Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[US 89]

The street blades are barely readable with the quality of that video, but after searching for a couple of minutes in the SLC area (the mountains are a give away), it's State St and 7720 South.

Nice find, thank you.

Great setup. Seems to work well. I think the rear-ending is unrelated to the FYAs.

The rear-ending is just distracted Utah drivers at their finest.

I had no idea that was there...and I've clinched every mile of state highway in the Wasatch Front. Even as UDOT has pretty much completely moved to the FYA for left turns on new installs, they still tend to use doghouses (sometimes even a double doghouse) for dual rights.

[Amtrakprod]

One of the only FYA signals in MA with a red delay. Should be more, works awesome here!

https://youtu.be/x7VgYhAi8ro


iPhone

[interstatefan990]

It's really simple. If you don't see a green arrow for said left turn then you must yield to oncoming traffic, whether it's a doghouse, an FYA, or just a regular 3-section with all orbs (no arrow at all). The same rules apply on both traditional left turn lanes and the ones split from the thru lanes via paint or islands.

While it is true that one reason why the FYA was created to "improve driver understanding" of a permissive left turn, because when green balls were over the left turn lane, some drivers thought it meant a protected turn,

whatever the left turn lane striping situation is, the same rules apply as far as oncoming traffic is concerned in conjunction with the signal(s), no matter what.

Sorry, but left-turn lane or not, if you don't know that left turning vehicles yield to oncoming traffic on a circular green with no accompanying green arrow, you should not be behind the wheel. FYAs can be helpful and even necessary for some phasings, but by no means should they be needed to remind drivers of their basic responsibility to follow one of the most fundamental right-of-way rules. Should we just start putting FYA beacons at unsignalized left turns?

[kphoger]

It's really simple. If you don't see a green arrow for said left turn then you must yield to oncoming traffic, whether it's a doghouse, an FYA, or just a regular 3-section with all orbs (no arrow at all). The same rules apply on both traditional left turn lanes and the ones split from the thru lanes via paint or islands.

While it is true that one reason why the FYA was created to "improve driver understanding" of a permissive left turn, because when green balls were over the left turn lane, some drivers thought it meant a protected turn,

whatever the left turn lane striping situation is, the same rules apply as far as oncoming traffic is concerned in conjunction with the signal(s), no matter what.

Sorry, but left-turn lane or not, if you don't know that left turning vehicles yield to oncoming traffic on a circular green with no accompanying green arrow, you should not be behind the wheel. FYAs can be helpful and even necessary for some phasings, but by no means should they be needed to remind drivers of their basic responsibility to follow one of the most fundamental right-of-way rules. Should we just start putting FYA beacons at unsignalized left turns?

You mean, except when you don't have to yield...?   

This signal in Florida, US-27 @ Johnson St in Pembroke Pines, has left turn signals that use RYG orbs.

[interstatefan990]

You mean, except when you don't have to yield...?   

MUTCD Section 4D.19, Signal Indications for Protected Only Mode Left-Turn Movements, Paragraph 3:

If a separate left-turn signal face is provided for a protected only mode left turn, it shall meet the following requirements (see Figure 4D-10):
A. It shall be capable of displaying, the following signal indications: steady left-turn RED ARROW, steady left-turn YELLOW ARROW, and left-turn GREEN ARROW. Only one of the three indications shall be displayed at any given time. A signal instruction sign shall not be required with this set of signal indications. If used, it shall be a LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY (R10-5) sign (see Figure 2B-27).
B. During the protected left-turn movement, a left-turn GREEN ARROW signal indication shall be displayed.
C. A steady left-turn YELLOW ARROW signal indication shall be displayed following the left-turn GREEN ARROW signal indication.

That signal in Florida seems like a rare exception, but nonetheless it is a blatant violation of the MUTCD. It cannot display any of the required red, yellow, or green arrows. Pretty concerning when you remember that Florida doesn't have a state supplement.  I guess the Left Turn Signal sign alleviates it partially but it doesn't excuse the signal's noncompliance. If it was on my commute to work, I'd contact the transportation department about it.

[jakeroot]

I thought you guys might find this interesting.

I am working on my MS at school which involves modelling crash predictions for intersections with flashing yellow arrows (those that don't have them), and I was working on writing an introduction which would include a history.

