Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[roadfro]

Is this controller programmed incorrectly?

Definitely! I understand programming the red arrow for the beginning of the phase, before the flashing yellow phase, but it should not be allowed to activate mid-cycle.

When you walked up, even though maybe they want the red arrow for when the pedestrian phase is active, it's obviously better (and safer) to just activate the walk signal with the FYA for those circumstances. Of course, if it's a pedestrian-heavy area, it's better just to keep the WALK sign on (activated automatically at the beginning of every phase, reactivating every 15-20 seconds or whatever), and just use a regular FYA during that phase.

I concur with this. There is no reason to move to immediate red arrow and force a yellow trap in this way.

It would make more sense for the main street here to have the pedestrian signal rest in walk and allow left turns across it in FYA.

[fwydriver405]

Is this controller programmed incorrectly?

Definitely! I understand programming the red arrow for the beginning of the phase, before the flashing yellow phase, but it should not be allowed to activate mid-cycle.

When you walked up, even though maybe they want the red arrow for when the pedestrian phase is active, it's obviously better (and safer) to just activate the walk signal with the FYA for those circumstances. Of course, if it's a pedestrian-heavy area, it's better just to keep the WALK sign on (activated automatically at the beginning of every phase, reactivating every 15-20 seconds or whatever), and just use a regular FYA during that phase.

I concur with this. There is no reason to move to immediate red arrow and force a yellow trap in this way.

It would make more sense for the main street here to have the pedestrian signal rest in walk and allow left turns across it in FYA.

After getting back to a signal tech, I got the following response:

After talking to a signal tech, we determined that the situation shown in your video is not a yellow trap as the adjacent thru phase remains green. As such the "false"  sense of oncoming traffic receiving a yellow/red indication doesn't occur.

He also confirmed that the controller would need to cycle through a barrier before the FYA would be serviced again, which would be triggered by a vehicle putting a call on the protected phase.

Resting in walk would require the signal to service the entire pedestrian clearance (Flashing Don't Walk) before servicing a call on a conflicting phase. Depending on the crossing, this could add 15-20 seconds of delay for the sidestreet or a mainline left turn, which would be unacceptable late at night. Additionally, at this intersection with the FYA phase inhibit with the Walk, the FYA would never be active. 

The concept of yellow trap stems from the permissive left turn driver's assumption that if one thru phase is terminating then the other thru phase is also terminating. In this scenario, neither thru phase is terminating thus the yellow trap situation never occurs. Through the FYA indication termination sequence the permissive left turn driver is warned that the permissive phase is ending and that he should stop at the stop bar. As the adjacent thru indications do not terminate then the driver has no reason to assume the opposing thru indications are terminating.

I thought Section 4D.05.03.E of the MUTCD prohibits this phasing (or any yellow trap):

Section 4D.05 Application of Steady Signal Indications
E. A steady YELLOW ARROW signal indication:

1. Shall not be displayed to terminate a flashing arrow signal indication on an approach from which drivers are turning left permissively or making a U-turn to the left permissively unless one of the following conditions exists:

A. A steady CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indication is also simultaneously being displayed to the opposing approach;

B. An engineering study has determined that, because of unique intersection conditions, the condition described in Item (a) cannot reasonably be implemented without causing significant operational or safety problems and that the volume of impacted left-turning or U-turning traffic is relatively low, and those left-turning or U-turning drivers are advised that a steady CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indication is not simultaneously being displayed to the opposing traffic if this operation occurs continuously by the installation near the left-most signal head of a W25-1 sign (see Section 2C.48) with the legend ONCOMING TRAFFIC HAS EXTENDED GREEN; or

C. Drivers are advised of the operation if it occurs only occasionally, such as during a preemption sequence, by the installation near the left-most signal head of a W25-2 sign (see Section 2C.48) with the legend ONCOMING TRAFFIC MAY HAVE EXTENDED GREEN.

