Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[UCFKnights]

One non-traditional configuration that possibly could be getting confused with whats being discussed is I've seen a signal that was set for split phase for certain hours of the day (school start/end times) while the rest of the day, it operates as a permissive left turn, with no dedicated left turn lane constructed for the intersection. It got rebuilt a few years back to be more traditional.

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

[tradephoric]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

[jeffandnicole]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

This is one of those things where people see the end result, and never think about everything else that goes into programming a light.

In order to go from a 3 head to 4 head light, you need to verify the additional 12" of clearance over the road is available.  In order to do that, the posts holding the mast or cable over the roadway has to be constructed to the proper height.  The light has to be programmed to allow for the FYA phase.  In order to program that phase, the proper software has to be installed in the junction box.  In order to have the proper software, it needs to be ordered and installed.  And I skipped over a lot of other stuff that needs to be done.

So, basically, what people see is the end result of months if not years of work.  The 3 hours it took to switch out a traffic light for another traffic light is the cumulation of all that work, not the start of it!

[fwydriver405]

Flashing Yellow Arrow Doghouse by Wisconsin Sirens & Signals

This video was recorded by a user here: JMAN Wis&S

We've talked about the signal before, and I think my main issue was the FYA signal on the left side of the intersection. It displays a red arrow that the overhead signal does not. Both signals should be 5-section, if the left-side mast-mounted signal is to be supplemental to the overhead signal.

Looking back at some video of the Maine intersection, after the protected phase ends following the steady yellow arrow, it goes right to the flashing yellow like it does at most FYA's in Massachusetts, it does not go to the red arrow after the steady yellow arrow after the leading left expires.

[PAHighways]

Discovered what could possibly be Allegheny County's first FYA install at PA 148's southern terminus at PA 48 in McKeesport:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/w6vjX9Hm9r3x6Vvg7.

This is the first signal to be installed at this intersection that I can remember.

SM-G965U

[UCFKnights]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

This is one of those things where people see the end result, and never think about everything else that goes into programming a light.

In order to go from a 3 head to 4 head light, you need to verify the additional 12" of clearance over the road is available.  In order to do that, the posts holding the mast or cable over the roadway has to be constructed to the proper height.  The light has to be programmed to allow for the FYA phase.  In order to program that phase, the proper software has to be installed in the junction box.  In order to have the proper software, it needs to be ordered and installed.  And I skipped over a lot of other stuff that needs to be done.

So, basically, what people see is the end result of months if not years of work.  The 3 hours it took to switch out a traffic light for another traffic light is the cumulation of all that work, not the start of it!

Aren't the posts fairly standardized for a typical span wire/concrete post intersection? I've seen DOT yards full of them, and they all are exactly the same size and width and seem to have pre-cut holes/conduits for the wires at specific heights. Unless there is special circumstances... and when they're doing construction, they seem to throw a bunch more signals onto the wire without changing anything else...

This is UCF's PR on that study: https://www.ucf.edu/news/ucf-researcher-works-to-make-left-turns-safer-more-efficient/
They've apparently been working on this project since 2012.

I am curious, is installation of FYA signal heads but keeping them programmed as a protective phase at all times common in any other areas outside of Orlando? Can't say I've seen too much of that anywhere else. They seem to install the signal heads at all new projects with a single left turn lane with no visibility issues no matter what now. Just won't turn them on half the time.

[Amtrakprod]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

This is one of those things where people see the end result, and never think about everything else that goes into programming a light.

In order to go from a 3 head to 4 head light, you need to verify the additional 12" of clearance over the road is available.  In order to do that, the posts holding the mast or cable over the roadway has to be constructed to the proper height.  The light has to be programmed to allow for the FYA phase.  In order to program that phase, the proper software has to be installed in the junction box.  In order to have the proper software, it needs to be ordered and installed.  And I skipped over a lot of other stuff that needs to be done.

So, basically, what people see is the end result of months if not years of work.  The 3 hours it took to switch out a traffic light for another traffic light is the cumulation of all that work, not the start of it!

Aren't the posts fairly standardized for a typical span wire/concrete post intersection? I've seen DOT yards full of them, and they all are exactly the same size and width and seem to have pre-cut holes/conduits for the wires at specific heights. Unless there is special circumstances... and when they're doing construction, they seem to throw a bunch more signals onto the wire without changing anything else...

This is UCF's PR on that study: https://www.ucf.edu/news/ucf-researcher-works-to-make-left-turns-safer-more-efficient/
They've apparently been working on this project since 2012.

I am curious, is installation of FYA signal heads but keeping them programmed as a protective phase at all times common in any other areas outside of Orlando? Can't say I've seen too much of that anywhere else. They seem to install the signal heads at all new projects with a single left turn lane with no visibility issues no matter what now. Just won't turn them on half the time.

I've seen stuff like that in Bloomington MN, right near the big mall.


iPhone

[jeffandnicole]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

This is one of those things where people see the end result, and never think about everything else that goes into programming a light.

