Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[Amtrakprod]

MaineDOT is finally starting to use the FYA and phasing out the 5-section doghouses in (some of) their new installs... AFAIK the signal improvement projects in Waterville and in Old Town are even including 3-section permissive FYA's for those approaches that don't require a permissive phase!

Now if only they used right-turn FYA's in Old Town for the approches that have right turn lanes, an overlap, and an LPI as seen in the plans below:

Old Town - Stillwater Ave at Bennoch Rd and College Ave, near the University of Maine

Woohoo Maine! I can't wait for CT to install a FYA.


iPhone

[fwydriver405]

Where is this intersection?

[Amtrakprod]

Where is this intersection?

It is one in MA: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Main+Rd,+Gill,+MA+01354/@42.612946,-72.5495167,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e1256b9c270211:0x9ca958292bd495b3!8m2!3d42.612945!4d-72.5489695

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6130182,-72.54911,3a,33.8y,105.11h,91.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skxY249FdFSHRFmHpAvcj1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[bwana39]

Texas uses them as well as the solid arrow with the Left Turn Yield signs.
Here is an example from Stateline Avenue in Texarkana. https://www.flickr.com/photos/us_71/10945067225/
I didn't take the picture,but I am familiar with the intersection. These were all over Texas at one point, but now are becoming fewer. The plain white is not the only ones. There were also some with red borders that flashed.

[traffic light guy]

The newest FYA in my area is mounted at Paper Mill Road and Cheltenham Avenue in Flourtown, PA:


12-inch Econolite Buttonback Flashing Yellow Arrow traffic signal by thesignalman, on Flickr

[Amtrakprod]

The newest FYA in my area is mounted at Paper Mill Road and Cheltenham Avenue in Flourtown, PA:


12-inch Econolite Buttonback Flashing Yellow Arrow traffic signal by thesignalman, on Flickr

PennDOT signals becoming better and better! When I first saw the image I thought and hoped that was a signal from NJ. What I really want is a FYA in CT. The last state that needs one.


iPhone

[jeffandnicole]

PennDOT signals becoming better and better! When I first saw the image I thought and hoped that was a signal from NJ. What I really want is a FYA in CT. The last state that needs one.

The gizmo to the right of the sign is a dead giveaway this is a PA signal.

Newer PA signals generally aren't bad. Their older signals though are horrid, and are used long past what most states consider a normal lifespan.

[Amtrakprod]

MA old signals are awful too, but our new ones in my opinion are of the best in the country. Great placement, FYAs, creative phasing.


iPhone

[STLmapboy]

MA old signals are awful too, but our new ones in my opinion are of the best in the country. Great placement, FYAs, creative phasing.


iPhone

To be the best, I feel like that "Old South Road" sign could be on the mast arm itself rather than the pole. Also, there must be better places to put the "left lane must turn left" sign than by the rightmost lane.

[Amtrakprod]

MA old signals are awful too, but our new ones in my opinion are of the best in the country. Great placement, FYAs, creative phasing.


iPhone

To be the best, I feel like that "Old South Road" sign could be on the mast arm itself rather than the pole. Also, there must be better places to put the "left lane must turn left" sign than by the rightmost lane.

I agree about the street sign.

There is another "left lane must turn left" sign prior to the lane change: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5682724,-71.7963736,3a,38.7y,321.75h,85.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spbd8U7nod_90UiUhy7QUaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also note the opposing 3 section FYA!

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5690703,-71.7971628,3a,30.9y,153.13h,90.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXGvIu8Uy7LzZ4_9i431hFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[mrsman]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

[fwydriver405]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

Emergency vehicle preemption as well. I have seen FYA's used for queue discharge on drawbridges or near freeway offramps...

[mrsman]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

Emergency vehicle preemption as well. I have seen FYA's used for queue discharge on drawbridges or near freeway offramps...

I will add on LPI (leading pedestrian interval) as a specific example of yielding to peds/bikes.  With a right turn 4 aspect FYA signal, you can release straight traffic and peds and give right turners a red (or red arrow) and hold them for a few seconds to give a ped head start.  When the LPI concludes, a FYA will be equivalent to green orb (for right turners) that they may go, so long as they yield to peds.

I guess I have also seen a q discharge FYA signal with respect to a traffic circle.  Normally, the FYA will mean yield, which is the normal condition when appraoching a circle, yield to circle traffic.  But the signal will also have a red indication to stop the flow into the circle, to prevent the circle from getting loaded.

My goal with this topic is to list the benefits of FYA because there are many out there that feel that they aren't really needed and are just an expensive way to replace a doghouse.  In reality, they are so versatile beyond just the PPLT indication.