[jakeroot]

^^^^^^
What in the fuck is he talking about? Was he drunk when he wrote that reply? Their setup is clearly prohibited by that section you quoted. It is a classic yellow trap scenario. Well, maybe not "classic" since he seems to think that yellow trap can only occur with "yield on green" signals, but the operation they've created is still very much a yellow trap.

If traffic is waiting at a permissive left turn, and the red arrow comes up, they will assume that oncoming traffic also has a red, and will finish their turn. That is a very dangerous setup that they have created, and the fact that they don't recognize it alarms me greatly, considering that they (I hope) are PEs.

"Rest in walk" also does not need activating at all times of day. Several jurisdictions around me use "rest in walk" during times of high pedestrian activity, with push-button activation being reserved for quieter hours (late at night, early morning).

[mrsman]

^^^^^^
What in the fuck is he talking about? Was he drunk when he wrote that reply? Their setup is clearly prohibited by that section you quoted. It is a classic yellow trap scenario. Well, maybe not "classic" since he seems to think that yellow trap can only occur with "yield on green" signals, but the operation they've created is still very much a yellow trap.

If traffic is waiting at a permissive left turn, and the red arrow comes up, they will assume that oncoming traffic also has a red, and will finish their turn. That is a very dangerous setup that they have created, and the fact that they don't recognize it alarms me greatly, considering that they (I hope) are PEs.

"Rest in walk" also does not need activating at all times of day. Several jurisdictions around me use "rest in walk" during times of high pedestrian activity, with push-button activation being reserved for quieter hours (late at night, early morning).

I believe it is also common for many to think that the FYA cures yellow-trap.  That is not the case.  Clearly this example is dangerous and it is a shame that the traffic engineer has not recognized that.

[RobbieL2415]

I may have mentioned this way earlier in the thread but I do not believe the FYA can come to CT unless the traffic control device statue is revised to permit it.

Sec. 14-299. Traffic control signals. Right turn on red. (a) For the purpose of standardization and uniformity, no installation of any traffic control signal light shall be made by any town, city or borough until the same has been approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration. Such approval shall be based on necessity for, location of and type of such signal light and shall be applied for on a form supplied by the Office of the State Traffic Administration and shall be submitted to said office by the traffic authority having jurisdiction. Approval of any such signal light may be revoked by the Office of the State Traffic Administration at any time if said office deems such revocation to be in the interest of public safety, and thereupon such signal lights shall be removed by the traffic authority having jurisdiction.

(b) When traffic at an intersection is alternately directed to proceed and to stop by the use of signals exhibiting colored lights or lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian control signals carrying word legends, said lights shall apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians and shall indicate the following:

(1) Circular green alone: Vehicular traffic facing a green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign or marking at such place prohibits either such turn or straight through movement, except that such traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and vehicles lawfully within a crosswalk or the intersection at the time such signal was exhibited; pedestrians facing the green signal, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, may proceed across the highway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.

(2) Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety; pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, are thereby advised that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and no pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway.

(3) Red alone: Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection and remain standing until the next indication is shown; provided, on or after July 1, 1979, vehicular traffic traveling in the travel lane nearest the right hand curb or other defined edge of the roadway, unless a sign approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration has been erected in the appropriate place prohibiting this movement, may cautiously enter the intersection to make a right turn onto a two-way street or onto another one-way street on which all the traffic is moving to such vehicle's right after such vehicle has stopped as required in this subdivision and yielded the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. Pedestrians facing a steady red signal alone, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, shall not enter the roadway.

(4) Green arrow: Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time, but such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within a crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully within the intersection.

(5) Whenever special pedestrian-control signals exhibiting the words "Walk"  or "Don't Walk"  are in place such signals shall indicate as follows: "Walk" : Pedestrians facing such signals may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal and shall be given the right-of-way by the drivers of all vehicles; "Don't Walk" : No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed his crossing on the walk signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island while the "Don't Walk"  signal is showing.

(c) When an illuminated flashing red or yellow signal is used in a traffic sign or signal, it shall require obedience by vehicular traffic as follows:

(1) Flashing red: When a red lens is illuminated by rapid intermittent flashes, drivers of vehicles shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk at an intersection, or at a limit line when marked or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and the right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign.

