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The Pan American Highway

Started by DrZoidberg, April 12, 2009, 02:59:24 PM

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JayhawkCO

Apropos if nothing, I have been on segments of the Pan American in every country it exists other than Mexico, Guatemala, Panama, and Argentina, the latter of which I haven't traveled to yet at all.


kphoger

Quote from: Rothman on April 09, 2023, 08:55:28 AM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 09, 2023, 12:34:02 AM
What are the chances the Darian Gap is ever closed?

Closed?  Isn't it always, essentially?

Closing a gap means there is no longer a gap...
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Rothman

Quote from: kphoger on April 11, 2023, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 09, 2023, 08:55:28 AM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 09, 2023, 12:34:02 AM
What are the chances the Darian Gap is ever closed?

Closed?  Isn't it always, essentially?

Closing a gap means there is no longer a gap...
Tell that to Cumberland Gap.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

MikieTimT

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 09, 2023, 12:34:02 AM
What are the chances the Darian Gap is ever closed?

0.

Panama is a breakaway province of Columbia specifically because Columbia couldn't enforce the border due to the hazardous nature of the Gap.  Building a road, which would almost have to be elevated its entire length due to the swampy nature of the Gap and the monsoon of rainfall that falls there as well as cost hundreds if not thousands of worker lives to construct like the Panama Canal did, would only make it easier for Columbia to reclaim their historical claim on Panama.  Not to mention that the U.S. doesn't exactly crave an easy high-volume avenue to funnel cocaine into Central America for its final destination here.  Easier to police for a few boats, handbuilt submarines, and human mules than 1000's of cross border trucks.

Molandfreak

Since they couldn't even make a regular ferry service economically viable, I wouldn't bet on the Darién Gap ever being closed.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

zzcarp

Quote from: MikieTimT on April 11, 2023, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 09, 2023, 12:34:02 AM
What are the chances the Darian Gap is ever closed?

0.

Panama is a breakaway province of Columbia specifically because Columbia couldn't enforce the border due to the hazardous nature of the Gap.  Building a road, which would almost have to be elevated its entire length due to the swampy nature of the Gap and the monsoon of rainfall that falls there as well as cost hundreds if not thousands of worker lives to construct like the Panama Canal did, would only make it easier for Columbia to reclaim their historical claim on Panama.  Not to mention that the U.S. doesn't exactly crave an easy high-volume avenue to funnel cocaine into Central America for its final destination here.  Easier to police for a few boats, handbuilt submarines, and human mules than 1000's of cross border trucks.

Yes, exactly. We could solve the engineering problems, but the US would put the kibosh on closing that gap due to the "war on drugs". It's unfortunate because having a safe overland route could increase trade between South and North Americas and provide additional markets for goods. However, with the cartels things aren't safe and it would take a lot of will, a lot of money, and probably military or extreme government force to civilize the gap enough for commercial traffic.
So many miles and so many roads

kphoger

As far as I know, most of the opposition has been environmental in nature, not because of cartel violence or trade.  The gap has prevented livestock disease from spreading between continents and preserved the biodiversity of the rainforest.  The southernmost portion of the highway in Panamá has indeed attracted deforestation, and it therefore serves as proof that filling the gap would result in environmental damage.  The indigenous people groups who live in the area have been opposed to the idea for similar reasons, because they consider themselves to be at particular risk.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

#82
And people who say there's zero percent chance of it happening aren't realizing that a lot can and has changed with regards to the cartels and FARC. Visiting Medellin or Cali would have been insane in the 90's. Now those are two of the most popular places to visit in all of South America. What can happen in another 30 years?

Plutonic Panda

Regardless of the environment impacts and inherit risks I believe it should still be completed with as much mitigation as possible.

Rothman

I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
I wonder if we would contribute to its cost?

Rothman

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 12, 2023, 06:36:04 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
I wonder if we would contribute to its cost?
Given the amount of foreign aid we distribute down there, probably.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Thing 342

#87
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

Rothman



Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

You've ignored the other reasons mentioned in the article.  Improving the means of getting through the gap would also help the humanitarian situation mentioned.

It's the typical problem of U.S. foreign policy talking out of both sides of its mouth.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Thing 342

Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 09:08:25 AM


Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

You've ignored the other reasons mentioned in the article.  Improving the means of getting through the gap would also help the humanitarian situation mentioned.