Through the University of Washington, I have extensive newspaper archives available to me. So I did a quick search for "flashing yellow arrow" (in quotes) and set the date to 2000-2009, and set it to sort by oldest first.

The oldest newspaper articles refer to "flashing yellow arrows" in reference to those large matrix displays that show arrows pointing left or right. But if you keep searching, you do eventually get to this article from April 18, 2002:

Summary: The experimental fourth light governing left turns at three sites will replace clusters of five lights now being used

Red means stop. Green means go. And that flashing yellow arrow pointing to the left?

It means stop and wait for oncoming traffic and pedestrians to cross before making a left turn into a side street from a left-turn lane.

The flashing yellow pointer, part of a three-year nationwide experiment to see whether drivers will understand and accept it, is about to appear at three southwest Beaverton intersections.

Sometime next week, ]a city crew will add the flashing arrows to signals at Allen Boulevard and Wilson Avenue, Allen and Menlo Drive, and 125th Avenue and Longhorn Lane. The latter intersection provides northbound traffic with a left turn into Southridge High School grounds.

The new signals will replace "dog house" groupings of five lights: a red light above side-by-side yellow and green disks and arrows, said Randy Wooley, city traffic engineer. The combinations are used at some intersections to indicate when drivers can and can't make left turns.

In the experimental cycle, a steady green arrow will indicate, as it does now, when motorists can turn left while oncoming traffic and pedestrians are required to stop. Then the signal will change to the flashing yellow, indicating left turns are allowed after oncoming traffic and pedestrians pass. The meaning of a steady red arrow remains the same: no left turns.

Wooley said that a Portland consulting firm, Kittelson & Associates, asked him earlier this year whether the city would take part in the national experiment, conducted for the Federal Highway Administration by the University of Massachusetts.

After checking with the city's Traffic Commission, Wooley agreed to participate.

If the motoring public accepts the signals and if accident rates nationwide don't increase, he said, the flashing yellow signals will become part of the federal agency's signal specifications used by state and local governments receiving federal highway money. That means almost everywhere.

The flashing-yellow arrow idea grew out of traffic engineers' realization that localities across the country mark left turns differently, said Kent Kacir, representing the Kittelson firm.]

For example, in Seattle a flashing yellow ball over a left-turn lane indicates "turn when safe." In Cupertino, Calif., a flashing red arrow serves that purpose, Kacir said.

Engineering groups such as the Texas Transportation Institute have sought uniformity across the country. "What floated to the top was this flashing yellow arrow," he said.

In Oregon, Wooley said, Beaverton isn't quite leading the way with the experiment. The state Department of Transportation installed flashing yellow arrows at two Woodburn intersections along Oregon 99E last June. Jackson County in Southwest Oregon also is trying out the arrangement.

The Woodburn signals appear to be working well, said Craig Black, traffic manager of the state agency's Region 2.

"I'm not aware of any accidents that have occurred at those intersections," Black said. He has received only two or three telephone calls asking about the signals since they were installed June 14, amid publicity from local news media.

A check of Woodburn Police Department accident records, however, shows two accidents related to improper left turns occurred at one of the intersections, both in October. In one of the mishaps, at 99E and Lincoln Street, an officer reported that a driver said he had sped up to make the turn when he saw the yellow arrow start flashing.

Wooley said nationwide data collected so far have not indicated higher-than-normal accident rates where the flashing yellow arrows have been installed.

No warning signs will be placed near the Beaverton intersections advising motorists of the new flashing-arrow designation, Wooley said. "The experience elsewhere is that people figure that out quickly and don't need help with it."

You can reach Richard Colby at 503-294-5961 or by e-mail at dickcolby@news.oregonian.com.

If you look along OR-99E in Woodburn, you can spot a few intersections that use FYA signals. All are three-face FYA signals, which I know were introduced later. But if you go back into historic imagery, you can find these older four-face displays.

For example, here at Hardcastle Ave, or here at Lincoln Rd, you can see the older four-face displays that clearly were quite aged. I think it's highly likely that these were the first FYA installs for left turns in the US, as a separate concept from those used historically in DC or some other city centers (San Francisco?), at least prior to a national study. It's likely those along 99E were a study of their own, not unlike the flashing red arrows in some states, or flashing yellow orbs in Seattle.