(2) When a yellow lens is illuminated with rapid intermittent flashes, drivers of vehicles facing such signal may proceed through the intersection or past such signal only with caution.

(d) Lenses of the following colors only shall be used and shall be arranged vertically in the signal face or, when necessary, horizontally, and shall conform to the following positions: When arranged vertically, red shall be located at the top, yellow shall be located directly below red and the remaining indications below the yellow in the following order: Flashing yellow, circular green, vertical arrow, left-turn arrow and right-turn arrow, as needed; when arranged horizontally, red shall be located at the left, yellow shall be located directly to the right of red and the remaining indications to the right of yellow in the following order: Flashing yellow, left-turn arrow, circular green, vertical arrow and right-turn arrow, as needed.

(e) When lane-direction-control signals are placed over the individual lanes of a street or highway, vehicular traffic may travel in any lane over which a green arrow signal is shown, but shall not enter or travel in any lane over which a red X signal is shown.

(f) If a traffic control signal, approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration, is erected and maintained at a place other than an intersection, the provisions of this section shall be applicable except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Any stop required shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made, but in the absence of any sign or marking the stop shall be made at the signal.

[SignBridge]

Jakeroot and mrsman, that situation might be dangerous but it may not meet the specific technical definition of a yellow trap. If you want to pursue the question, you might contact the Federal Highway Administration for their opinion.

[jakeroot]

Jakeroot and mrsman, that situation might be dangerous but it may not meet the specific technical definition of a yellow trap. If you want to pursue the question, you might contact the Federal Highway Administration for their opinion.

A steady yellow arrow may not be displayed unless accompanied by either an oncoming circular yellow, or an "EXTENDED GREEN" sign. The oncoming traffic has a green display throughout the steady yellow arrow and steady red arrow phase for the left turn. Ergo, yellow trap. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

On the other hand, if the PE in charge is some crotchety old man, it may not meet his definition because he falsely assumes yellow trap is only possible with the older "yield on green" signals.

[roadfro]

^^^^^^
What in the fuck is he talking about? Was he drunk when he wrote that reply? Their setup is clearly prohibited by that section you quoted. It is a classic yellow trap scenario. Well, maybe not "classic" since he seems to think that yellow trap can only occur with "yield on green" signals, but the operation they've created is still very much a yellow trap.

If traffic is waiting at a permissive left turn, and the red arrow comes up, they will assume that oncoming traffic also has a red, and will finish their turn. That is a very dangerous setup that they have created, and the fact that they don't recognize it alarms me greatly, considering that they (I hope) are PEs.

"Rest in walk" also does not need activating at all times of day. Several jurisdictions around me use "rest in walk" during times of high pedestrian activity, with push-button activation being reserved for quieter hours (late at night, early morning).

I agree, Jake. The reply also says that as the FYA cycles off, turning traffic should stop at the stop bar. Well yeah, but what about the vehicle that legally pulled into the intersection waiting for a gap in left turn traffic...? If that isn't a yellow trap, I don't know what is...

If they're not going to change the controller programming, they at least need to put up the "oncoming traffic may have extended green" sign.

[fwydriver405]

^^^^^^
What in the fuck is he talking about? Was he drunk when he wrote that reply? Their setup is clearly prohibited by that section you quoted. It is a classic yellow trap scenario. Well, maybe not "classic" since he seems to think that yellow trap can only occur with "yield on green" signals, but the operation they've created is still very much a yellow trap.

If traffic is waiting at a permissive left turn, and the red arrow comes up, they will assume that oncoming traffic also has a red, and will finish their turn. That is a very dangerous setup that they have created, and the fact that they don't recognize it alarms me greatly, considering that they (I hope) are PEs.

"Rest in walk" also does not need activating at all times of day. Several jurisdictions around me use "rest in walk" during times of high pedestrian activity, with push-button activation being reserved for quieter hours (late at night, early morning).

