With money problems, NIMBYism, and so on, is Chicago done building new expressways after the EOE / Ohare West Access is done? Chicago has one of, if not the, most insufficient expressway systems in the country, despite some much needed highways (The Fox Valley Expressway, Crosstown, 53 northern extension, Illiana, etc.) having been planned or proposed.
I just don't see a future for highways in the Chicago area. Even the widening of I-80 from New Lenox to Minooka seems unlikely at this point.
Yes they are (Imo)
Outside of improvements along existing corridors, IMO yes...
Considering they are still investing in studies on 53 extension I would suspect that would be done in the next 10 years.
What about the Hypotenuse? :bigass:
Funding remains the largest issue, which isn't isolated to Illinois either. It all depends if president orange is willing to pony up the funds for more highways.
There's plenty of future highway needs in places like Kane county, i.e. EOE West, connecting 80 to 88, etc.
In more Urban cook county, it's kinda hard to expand due to lack of raw space and they'd rather spend the $$$ on public transportation than highway infrastructure due to the density of cook county.
I mean if you look at metra Milwaukee West, Union Pacific West or bnsf. They'd rather spend the money and expand those lines westward to say Hampshire, DeKalb, sandwich, etc than to spend the funds with highways.
Just look at the expansion of the blue line to O'Hare or the orange line for instance.
Yup, unless they wanna convert established corridors to expressways which could mean major re-construction of businesses along said routes (IL-50 for the crosstown comes to mind)
Yes.
I don't see the IL-53 extension happening at this point. It is just too controversial. And the Illiana and Prairie Parkway are dead for all intents and purposes.
At this point, Chicagoland will simply have to focus on improving local roads and expanding mass transit.
Quote from: I-39 on August 25, 2017, 07:18:55 PM
Yes.
I don't see the IL-53 extension happening at this point. It is just too controversial. And the Illiana and Prairie Parkway are dead for all intents and purposes.
At this point, Chicagoland will simply have to focus on improving local roads and expanding mass transit.
IL 53 North, the Tollway is still studying. It will take Political will to push it thru...
I think a renewed push for the Illiana may arrive, if InDOT and/or the towns of Northern IN are serious about having US 30 upgraded to a Freeway in Indiana. But unless/until that happens, the Illiana is dead
Randall Road should have been upgraded to an Expressway...but that ship has sailed. Probably even an Expressway upgrade of IL 47 has sailed at this point. Are you really going to build an Expressway between IL 47 and I-39? Sure, why not...But if you do, Southern IL needs the I-24 extension to Saint Louis, too! Because a North-South Expressway around DeKalb and Hinckley and Sandwich probably isn't that necessary
I will vote maybe. No one has mentioned in this thread any possible extension/upgrading of IL 394 (which is likely if the South Suburban Airport takes off), and neither the Illiana nor Prairie Parkway corridors have been completely filled in by development yet to rule out resurrections.
If ISTHA does not propose any new construction after the Elgin O'Hare and Central Tri-State work wraps up, then I will agree with Chicagoland being done with new expressways.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 25, 2017, 07:37:54 PM
Quote from: I-39 on August 25, 2017, 07:18:55 PM
Yes.
I don't see the IL-53 extension happening at this point. It is just too controversial. And the Illiana and Prairie Parkway are dead for all intents and purposes.
At this point, Chicagoland will simply have to focus on improving local roads and expanding mass transit.
IL 53 North, the Tollway is still studying. It will take Political will to push it thru...
I think a renewed push for the Illiana may arrive, if InDOT and/or the towns of Northern IN are serious about having US 30 upgraded to a Freeway in Indiana. But unless/until that happens, the Illiana is dead
Randall Road should have been upgraded to an Expressway...but that ship has sailed. Probably even an Expressway upgrade of IL 47 has sailed at this point. Are you really going to build an Expressway between IL 47 and I-39? Sure, why not...But if you do, Southern IL needs the I-24 extension to Saint Louis, too! Because a North-South Expressway around DeKalb and Hinckley and Sandwich probably isn't that necessary
palatine road upgrade?? there is room to do something.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on August 25, 2017, 10:06:16 PM
palatine road upgrade?? there is room to do something.
I'd love to see it...
Palatine Road tries so hard to be an Expressway, but just doesn't quite make it...
I think Palatine Road would be a good one to "Keystone" or "Meridian" to borrow from Carmel, Indiana...
