Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[stormwatch7721]

I took a mini-trip to Ocean Isle Beach in North Carolina last night. NC has the 4-head flashing yellow arrows.

[SignBridge]

Re: my previous question about the brief steady-red between the steady-yellow arrow and the FYA. I asked about it on the Federal Hwy. Admin. website and got a good explanation from an engineer.

He explained that in some installations the FYA may not operate at all times, maybe only during less congested hours. So the steady-yellow is always followed by the steady-red, so drivers won't just assume that the FYA is coming next after the steady-yellow. During the non-FYA hours, it stays steady-red until the next steady-green arrow. But during FYA-hours, it then changes from steady-red to FYA.

It pays to go directly to the source. 

[rawmustard]

Re: my previous question about the brief steady-red between the steady-yellow arrow and the FYA. I asked about it on the Federal Hwy. Admin. website and got a good explanation from an engineer.

He explained that in some installations the FYA may not operate at all times, maybe only during less congested hours. So the steady-yellow is always followed by the steady-red, so drivers won't just assume that the FYA is coming next after the steady-yellow. During the non-FYA hours, it stays steady-red until the next steady-green arrow. But during FYA-hours, it then changes from steady-red to FYA.

It pays to go directly to the source. 

Plus it's becoming pretty common for a red clearance interval to be set between a left-turn phase and the opposing green regardless of the nature of left-turn operation. The instances where a steady yellow changes immediately to flashing yellow would be where the red clearance interval is set to 0 seconds.

[roadfro]

Does anyone know why:  when it goes from green arrow to steady yellow arrow, it then goes to steady red arrow for a second or two, before going to FYA?  

There's been a few responses to this, which make some good sense. I think one of the more plausible answers comes in the changing mode response, where the FYA may not always show due to operating in protected mode only--so that drivers do not just assume an automatic transition from steady yellow arrow to FYA.

Another possible explanation may come from the signal controller software. A FYA display operating in protected-permitted mode essentially overlaps two separate signal phases: the subject left turn (protected phase) and the opposing green. The steady arrow (green-yellow-red) sequence follows the protected left turn. There is often a 1-2 second red clearance on the left turn phase before the opposing through gets the green. Once the opposing through gets the green, the FYA begins (permitted phase) and overlaps precisely with those signals. I think rawmustard is probably correct in that eliminating that short red arrow can only be achieved by using a 0-second red clearance on the protected left phase--the trend/guidance/rule of thumb seems to be moving toward having at least some red clearance on all signal phases.


EDIT: It's worth noting that, at least in my cursory glance, the MUTCD appears to be silent on what signal indications must be followed by an FYA...

[andytom]

In OR, it's written into law that way.  A steady yellow signal is shown when a current level of ROW is being terminated and changed to a lesser degree of ROW, to be immediately followed by a steady red signal.  You see FYA change to steady green arrow all the time around here but never the reverse.  It always goes through steady yellow and steady red when going from steady green to flashing yellow (a lesser degree of ROW).

[deathtopumpkins]

Biked through downtown Norfolk this morning, and when I was turning off of Brambleton to go park, I had to wait for a light rail train, and noticed that after it passed and the lit no right turn sign went out, the right turn signal changed to a flashing yellow arrow! First time I'd seen one used for a right turn. While a green would suffice here as there is no one you're yielding to as long as there isn't a train and the light is red when trains are crossing, I guess a FYA helps to remind people they are crossing a light rail line.

[roadfro]

^ The issue of a flashing yellow right arrow was discussed in the "Flashing Yellow Arrow Right Turn Signal" thread a few weeks ago. The right FYA in this case is not so much as to remind about crossing a rail line as much as it would be in regards to it being a dedicated signal head for a dedicated lane.

[Ace10]

I'll have to park and see what the FYA intersection near my house does.

The intersection I'm talking about is near the intersection of CR 535 and Reams Rd just north of the Magic Kingdom near Orlando, FL. A new FYA went up a few months ago.

I drove up CR 535 on my way to Winter Garden today and noticed what happened after a green arrow. The signal turned solid yellow, red, then began flashing yellow. The thru lanes in the same direction (northbound) remained green the entire time.

[NE2]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the benefits. Is it correct that, in the case of a lead-lag trap, the flashing yellow left will remain on after the straight lanes receive red balls, and only turn to a yellow and then red left when the cross street is about to get a green?

Does this also apply to the other direction? Will the flashing yellow left come on in the lagging direction when the phase begins and the straight lanes still have red balls? Or is the permissive left time only extended in the leading direction (because of the trap)?

[realjd]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the benefits. Is it correct that, in the case of a lead-lag trap, the flashing yellow left will remain on after the straight lanes receive red balls, and only turn to a yellow and then red left when the cross street is about to get a green?

Does this also apply to the other direction? Will the flashing yellow left come on in the lagging direction when the phase begins and the straight lanes still have red balls? Or is the permissive left time only extended in the leading direction (because of the trap)?

Yes on both. It allows a permissive left to be controlled independently from the straight lanes. If you google "Dallas phasing" you'll find a lot of good info. Dallas originally used shielded green balls - so the straight lanes couldn't see the turn lane's green ball - but the concept is the same.