In order to go from a 3 head to 4 head light, you need to verify the additional 12" of clearance over the road is available.  In order to do that, the posts holding the mast or cable over the roadway has to be constructed to the proper height.  The light has to be programmed to allow for the FYA phase.  In order to program that phase, the proper software has to be installed in the junction box.  In order to have the proper software, it needs to be ordered and installed.  And I skipped over a lot of other stuff that needs to be done.

So, basically, what people see is the end result of months if not years of work.  The 3 hours it took to switch out a traffic light for another traffic light is the cumulation of all that work, not the start of it!

Aren't the posts fairly standardized for a typical span wire/concrete post intersection? I've seen DOT yards full of them, and they all are exactly the same size and width and seem to have pre-cut holes/conduits for the wires at specific heights. Unless there is special circumstances... and when they're doing construction, they seem to throw a bunch more signals onto the wire without changing anything else...

Unless you have a tape measure with you, it would be impossible from a distance to tell if they are all the same height and width.  From a distance, you wouldn't tell the difference of a few inches.  Next time you're standing talking to someone, try to figure out their exact height.  Most likely you'll be off an inch or two or three.  Now try relaying that same process to a bunch of poles laying on the ground a few hundred feet away and figure out their exact heights!  They may look the same, and no doubt some of them are the same, but they're definitely not all the same.

[UCFKnights]

Orlando has been building new signals with 4 head FYAs for a little while now, often programmed at all times to operated in protected mode, which has driven me crazy. Apparently, they commissioned UCF to study having them dynamically change to a FYA when traffic is light, and they've apparently been testing that:
https://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=973570183&videoVersion=1.0

Seems pointless to me... why not just have it flash all the time? I'd imagine they obviously can't have it going back to protected after it switched to FYA for that cycle, and there probably is at least some sort of delay for it to enter FYA mode...

A four-head FYA that never runs the permissive phase would be quite frustrating.  They are almost needling you into thinking that the light will be permissive at some point in the cycle when it never is!  I guess having the four-head FYA gives the agency options to run permissively down the road, but just swap out the left turn heads when they actually decides to run the signal permissively.

This is one of those things where people see the end result, and never think about everything else that goes into programming a light.

In order to go from a 3 head to 4 head light, you need to verify the additional 12" of clearance over the road is available.  In order to do that, the posts holding the mast or cable over the roadway has to be constructed to the proper height.  The light has to be programmed to allow for the FYA phase.  In order to program that phase, the proper software has to be installed in the junction box.  In order to have the proper software, it needs to be ordered and installed.  And I skipped over a lot of other stuff that needs to be done.

So, basically, what people see is the end result of months if not years of work.  The 3 hours it took to switch out a traffic light for another traffic light is the cumulation of all that work, not the start of it!

Aren't the posts fairly standardized for a typical span wire/concrete post intersection? I've seen DOT yards full of them, and they all are exactly the same size and width and seem to have pre-cut holes/conduits for the wires at specific heights. Unless there is special circumstances... and when they're doing construction, they seem to throw a bunch more signals onto the wire without changing anything else...

Unless you have a tape measure with you, it would be impossible from a distance to tell if they are all the same height and width.  From a distance, you wouldn't tell the difference of a few inches.  Next time you're standing talking to someone, try to figure out their exact height.  Most likely you'll be off an inch or two or three.  Now try relaying that same process to a bunch of poles laying on the ground a few hundred feet away and figure out their exact heights!  They may look the same, and no doubt some of them are the same, but they're definitely not all the same.

I mean when they're all lined up on the ground next to each other or stacked, its real easy to see that they're all the same. They keep them fairly organized on the ground from what I've seen.

[fwydriver405]

Are there any FYA's (or protected only signals) that use steady circular red or yellow balls instead of steady red/yellow arrows? This one at I-89 and Route 3A in Concord has all arrows for the FYA, except for the clearance interval which uses a steady yellow ball instead of an arrow. There are three protected-only signals in Nashua, NH that are like that as well, steady red and green arrows but a yellow ball for clearance:

I-89 and Route 3A, Concord, NH:


Nashua, NH:
DW Highway and Graham Dr
DW Highway and Spit Brook Rd (couldn't get the ball to light up but a closeup of the head itself)
DW Highway and Dan Chen St

[Revive 755]

Are there any FYA's (or protected only signals) that use steady circular red or yellow balls instead of steady red/yellow arrows?

Missouri has a few:

* MO 58 near I-49
* MO 95 near US 60 (it's not visible in streetview).

There's probably a few more out there in Missouri.

[jakeroot]

I've seen FYA's (mostly for right turns) that use a circular red indication, but never one that had an all-arrow display except for the steady-yellow indication.

I've not seen a protected left that operates this way either. Must be more common in eastern states?

EDIT: I have seen something similar to this in Richmond, British Columbia. Some protected-only signals display a solid yellow arrow and a solid yellow orb at the same time. The bottom arrow display is bi-modal, and the upper two displays are circular indications.

[ozarkman417]

Are there any FYA's (or protected only signals) that use steady circular red or yellow balls instead of steady red/yellow arrows?