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on August 25, 2017, 10:06:16 PM
palatine road upgrade?? there is room to do something.
Maybe if Palatine is turned over to ISTHA.
Theoretically, IL 64/North Avenue west of I-355 could be upgraded into a tight expressway with frontage roads, but it would be much more likely to see a fourth through lane added each way - which a lot of the shoulder appears designed to accommodate.
Rauner will be out of office after next year. I can see the Illiana coming forth again. :biggrin:
In the Chicago city limits, nothing new (like the Crosstown) will ever be done. Only reconstructions and rebuilds.
In the next urban band around Chicago, only super-arterial upgrades and the ISTHA work around O'Hare.
In the first suburban band, the I-53 North Extension will be done. IDOT owns 90% of the land now which is all ISTHA will need.
In the second suburban band will include the IL-120 (Waukegan to IL-53 Extension).
The Fox Valley Freeway was killed years ago and suburban infill makes it too difficult now to plan for.
A connector from I-80 near Morris to the Illiana is still a possibility as the land is still easy to acquire. Really depends on Indiana and the Peotone Airport.
Even if it isn't "needed" today, they should still be purchasing ROW to stay strategic.
In the third suburban band, Prairie Parkway is dead and the current land use policies in this territory don't support the traffic requirements.
As far Chicago as a whole, the State of Illinois through the RTA already invests a significant amount of dough to regional transit.
With the onset of self driving transit vehicles just around the corner, transit forms like Metra and the CTA will continue to function for large scale mobility.
For local transit, look for self driving pods to replace buses on local drops and buses will shift to super arterials where streetcar/light rail is impractical.
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
Plus we have I-57 and I-80 without names
Quote from: ET21 on December 27, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Plus we have I-57 and I-80 without names
I don't know about 57, but 80 has the name Kingery Expressway, according to Travel Midwest. I thought it had another name too, but I can't think of it.
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
Politics aside, he was a president that was born along the corridor, so it makes geographical sense to keep it reagan.
His name is on 55 outside the Stvenson because he drove 55 to Springfield as State Senator. Daley doesn't want to talk about his failed family legacy so he is talking nonsense.
Go to 2050 at CMAP has all the expressway and arterial plans that are still live Maybe someone can link it I am terrible on the phone with links. But that plan is very good to split conversations here as opposed the fictional. Most fun is the crosstown never dies speaking of sort of Daley though he actually was not a big fan and kept changing design and slow walked it.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 09:55:16 AM
Quote from: ET21 on December 27, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Plus we have I-57 and I-80 without names
I don't know about 57, but 80 has the name Kingery Expressway, according to Travel Midwest. I thought it had another name too, but I can't think of it.
80 thru NE IL and NW IN has three (and maybe 4) names...the Borman (in IN), the Kingery (in IL from the IN state line to the I-80/94/IL 394 interchange where it then becomes co-signed with the I-294 Tri-State tollway), and the Moline Expressway (west of the Tri-State), although the 3rd name is not seen much except on old maps. And the Tri-State if you want to count that short piece.
As far as the Obama Expressway re-naming, I think Bill Daley's plan is to remove Obama's name from the current I-55 section and re-apply it to the Dan Ryan in order to avoid double naming and confusion.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 09:55:16 AM
Quote from: ET21 on December 27, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Plus we have I-57 and I-80 without names
I don't know about 57, but 80 has the name Kingery Expressway, according to Travel Midwest. I thought it had another name too, but I can't think of it.
Moline Expressway, west of the Tri-State Tollway. The Robert Kingery Expressway is between the Tri-State and the Indiana State Line. Named for Robert Kingery, a former director of the Illinois Department of Public Works (IDOT forerunner), a regional director of the Chicago Regional Planning Association, and a proponent of the current tollway configuration.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 10:20:59 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
Politics aside, he was a president that was born along the corridor, so it makes geographical sense to keep it reagan.
Fair point.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
You'd hate Chicago road names then :-D :-D
Most cities are done with new expressways. You probably couldn't even build a road tunnel anymore. You will have to settle for improving existing expressways, and even that will cost you an arm and a leg.
Quote from: ET21 on December 27, 2018, 03:16:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
You'd hate Chicago road names then :-D :-D
It's often joked that the Ike is Chicago's only expressway named after a Republican. Edens, Kennedy, Ryan, and Stevenson were all Democrats. (I-88, the Reagan Twy exists outside the city limits.)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
So...never name roads after politicians, then?