[US71]

Fayetteville, AR recently added a signal that's FYA with no green phase. Oncoming EB traffic has steady green and steady green arrow, but no FYA,  WB has steady green or FYA, but no green arrow.

Here's a street view of before it was added http://g.co/maps/ngqwk

[kphoger]

I just saw my first FYA on Christmas Day.  This was in Big Lake, Minnesota, at the intersection of MN-25 & US-10.  The funny thing was that the traffic at that intersection was fairly light; maybe it's heavier at other times.

[route56]

I just saw my first FYA on Christmas Day.  This was in Big Lake, Minnesota, at the intersection of MN-25 & US-10.  The funny thing was that the traffic at that intersection was fairly light; maybe it's heavier at other times.

There's quite a few FYA signals closer to where you live... We have several in Lawrence, JoCo, KCK, and KCMO. (Not sure if topeka has any yet, though)

Incedentally, although Lawrence was one of the first cities (if not *the* first) in Kansas to utilize the FYA, they do not use red arrows on most protected-only signals, whereas Topeka and Kansas City have adopted red arrows on most, if not all, protected-only left turn signals. The only red arrow that I know of that is not associated with a FYA signal in Lawrence is at 6th and Massachusetts (where US 40/59 takes a left turn to go across the Kansas River)

[kphoger]

Yeah, I pretty much just drive around Wichita and on long-distance trips anymore.  For example, I've lived in Kansas for a total of thirteen years, and I don't think I've ever gotten off the interstate in Topeka.

[roadfro]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the benefits. Is it correct that, in the case of a lead-lag trap, the flashing yellow left will remain on after the straight lanes receive red balls, and only turn to a yellow and then red left when the cross street is about to get a green?

Does this also apply to the other direction? Will the flashing yellow left come on in the lagging direction when the phase begins and the straight lanes still have red balls? Or is the permissive left time only extended in the leading direction (because of the trap)?

Typically yes on both accounts, when the signal is in permissive or protected/permitted mode. If you are familiar with "Dallas Phasing", the operation is essentially the same, just using a flashing yellow arrow instead of a louvered/shielded circular green. Somewhere earlier in this thread, I posted a link to a video I made illustrating the difference between a standard doghouse, "Dallas Phasing" doghouse and FYA signal in lead-lag PPLT operation.

An easier way to think of it: The flashing yellow left arrow displays concurrently with the circular green indication for the opposing thru. So, if the southbound thru vehicles have a green signal, northbound left turn vehicles simultaneously see a flashing yellow arrow.


The major benefit is the better driver understanding of the PPLT display's intent, proven through various studies. The side effect and major operational benefit is having a 4-section PPLT display that eliminates the lead-lag yellow trap, instead of the old 5-section display where eliminating the yellow trap required shielding/louvers in the circular sections of the signal head and special controller programming in order to effectively work and not confuse motorists.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the benefits. Is it correct that, in the case of a lead-lag trap, the flashing yellow left will remain on after the straight lanes receive red balls, and only turn to a yellow and then red left when the cross street is about to get a green?

Does this also apply to the other direction? Will the flashing yellow left come on in the lagging direction when the phase begins and the straight lanes still have red balls? Or is the permissive left time only extended in the leading direction (because of the trap)?

Typically yes on both accounts, when the signal is in permissive or protected/permitted mode. If you are familiar with "Dallas Phasing", the operation is essentially the same, just using a flashing yellow arrow instead of a louvered/shielded circular green. Somewhere earlier in this thread, I posted a link to a video I made illustrating the difference between a standard doghouse, "Dallas Phasing" doghouse and FYA signal in lead-lag PPLT operation.

An easier way to think of it: The flashing yellow left arrow displays concurrently with the circular green indication for the opposing thru. So, if the southbound thru vehicles have a green signal, northbound left turn vehicles simultaneously see a flashing yellow arrow.


The major benefit is the better driver understanding of the PPLT display's intent, proven through various studies. The side effect and major operational benefit is having a 4-section PPLT display that eliminates the lead-lag yellow trap, instead of the old 5-section display where eliminating the yellow trap required shielding/louvers in the circular sections of the signal head and special controller programming in order to effectively work and not confuse motorists.

I'm still trying to understand how Dallas phasing with the shielded green balls for the left turn lane would not cause confusion for through traffic, especially with a relatively narrow median and during nighttime when shielding wouldn't be as effective. The FYA cannot reasonably be taken as authorization for through traffic to move, unlike a left turn lane signal head that is not fully shielded. And, the better the shielding the less visible it is in the lane for which it is intended. OK, I understand it has been used in some areas (possibly Dallas?), but I think the FYA is a clearer indication of the movements that are allowed. I have seen no negative feedback in local press from the implementation of FYA (and one case of FRA) in this area.

[roadfro]

The major benefit is the better driver understanding of the PPLT display's intent, proven through various studies. The side effect and major operational benefit is having a 4-section PPLT display that eliminates the lead-lag yellow trap, instead of the old 5-section display where eliminating the yellow trap required shielding/louvers in the circular sections of the signal head and special controller programming in order to effectively work and not confuse motorists.

