... then in that case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why not go through every single one?
So traffic not destined for that town / city doesn't have to slog through everyone?

Sounds like traffic volumes would be taken into account.

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

sprjus4

Not saying they don't... at all. I'm saying they don't need to be "high"  traffic counts.

I'm not going to keep going back and forth anymore... the point is made.

civilengineeringnerd

the biggest problem with the concept of I-66 to WV is the poverty rate and crime rate most counties between I-75 and the kentucky/WV border have. very dangerous and impoverished territory, on top of mountainous terrain.
as for the somerset northern bypass, i doubt a freeway is really needed from somerset to london, a 4 lane divided highway sure, but a freeway is basically overkill. hell i doubt a freeway is really needed from bowling green to london, based on 2 factors: local economic need and traffic counts. i should've been more clearer in my original post so im sorry for the confusion, but i don't see much economic need over there that warrants a freeway, let alone the AADT. just seems excessive to me.
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

skluth

Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 06:11:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 05:31:35 PM


Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
So what do you propose? No bypass?

Freeways are not simply based off traffic volumes. And freeways aside, the need for a bypass isn't strictly "high traffic volumes" .
Makes me wonder what other needs would justify a bypass.
A routing that is designed to carry regional traffic (i.e. origin/destination outside the town). A bypass can be as little as a super-two with at-grade intersections. Something that routes through traffic around a population center.

Why would you need to route regional traffic around a population center?
Because it is through traffic?

Take a look at a route like US-58 across southern Virginia. Why does it bypass most of the towns / cities on the route? Should it just go through every single one?

It's an arterial highway routing with high capacity... 4 lanes with town bypasses. The principle is no different here. Unless you're trying to suggest this is a useless project and useless approach... then in that case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why not go through every single one?

Because people don't like their homes and businesses being taken by eminent domain and torn down. It's also usually less costly to go around a town than through it.

Rothman

Quote from: skluth on March 21, 2023, 11:42:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 06:11:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 05:31:35 PM


Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2023, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
So what do you propose? No bypass?

Freeways are not simply based off traffic volumes. And freeways aside, the need for a bypass isn't strictly "high traffic volumes" .
Makes me wonder what other needs would justify a bypass.
A routing that is designed to carry regional traffic (i.e. origin/destination outside the town). A bypass can be as little as a super-two with at-grade intersections. Something that routes through traffic around a population center.

Why would you need to route regional traffic around a population center?
Because it is through traffic?

Take a look at a route like US-58 across southern Virginia. Why does it bypass most of the towns / cities on the route? Should it just go through every single one?

It's an arterial highway routing with high capacity... 4 lanes with town bypasses. The principle is no different here. Unless you're trying to suggest this is a useless project and useless approach... then in that case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why not go through every single one?

Because people don't like their homes and businesses being taken by eminent domain and torn down. It's also usually less costly to go around a town than through it.
Wait, why are we widening the road through town?

(Or, perhaps you should read the context of a conversation before jumping in...)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

civilengineeringnerd

i wonder if theres been a update on the somerset northern bypass? its been 10 months
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

The Ghostbuster

Since the Interstate 66 extension died in 2015, shouldn't the subject heading be changed? Since the Cumberland Parkway is planned to become Interstate 365, I changed it to that.

hbelkins

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on January 25, 2024, 04:21:24 AM
i wonder if theres been a update on the somerset northern bypass? its been 10 months

No mention of it in the recommended six-year highway plan.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

civilengineeringnerd

Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:22:42 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on January 25, 2024, 04:21:24 AM
i wonder if theres been a update on the somerset northern bypass? its been 10 months

No mention of it in the recommended six-year highway plan.
that kinda sucks, i was hoping they'd complete the section in somerset thats a gap
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

hbelkins

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on January 28, 2024, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:22:42 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on January 25, 2024, 04:21:24 AM
i wonder if theres been a update on the somerset northern bypass? its been 10 months

No mention of it in the recommended six-year highway plan.
that kinda sucks, i was hoping they'd complete the section in somerset thats a gap

They will. All you have to do is look at the reconfigured KY 80/KY 461 intersection to know that it's going to be done.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

edwaleni

#37
The earmark by Hal Rogers was only for $45 million. The groundbreaking for the east junction was started immediately.

I can't see exactly how much the Somerset Bypass actually cost, but seeing the amount of land cut required I am sure it will be above the benchmark.

Also, it seems the neighbors over in Harlan aren't so happy about all this spend going into Somerset.