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
So...never name roads after politicians, then?
Not necessarily, but wait some time before doing it. Also never change the name of a road named after a politician to a different one.
Moline expressway is used on Travel Midwest site.
Before we end the political discussion - I'll just say that Daley is just trying to make up for the mistakes his ancestors made. All typical Chicago politics.
Time to move on...
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
So...never name roads after politicians, then?
Not necessarily, but wait some time before doing it. Also never change the name of a road named after a politician to a different one.
Ok, the Reagan-Obama Tollway, then.
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 03:56:53 PM
It's often joked that the Ike is Chicago's only expressway named after a Republican. Edens, Kennedy, Ryan, and Stevenson were all Democrats. (I-88, the Reagan Twy exists outside the city limits.)
So why did Chicago choose Eisenhower for an expressway name? He was from Texas. Did he ever live in Illinois?
Part of their post-WWII naming of things after WWII things and people? Butch O'Hare a USN aviator and Medal of Honor winner. Midway airport for the Battle of Midway.
I always assumed (quite possibly incorrectly) that the Ike was named the Ike, to honor Ike for the System of Interstate Defense Highways
Illinois is one of the few states I have noticed traveling, to sign the Interstate shield with the blue "Eisenhower Interstate System" with the 5-Star logo sign below the shield, typically on one of the first Reassurance shields in the state (interstate) or on the route (intrastate)
I believe the Ike was originally the Congress Expressway, as the Westward Expressway (Freeway would be more appropriate now) continuation of Congress Parkway Downtown
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 27, 2018, 09:20:30 PM
I always assumed (quite possibly incorrectly) that the Ike was named the Ike, to honor Ike for the System of Interstate Defense Highways
I believe the Ike was originally the Congress Expressway, as the Westward Expressway (Freeway would be more appropriate now) continuation of Congress Parkway Downtown
"In 1940, the City Council of Chicago established the Westside Route, or Congress Expressway, as their first priority in a comprehensive superhighway system."
"Within the I-290 project study area, construction of individual sections was completed between 1954 and 1960"
http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/about/
When was the name changed to Eisenhower?
I don't know of any other Eisenhower Expressway or freeway... why here?
Granted, two others are named for a president or presidential candidate.
Quote from: Beltway on December 27, 2018, 09:09:08 PMSo why did Chicago choose Eisenhower for an expressway name? He was from Texas. Did he ever live in Illinois?
JFK was from Massschusetts and never lived in Illinois.
Post-WWII patriotic fervor would be my guess, though why there's no corresponding MacArthur Expressway is beyond me.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 07:09:32 AM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on December 27, 2018, 03:21:07 AM
Not sure if this would fall in topic or not, but it seems one of the younger Daley's who has political ambissions, is proposing re naming the Dan Ryan after Barrack Obama, guessing the South Side section. There is a ABC7 Chicago link, but my tablet will not let me post it.
It's a rather heated discussion. I'm against any sort of renaming as Dan Ryan, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Ryan_Jr.) (along with William Edens - the sponsor of the first state bond issue in 1918) was one of the driving forces behind the current Chicago expressway system and other Illinois highways.
But if they want to rename the Reagan after Obama, that'd be fine with me.
I'd prefer that political bias stay out of roads.
So...never name roads after politicians, then?
I'm good with that. Things should only be named for heroes.
Problem with that - some people consider politicians heroes. those people likely have the power to rename the roads.
One person's hero is another person's villain.
Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
One person's hero is another person's villain.
Exactly.
Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
One person's hero is another person's villain.
For current politicians, yes. However, go back more than 50 years, and people seem to agree. Both Roosevelts and Martin Luther King Jr. were heroes, while certain members of the Confederacy were villains.
Quote from: 1 on December 28, 2018, 09:19:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
One person's hero is another person's villain.
For current politicians, yes. However, go back more than 50 years, and people seem to agree. Both Roosevelts and Martin Luther King Jr. were heroes, while certain members of the Confederacy were villains.
Go to the south. The confederacy becomes heros in some places.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 09:03:18 AM
Quote from: Beltway on December 27, 2018, 09:09:08 PMSo why did Chicago choose Eisenhower for an expressway name? He was from Texas. Did he ever live in Illinois?
JFK was from Massschusetts and never lived in Illinois.
Post-WWII patriotic fervor would be my guess, though why there’s no corresponding MacArthur Expressway is beyond me.