Missouri has a few:

* MO 58 near I-49
* MO 95 near US 60 (it's not visible in streetview).

There's probably a few more out there in Missouri.

Flashing yellow arrows have been appearing everywhere in Springfield, Missouri these past couple years. I almost believe that there are more FYAs than green balls here. If not, it's very close.

[Amtrakprod]

Are there any FYA's (or protected only signals) that use steady circular red or yellow balls instead of steady red/yellow arrows? This one at I-89 and Route 3A in Concord has all arrows for the FYA, except for the clearance interval which uses a steady yellow ball instead of an arrow. There are three protected-only signals in Nashua, NH that are like that as well, steady red and green arrows but a yellow ball for clearance:

I-89 and Route 3A, Concord, NH:


Nashua, NH:
DW Highway and Graham Dr
DW Highway and Spit Brook Rd (couldn't get the ball to light up but a closeup of the head itself)
DW Highway and Dan Chen St

I've filmed one is Massachusetts: https://youtu.be/kNvR_sIJc_E


iPhone

[mrsman]

The one shown above from MA is really interesting.  Many feel that a steady yellow orb is more distinguishable from the FYA than a steady yellow arrow, so that's good.  It also seems that this signal is a special application of split-phasing - the two opposing directions have green at totally different times, but nonetheless a permissive left turn is allowed while the opposing side gets the green.  This eliminates one of the worst aspects of delay involved with split-phasing.

[SignBridge]

In that Massachusetts video why is there still a sign posted saying "Left turn yield on green ball"? Did they forget to take it down when they modernized the signal?

[fwydriver405]

In that Massachusetts video why is there still a sign posted saying "Left turn yield on green ball"? Did they forget to take it down when they modernized the signal?

For the same reason Dover, New Hampshire forgot to remove the "LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN"  when it was modernised in 2008...

NH Route 108 and Back River Rd

[jakeroot]

The one shown above from MA is really interesting.  Many feel that a steady yellow orb is more distinguishable from the FYA than a steady yellow arrow, so that's good.  It also seems that this signal is a special application of split-phasing - the two opposing directions have green at totally different times, but nonetheless a permissive left turn is allowed while the opposing side gets the green.  This eliminates one of the worst aspects of delay involved with split-phasing.

I totally agree. It's actually a pretty smart setup. Granted, it only replaced a doghouse, so the operation isn't much different than before. But many states would split-phase that jughandle (especially given the visibility, even though I think it's fine), so props to Mass.

One thing I noticed at the intersection (link here) is that the near-side supplemental signal still appears to use circular RYG indications.

[fwydriver405]

One thing I noticed at the intersection (link here) is that the near-side supplemental signal still appears to use circular RYG indications.

Another thing I should mention is the "supplemental" signal on Hartwell Ave goes completely blank during the permissive FYA phase. Here are some photos I took of the intersection on 16 February 2019 describing what I mean:

All-red
Protected-left phase
Yellow clearance
Permissive FYA phase

[fwydriver405]

Then there's this signal on the Revere Beach Parkway (MA-16) which has heads that are set up for FYA on Webster and Garfield Dr, but all of the indications are circular indications... right now it is operating in split-phase (or permissive only operation). Possible conversion to FYA once left-turn lanes are added?

[jakeroot]

One thing I noticed at the intersection (link here) is that the near-side supplemental signal still appears to use circular RYG indications.

Another thing I should mention is the "supplemental" signal on Hartwell Ave goes completely blank during the permissive FYA phase. Here are some photos I took of the intersection on 16 February 2019 describing what I mean:

All-red
Protected-left phase
Yellow clearance
Permissive FYA phase

Oh nice! Thanks for those photos. I was very curious how that approach looked, as it's not covered by Street View for the newest imagery.

I was thinking that a near-side signal should be "supplementary" to the far-side signals. In this case, because there is no far-side green orb, the near-side signal should, theoretically, also be an FYA. But I see that they got around this issue by simply disabling the green orb during the permissive phase. Very strange but I suppose it works.

[Amtrakprod]

In that Massachusetts video why is there still a sign posted saying "Left turn yield on green ball"? Did they forget to take it down when they modernized the signal?

For the same reason Dover, New Hampshire forgot to remove the "LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN"  when it was modernised in 2008...

NH Route 108 and Back River Rd

I've been through that one, I didn't even check history view I could tell it was changed from a bimodal signal


iPhone

[Amtrakprod]

I should note that Massachusetts changed that 3 headed signal to a FYA back in May.


iPhone

[fwydriver405]

Could this LPI configuration use a pair of right and left FYA signals?

US-2, Bangor, Maine

Stays red ball for the ped phase, then goes to circular green to allow the left and right turns to turn permissively.

[jakeroot]

Could this LPI configuration use a pair of right and left FYA signals?

US-2, Bangor, Maine

Stays red ball for the ped phase, then goes to circular green to allow the left and right turns to turn permissively.

So right turns must yield, but they have a solid red light. Which means (after stopping) 'yield'.

I think an FYA would be warranted here.