I agree, Jake. The reply also says that as the FYA cycles off, turning traffic should stop at the stop bar. Well yeah, but what about the vehicle that legally pulled into the intersection waiting for a gap in left turn traffic...? If that isn't a yellow trap, I don't know what is...

If they're not going to change the controller programming, they at least need to put up the "oncoming traffic may have extended green" sign.

I thought that Maine has a permissive yellow law... meaning that it is legal to enter the intersection on green and yellow AND it is legal to enter the intersection on flashing yellow or circular green for a permissive left turn so at least the leg the driver is into isn't blocked, and that the driver who entered legally on such indications can complete their turn when it is safe to do so once the permissive phase is ending. This sentence by the signal tech seems to convey that drivers do not (or cannot) wait in the intersection to turn left permissively??

Through the FYA indication termination sequence the permissive left turn driver is warned that the permissive phase is ending and that he should stop at the stop bar. As the adjacent thru indications do not terminate then the driver has no reason to assume the opposing thru indications are terminating.

§2057. Traffic-control devices
1. Lighted devices.  A traffic-control device may emit only the colors green, red and yellow, except for a pedestrian signal carrying a legend. The lights have the following meanings.
B. A yellow light:
(1) If steady and circular or an arrow, means the operator must take warning that a green light is being terminated or a red light will be exhibited immediately.

[mrsman]

I may have mentioned this way earlier in the thread but I do not believe the FYA can come to CT unless the traffic control device statue is revised to permit it.

Sec. 14-299. Traffic control signals. Right turn on red. (a) For the purpose of standardization and uniformity, no installation of any traffic control signal light shall be made by any town, city or borough until the same has been approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration. Such approval shall be based on necessity for, location of and type of such signal light and shall be applied for on a form supplied by the Office of the State Traffic Administration and shall be submitted to said office by the traffic authority having jurisdiction. Approval of any such signal light may be revoked by the Office of the State Traffic Administration at any time if said office deems such revocation to be in the interest of public safety, and thereupon such signal lights shall be removed by the traffic authority having jurisdiction.

(b) When traffic at an intersection is alternately directed to proceed and to stop by the use of signals exhibiting colored lights or lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian control signals carrying word legends, said lights shall apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians and shall indicate the following:

(1) Circular green alone: Vehicular traffic facing a green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign or marking at such place prohibits either such turn or straight through movement, except that such traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and vehicles lawfully within a crosswalk or the intersection at the time such signal was exhibited; pedestrians facing the green signal, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, may proceed across the highway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.

(2) Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety; pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, are thereby advised that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and no pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway.

(3) Red alone: Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection and remain standing until the next indication is shown; provided, on or after July 1, 1979, vehicular traffic traveling in the travel lane nearest the right hand curb or other defined edge of the roadway, unless a sign approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration has been erected in the appropriate place prohibiting this movement, may cautiously enter the intersection to make a right turn onto a two-way street or onto another one-way street on which all the traffic is moving to such vehicle's right after such vehicle has stopped as required in this subdivision and yielded the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. Pedestrians facing a steady red signal alone, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, shall not enter the roadway.

(4) Green arrow: Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time, but such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within a crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully within the intersection.

(5) Whenever special pedestrian-control signals exhibiting the words "Walk"  or "Don't Walk"  are in place such signals shall indicate as follows: "Walk" : Pedestrians facing such signals may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal and shall be given the right-of-way by the drivers of all vehicles; "Don't Walk" : No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed his crossing on the walk signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island while the "Don't Walk"  signal is showing.

(c) When an illuminated flashing red or yellow signal is used in a traffic sign or signal, it shall require obedience by vehicular traffic as follows:

(1) Flashing red: When a red lens is illuminated by rapid intermittent flashes, drivers of vehicles shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk at an intersection, or at a limit line when marked or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and the right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign.

(2) When a yellow lens is illuminated with rapid intermittent flashes, drivers of vehicles facing such signal may proceed through the intersection or past such signal only with caution.