There were over 400 places and things all over the country named after Kennedy. It was all the rage in the 1960s.
I can't think of anything more depressing than getting a strip of highway named after me.
Quote from: 1 on December 28, 2018, 09:19:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 28, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
One person's hero is another person's villain.
For current politicians, yes. However, go back more than 50 years, and people seem to agree. Both Roosevelts and Martin Luther King Jr. were heroes, while certain members of the Confederacy were villains.
One need not even look beyond the four walls of this forum to find people who don't think the Roosevelts or MLK were heroes, or that think certain members of the Confederacy were heroes.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
I can't think of anything more depressing than getting a strip of highway named after me.
Getting a sewage treatment plant named after me. Or maybe a jail.
SR 53 may be built, and SR 390 (I think will be I-390 or 490 in the future) is being built.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 28, 2018, 12:04:09 PM
SR 53 may be built, and SR 390 (I think will be I-390 or 490 in the future) is being built.
Maybe I-390 one day, but I-490 is a different road entirely.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
I can't think of anything more depressing than getting a strip of highway named after me.
Getting a sewage treatment plant named after me. Or maybe a jail.
With our politicians, he/she could be spending a lot of time at the jail named for him/her.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
I can't think of anything more depressing than getting a strip of highway named after me.
Getting a sewage treatment plant named after me.
Abe Froman's so full of shit it only makes sense. :)
*is promptly escorted out*
^ Maybe there's a reason he was the "sausage king of Chicago"...?
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 27, 2018, 09:20:30 PM
I always assumed (quite possibly incorrectly) that the Ike was named the Ike, to honor Ike for the System of Interstate Defense Highways
Illinois is one of the few states I have noticed traveling, to sign the Interstate shield with the blue "Eisenhower Interstate System" with the 5-Star logo sign below the shield, typically on one of the first Reassurance shields in the state (interstate) or on the route (intrastate)
I believe the Ike was originally the Congress Expressway, as the Westward Expressway (Freeway would be more appropriate now) continuation of Congress Parkway Downtown
It was originally the Congress Expressway. It was renamed in 1964.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
US 34 is signed the "Walter Payton Memorial Highway" from Chicago to Burlington, Iowa. Definitely not a politician.
When I was a kid, US-40 was called the "Cumberland Road". After I-70 was built, I don't think anyone calls it that now.
Quote from: Beltway on December 27, 2018, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2018, 03:56:53 PM
It's often joked that the Ike is Chicago's only expressway named after a Republican. Edens, Kennedy, Ryan, and Stevenson were all Democrats. (I-88, the Reagan Twy exists outside the city limits.)
So why did Chicago choose Eisenhower for an expressway name? He was from Texas. Did he ever live in Illinois?
Ike was born in Denison, Texas but grew up in Kansas and spent his adult life moving from military base to military base until WWII. He may have been based in Illinois at one point, but no matter, he was a national hero anyway.
Quote from: edwaleni on December 30, 2018, 05:42:04 PM
US 34 is signed the "Walter Payton Memorial Highway" from Chicago to Burlington, Iowa. Definitely not a politician.
When I was a kid, US-40 was called the "Cumberland Road". After I-70 was built, I don't think anyone calls it that now.
US-34 isn't an expressway though and is better known as Ogden Avenue in the Chicago area.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
It's right at MM 202 on the NB side. I passed it a few months ago.
Quote from: Beltway on December 27, 2018, 09:09:08 PM
So why did Chicago choose Eisenhower for an expressway name? He was from Texas. Did he ever live in Illinois?
The Interstate highway system was invented via an act that Eisenhower signed. Many people credit him for starting the Interstates, and the full name of the Interstate highway system is named in his honor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System
^ Crediting Ike with "inventing" the Interstate system is factually incorrect, as it ignores the work that was done on the system (at the direction of Congress) in the 1940s. FDR actually had the original genesis of the idea (BPR creating the Toll Roads and Free Roads report in 1939), while the initial approval of the system (base routings and mileage) was during the Truman years (1947 specifically).
Where proper credit should be given to Ike was in pushing for the financing of the Interstate system. That's really what the 1956 act he championed was...the funding for it.
The Toll Roads and Free Roads report was a very limited system with 3 north-south and 3 east-west routes, and they didn't even firm up a modern definition of freeway as it applied to the Interstate system as it was approved in 1956, namely divided highways with 4 or more lanes and with limited access right-of-way and full grade separation of all crossroads and with interchanges.