[STLmapboy]

MA old signals are awful too, but our new ones in my opinion are of the best in the country. Great placement, FYAs, creative phasing.


iPhone

To be the best, I feel like that "Old South Road" sign could be on the mast arm itself rather than the pole. Also, there must be better places to put the "left lane must turn left" sign than by the rightmost lane.

I agree about the street sign.

There is another "left lane must turn left" sign prior to the lane change: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5682724,-71.7963736,3a,38.7y,321.75h,85.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spbd8U7nod_90UiUhy7QUaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also note the opposing 3 section FYA!

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5690703,-71.7971628,3a,30.9y,153.13h,90.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXGvIu8Uy7LzZ4_9i431hFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Following up on this...
I think this example in Whately is as good as MA gets.

[JKRhodes]

During my most recent trip to Tucson, Arizona about a week ago, I noticed the major east side intersections (Generally meaning 22nd, Broadway, Speedway at Wilmot, Kolb, Craycroft) now utilize the 4-headed FYA assembly for left turns.

They still have permissive lefts for dual left turn lanes, with a lagging protected phase. The signals seem use dynamic phasing: They stay red at the start of the through phase when it would be pointless to attempt to turn left, then transition to FYA in the middle of the phase, followed by a green arrow when opposing through traffic gets a red light.

At many of these intersections, the cross road has a flashing yellow right turn arrow, a sort of experimental 5-signal had setup that was implemented in the '90s. I've not seen this done elsewhere. So during the left green arrow phase, U-turns are permitted. The cross street is allowed to make a right on a flashing yellow arrow provided they yield to U-turns. Those signal heads remain even after the upgrades.

[jakeroot]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

One major negative (quiet major, in my opinion) that I've seen is that through signal state is lost when the right and left corner signals become left and right turn signals. That leaves through signals only over the middle of the mast arm, where they may not be visible to approaching traffic or to traffic facing bright sun, etc. The state of the through signal can be assumed by the state of the right or left turn signals, but not safely so under all circumstances.

I would like for someone to introduce a six-head signal that can be placed on mast arms and pole-mounted signals. The arrows would incorporate a flashing yellow arrow; the other three signal faces would be regular orb signals. Alternatively, mounting two separate three-head signals adjacent to each other, on either side of a pole, could get the same job done. To the best of my knowledge, it would be permitted.

Australia (good example) and New Zealand (great example) do this. They quite like protected turns but don't want the state of the through signal to be lost in doing so. Neither country places through signals on the far right of intersections where protected-only phasing is used (they drive on the left so this would be our equivalent of far left), but the far left and near left always include through signals, even when the left turn has a fully protected phase using red, amber, and green arrows. This seems very smart; frankly, if we just adopted NZ or AUS signal design and placement, I'd be a happy camper.

As a note: both Australia and NZ utilize extinguishing red arrows to denote a turn that becomes permissive; we'd simply need to adjust that to include a flashing yellow arrow (either bimodal green/amber arrow or flashing amber arrow in the center lens) to achieve exactly the same results.

[mrsman]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

One major negative (quiet major, in my opinion) that I've seen is that through signal state is lost when the right and left corner signals become left and right turn signals. That leaves through signals only over the middle of the mast arm, where they may not be visible to approaching traffic or to traffic facing bright sun, etc. The state of the through signal can be assumed by the state of the right or left turn signals, but not safely so under all circumstances.

I would like for someone to introduce a six-head signal that can be placed on mast arms and pole-mounted signals. The arrows would incorporate a flashing yellow arrow; the other three signal faces would be regular orb signals. Alternatively, mounting two separate three-head signals adjacent to each other, on either side of a pole, could get the same job done. To the best of my knowledge, it would be permitted.

Australia (good example) and New Zealand (great example) do this. They quite like protected turns but don't want the state of the through signal to be lost in doing so. Neither country places through signals on the far right of intersections where protected-only phasing is used (they drive on the left so this would be our equivalent of far left), but the far left and near left always include through signals, even when the left turn has a fully protected phase using red, amber, and green arrows. This seems very smart; frankly, if we just adopted NZ or AUS signal design and placement, I'd be a happy camper.

As a note: both Australia and NZ utilize extinguishing red arrows to denote a turn that becomes permissive; we'd simply need to adjust that to include a flashing yellow arrow (either bimodal green/amber arrow or flashing amber arrow in the center lens) to achieve exactly the same results.

The six aspect doghouse is rare, probably not standard, but does exist in the US - in some form.  Generally, a RYG placed very close to a RA-YA-GA signal as here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9846649,-77.0264621,3a,75y,168.62h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqLzw_jxoi4mIS5lEWTqNTw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Quite common in DC as they tend to be stingy on mast arms, so there are lots of clusters on ground mounted or median mounted signals. Not a fan of the left arrow on the right sidemount signal.  It really isn't necessary as there are already two other left signal heads present.