[SkyPesos]

I'm not sure what the oldest FYA install in the country is, but I know of three FYAs on MO 340 in the St Louis area, at intersections with Ross Rd, Heritage Pl and Mason Rd, that's been there since at least 2007 (oldest GSV available). Well, the physical signal has been replaced later on with a red arrow, but those intersections had an FYA for at least that long.

[jakeroot]

I'm not sure what the oldest FYA install in the country is, but I know of three FYAs on MO 340 in the St Louis area, at intersections with Ross Rd, Heritage Pl and Mason Rd, that's been there since at least 2007 (oldest GSV available). Well, the physical signal has been replaced later on with a red arrow, but those intersections had an FYA for at least that long.

Sounds about right. The FYA really started showing up heavily around 2007 to 2008. It was the stretch from 2000 to 2007/08 that left me uncertain.

What throws a wrench in the works is the existing pre-2000 FYA signals that existed around DC and San Francisco. Conceptually those are somewhat related but not necessarily identical. Finding the first true FYA for left turns that used four-section signals seems like a tall order. But those OR-99E intersections are the closest I've yet gotten.

[SkyPesos]

I'm not sure what the oldest FYA install in the country is, but I know of three FYAs on MO 340 in the St Louis area, at intersections with Ross Rd, Heritage Pl and Mason Rd, that's been there since at least 2007 (oldest GSV available). Well, the physical signal has been replaced later on with a red arrow, but those intersections had an FYA for at least that long.

Sounds about right. The FYA really started showing up heavily around 2007 to 2008. It was the stretch from 2000 to 2007/08 that left me uncertain.

What throws a wrench in the works is the existing pre-2000 FYA signals that existed around DC and San Francisco. Conceptually those are somewhat related but not necessarily identical. Finding the first true FYA for left turns that used four-section signals seems like a tall order. But those OR-99E intersections are the closest I've yet gotten.

You have a date, or at least a year, for that Oregon article you quoted earlier?

Also I found this 38 page MoDOT document from 2008 with the results for the FYA study in the 3 locations I linked above. The document confirmed that those 3 FYAs were installed in early 2007, which I was unsure about when looking through GSV. Basically a survey of what drivers would do at certain signal types, with comparisons between the FYA and the doghouse. It's somewhat interesting, considering it's the first FYA installments in the state, so not a lot of people had an idea of what it is.

[jakeroot]

I'm not sure what the oldest FYA install in the country is, but I know of three FYAs on MO 340 in the St Louis area, at intersections with Ross Rd, Heritage Pl and Mason Rd, that's been there since at least 2007 (oldest GSV available). Well, the physical signal has been replaced later on with a red arrow, but those intersections had an FYA for at least that long.

Sounds about right. The FYA really started showing up heavily around 2007 to 2008. It was the stretch from 2000 to 2007/08 that left me uncertain.

What throws a wrench in the works is the existing pre-2000 FYA signals that existed around DC and San Francisco. Conceptually those are somewhat related but not necessarily identical. Finding the first true FYA for left turns that used four-section signals seems like a tall order. But those OR-99E intersections are the closest I've yet gotten.

You have a date, or at least a year, for that Oregon article you quoted earlier?

Also I found this 38 page MoDOT document from 2008 with the results for the FYA study in the 3 locations I linked above. The document confirmed that those 3 FYAs were installed in early 2007, which I was unsure about when looking through GSV. Basically a survey of what drivers would do at certain signal types, with comparisons between the FYA and the doghouse. It's somewhat interesting, considering it's the first FYA installments in the state, so not a lot of people had an idea of what it is.

It was dated 18 April 2002. My bad for not including that in the original post. Totally forgot.

That's actually a very helpful document. I may steal that!

[roadfro]

I'm not sure what the oldest FYA install in the country is, but I know of three FYAs on MO 340 in the St Louis area, at intersections with Ross Rd, Heritage Pl and Mason Rd, that's been there since at least 2007 (oldest GSV available). Well, the physical signal has been replaced later on with a red arrow, but those intersections had an FYA for at least that long.