No president can take credit for "inventing" or the "original genesis of the idea" for the Interstate highway system. It was primarily the bailiwick of the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads and the U.S. Congress.
Thomas H. MacDonald, who headed the FHWA's predecessor agencies from 1919 to 1953, and his top assistant, Herbert Fairbank, were recognized as highway authorities internationally. During the 1920s and 1930s, they helped the State highway agencies to create the Nation's first "interstate system" in the form of paved two-lane U.S. numbered highways. Fairbank wrote the 1939 report to Congress, Toll Roads and Free Roads in which he and MacDonald conceived what is now called the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/mcdonaldtoll.cfm
Ike inventing the Interstate Highway System is like saying Al Gore invented the internet.
As a previous poster noted, Ike spearheaded the funding model through Congress. He saw how the autobahn's in Germany were effective not just for public transport but also for movement of defense. He said so in his memoirs.
Ike was part of a Army mobilization exercise prior to WW2 where they tried to move assets west without using trains or ships. It failed miserably. He had first hand experience in how poor roads could impact defense capacity.
Al Gore was on a science sub-committee in Congress that reviewed DARPA's request to fund the foundations of which became the internet. He voted to provide DARPA the funds.
Interesting also is the fact that Ike also saw the destruction of Garfield Park in Chicago to build the Congress Extension. He wanted to know what was going on and they told him. He wasn't happy. Irony is rich that they named the road after him. He saw the Interstates as a regional transportation option, not a interurban method. Urban mayors with labor unions pushing from behind wanted to see the money spent on urban highways as it meant fat contracts and jobs. Mayors saw the jobs as extending influence and votes.
Both Ike and the mayors got way more than they anticipated.
The highway bill killed many bus and interurban train/trolley lines in the cities. Neighborhoods were destroyed to clear the land for the new roads. The new ease of entering and exiting the urban centers facilitated urban flight to the suburbs and those same mayors lost the very influence they sought when grabbing the money as the population shifted.
Chicago is prime example #1 of what happens to urban centers when mega-millions is poured into a single transportation method.
Quote from: edwaleni on January 05, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
The highway bill killed many bus and interurban train/trolley lines in the cities. Neighborhoods were destroyed to clear the land for the new roads. The new ease of entering and exiting the urban centers facilitated urban flight to the suburbs and those same mayors lost the very influence they sought when grabbing the money as the population shifted.
Chicago is prime example #1 of what happens to urban centers when mega-millions is poured into a single transportation method.
Interesting, however, that Chicago still has a vibrant downtown, one remaining interurban railway, and a busy bus terminal. I think that's due to it's enormous size.
Quote from: kphoger on January 07, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 05, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
The highway bill killed many bus and interurban train/trolley lines in the cities. Neighborhoods were destroyed to clear the land for the new roads. The new ease of entering and exiting the urban centers facilitated urban flight to the suburbs and those same mayors lost the very influence they sought when grabbing the money as the population shifted.
Chicago is prime example #1 of what happens to urban centers when mega-millions is poured into a single transportation method.
Interesting, however, that Chicago still has a vibrant downtown, one remaining interurban railway, and a busy bus terminal. I think that's due to it's enormous size.
One remaining interurban railway?
Howso? Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, Canadian National (maybe others?) all have significant interurban routes radiating from Chicago
The Amtrak Passenger service is all served out of a single station - Union Station Downtown, which sees significant use as a Chicagoland commuter rail station also. But in the Midwest, Amtrak does not own the tracks/routes, as they run on the Private Railroad Routes
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 10:34:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 07, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 05, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
The highway bill killed many bus and interurban train/trolley lines in the cities. Neighborhoods were destroyed to clear the land for the new roads. The new ease of entering and exiting the urban centers facilitated urban flight to the suburbs and those same mayors lost the very influence they sought when grabbing the money as the population shifted.
Chicago is prime example #1 of what happens to urban centers when mega-millions is poured into a single transportation method.
Interesting, however, that Chicago still has a vibrant downtown, one remaining interurban railway, and a busy bus terminal. I think that's due to it's enormous size.
One remaining interurban railway?