(d) Lenses of the following colors only shall be used and shall be arranged vertically in the signal face or, when necessary, horizontally, and shall conform to the following positions: When arranged vertically, red shall be located at the top, yellow shall be located directly below red and the remaining indications below the yellow in the following order: Flashing yellow, circular green, vertical arrow, left-turn arrow and right-turn arrow, as needed; when arranged horizontally, red shall be located at the left, yellow shall be located directly to the right of red and the remaining indications to the right of yellow in the following order: Flashing yellow, left-turn arrow, circular green, vertical arrow and right-turn arrow, as needed.

(e) When lane-direction-control signals are placed over the individual lanes of a street or highway, vehicular traffic may travel in any lane over which a green arrow signal is shown, but shall not enter or travel in any lane over which a red X signal is shown.

(f) If a traffic control signal, approved by the Office of the State Traffic Administration, is erected and maintained at a place other than an intersection, the provisions of this section shall be applicable except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Any stop required shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made, but in the absence of any sign or marking the stop shall be made at the signal.

I believe MD and DE may have similar rules.  It is definitely the case that there is a feeling that flashing yellow may be interpreted as giving right of way, rather than yielding right of way for others.  This is why instead of FYA, we have flashing red arrows.  Annoyingly, they require a full stop, but otherwise have the same rules as FYAs.

[MASTERNC]

I believe MD and DE may have similar rules.  It is definitely the case that there is a feeling that flashing yellow may be interpreted as giving right of way, rather than yielding right of way for others.  This is why instead of FYA, we have flashing red arrows.  Annoyingly, they require a full stop, but otherwise have the same rules as FYAs.

The only challenge is when said flashing red arrow is at an intersection with a red light camera.  Technically, they could program the camera to flash if you don't stop completely behind the white line before moving forward to turn.  However, in the case I have encountered this, DelDOT seems to let this slide.

[Roadsguy]

This FYA signal in Myerstown, PA has no green arrow. It only exists to allow for Dallas phasing here, as the other direction has a standard four-section FYA. How common is this type of three-section FYA signal nationwide? I thought this was a unique setup that PennDOT decided to use here until I found another by accident in Street View.

[SignBridge]

NYSDOT has installed some like that on side streets and shopping center exits on Long Island.

[jakeroot]

I can't recall seeing anything similar to that PA signal around here in WA. Most cities install protected/permissive flashing yellow arrow displays, and then choose how to operate them (fully protected, protected/permissive, or fully-permissive).

Couple examples: this FYA signal that has a lagging green that almost never activates; or, this other FYA signal that is solid red during huge portions of the day. Both are capable of identical operations, but are operated differently.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

This FYA signal in Myerstown, PA has no green arrow. It only exists to allow for Dallas phasing here, as the other direction has a standard four-section FYA. How common is this type of three-section FYA signal nationwide? I thought this was a unique setup that PennDOT decided to use here until I found another by accident in Street View.

NYC has plenty of 3 arrow FYAs, mostly for leading pedestrian intervals.

Also that signal doesnt look like it is used for Dallas phasing based on streetview. Looks like it is used in place of just a green ball for permissive turns.

[Eth]

This FYA signal in Myerstown, PA has no green arrow. It only exists to allow for Dallas phasing here, as the other direction has a standard four-section FYA. How common is this type of three-section FYA signal nationwide? I thought this was a unique setup that PennDOT decided to use here until I found another by accident in Street View.

I've seen several of them scattered around the Atlanta area, typically at intersections with fairly low left-turn volume.

[Amtrakprod]

I few are in Massachusetts: https://goo.gl/maps/kctqKf7yA6o1eqPu5


iPhone

[spooky]

I few are in Massachusetts: https://goo.gl/maps/kctqKf7yA6o1eqPu5


iPhone

another MA example: https://goo.gl/maps/bwda3S37HCa2Lkxd6

[fwydriver405]

I few are in Massachusetts: https://goo.gl/maps/kctqKf7yA6o1eqPu5


iPhone

another MA example: https://goo.gl/maps/bwda3S37HCa2Lkxd6

There are three in New Hampshire that I am aware of in Concord, Dover, and in Portsmouth (At Woodbury and Granite - Street View isn't up to date). Maine has one left turn FYA in Skowhegan (although an illegal use), and some 3-section right turn FYA's are planned in South Portland (FYA will be located at the right turn island) and in Sanford as well...

