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Censorship concerning forum management and decisons?

Started by hbelkins, September 23, 2015, 08:27:52 PM

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US71

Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast


roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

sdmichael

Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on September 28, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
Will you just STOP it already? I never advocated for dangerous or reckless behavior. What I do here in California is legal, accepted, and safe. Cease and desist your personal attacks. I've had enough. STOP!
You sure post about it a lot for someone who's had enough.

No, I've had enough of being called an profane names, wrongfully accused of promoting dangerous/reckless behavior, and the personal attacks. Simple enough? If his last post wasn't an attack upon me, then who was it, exactly? It saddens me to see that this sort of abusive and profane behavior is acceptable here. I thought this was a highway forum. Yet, when I ask for it to stop, I'm called out at the "bad guy". Huh.

US71

Quote from: sdmichael on September 28, 2015, 09:28:35 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on September 28, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
Will you just STOP it already? I never advocated for dangerous or reckless behavior. What I do here in California is legal, accepted, and safe. Cease and desist your personal attacks. I've had enough. STOP!
You sure post about it a lot for someone who's had enough.

No, I've had enough of being called an profane names, wrongfully accused of promoting dangerous/reckless behavior, and the personal attacks. Simple enough? If his last post wasn't an attack upon me, then who was it, exactly? It saddens me to see that this sort of abusive and profane behavior is acceptable here. I thought this was a highway forum. Yet, when I ask for it to stop, I'm called out at the "bad guy". Huh.

Funny, I don't see your name actually being mentioned. Of course, some of the posts are probably written in a way to get a reaction from you, which you have done. So, +1 for allowing yourself to be trolled.

Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

hbelkins

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 28, 2015, 03:50:40 PM
I'll answer the 'ban' question right now.

No, nobody gets banned instantly for any amount of time by anybody unless we have a discussion on it first.  The only exceptions to that rule are as follows:
1) Spam bots that get past us and start spamming in the forums.
2) People posting porn. (We might let them back in after a talk unless it's a spam bot.)

Thanks, James. This is a good start and is an answer to one of my questions.

Thank you for actually answering the question that was posed without going off on a tangent like some others have done.

Quote from: US71 on September 28, 2015, 06:12:24 PM


Is there a particular reason you don't want these questions about forum management answered openly?

There's a specific set of forum guidelines publicly posted. Why can't there be a specific procedure for enforcement also made public? James' clarification on bans is a good start.

Quote from: Zeffy on September 28, 2015, 04:10:37 PM
Moderation pertaining to users is a group consensus involving applicable staff members which is discussed in private. Due to the fact that personal relationships are relatively common on tbis forum, especially with staff members, any staff member may choose to not be a part of the decision making process.

If you feel like someone is bypassing the discussion part entirely then please let an administrator know so that it can be handled properly.

This is helpful, too. Thanks.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

US71

Hay Burt: I've attempted to explain it, but since you think I hate you, you don't seem to be paying attention.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

hbelkins

Quote from: US71 on September 29, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
Hay Burt: I've attempted to explain it, but since you think I hate you, you don't seem to be paying attention.

With all due respect, you haven't explained anything. You have offered your opinion on my responses to sdmichael. And that's fine. You, he and apparently some others share that opinion.

But that still doesn't explain if one person is responsible for issuing reprimands, or if they are done by group decision or consensus.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alex

Quote from: hbelkins on September 30, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
But that still doesn't explain if one person is responsible for issuing reprimands, or if they are done by group decision or consensus.

Admins, global mods and regional mods may issue reprimands as they see fit. Whether or not they issue a general SMF based warning, or give a reason in the message is up to them. This does not mean that some discussion does not arise from potential bans, or after one was made however.

The moving of threads or removal of posts falling under the categories of personal insults, political, religious, flame war back and forth, pure trolling, etc. is generally up to the individual moderator or admin. However stating that, some consensus/discussion does occur before this as well. The same can be said for thread locking.

As rickmastfan67 already wrote, bans indeed need a consensus with the two exceptions noted.

Also as mentioned previously, the majority of us know many of the members on the board personally. This leads to a lot of abstaining or not taking a side when it comes to decisions on parties involved. When this happens, whatever the rest of the admin/mods decide generally goes forward.

freebrickproductions

How much longer do y'all think it'll be until this thread is locked? I'm betting at least 3 days.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

Scott5114

Quote from: Alex on September 30, 2015, 03:45:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 30, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
But that still doesn't explain if one person is responsible for issuing reprimands, or if they are done by group decision or consensus.

Admins, global mods and regional mods may issue reprimands as they see fit. Whether or not they issue a general SMF based warning, or give a reason in the message is up to them. This does not mean that some discussion does not arise from potential bans, or after one was made however.

The moving of threads or removal of posts falling under the categories of personal insults, political, religious, flame war back and forth, pure trolling, etc. is generally up to the individual moderator or admin. However stating that, some consensus/discussion does occur before this as well. The same can be said for thread locking.

I'll add to this and say that we're mostly all on the same page as to generalities dealing with when someone should theoretically be moderated. When something that needs to be moderated happens, whoever sees it first is generally the one who deals with it. The only time discussion happens ahead of time is if the moderator is unsure of whether/what action needs to be taken. If the action is taken and it is called into question afterward, then discussion will take place at that time.