I'm still trying to understand how Dallas phasing with the shielded green balls for the left turn lane would not cause confusion for through traffic, especially with a relatively narrow median and during nighttime when shielding wouldn't be as effective. The FYA cannot reasonably be taken as authorization for through traffic to move, unlike a left turn lane signal head that is not fully shielded. And, the better the shielding the less visible it is in the lane for which it is intended. OK, I understand it has been used in some areas (possibly Dallas?), but I think the FYA is a clearer indication of the movements that are allowed. I have seen no negative feedback in local press from the implementation of FYA (and one case of FRA) in this area.

One note with Dallas Phasing is that the 5-section display is always a separate display located over the left lane controlling turning traffic only, not a shared signal over the lane line meant to be seen by left and thru traffic. Thus, if the signal head has good shielding (properly aligned louvers or a programmable visibility head), the circular green indications in the 5-section head would not be visible to motorists in the thru lanes. No shielding is 100% effective, but the vast majority of thru drivers paying attention to thru signal heads shouldn't be distracted by a properly shielded signal in the left lane.

The FYA signal head display is indeed a clearer indication of the allowable movements, and that is in large part due to the all arrow design. While adopting the FYA, the 2009 MUTCD also adopted a new standard that prohibits the use of circular indications ("balls") in any signal head located exclusively over a left turn lane--effectively mandating the use of all-arrow signal heads for protected left turns and ending usage of peculiarities like the lighted "left" sign for turns in certain areas.

[DaBigE]

WisDOT pointing to benefits of new flashing yellow turn arrows in Milwaukee County

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_2458.html_786229440.html

I guess Wisconsin is getting on the bandwagon now. I still have yet to see one of these in operation. I hadn't even heard of them until reading this thread. Guess I better get up to speed.

There is now one of these at the US 41/WI 26 interchange in Oshkosh.

Mike

Madison has a handful as well.

WisDOT now has a website devoted to them: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/travel/flashing-yellow.htm complete with a brochure pdf and a flash animation.

[twinsfan87]

Madison also has a 3-section FYA signal at University Ave and Ridge St which operates as permissive only (ie, the head is Red Arrow, Solid Yellow Arrow, Flashing Yellow Arrow). The recently released plans for the final leg of the University Ave reconstruction between Segoe Rd and Allen Blvd includes quite a few FYA signals as well.

[DaBigE]

Yes, I believe the one on University was the second installation for the city of Madison.  It was installed during/just prior to that corridor's rehab project.  The first installation is at the Anderson St/Hoffman St intersection by the MATC Truax Campus.  There is another one that was installed within the past year on Sheboygan Ave, next to the Hill Farms Transportation Bldg.  It was installed as part of the Target store construction at Hilldale. 

The city of Monona also installed one along Broadway at the intersection with Copps Ave.

WisDOT also recently converted its signals at Wis 51 (Stoughton Rd) at Kinsman Blvd to 4-section FYA's.  Despite WisDOT depicting permissive-only FYA signals, I doubt we will see many/any on the state system, with its reduced phasing capabilities when compared to protected/permissive FYA's.

[brownpelican]

They have made it to Louisiana. I spotted several of these signals along Ambassador Caffery Parkway in Lafayette this past weekend.

[74/171FAN]

There is a third one in Blacksburg on Main St(US 460 Business) at Roanoke St in the middle of downtown.

[florida]

I haven't seen a FYA installation here personally, but it's not like Florida to sign something like that. There are no "Left Turn Yield On Green (ball)" signs or "Left Turn Signal" signs or "Left On Green Arrow Only" signs here like there are in other states.

The only FYA signal I've seen so far is on County Road 535 in Orlando/Windermere/Winter Garden, just north of the Magic Kingdom and near the intersection of 535 and Reams Rd. The signal went active maybe a month ago. There is a sign in the median that states something along the lines of "LEFT TURN YIELD ON FLASHING ARROW".

Now since this part of 535 is a county road, Orange county probably handled the construction and configuration of this traffic signal, so the state of Florida's policy may not be to put a sign next to the FYA, but Orange County probably will. With all due respect, I think the people down here who have no idea where they are going would benefit from knowing what the signal means, but I highly doubt anyone would get their head out of their ass long enough to read the sign and follow its instructions.

I have seen the "Left Turn Yield on Green [ball]" signs at intersections in the past. Swear they've been used in the Daytona Beach area.

FYAs have only appeared at new signal intersections like SR 436 and Orange Ave in Forest City and on US 17/92 and Church St in Longwood. Gainesville recently got them when the CR 329 portion of Main Street was redesigned, near the post office; they're a horizontal four-ball signal with two other three-ball signals for a total of three signals in each direction for a two-lane road.

[roadman65]

CR 535 has one at a new signal just north of Reams Road.  This would be between Winter Garden and Lake Buena Vista in Orange County, FL.  It is NB and there is even a sign to let motorists know that when the light is flashing, motorists have to yield before making a left turn to cross the SB lanes.

[bulkyorled]

Pasadena, CA has a couple up Arroyo Pkwy but that seems to be the one and only street I've ever seen with them.