I-290 rebuild/expansion feedback

[quickshade]

Rail is a 19th and 20th century. And forget about comparing America and its rail system with rail systems overseas. American cities are farther apart than cities in Europe (the entire land mass of Europe is roughly the same as the land mass of the United States). Japan is a jam-packed island nation. And China and India are developing countries, so any comparisons would not add up.

Thats because we lack the ability to invest in rail options. The "L" in Chicago is decent, but if we were to invest in it properly and make it faster, nicer and more efficient I can bet a lot more people would use it. The number one reason people hate public transportation is reliability.

[kphoger]

those experienced with that commute know to AVOID COMMUTING BY CAR AT ALL COSTS TAKE THE METRA FOR THE LOVE OF GOD lol

inb4 people call me a Metra shill lol but seriously it's the only option when I-290 is this miserably inadequate

Having relied on public transit in the western suburbs for several years in the past...  I hear you.  I only had my own car there for a brief period, but I sometimes had my car-owning girlfriend (now my wife) along.

On several occasions, I've successfully shaved time off a commute by simply avoiding the highways altogether.  Even at rush hour, if you know the right roads to be on, it's better than 88 to 290.  I once reversed down the Naperville Road onramp on my way to play in a concert near Harlem and North Ave, because inbound 88 was a sea of brake lights on a Friday evening.  I ended up taking Route 53 to St Charles Road to 1st Ave to Chicago Ave.  Made it in plenty of time.  I also remember once taking a roommate to O'Hare at the evening rush hour, and making it in less time by taking surface streets (Route 53 to St Charles Road to Route 83 to Irving Park Road).

I never had a problem with Metra.  It would occasionally run more than a few minutes late, but not often.  Easy connection from the UP-W to the green line made things a cinch.  Coming from Naperville, though, there's not as easy a connection to the L, and for me usually involved going all the way to Union Station and then walking to the Clinton subway station under the Ike.  Most services run hourly, which is good.  But weekend trips are less frequent, especially Sundays, and those big holes in the weekend timetable really make driving more appealing.  Most people I knew were fine with taking Metra, and it doesn't have the same stigma as taking a local bus or even the L.  But, in order to rely on Metra regularly for your morning commute, you have to either live close to a station or live near (and know about) a feeder bus line (many of which, at least in those days, were contracted out to yellow school buses, and which had very limited hours of operation)–or else you have to pay for a parking spot (limited) at the nearest station (meaning you're still committed to owning and maintaining a car just so you can drive to said station).

The outer suburbs are simply very difficult to conquer on public transit.  Trust me, I've done it.  I wasn't like most people, being willing to rely daily on a combination of means that sometimes included walking more than a mile, waiting for more than an hour, and even urban hitchhiking.  The system works great for some people, but they are the minority.  Most people do not live by a Metra station.  Most people don't have a work schedule that lines up neatly with feeder bus schedules.  Most people don't want to walk to wait for a bus at 6 AM in February so they can connect to a train so they can connect to another train or bus so they can then walk again to reach their place of employment–only to do the reverse several hours later.  Most people aren't both willing and able to own and maintain a reliable car (practically necessary for day-to-day life in the suburbs) and pay for a train station parking space and rail pass.  Most people, instead, suffer through the drive every day.

[kphoger]

Rail is a 19th and 20th century. And forget about comparing America and its rail system with rail systems overseas. American cities are farther apart than cities in Europe (the entire land mass of Europe is roughly the same as the land mass of the United States). Japan is a jam-packed island nation. And China and India are developing countries, so any comparisons would not add up.

Thats because we lack the ability to invest in rail options. The "L" in Chicago is decent, but if we were to invest in it properly and make it faster, nicer and more efficient I can bet a lot more people would use it. The number one reason people hate public transportation is reliability.

What's unreliable about the L?

[Rick Powell]

What's unreliable about the L?

I find the L to be one of the most reliable systems out there, in and of itself. There are parking problems at many L stations. especially downtown and on the north side, for those wanting to do a park and ride trip. And there are the usual issues with security on a big-city public transit system.

