Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[tradephoric]

I think this illustrates one of the doubts I have with the FYA setup.  For years flashing yellow has indicated that other traffic had a flashing red.  Now we have changed it so the meaning of the color varies with the shape (arrow versus ball).  I could see this being an issue for some of those with many years of driving experience under the old paradigm.

It has never done anything of the sort. Yes, most of the time there's been a flashing red to go with the flashing arrow, but it's only ever indicated "proceed with caution". Any observation anyone has made beyond that isn't something the DOT can do anything about.

It's more than just doubt to me at this point.   In Macomb County, MI there has been a 30% increase in injury accidents at intersections that have been converted to the FYA.  The FYAs aren't new to this region, with widespread installations beginning around 2007.  You would think that injury accidents would level off to the pre-FYA levels once the general public gets use to driving them but this hasn't been the case.

[PurdueBill]

Indeed, couldn't someone needing to u-turn wind up wasting the whole FYA phase waiting for a green arrow, while everyone behind them has to wait?  Seems like something outside the intent of the FYA.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....flashing green is really wasted.  It would be appropriate for situations like what the FYA is being used for.  It's a shame that with only three colors, circles and balls, and steady and flashing, leading to limited combinations, that flashing green is not allowed when it probably could be used for something like what FYA means, leaving flashing yellow for something else like its preexisting meanings.

[tradephoric]

It's a shame that with only three colors, circles and balls, and steady and flashing, leading to limited combinations, that flashing green is not allowed when it probably could be used for something like what FYA means, leaving flashing yellow for something else like its preexisting meanings.

If the FYA wasn't already confusing enough to the general public, let's add a flashing green to the mix.  I don't see the benefit of complicating the FYA any more than it already is.

[PurdueBill]

It's a shame that with only three colors, circles and balls, and steady and flashing, leading to limited combinations, that flashing green is not allowed when it probably could be used for something like what FYA means, leaving flashing yellow for something else like its preexisting meanings.

If the FYA wasn't already confusing enough to the general public, let's add a flashing green to the mix.  I don't see the benefit of complicating the FYA any more than it already is.

The horse is out of the stable for sure.  I mean in the first place--if it could all be done over again from the start, flashing green should have been saved for certain uses like this.  It's too late to replace FYA with FGA, especially when FYA basically replaces what a green circular signal has always meant for left turning traffic anyway.  There are certainly situations where it would be nice to let left turns go while holding thru traffic, but Dallas phasing never caught on elsewhere and the extra signal face(s) are probably a discouragement too, especially to local agencies.

[Mergingtraffic]

I think this illustrates one of the doubts I have with the FYA setup.  For years flashing yellow has indicated that other traffic had a flashing red.  Now we have changed it so the meaning of the color varies with the shape (arrow versus ball).  I could see this being an issue for some of those with many years of driving experience under the old paradigm.

It has never done anything of the sort. Yes, most of the time there's been a flashing red to go with the flashing arrow, but it's only ever indicated "proceed with caution". Any observation anyone has made beyond that isn't something the DOT can do anything about.

It's more than just doubt to me at this point.   In Macomb County, MI there has been a 30% increase in injury accidents at intersections that have been converted to the FYA.  The FYAs aren't new to this region, with widespread installations beginning around 2007.  You would think that injury accidents would level off to the pre-FYA levels once the general public gets use to driving them but this hasn't been the case.

Exactly, we were taught that anything "yellow"  means that our right of way is coming to an end.  Usually you have yellow or a yellow arrow after a green or green arrow.  And if you do have a yellow arrow that means your protected left turn (right of way) is coming to an end.

Now, with the FYA, it means you don't have the right of way.  That, to me, could mean problems with people darting out thinking,"well hey my side is yellow and that means my right of way is ending."

Case is point from the Oregon Live article:
"Last month, Porter's wife, Shari, suffered minor injuries after her sister attempted to turn left at the flashing yellow arrow from the Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway to Oregon 217. His sister-in-law didn't know the oncoming traffic had a green, he said.

Instead of yielding, she turned into the path of an approaching car that hit her  SUV, sending it rolling until it came to rest upside-down against a sign pole.

"These flashing arrows  definitely improve traffic flow,"  Porter said. "But I have to ask: At what price?"  "

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2013/04/oregon_traffic_study_widesprea.html

[Big John]

A flashing green arrow would be confusing to Canadian drivers as a flashing green arrow there means it is a protected turning phase.