That being said, I wasn't involved in this particular decision and am not really familiar with the details of it. I do think that the moderator was justified in their actions, though I think in the future we should be more specific than "you know what you did", even if the moderator feels like you know what you did.

On the other hand, if you have been moderated or warned, repeatedly posting publicly about it is the wrong way of going about getting more information. You should contact the moderator directly through PM, and if you don't know who that is or don't agree with their response, contact any admin and we can either direct you to the correct person or start a group discussion as to whether the appropriate action was taken. Taking it public only serves to gin up mob justice and generally causes more work for the moderators (which is the reason why those threads were removed).

If you have any questions about a moderation event I am happy to look into the matter and get back to you on what was done and why.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

spooky

Quote from: freebrickproductions on September 30, 2015, 06:04:57 PM
How much longer do y'all think it'll be until this thread is locked? I'm betting at least 3 days.

HB's thread about lane splitting in Georgia will be locked before this one.

hbelkins

Quote from: Alex on September 30, 2015, 03:45:13 PM
Admins, global mods and regional mods may issue reprimands as they see fit. Whether or not they issue a general SMF based warning, or give a reason in the message is up to them. This does not mean that some discussion does not arise from potential bans, or after one was made however.

The moving of threads or removal of posts falling under the categories of personal insults, political, religious, flame war back and forth, pure trolling, etc. is generally up to the individual moderator or admin. However stating that, some consensus/discussion does occur before this as well. The same can be said for thread locking.

As rickmastfan67 already wrote, bans indeed need a consensus with the two exceptions noted.

Also as mentioned previously, the majority of us know many of the members on the board personally. This leads to a lot of abstaining or not taking a side when it comes to decisions on parties involved. When this happens, whatever the rest of the admin/mods decide generally goes forward.

Thank you. Coming from you, I consider this the definitive and controlling word on the subject and I appreciate an answer to my question.

I would respectfully suggest that a version of this explanation be converted to a pinned post in this section of the forum and entitled something to the effect of "Guidelines and procedures for warnings, bans, post removal and thread locking."

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 01, 2015, 03:28:19 AMDeleted in the interests of brevity...

I'm a former newspaper editor. I believe in transparency. The more sunshine something gets, the better off it is. That's why I requested and pushed for a public discussion of not necessarily my specific situation, but of forum administration practices in general, over private correspondence. That way everybody knows what's going on.

Quote from: spooky on October 01, 2015, 07:40:14 AM
HB's thread about lane splitting in Georgia will be locked before this one.

Why? Unless something blew up over there in the last couple of days since I last visited the forum, last time I checked it was fairly peaceful and the only response had come from a moderator who pretty much agreed with me.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

And you wonder why I left the staff.

Long story short: This is the goddamn Internet. If you let anything get to you on the Internet, you need to toughen the fuck up. That goes for HB, SDMichael, and JP Nasiatka. All of you. If you don't like what someone says, throw a barb back. But when you let it get to you, you get riled up, yell, call names, etc. Just try to come up with a witty retort and laugh it off. I really don't get the heartache. For the issues I have with JP (and it's nothing personal actually, it's entirely related to posting style and factual inaccuracies - I've never met you so I can't possibly have anything against you as a person), he's at least learned not to react to it. As for Backlin, I think you took things a little too personally as well. I've barely met you and have no reason to have anything against you as a person either, but you decided that our personal connection (e.g. Facebook) should be related to anything that happens on this forum. To me, this forum is the Internet, and I'm willing to offend people a little bit for that. I offend people the same amount in person, but you can see me smile when I do so. ;)

Scott5114

#38
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2015, 02:28:13 PM
I'm a former newspaper editor. I believe in transparency. The more sunshine something gets, the better off it is. That's why I requested and pushed for a public discussion of not necessarily my specific situation, but of forum administration practices in general, over private correspondence. That way everybody knows what's going on.

I understand and generally share the same views; however, there is a line that needs to be walked between transparency and the privacy of users involved. A good example of this is a ban–shall we announce the ban for the sake of transparency, or handle it discreetly so as to avoid undue public spectacle of the whole affair and drawing attention to the user's transgressions? Some will argue for transparency, some will say it's better to let the banned user save face and disappear quietly.

In this case it appears that the Other Scott decided to take a quiet approach, which is usually a good way to go when you have two users in conflict (public discussion often just invites the two users to escalate the matter), but he went too quiet, to the point that the reason for the moderation action, and indeed who enacted it, was unclear to you.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

hbelkins

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 03, 2015, 05:12:47 AM
I understand and generally share the same views; however, there is a line that needs to be walked between transparency and the privacy of users involved. A good example of this is a ban–shall we announce the ban for the sake of transparency, or handle it discreetly so as to avoid undue public spectacle of the whole affair and drawing attention to the user's transgressions? Some will argue for transparency, some will say it's better to let the banned user save face and disappear quietly.

I wouldn't argue for announcement of a ban. All I want is a clarification of who can do what, and when, and how. I have those answers now.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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