As far as Metra, I am one of its regular exurban customers (as I am with the CTA) several times a month. It is a convenient service for me, saving time, aggravation and money vs. a car-only downtown trip. You need to be on time to catch the train due to its 90%+ on time record, and any hiccup on the car trip in may cause you to miss your train (congestion on I-80 has cost me more than a few misses, or having to chase the train to meet it several stops ahead). I will say that the fare has inflated over 40% in the last seven years, with another small increase due in 2017, but still worth it. The UP-W has more parking issues than the BNSF for park-n-riders, while the RI service has ample parking at nearly all suburban stops.

[dzlsabe]

MODS.  MODS WHERE ARE YOU

For real though, I think that a 4th lane in each direction of the Eisenhower east of I-294 will upgrade the expressway from DISMALLY CONGESTED...to DISMALLY CONGESTED.   It would improve things, but probably not enough; the current bottlenecks would just be moved to different locations.  The Hillside Strangler would still be just as much of a nightmare.  In my opinion, we need to think on a bigger scale.  No matter what, newcomers to the Chicago commute from the western suburbs will find themselves utterly appalled at the amount of traffic...whereas those experienced with that commute know to AVOID COMMUTING BY CAR AT ALL COSTS TAKE THE METRA FOR THE LOVE OF GOD lol

inb4 people call me a Metra shill lol but seriously it's the only option when I-290 is this miserably inadequate

Could not agree more. Yes WE need to THINK on a bigger scale. Yes Dupageco, soon with three, even four? TOLLWAYS with NO serious thought to getting rail transit to do what it needs to do. BTW sorry to wreck your post.

[JREwing78]

Rail is a 19th and 20th century. And forget about comparing America and its rail system with rail systems overseas. American cities are farther apart than cities in Europe (the entire land mass of Europe is roughly the same as the land mass of the United States). Japan is a jam-packed island nation. And China and India are developing countries, so any comparisons would not add up.

There are certain cities in America that are farther apart. But there's a whole bunch of them that are plenty close enough to link together with modern high-speed rail. But it's not (yet) politically expedient to do so. A lot of it is knee-jerk "We're America! We're different than Europe!" hogwash.

A whole bunch of people find car ownership more burdensome than useful, and aren't keen on sitting in gridlock two hours each way on their daily commute just to have the illusion of freedom. Many of them would gladly take the train and use the commuting time for more productive things. I'd much rather have that then people half-assing driving because their phone makes a more compelling claim for their attention.

[ChiMilNet]

What's unreliable about the L?

I find the L to be one of the most reliable systems out there, in and of itself. There are parking problems at many L stations. especially downtown and on the north side, for those wanting to do a park and ride trip. And there are the usual issues with security on a big-city public transit system.

As far as Metra, I am one of its regular exurban customers (as I am with the CTA) several times a month. It is a convenient service for me, saving time, aggravation and money vs. a car-only downtown trip. You need to be on time to catch the train due to its 90%+ on time record, and any hiccup on the car trip in may cause you to miss your train (congestion on I-80 has cost me more than a few misses, or having to chase the train to meet it several stops ahead). I will say that the fare has inflated over 40% in the last seven years, with another small increase due in 2017, but still worth it. The UP-W has more parking issues than the BNSF for park-n-riders, while the RI service has ample parking at nearly all suburban stops.

Honestly, I wish they would invest more in expanding the L. For instance, during bad weather, it often is the on system and network in the city that doesn't totally shut down. If you live in the city, it IS the way to go. If they expanded the blue line to at least Oak Brook, it would be a very wise investment. Yes, they need to expand I-290, and I, for one, am not even totally opposed to the HOT idea, but it would work much better if supplemented with a blue line extension.

[johndoe780]

What's unreliable about the L?

I find the L to be one of the most reliable systems out there, in and of itself. There are parking problems at many L stations. especially downtown and on the north side, for those wanting to do a park and ride trip. And there are the usual issues with security on a big-city public transit system.

As far as Metra, I am one of its regular exurban customers (as I am with the CTA) several times a month. It is a convenient service for me, saving time, aggravation and money vs. a car-only downtown trip. You need to be on time to catch the train due to its 90%+ on time record, and any hiccup on the car trip in may cause you to miss your train (congestion on I-80 has cost me more than a few misses, or having to chase the train to meet it several stops ahead). I will say that the fare has inflated over 40% in the last seven years, with another small increase due in 2017, but still worth it. The UP-W has more parking issues than the BNSF for park-n-riders, while the RI service has ample parking at nearly all suburban stops.