[DaBigE]

Exactly, we were taught that anything "yellow"  means that our right of way is coming to an end.  Usually you have yellow or a yellow arrow after a green or green arrow.  And if you do have a yellow arrow that means your protected left turn (right of way) is coming to an end.

That's been my problem with the flashing yellow arrow since its inception. It's an even bigger problem in cases where the flashing yellow arrow is part of a three-headed signal tower (RA, YA, FYA). For the color blind, how are they to know the bottom was not a green arrow, thus thinking that when the solid yellow arrow is active, a protected phase is coming to an end?

[Alps]

I think this illustrates one of the doubts I have with the FYA setup.  For years flashing yellow has indicated that other traffic had a flashing red.  Now we have changed it so the meaning of the color varies with the shape (arrow versus ball).  I could see this being an issue for some of those with many years of driving experience under the old paradigm.

It has never done anything of the sort. Yes, most of the time there's been a flashing red to go with the flashing arrow, but it's only ever indicated "proceed with caution". Any observation anyone has made beyond that isn't something the DOT can do anything about.

It's more than just doubt to me at this point.   In Macomb County, MI there has been a 30% increase in injury accidents at intersections that have been converted to the FYA.  The FYAs aren't new to this region, with widespread installations beginning around 2007.  You would think that injury accidents would level off to the pre-FYA levels once the general public gets use to driving them but this hasn't been the case.

Exactly, we were taught that anything "yellow"  means that our right of way is coming to an end.  Usually you have yellow or a yellow arrow after a green or green arrow.  And if you do have a yellow arrow that means your protected left turn (right of way) is coming to an end.

Now, with the FYA, it means you don't have the right of way.  That, to me, could mean problems with people darting out thinking,"well hey my side is yellow and that means my right of way is ending."

Case is point from the Oregon Live article:
"Last month, Porter's wife, Shari, suffered minor injuries after her sister attempted to turn left at the flashing yellow arrow from the Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway to Oregon 217. His sister-in-law didn't know the oncoming traffic had a green, he said.

Instead of yielding, she turned into the path of an approaching car that hit her  SUV, sending it rolling until it came to rest upside-down against a sign pole.

"These flashing arrows  definitely improve traffic flow,"  Porter said. "But I have to ask: At what price?"  "

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2013/04/oregon_traffic_study_widesprea.html

So she wasn't watching what the other car was doing at all. It's a shame that all the injuries didn't happen to the driver too stupid to watch traffic. I don't care what my signal says I can do, I'm watching what you're doing to make sure I have room to do what I'm allowed to do.

[Revive 755]

Exactly, we were taught that anything "yellow"  means that our right of way is coming to an end.  Usually you have yellow or a yellow arrow after a green or green arrow.  And if you do have a yellow arrow that means your protected left turn (right of way) is coming to an end.

I wonder if upping the flashing rate on the yellow arrow might work better?

[Revive 755]

I thought INDOT wasn't going to use it. It's sort of confusing. Not enough people in the USA understand what it means. They don't have any in Terre Haute yet and I hope they don't put any any here. They will cause wrecks.

It appears INDOT may be deploying some FYA's soon; see the second and third presentations in http://rebar.ecn.purdue.edu/LTAP1/Training/Handout/Transportation%202013%20Presentation%20Slides.pdf (second presentation starts on Page 31, third presentation starts on Page 52)

It has never done anything of the sort. Yes, most of the time there's been a flashing red to go with the flashing arrow, but it's only ever indicated "proceed with caution". Any observation anyone has made beyond that isn't something the DOT can do anything about.

The excerpts of the Indiana Driver's Manual on Page 43 and 44 indicate the change in meaning for flashing yellow.

[DaBigE]

The excerpts of the Indiana Driver's Manual on Page 43 and 44 indicate the change in meaning for flashing yellow.

And how many people are going to notice (outside of the roadgeek community & Drivers' Ed classes)?

[Scott5114]

The excerpts of the Indiana Driver's Manual on Page 43 and 44 indicate the change in meaning for flashing yellow.

And how many people are going to notice (outside of the roadgeek community & Drivers' Ed classes)?

More communities should do what Norman did when they deployed FYAs–first there was a test intersection (12th Ave SE & Lindsey), then there was a pamphlet about the new signals mailed out with the water bill. All FYAs have a sign to the right of them reading "Left Turn Yield On Flashing (yellow arrow graphic)".