Many years ago there was an actual custom six aspect doghouse in Beverly Hills, CA that got replaced with a more sturdy mast arm and a more normal configuration of signal heads.

The right side 4 aspect FYA signal for right turns is still not so common and is generally only utilized in specific situations.  The protected right turn (corresponding to a side street protected left) is generally still shown with a 5 aspect signal that combines straight and right functions, either tower or doghouse. 

Left sidemounts tend to replicate the left turn signal, if there is one.

[1995hoo]

I don't think I've ever seen a flashing yellow arrow for a right turn.

[fwydriver405]

I don't think I've ever seen a flashing yellow arrow for a right turn.

3-section FYA (South Portland ME): (Western Ave and Westbrook St)

4-section FYA (Piscataway NJ): CR 529 / Ethel Road

[US 89]

I don't think I've ever seen a flashing yellow arrow for a right turn.

Cannot recall where it is off the top of my head, but I know I've seen at least one in the Atlanta area.

[mrsman]

I don't think I've ever seen a flashing yellow arrow for a right turn.

We had a topic on them a while ago.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4852.0

Right FYA denotes a yield condition.  Two main applications.

1) Yield to peds on your right.  This is already denoted normally by green orb signal.  But what if you want to implement a leading pedestrian interval (LPI), allowing straight traffic to go on green, but to hold back right turners for a few seconds with a red arrow?  When the LPI is over, a FYA can be lit to denote the yield to peds condition, but allowing the right.

NYC uses them.  The examples shown are one-way to one-way lefts, which are funtionally equivalent to right turns.

https://www.facebook.com/NYCDOT/posts/turning-signal-safety-treatments-like-split-phases-and-split-lpis-or-left-turn-o/10156343974267887/

Here's an example on the right side in Los Angeles:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533061,-118.2409172,3a,75y,56.38h,90.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgAQI2h1qihmS6SWQhOqokA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


2) Yield to cross traffic on your left and/or peds in front of you.  Normally this is RTOR.  Most of the time, you would need a full stop.  However, if the right turn is channelized, often the right turn will see a yield sign.  In a few cases, this yield sign is replaced with a traffic signal.  The flashing yellow arrow is the dominant state, to denote the normal yield.  However, there is also room for red arrow to stop traffic when peds are crossing and a green arrow when the turn is protected (usually when parallel traffic has the green light or during the corresponding protected left turn).

A great example of that is in Utah:

https://blog.udot.utah.gov/2015/03/first-yellow-flashing-right-turn-arrow-arrives-in-utah/

Before:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4312726,-111.889138,3a,75y,33.66h,85.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqx9y7lzsD7YkWYG17adwCQ!2e0!5s20090301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

After:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4312835,-111.8891152,3a,75y,33.66h,85.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9iL5ZWhKXBa_w0Rp1fhBzw!2e0!5s20160401T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[1995hoo]

Yeah, just in case it wasn't clear, I wasn't doubting that flashing yellow right-turn arrows exist; I was simply saying that I don't believe I've ever encountered one.

[jakeroot]

Both left and right FYAs are so versatile, so I'm glad they are being expanded.

Major uses:

PPLT lead/lag that avoid yellow trap
Allowing permissive turns when opposing traffic had green and green arrow
railroad preemption
TOD turn restrictions (left on arrow only during rush only)
turn yielding to peds and/or bikes
Slip lane control connected to a main signal


Any others that I have missed?

One major negative (quiet major, in my opinion) that I've seen is that through signal state is lost when the right and left corner signals become left and right turn signals. That leaves through signals only over the middle of the mast arm, where they may not be visible to approaching traffic or to traffic facing bright sun, etc. The state of the through signal can be assumed by the state of the right or left turn signals, but not safely so under all circumstances.

I would like for someone to introduce a six-head signal that can be placed on mast arms and pole-mounted signals. The arrows would incorporate a flashing yellow arrow; the other three signal faces would be regular orb signals. Alternatively, mounting two separate three-head signals adjacent to each other, on either side of a pole, could get the same job done. To the best of my knowledge, it would be permitted.

Australia (good example) and New Zealand (great example) do this. They quite like protected turns but don't want the state of the through signal to be lost in doing so. Neither country places through signals on the far right of intersections where protected-only phasing is used (they drive on the left so this would be our equivalent of far left), but the far left and near left always include through signals, even when the left turn has a fully protected phase using red, amber, and green arrows. This seems very smart; frankly, if we just adopted NZ or AUS signal design and placement, I'd be a happy camper.