It's the typical problem of U.S. foreign policy talking out of both sides of its mouth.

To put it bluntly, I suspect the humanitarian angle is mostly lip service and is of low priority to decision-makers, as they desire to limit the flow of low-skill refugees into their borders and that create strain on their social services.

Rothman

Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 09:08:25 AM


Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

You've ignored the other reasons mentioned in the article.  Improving the means of getting through the gap would also help the humanitarian situation mentioned.

It's the typical problem of U.S. foreign policy talking out of both sides of its mouth.

To put it bluntly, I suspect the humanitarian angle is mostly lip service and is of low priority to decision-makers, as they desire to limit the flow of low-skill refugees into their borders and that create strain on their social services.
This sounds like a partisan opinion rather than an objective observation.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 09:08:25 AM


Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

You've ignored the other reasons mentioned in the article.  Improving the means of getting through the gap would also help the humanitarian situation mentioned.

It's the typical problem of U.S. foreign policy talking out of both sides of its mouth.

To put it bluntly, I suspect the humanitarian angle is mostly lip service and is of low priority to decision-makers, as they desire to limit the flow of low-skill refugees into their borders and that create strain on their social services.
This sounds like a partisan opinion rather than an objective observation.

I feel like your observation is also partisan since you discuss government function in a forum that specifically does not allow politics

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 09:08:25 AM


Quote from: Thing 342 on April 15, 2023, 12:55:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I don't think the U.S. would formally oppose the project, if it ever came to fruition.
Colombia, Panama, and the US have recently announced a plan to try and stem the flow of migrants through the Darien Gap, projected to number as many as 400,000 this year: https://apnews.com/article/darien-gap-panama-colombia-us-migrants-cf0cd1e9de2119208c9af186e53e09b7

I think the mutual desire to stem extra-continental migration and influence of armed groups would strongly preclude the construction of any marked route through the area.

You've ignored the other reasons mentioned in the article.  Improving the means of getting through the gap would also help the humanitarian situation mentioned.

It's the typical problem of U.S. foreign policy talking out of both sides of its mouth.

To put it bluntly, I suspect the humanitarian angle is mostly lip service and is of low priority to decision-makers, as they desire to limit the flow of low-skill refugees into their borders and that create strain on their social services.
You're the one ignoring humanitarian aspects of this and yet you accuse the other guy of doing so? Lol

Molandfreak

Construction of an extension on the Panama side of the gap is underway. This highway branches off the existing highway running into downtown Yaviza, bypassing the village and extending the North American section of the Panamerican Highway a little over six kilometers. There are two bridges included in this construction, over the Chucunaque and Tuira rivers. In July, construction of this highway was 57% complete.

http://mop.gob.pa/index.php/prensa/sala-de-prensa-2/item/3411-construccion-de-carretera-panamericana-de-yaviza-a-pinogana-y-puentes-sobre-los-rios-chucunaque-y-tuira-alcanza-avance-de-57-7

The construction is visible in Google Earth, which seems to give the best picture of progress; I tried looking into Landsat data, but nothing was as clear as the Google Earth imagery.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

Chris

Interesting. The Google Earth satellite image is only a month old: 12/8/2024.

Scott5114

If they need a control city for the extension south of Yaviza, I have a suggestion.

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

michiganguy123

Will I ever be able to drive from Alaska to Argentina without ever leaving a road?

Rothman

Quote from: michiganguy123 on January 26, 2025, 12:27:06 AMWill I ever be able to drive from Alaska to Argentina without ever leaving a road?

Not in your lifetime.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

Quote from: michiganguy123 on January 26, 2025, 12:27:06 AMWill I ever be able to drive from Alaska to Argentina without ever leaving a road?

Even if they finish the Gap, you'd still need to get out and walk into several immigration offices along the way.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: kphoger on January 27, 2025, 11:20:36 AM
Quote from: michiganguy123 on January 26, 2025, 12:27:06 AMWill I ever be able to drive from Alaska to Argentina without ever leaving a road?

Even if they finish the Gap, you'd still need to get out and walk into several immigration offices along the way.

I'm guessing you'll need gas/EV charging too.



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