Howso? Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, Canadian National (maybe others?) all have significant interurban routes radiating from Chicago
The Amtrak Passenger service is all served out of a single station - Union Station Downtown, which sees significant use as a Chicagoland commuter rail station also. But in the Midwest, Amtrak does not own the tracks/routes, as they run on the Private Railroad Routes
"Interurban" refers to something fairly specific, not just any train service between cities. The South Shore Line (NICTD) between Chicago and South Bend is one of the few remaining interurban rail services left in America. The Metra lines you mention should all be referred to as "suburban rail" or "commuter rail," and Amtrak as simply "passenger rail."
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Quote from: kphoger on January 07, 2019, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 10:34:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 07, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 05, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
The highway bill killed many bus and interurban train/trolley lines in the cities. Neighborhoods were destroyed to clear the land for the new roads. The new ease of entering and exiting the urban centers facilitated urban flight to the suburbs and those same mayors lost the very influence they sought when grabbing the money as the population shifted.
Chicago is prime example #1 of what happens to urban centers when mega-millions is poured into a single transportation method.
Interesting, however, that Chicago still has a vibrant downtown, one remaining interurban railway, and a busy bus terminal. I think that's due to it's enormous size.
One remaining interurban railway?
Howso? Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, Canadian National (maybe others?) all have significant interurban routes radiating from Chicago
The Amtrak Passenger service is all served out of a single station - Union Station Downtown, which sees significant use as a Chicagoland commuter rail station also. But in the Midwest, Amtrak does not own the tracks/routes, as they run on the Private Railroad Routes
"Interurban" refers to something fairly specific, not just any train service between cities. The South Shore Line (NICTD) between Chicago and South Bend is one of the few remaining interurban rail services left in America. The Metra lines you mention should all be referred to as "suburban rail" or "commuter rail," and Amtrak as simply "passenger rail."
I've been trying to locate the old interurban rail line that went from Joliet, IL to Princeton, IL (through Minooka, Morris, Ottawa, Lasalle - Peru,) and it's been pretty interesting tracing the routes.
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
It is, it just happens to be a commuter line with some street running through Michigan City.
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Shouldn't the Amtrak between Milwaukee and Chicago be considered "interurban?"
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 08, 2019, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Shouldn't the Amtrak between Milwaukee and Chicago be considered "interurban?"
"Interurban" is a pretty specific term in this case that refers to train lines that ran on grade-separated track as well as street-running segments, with stops on the street-running segments, and, in the Chicago area, occasionally on CTA trackage. The old North Shore Line is another example of an interurban, as well as the Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 08, 2019, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Shouldn't the Amtrak between Milwaukee and Chicago be considered "interurban?"
"Interurban" is a pretty specific term in this case that refers to train lines that ran on grade-separated track as well as street-running segments, with stops on the street-running segments, and, in the Chicago area, occasionally on CTA trackage. The old North Shore Line is another example of an interurban, as well as the Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin.
So it's a distinction without a difference then.
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Metra is a network with Chicago as its hub. South Shore is a line between two cities.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 08, 2019, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 08, 2019, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 07, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
I always thought of the South Shore Line as another Commuter line, similar to the Metra routes
I guess South Bend is slightly east of the Greater Chicagoland Area - but not by much
Shouldn't the Amtrak between Milwaukee and Chicago be considered "interurban?"
"Interurban" is a pretty specific term in this case that refers to train lines that ran on grade-separated track as well as street-running segments, with stops on the street-running segments, and, in the Chicago area, occasionally on CTA trackage. The old North Shore Line is another example of an interurban, as well as the Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin.
So it's a distinction without a difference then.
Metra and Amtrak are heavy rail, using diesel engines. An interurban is an electrified railway, and the passenger trains that run on it are light rail, similar to streetcars coupled together.
The only
network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan
are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Cmon...whether or not it runs to a different city or a outlying suburb really isn't that much of a difference when the entire point is the health of the city itself.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
Maybe "bedroom communities," but I think of those as smaller towns.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
Maybe "bedroom communities," but I think of those as smaller towns.
A bedroom community is a community that primarily has residents with little to no job base who commute to the larger city for work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_town
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_town
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
How is that different than other suburbs? I've said it before, but Frank Lloyd Wright moved to Oak Park to
get out of the city. I grew up with an old lady whose family used to own farmland near Midway. Austin used to be a separate town. Go far enough back in history, and each little burb has its own story to tell. But how they function today is another matter. They're suburbs. Maybe they didn't use to be, but they certainly are now.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
How is that different than other suburbs? I've said it before, but Frank Lloyd Wright moved to Oak Park to get out of the city. I grew up with an old lady whose family used to own farmland near Midway. Austin used to be a separate town. Go far enough back in history, and each little burb has its own story to tell. But how they function today is another matter. They're suburbs. Maybe they didn't use to be, but they certainly are now.