Metra is "fairly" reliable. The freight owned metra lines are definitely more reliable than metra's own line. Not sure who actually drives to the loop if they live within a metra station.

However, if you're not going downtown, then metra is not a viable alternative. If I'm going to uptown or hyde park, metra just doesn't work. AFAIK, the 290 study includes a ROW for CTA to expand the blue line to Mannheim.  I do agree that a blue line extension to mannheim will certainly help knock down traffic. At the current blue line end point in forest park, it's currently unusable. Why would I go through the hillside strangler and then as soon as I get through that choke hold then finally decide to blue line it?

Honestly, the number 1 improvement Metra can use right now is a flyover near the western year that separates the UP-W trains from the MDW, MDN trains.

[dzlsabe]

Rail is a 19th and 20th century. And forget about comparing America and its rail system with rail systems overseas. American cities are farther apart than cities in Europe (the entire land mass of Europe is roughly the same as the land mass of the United States). Japan is a jam-packed island nation. And China and India are developing countries, so any comparisons would not add up.

There are certain cities in America that are farther apart. But there's a whole bunch of them that are plenty close enough to link together with modern high-speed rail. But it's not (yet) politically expedient to do so. A lot of it is knee-jerk "We're America! We're different than Europe!" hogwash.

A whole bunch of people find car ownership more burdensome than useful, and aren't keen on sitting in gridlock two hours each way on their daily commute just to have the illusion of freedom. Many of them would gladly take the train and use the commuting time for more productive things. I'd much rather have that then people half-assing driving because their phone makes a more compelling claim for their attention.

Which is kinda funny coming from WI residents in Janesville and Madison that actually used to have a passenger rail to Chicago. And are exactly one 300 ft crossover from having a rail service to ORD or downtown again. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16794.0 Yes I know, totally off-topic, but I did not bring it.

[compdude787]

On several occasions, I've successfully shaved time off a commute by simply avoiding the highways altogether.

I do this too when I was commuting to school last quarter. It's a heck of a lot better than sitting in stop and go traffic on the freeway.

[Rick Powell]

The I-290 DEIS is now online.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/

[ChiMilNet]

The I-290 DEIS is now online.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/

Interesting. It looks like they realize that an extra lane is needed no matter what. Also, I am glad they realize that the blue line needs to be extended to at least Manheim, though it would be really awesome if they ever did extend it to Oak Brook (just like it's NW section should go to Schaumburg). I'm going to be honest, but I'm not totally against tolling the whole thing... as long as that means the ISTHA takes it over. I think they'd do a much better job rebuilding and widening I-290 than I would trust IDOT to do it, but that's just my opinion. The extra general purpose lane is the ideal solution, but I get the feeling IDOT can't afford it.

[kphoger]

Oak Brook

Pace bus route #322 has departures every 20 minutes from the Pink Line to Oakbrook, and even every 30 minutes on the weekend (Sunday included).  I'd say the passenger traffic is definitely there, considering the beefy bus schedule.  But if the bus is doing fine, then maybe there's no need to extend the L that far.

Pace bus route #301 has departures every 30 minutes from the Blue Line to Oakbrook Monday through Saturday.  I used to use this line (back when it was #747 and the Pink Line was blue), from Wheaton all the way to Forest Park on a somewhat regular basis.  It was my impression back then that the traffic volume was substantially less than on #322, but I'm not sure why.

[dzlsabe]

The I-290 DEIS is now online.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/

Interesting. The extra general purpose lane is the ideal solution, but I get the feeling IDOT can't afford it.

Just dont see how this, even if it could be pulled off in FIVE minimum years, will help, while turning the IKE into WAY bigger mess than it is. Still have not seen #s on what this fiasco will cost.

The IKE is basically a six mile near-gut rehab, the Hypo is NEW construction. Ask any contractor what they would rather do?

[GeekJedi]

Ask any contractor what they would rather do?

They would say they'd rather do a project that isn't based on crazy, which would eliminate the crazy, fictional "hypo" from the list.