[jakeroot]

I few are in Massachusetts: https://goo.gl/maps/kctqKf7yA6o1eqPu5

another MA example: https://goo.gl/maps/bwda3S37HCa2Lkxd6

OT: Signal placement (overhead near, far corner) reminds me of this intersection near Bothell, WA: https://goo.gl/maps/6rJ8izjcqWAPRDp58

[Roadsguy]

This FYA signal in Myerstown, PA has no green arrow. It only exists to allow for Dallas phasing here, as the other direction has a standard four-section FYA. How common is this type of three-section FYA signal nationwide? I thought this was a unique setup that PennDOT decided to use here until I found another by accident in Street View.

NYC has plenty of 3 arrow FYAs, mostly for leading pedestrian intervals.

Also that signal doesnt look like it is used for Dallas phasing based on streetview. Looks like it is used in place of just a green ball for permissive turns.

It's definitely used for Dallas phasing. I've seen it in action on this specific signal, and the other direction has a standard four-section FYA. PennDOT seems to use Dallas phasing at every FYA intersection where one direction has a protected left and the straight through green. I've never seen them use a signal like Amtrakprod's example that serve literally no extra purpose compared to just having standard signals, and whenever PennDOT wants to allow for adding an FYA signal for protected left turns later when traffic volumes increase, they just use a longer mast arm and with an empty spot where it'd be.

[cjw2001]

Not uncommon for low volume left turns

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0003317,-86.0580869,3a,75y,80.63h,87.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK43RUIVje9moDEWrOSK3wA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9557759,-86.0602939,3a,75y,76.5h,85.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si6LjB_WTW_ogHWXSlajxDQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Roadsguy]

Not uncommon for low volume left turns

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0003317,-86.0580869,3a,75y,80.63h,87.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK43RUIVje9moDEWrOSK3wA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9557759,-86.0602939,3a,75y,76.5h,85.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si6LjB_WTW_ogHWXSlajxDQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'm surprised at how many of those three-section greenless FYA signals have been linked that don't seem to have a purpose for being there, since there's no standard FYA signal in the other direction. The one in Myerstown (and the one in your second link, cjw2001) is there for Dallas phasing, but having such signals on both directions of the road (like your first link) doesn't seem to add anything at all other than having an FYA for the sake of an FYA. At no point would permissive left turns be allowed while through traffic is stopped.

[jakeroot]

The one in Myerstown (and the one in your second link, cjw2001) is there for Dallas phasing, but having such signals on both directions of the road (like your first link) doesn't seem to add anything at all other than having an FYA for the sake of an FYA. At no point would permissive left turns be allowed while through traffic is stopped.

The Noblesville area may have a pedestrian-override for the FYA, where it would stay red if the crosswalk activates at the beginning of the through phase. This is fairly common in the Seattle area (though not in Seattle itself).

Other than that, yeah, they don't add much.

[roadfro]

The one in Myerstown (and the one in your second link, cjw2001) is there for Dallas phasing, but having such signals on both directions of the road (like your first link) doesn't seem to add anything at all other than having an FYA for the sake of an FYA. At no point would permissive left turns be allowed while through traffic is stopped.

The Noblesville area may have a pedestrian-override for the FYA, where it would stay red if the crosswalk activates at the beginning of the through phase. This is fairly common in the Seattle area (though not in Seattle itself).

Other than that, yeah, they don't add much.

If the agency wants a signal for each lane, then the FYA without green would have to be used for the left turn movement per 2009 MUTCD. Even if signal-per-lane isn't agency policy, it doesn't hurt anything to use FYA for this application–it helps reinforce the "yield" condition for permitted lefts.