It's a difference in size and base. The satellite cities could exist on their own without Chicago, but a true suburb (edge city) such as Schaumburg or Naperville could not. Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet are centers of their respective areas within the larger Chicagoland area, and can exist on their own without Chicago. Naperville, Bolingbrook, Schaumburg are products of proximity to Chicago and exist in their current form because of Chicago. A good comparison is to look at the respective downtowns of each (or lack thereof in the case of Bolingbrook) of the suburb/edge city to the satellite city (Aurora's downtown is much larger in size than Naperville's). The satellites also have their own suburbs (Waukegan: Gurnee, Park City, North Chicago; Elgin: the Dundees, South Elgin; Aurora: North Aurora, Sugar Grove, Montgomery; Joliet: Crest Hill, Shorewood, Rockdale), something the suburb/edge city like Naperville or Schaumburg lacks.
meh.
I'm gonna have to go with the authority here.
Quote from: Wayne's World
Hi. My name is Wayne Cambell. I live in Aurora, Illinois, which is a suburb of Chicago–excellent!
Seriously, though, Naper's Settlement had a population of more than a hundred by 1832–one year
before the Treaty of Chicago and also before white men settled in Aurora. But that's just history. I'd say
all of these towns exist as they do precisely because of their proximity to Chicago.
None of this matters, though, to the discussion of an interurban. Metra does not run interurbans. Calling something that's not an interurban an interurban doesn't make it so.
Wayne Campbell was played by a Canadian in a girdle, what does he know.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 04:26:32 PM
None of this matters, though, to the discussion of an interurban. Metra does not run interurbans. Calling something that's not an interurban an interurban doesn't make it so.
The South Shore was often referred to as "America's last interurban" due to its being the last survivor of the three Insull electric lines and its rural, single-track mileage east of Miller station. Functionally, with its mileage of about 90 miles from Millennium Station to the South Bend Airport, it is not that different than Metra's UP Northwest line, with Harvard being more than 60 miles away from Ogilvie transportation center, dieselized freight trains also occupying both lines and both using heavyweight rail. The street running of South Shore (also cited for its "interurban" flavor) will also probably be finished within the early 2020's, with the tracks being moved out of 10th/11th Streets under the Miller-Michigan City double track program that is in planning now.
Quote from: Rick Powell on January 09, 2019, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 04:26:32 PM
None of this matters, though, to the discussion of an interurban. Metra does not run interurbans. Calling something that's not an interurban an interurban doesn't make it so.
The South Shore was often referred to as "America's last interurban" due to its being the last survivor of the three Insull electric lines....... with the tracks being moved out of 10th/11th Streets under the Miller-Michigan City double track program that is in planning now.
Being an Insull interurban fan I will have to see how that relocation will work. I had read there was some planning around it, but haven't seen the final plans.
Not to get off "the rails"......the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin offices that sat below the Wells Street Station is still there at 321 S. Franklin. CTA uses it to store and repair the trucks for the L cars.
Having driven all of the Chicago expressways in my life over and over, (and also rode Metra), they don't need new ones, they only need to improve the existing ones. Kennedy needs some safety improvements around line of sight. As for the Ryan, most of those were fixed in the last reconstruction. Ike needs work between Mannheim and Central. Much of the sign work on the Bishop Ford needs to be updated/replaced due to salt abuse. But I don't think they need net new capacity inside the city limits.
The city is shrinking in population and has been for 30 years. It's the commuters that drive peak road usage from the suburbs. Faster, more frequent service types are what is needed.
The term "interurban" defies common sense. Common sense says that it goes from one metro area to another. This is required, but the thing that defies common sense is that it's not a sufficient condition, and even knowing where the rail line goes, including the frequency and location of stations, isn't enough to determine whether it counts as "interurban".
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2019, 03:40:06 PM
The term "interurban" defies common sense. Common sense says that it goes from one metro area to another. This is required, but the thing that defies common sense is that it's not a sufficient condition, and even knowing where the rail line goes, including the frequency and location of stations, isn't enough to determine whether it counts as "interurban".
It doesn't defy common sense any more than "high speed rail" not being a type of "rapid transit" . . .
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
There is also a brown sign on I-55 SB right at the exit ramp bridge for I-294 NB with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway'.