[mvak36]

Ask any contractor what they would rather do?

Unless you have a billion dollars lying around, I'm going to guess they will go with whatever project IDOT/ISTHA/etc., will tell them to do. If you want them to build your project, I'd suggest you try to get IDOT/ISTHA to sign off on it. We are but humble roadgeeks who have no power over this stuff (unless it's in Fictional Highways, of course).

[I-39]

So this project is moving forward, but where exactly will they get the funding for this? Will construction on this start within the next decade, or will this be yet another IDOT project stuck in Phase I because of no money.

Also, any word if the Tollway will expand I-88 to eight lanes between the York Road Toll Plaza and the Tri-State to coincide with this? I see the reconstruction of that segment is planned for 2018-2019, but will they allow for future widening when they reconstruct the road?

[ET21]

Added on that if they do expand I-88 in that segment, but would Roosevelt Road get some sort of a concide upgrade between the Tri-State and Kingery Highway? I'd assume those ramps might need to be moved around

[I-39]

Added on that if they do expand I-88 in that segment, but would Roosevelt Road get some sort of a concide upgrade between the Tri-State and Kingery Highway? I'd assume those ramps might need to be moved around

Doubt IDOT would do it, but yes, some of those ramps would need to be moved around.

[Joe The Dragon]

So this project is moving forward, but where exactly will they get the funding for this? Will construction on this start within the next decade, or will this be yet another IDOT project stuck in Phase I because of no money.

Also, any word if the Tollway will expand I-88 to eight lanes between the York Road Toll Plaza and the Tri-State to coincide with this? I see the reconstruction of that segment is planned for 2018-2019, but will they allow for future widening when they reconstruct the road?

Work will be needed for the 2020-2022? central tri state rebuild


some ideas
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10015.msg236033#msg236033

[dzlsabe]

Ask any contractor what they would rather do?

They would say they'd rather do a project that isn't based on crazy, which would eliminate the crazy, fictional "hypo" from the list.

Actually based on geometry and a missing 16 mile road/rail corridor through a large, dense urban area.

Now crazy would be that lazy 60 mile slab of I-43 to Beloit. If WI wants a tollway...

[Joe The Dragon]

Ask any contractor what they would rather do?

They would say they'd rather do a project that isn't based on crazy, which would eliminate the crazy, fictional "hypo" from the list.

Actually based on geometry and a missing 16 mile road/rail corridor through a large, dense urban area.

Now crazy would be that lazy 60 mile slab of I-43 to Beloit. If WI wants a tollway...

US 12 can be made into one. + Richmond bypass and fap 420 with IL-53

[hobsini2]

Oh good Godt. Will he ever just stop?

This is not your thread to post such bullshit DZ. And the more you post about something that has been panned by everyone who has heard it ad nauseam, the more it will continue to get panned for the bad idea it is especially when your estimate of how many homes and businesses that would be displaced and or affected is incredibly low for the reality.

Now bugger off Jackwagon.

[dzlsabe]

Twenty "roadgeeks" is not "panned by everyone". What is "C11 OTHER"? Even if the Hypo # was a hundred homes, bizs, parks, HS etc, that is not insurmountable for a project of this size and scope (~$4B?). Just do not see what ripping up the IKE (~$4B??), cramming two (or four?) lanes in, is going to accomplish ultimately. Its dismally congested most always (this photo around noon? looking at the shadows, is hardly the norm) and will remain that way if any of this boondoggle is actually built.   

[hobsini2]

I said "panned by everyone WHO HEARD IT". Leaving that part out just to fit your silly narrative is dishonest and does not make your argument any more credible.

And you still don't get after I laid out what it takes to put in a 6 (3 each way) lane interstate for ROW that it is going to be thousands of home and businesses affected. Your estimate was so low in a very densely populated area that it is laughable.

And as it has been said to you 83 times before, it's not a ripping up and closure of the Ike while it is being constructed. You do realize that when a highway that is multilane gets a full reconstruction that traffic still remains on that highway through shifts in alignment, right? They did that with the reconstruction and widen of I-88 and I-294 in recent years. If you don't see what that can accomplish, that's on you. You have been told over and over again.

Now, for the last time, take your Hypo I-90 idea back to fantasy land to get panned again.