As noted here:

https://www.harlanenterprise.net/2023/08/04/henson-another-somerset-project-reminds-us-harlan-county-still-being-left-behind/

There's nothing like a news report late in the evening on Congressman Hal Rogers celebrating another bypass construction in Pulaski County to make me start throwing things at my television and wondering why Harlan Countians continue to vote for him when it's been clear for decades he doesn't care we've been left behind for the past 60 years or so.  Rogers was in his native Somerset for the ribbon-cutting of the KY 461 and KY 80 interchange project as cars zoomed past on what seems like the 10th new road in the area. While Harlan County, once the largest county in all of eastern Kentucky, still doesn't have a four-lane road, Rogers was already talking about another project for Pulaski County.  A news release from Rogers stated the congressman "has requested $45 million in Community Project Funding to begin construction on the highly anticipated northern bypass in Pulaski County. Rogers made the announcement during the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the new KY 461 and KY 80 interchange project with the Kentucky Department of Transportation and local leaders."  "The interchange at KY 461 and KY 80 is a stamp of economic success and growth for southern and eastern Kentucky, but we're far from finished," he said. "We have another mountain before us to build the northern bypass in Pulaski County, and I was proud to request the federal funding on behalf of the Pulaski County Fiscal Court to begin the next phase of this greater vision, which will connect to the Cumberland Expressway."  "Southern Kentucky needs a four-lane highway that runs east to west, attracting new business and tourism dollars through the most beautiful parts of our state," said Rogers in the report. "We are making significant progress towards that goal as we continue strategic planning across the federal, state and local levels."  State legislators have also included a $1 million study in the six-year road plan to four-lane the Hal Rogers Parkway from London to Hazard. The study is slated to begin in 2024, according to the report.  In 2021, Congressman Rogers also secured an $8 million earmark to help four-lane KY 461 in Rockcastle County from Highway 150 to I-75. Construction on that project is scheduled to begin in 2024.  The list goes on and on, but no mention of Harlan County. It just drives me insane that our state legislators and county leaders aren't complaining every month or so and demanding that Harlan County get its turn —whether it be a four-lane U.S. 119 to Pineville or a new U.S. 421 between Harlan and Hazard. Harlan County waited 25 years for news that the final 3.1 miles of road to Virginia to be completed, then we celebrated when the news came out that funding for one mile of the road at the Virginia line was approved.  Some may argue that Pulaski County has more people and more traffic, but that wasn't the case until other areas of eastern Kentucky began receiving these road projects, while Harlan County was expected to be satisfied with a bypass from Baxter to Browning Acres. Rockcastle County, with 16,000 residents, benefits from the Highway 150 project and already has I-75 crossing through it. Harlan County, with over 25,000 residents and still the 44th largest county out of 120 in Kentucky, is left out yet again.


Rothman

#38
Makes me wonder if KYTC is looking at AADT.  Harlan to Hazard?  Talk about a gazillion dollar project connecting two places holding together like Sears and KMart.

Kentucky definitely seems to find money for big projects in rural places, though.  I'm still reeling from the KY 122 bypass of Mead Hill.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

edwaleni

Quote from: Rothman on January 29, 2024, 01:57:37 PM
Makes me wonder if KYTC is looking at AADT.  Harlan to Hazard?  Talk about a gazillion dollar project connecting two places holding together like Sears and KMart.

Kentucky definitely seems to find money for big projects in rural places, though.  I'm still reeling from the KY 122 bypass of Mead Hill.

Coal is dying a slow death in eastern KY and its threatening the retreat of the remaining railroads now.

I think Harlan County simply wants help getting connectivity to a major highway network and they will take care of the rest.  Somerset does not reside next to a major N/S arterial, which is I-75 over in London.

Now Hal is getting the money to connect Somerset to I-75 from the west.

Hal Rogers has been propping up SPEDA (Somerset's development agency) with massive grants and the bypass funding was requested because SPEDA landed 3 major tenants that will use it. (funny how that works)

Harlan County is in Hal Rogers district so they are looking for some love. Hal Rogers loves his home town of Somerset.

If I was in logistics planning, Somerset would not exactly be on my short list, it would have been London because I would have both E/W and N/S arterials.

Harlan County resides in between some challenging topography and unless there was some huge horse trade with Virginia, I can't see them (Virginia) moving much muscle to connect them to the east via US-421 and I-26.

So the voters in Harlan County need to apply some pressure on Mr. Pork Barrel.


edwaleni

Quote from: Rothman on January 29, 2024, 01:57:37 PM

Kentucky definitely seems to find money for big projects in rural places, though.  I'm still reeling from the KY 122 bypass of Mead Hill.

Is that the one in South Floyd Township over Little Beaver Creek by chance?

hbelkins

A new route for US 421 from the end of the current reconstruction to the Virginia line is moving along.

I'm pretty sure that Hal Rogers, first elected in 1980, inherited Harlan County from the old 7th District in 1992. Previously, Harlan had been represented for years by Carl D. Perkins (who has nearly as much stuff named him for him in the old 7th as Robert Byrd has in all of West Virginia). Plus, Somerset is growing and Harlan is shrinking. US 119 is an APDH route and could (should) have been built as four lanes the way West Virginia has built its corridors.

The upper Cumberland Valley is the red-headed stepchild (along with the upper Kentucky Valley) of eastern Kentucky, fighting for crumbs after the Big Sandy corridor (Pikeville/Prestonsburg/Paintsville) and the London/Somerset area get theirs. Harlan is especially challenged because the best road (US 119) runs southwest to northeast, making good north-south access a challenge. There have been tons of "look-sees" into building a new US 421 from Harlan to Hyden to link to the Daniel Boone Hall Rogers Parkway. Crossing Pine Mountain is a huge challenge. Even now, it looks like the Pine Mountain crossing on US 119 will never be done. At one time, a tunnel was proposed but I don't think it ever went anywhere. The improved US 119 doesn't even make it all the way to the foot of the mountain on the Cumberland side.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.