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Control Cities That Skip Entire States on the Route

Started by Laplace, January 28, 2019, 05:15:30 PM

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US 89

Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there.

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.

I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon -- Macon is used as the southbound I-75 control on the entire stretch between there and Atlanta. Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.


lepidopteran

Quote from: US 89 on February 20, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon ... Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida".  But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta".  Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).

abefroman329

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there.

I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.

I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
And that's a new one, the one I remember was farther south.

sprjus4

Quote from: lepidopteran on February 21, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida".  But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta".  Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).
Must've been a long time ago. Even in 2003, it read "Bypass to Valdosta". Mentioning Florida makes more sense though, especially for long-distance traffic. I'm sure someone heading from Michigan to Florida and has been on the road all day long is going to say "right, Valdosta. That extremely famous and well known by people all over the country, city of 60,000 is the right way to get to Florida." :-D

abefroman329

I remember "Bypass To Florida," but the last time I was on that stretch of I-75 was in 2000.

DJDBVT

Quote from: roadman65 on February 19, 2019, 08:02:06 PM
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro.

The BGS replacements at that location now list only "White River Junction" for 91 north (installed late last year). I always wondered why the "Vt." after "Putney" on those old (1985) signs.

The Nature Boy

Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."

Ben114

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.

The Nature Boy

Quote from: Ben114 on February 24, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.

Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

Beltway

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

ilpt4u

Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30

MikieTimT

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.

What did you even mean by this?  Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70.  A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis:  exit where the big sign tells you to.

I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.

You're confusing me even more.

Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.

I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis.  As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57.  The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take from I-57 to reach Saint Louis.  I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70.  After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?

Exit signage along I-57 shown below...

Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex:  [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex:  [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64:  [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]

Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex:  [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex:  [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70:  [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]




Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway?

I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL.  I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis:  by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.

US-60 between Sikeston and Poplar Bluff just became Future I-57 yesterday, so this is one step closer to changing anyway.  Just need to figure out how to get from Poplar Bluff to Walnut Ridge, and then the southern control city will have to change to Little Rock anyway since I-57 doesn't get anywhere near Memphis.

thenetwork

In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.   

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.

Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

hbelkins

Quote from: ilpt4u on February 24, 2019, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.

I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30

Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Beltway

Quote from: hbelkins on February 25, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 24, 2019, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).

Probably I should have refined my statement to only including the adjoining states, Maryland and Virginia.  Going two or more states away they might want to get more precise.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

empirestate

Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used.  It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.

"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)

There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.

That would be one of the "other reasons."

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2019, 08:05:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.

Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East.   I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.

Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Don't most people call that area "upstate"?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

tdindy88

Those in New York City call it Upstate. I doubt those in Ohio do. It makes no sense for them to do so.

pdx-wanderer

The main control cities on US 95 from Southern Idaho to Winnemucca are Winnemucca and Boise, skipping over Oregon.

sandwalk

Interstate 470 in Ohio uses "Washington PA" as the eastbound control city, skipping West Virginia.  Obviously I-470 is a bypass of Wheeling, but the highway never enters the state of Pennsylvania.

https://goo.gl/maps/QRt3gkNK2N32

https://goo.gl/maps/HEfNFXQaoXU2

ethanhopkin14

The converse to this subject is, although not a control city so to speak (at least not in the particular instance) but an unconventional mileage sign that stays in the same state.  Both ends of I-10 in Texas have a mileage sign for the opposite end of the state.  In Orange westbound there is a sign for the distance to El Paso (850 miles ish) and in Anthony eastbound there is a mileage sign to Beaumont.  I always thought the one in Anthony should have a distance to Orange since it is on the state line and Beaumont is not, but the signs reflect official control cities for I-10.  Of course there are examples all over the country of unconventional mileage signs (both ends of I-40 giving distances to Wilmington, NC and Barstow, CA is one example) but this is the only existence of an novelty distance sign that is confined to one state that I can think of. 

NWI_Irish96

On WB I-80/90 the exit for WB I-80/94 is for Des Moines, skipping IL.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

hobsini2

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL

I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN

I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL

I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY

I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn't actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
RGT, there is a sign for that.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5921383,-88.981687,3a,75y,296.13h,88.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sABbowtQq-EwdaF93-CbWDg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
And as soon as 24 merges onto 57 North, this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6093709,-88.994807,3a,75y,13.39h,84.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s30utkpcWwk-iKs9r6diwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)



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