As a note: both Australia and NZ utilize extinguishing red arrows to denote a turn that becomes permissive; we'd simply need to adjust that to include a flashing yellow arrow (either bimodal green/amber arrow or flashing amber arrow in the center lens) to achieve exactly the same results.

The six aspect doghouse is rare, probably not standard, but does exist in the US - in some form.  Generally, a RYG placed very close to a RA-YA-GA signal as here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9846649,-77.0264621,3a,75y,168.62h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqLzw_jxoi4mIS5lEWTqNTw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Quite common in DC as they tend to be stingy on mast arms, so there are lots of clusters on ground mounted or median mounted signals. Not a fan of the left arrow on the right sidemount signal.  It really isn't necessary as there are already two other left signal heads present.

Many years ago there was an actual custom six aspect doghouse in Beverly Hills, CA that got replaced with a more sturdy mast arm and a more normal configuration of signal heads.

The right side 4 aspect FYA signal for right turns is still not so common and is generally only utilized in specific situations.  The protected right turn (corresponding to a side street protected left) is generally still shown with a 5 aspect signal that combines straight and right functions, either tower or doghouse. 

Left sidemounts tend to replicate the left turn signal, if there is one.

There is another six-face signal in Beverly Hills that still exists. Northbound Bedford where it meets Wilshire. (view from backside)

I totally forgot about the numerous DC examples that I've seen. I will agree that, as long as there are two all-arrow signals, it's really not necessary to place another cluster on the right corner (for a left turn signal). However, for situations where there are no overhead signals at all, not even those stubby mast arms DC uses, it's probably a good idea. Good example eastbound along Constitution at 17th, NW. At this intersection, it's possible to see the state of the left and through signals on both corners, which I think is ideal in circumstances where there are cars around you that may block your view of the 'other' signal. The opposing approach has only a single left turn signal on the far left, which I do find as helpful if there are too many cars to block my view of that far corner signal; there may be too many cars to block my view of another signal on the far right, but I'd rather take my chances with two identical signals than one.

I don't expect dedicated turn signals to become less common in the future, hence my worry with regards to the loss of through signals. Here in WA, the flashing yellow right arrow has taken off, and has become fairly common in Bellevue, Federal Way (T-intersections only), Auburn, and Seattle. The middle two are heavy users of supplemental through signals on the far right, but their intersections with right-facing FYA signals do not have them (although Federal Way's examples are approaching a T-intersection where through signals are not necessary).

At your Los Angeles example two posts above (Los Angeles at Temple), we can see the first intersection in California without any supplemental through signal. California has been widely regarded as one of the best states for signal placement. Yet here, the through signals have no better placement than standard FHWA requirements (overhead only).

Having a far corner sidemount (on the other side of the intersection, on the other side of opposing traffic) as anything other than just a dedicated turn signal is also standard in Australia and New Zealand (at least for intersections with any sort of protected left turn phase). But a near-side overhead signal, or perhaps even a signal on the far left edge of a mast arm, containing a cluster FYA signal and through signal, would help improve visibility of the through signal beyond what we can see at that Los Angeles example.

[SignBridge]

You're right Jakeroot. That is very unusual for California not to have a thru signal on the far right corner. So maybe some modification is called for. Nevertheless I still agree with those who regard California as among the best states for signal configuration.

[mrsman]

You make some good points, but I don't see a solution.  On the sidemount we already have 6 aspects (3 for the right turn and 3 for the bikes), do we have room for a 9 aspect signal head?  Would that be intelligible to drivers to keep track of their signal as well?

At least the right turn arrows are not a requirement for the protected bike lane.  In parts of town that are a little more suburban (and less dense w/ respecct to pedestrians), no special right turn or bike indications are necessary.  Unfortunately, to make this work the intersections are not protected for bikes.

Here is Reseda Blvd in Northridge, technically part of LA city:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2371891,-118.5360242,3a,75y,358.49h,88.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZf0yqhGnVb2BBZUdRP_Xgg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

But it seems like the other protected bike lanes in Downtown will have similar signals to those on L.A. street.  The only thing is that Spring and Main are one-way and the protected bike lanes on the one-way part are on the left, so the right sidemount signal head should still be normal at most of the intersections.

Yet the implementation of Spring Street's lane has an only in L.A. feature.  A right side bike lane will shift to the left side with lots of signal heads at the corner of 3rd.  Yes, a diagonal bike crossing in the middle of Downtown.  Only in L.A.  [some pics at the bottom of the article]

https://la.streetsblog.org/2018/10/05/eyes-on-the-street-spring-street-bike-lane-upgraded-to-parking-protected/

There are also plans for protected bike lanes on the two-way 7th street.  These have been tentatively implemented, but they have not imposed bike signals yet.