As a result, everyone seems to be on the same page with FYAs in Norman.

[jeffandnicole]

I won't be satisfied until all lights are flashing.  And then we can add different flash rates.  Then the lights can alternate flashing.  Add in some flashing arrows as well.  Don't forget about the street lights as well.  And billboards - especially those LED ones. The roads better look like a damn carnival with all the flashing lights.  And I hope there's a truck selling cotton candy on the shoulder.  With flashing lights.

[Revive 755]

Look like the first FYA for Indiana will be up soon:
http://www.pal-item.com/article/20130925/NEWS01/309250012/New-turn-light-coming-intersection-Richmond-s-west-side?nclick_check=1

[PColumbus73]

So far there are no FYA signals in South Carolina, however, FYAs have pretty much taken over North Carolina

[JMoses24]

A FYA made it to Fort Mitchell, Kentucky on Dixie Highway at I-75, exit 188. It is at the entrance ramp to southbound 75 from northbound Dixie Highway. Spotted it on Saturday, didn't realize in time to get a photo.

[Mdcastle]

So far there are no FYA signals in South Carolina, however, FYAs have pretty much taken over North Carolina

US 158 looks like a disco through the Kitty Hawk area...

[Indyroads]

Look like the first FYA for Indiana will be up soon:
http://www.pal-item.com/article/20130925/NEWS01/309250012/New-turn-light-coming-intersection-Richmond-s-west-side?nclick_check=1

Yaaay its about time


Fixed quote. - rmf67

[rickmastfan67]

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-10-10/news/mc-red-arrow-pa-20131010_1_arrow-traffic-lights-signals

That article above talks about why PennDOT hasn't "approved" the flashing yellow lights here in the state yet....

PennDOT Harrisburg spokesman Rich Kirkpatrick said engineers felt that the state Vehicle Code doesn't adequately explain or define how the driver is to respond to the flashing-yellow arrow, resulting in possible confusion. In fact, not only does the law fail to give an adequate explanation, but it offers no explanation at all, that I could find. The steady yellow "indication," as the code describes it, is the only one defined.

[Mr_Northside]

I'll side with PennDOT on that...

[Thing 342]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but VDOT put up a whole bunch of FYA signals along US-60/Warwick Blvd near the CNU campus in Newport News as part of a reconstruction project.

[Mdcastle]

So what's the point of showing a solid red arrow at the end of the protected phase and making left turning traffic come to halt for a few seconds. Was this something they always thought would be desirable on protected / permissive installations but wasn't possible to do until the FYAs. (And Mn/DOTs new cluster signals for option lanes still don't do this).

[PColumbus73]

I've never encountered one in person, but it sounds like a Flashing Red Arrow would be more effective than the FYA, maybe a Delaware native who has experienced both can give their opinion.

[tradephoric]

I've never encountered one in person, but it sounds like a Flashing Red Arrow would be more effective than the FYA, maybe a Delaware native who has experienced both can give their opinion.

I agree with you PColumbus.  The problem is a Flashing Red Arrow, at least in theory, requires drivers to come to a complete stop before making a permissive left turn.  In practice, Delaware drivers don't come to a complete stop when encountering a flashing red arrow when there is a safe gap in traffic.   I would rather have Delaware drivers bend the rules (roll through a flashing red arrow when there is a safe gap in traffic) than have a driver pull out in-front of oncoming traffic because they are confused with the meaning of the flashing yellow arrow. 

By solving a problem that only existed in theory, they are creating a bigger problem that exists in practice.

[PColumbus73]

Agreed, in general practice, a flashing yellow (a beacon or out-of-service traffic light) indicates that you have the right of way. A flashing red indicates you have to stop and proceed if safe to do so. I think this is the confusion that many drivers are having with the FYA.

It sounds like Delaware drivers treat a flashing red arrow as a yield sign, which would make sense in cases where the oncoming traffic volume wouldn't warrant a full-time protected left turn signal.

I'd like to see a switch from the FYA to the Flashing Red Arrow, although, in South Carolina, we use a double-red left turn signal for one-lane protected left turns, which looks EXACTLY like the Delaware Flashing Red Arrow. Maybe the FRA could be a 4-section tower like the FYA, or have a single red arrow that alternates, as the MUTCD allows.