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2019, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PMThe only network difference I see between the South Shore Line and Metra Electric is that the South Shore Line runs between two cities rather than just within one city's suburbs. Even then, though, if Metra Electric ran down to say, Kankakee, I'm still not sure the equipment it uses could be included as an interurban, because its cars are still heavy rail.
Metra has lines that run to Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan, all of which are cities that don't exist merely as suburbs of Chicago.
Also, the other difference between the South Shore and the entire Metra system is that the South Shore has street-running segments.
Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan are suburbs of Chicago, and they were even when I was a little tyke growing up in New Lenox in the 1980s. A hundred years ago, and maybe you'd have something.
Brandon would probably disagree with you on at least one of those.
They are and they aren't suburbs (venturing into Alanlandish territory here). Each has its own history and base separate from Chicago, yet each is attached to Chicago, and has been from the start. The best term I've ever seen is "satellite cities" for Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet, kind of like a series of moons around a planet.
How is that different than other suburbs? I've said it before, but Frank Lloyd Wright moved to Oak Park to get out of the city. I grew up with an old lady whose family used to own farmland near Midway. Austin used to be a separate town. Go far enough back in history, and each little burb has its own story to tell. But how they function today is another matter. They're suburbs. Maybe they didn't use to be, but they certainly are now.
It's a difference in size and base.
Because you know it's all about that base, 'bout that base, no treble. Right, Meghan?
ixnay
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 10, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
There is also a brown sign on I-55 SB right at the exit ramp bridge for I-294 NB with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway'.
I saw that one two weeks ago when I was on I-55 SB. I think it starts where it stops being called the Stevenson, isn't that the county line or I-294 or somewhere in that area?
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 17, 2019, 10:09:10 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 10, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
There is also a brown sign on I-55 SB right at the exit ramp bridge for I-294 NB with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway'.
I saw that one two weeks ago when I was on I-55 SB. I think it starts where it stops being called the Stevenson, isn't that the county line or I-294 or somewhere in that area?
Yup, the following exit west of I-294 is County Line Road. The Stevenson name leg ends at 294, though you could argue it continues until County Line Road
Quote from: ET21 on March 18, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 17, 2019, 10:09:10 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 10, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
There is also a brown sign on I-55 SB right at the exit ramp bridge for I-294 NB with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway'.
I saw that one two weeks ago when I was on I-55 SB. I think it starts where it stops being called the Stevenson, isn't that the county line or I-294 or somewhere in that area?
Yup, the following exit west of I-294 is County Line Road. The Stevenson name leg ends at 294, though you could argue it continues until County Line Road
And the funny thing is that when the 355/55 interchange was redesigned to accommodate the extension of 355, the signs on 355 Southbound did say it was the Stevenson Expy that far southwest.
IMO, it should be the Stevenson to either 355, 126 or 80. I am leaning more toward the 126 interchange since that is truly where 55 becomes a North-South freeway.
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 06, 2019, 05:19:45 AM
Quote from: ET21 on March 18, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 17, 2019, 10:09:10 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 10, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 29, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 27, 2018, 08:49:15 AM
Besides, wasn't a portion of I-55 through Dwight (of all places) renamed for Obama?
There is a brown sign on NB I-55 north of Bloomington-Normal and well south of I-80 (I think it was south of Dwight) with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway' or something similar.
There is also a brown sign on I-55 SB right at the exit ramp bridge for I-294 NB with 'Barrack Obama Presidential Expressway'.
I saw that one two weeks ago when I was on I-55 SB. I think it starts where it stops being called the Stevenson, isn't that the county line or I-294 or somewhere in that area?
Yup, the following exit west of I-294 is County Line Road. The Stevenson name leg ends at 294, though you could argue it continues until County Line Road
And the funny thing is that when the 355/55 interchange was redesigned to accommodate the extension of 355, the signs on 355 Southbound did say it was the Stevenson Expy that far southwest.
IMO, it should be the Stevenson to either 355, 126 or 80. I am leaning more toward the 126 interchange since that is truly where 55 becomes a North-South freeway.
IMHO, should be the Stevenson all the way down to 80, as 126 sounds arbitrary for one, and 2, all traffic reports from Chicago that reference any problem in Joliet still call it the stevenson sometimes.
Well the Stevenson is associated with I-55 so if you say the Stevenson you automatically think I-55 anyway. No one is confusing the difference between the Dan Ryan and the Kennedy.