Sounds about right. The FYA really started showing up heavily around 2007 to 2008. It was the stretch from 2000 to 2007/08 that left me uncertain.

What throws a wrench in the works is the existing pre-2000 FYA signals that existed around DC and San Francisco. Conceptually those are somewhat related but not necessarily identical. Finding the first true FYA for left turns that used four-section signals seems like a tall order. But those OR-99E intersections are the closest I've yet gotten.

You have a date, or at least a year, for that Oregon article you quoted earlier?

Also I found this 38 page MoDOT document from 2008 with the results for the FYA study in the 3 locations I linked above. The document confirmed that those 3 FYAs were installed in early 2007, which I was unsure about when looking through GSV. Basically a survey of what drivers would do at certain signal types, with comparisons between the FYA and the doghouse. It's somewhat interesting, considering it's the first FYA installments in the state, so not a lot of people had an idea of what it is.

It was dated 18 April 2002. My bad for not including that in the original post. Totally forgot.

That's actually a very helpful document. I may steal that!

The first of the 4-section FYAs, as originally adopted by FHWA, were first implemented at five locations in Reno, NV. This is according to NCHRP Report 493 (PDF, pg 29) which was the study that led to the evaluation of the various PPLT displays previously used across the country and recommended the FHWA's adopt the FYA into the MUTCD. In an email chain from the mid 2000s in the now-defunct "Reno Traffic" YahooGroup, the guy who spearheaded trying them out talked a bit more about the background of their history in Reno.

I believe these were tried out beginning in the mid-1990s, but they were later removed due to a change in the traffic engineering staff leadership that wanted the same signalization across the city–the guy who spearheaded them had since left the city for the private sector. The FYAs were gone by mid-2001 at the latest (as I never saw any of them when I started college in Reno in 2001) so unfortunately I have no idea what intersections they were used at so can't compare with what's there today. (Although if I had to guess, I'd probably guess a few locations along Virginia Street.) A few of Sparks' 5-section variants persisted until 2002-03 or so, and the couple locations I'm aware of that used it still have regular doghouses today.

Once the FYA was adopted in the 2009 MUTCD, Reno was a very early adopter and quickly changed out most (if not all) doghouses within a couple years. They were probably the first city in Nevada with more than a handful of signals to completely change over doghouses to FYAs.

[Amtrakprod]

Massachusetts wasn't too quick to the flashing yellow arrow game. We started installing them in the state in 2013. https://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-launches-flashing-yellow-arrow-traffic-signal-project/

MassDOT found them successful, thus making a wide spread replacement program that changed 350+ signal intersections to FYAs. Once the state started using them, many towns did too. 2018 was the year where I realized 95% of new lights with left turn only lanes permissive would use FYAs. I'd say about 75% of towns in the state have atleast one FYA. Heck, even my town has one now!
TLDR:
Massachusetts was far from a FYA pioneer but they're very common now.



iPhone

[SkyPesos]

For MO. After the MO 340 pilot program, they've been popping up in more locations.  Specifically in the St Louis area, MoDOT maintained routes had a mass replacement program in the mid 2010s to replace doghouses with the FYA. Some routes that are mostly FYA for permissive (3 section) or protected-permissive (4 section) now are 30, 340, 366, 100 and 180. US 67 has a notable section through Kirkwood that still uses doghouses, but otherwise, it's mostly FYA too. On non-numbered roads, new replacements have mostly been FYA, but they're not in a hurry to replace all the doghouses. The state doesn't use FYA for right turns though, and installations with a FYA left and doghouse right on the same mast arm are common.

Meanwhile in Ohio: "wait, FYAs exist?  "

[PurdueBill]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

[SkyPesos]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

I saw some FYAs on OH 747 in West Chester today. Apparently, they were there since last April as part of an ODOT pilot project. Could probably dig out the dashcam footage and post some pictures of them here later. They were 3 section FYAs, with the flashing yellow sharing the same middle section with the solid yellow. They took me by surprise a bit, as I'm used to the 4 section ones that other agencies like MoDOT uses for protected-permissive.
Besides that, there's a couple of one-offs in my area, like Tylersville Rd and US 42 and OH 741 and Bethany Rd (those 2 are the standard 4 section FYAs).

[PurdueBill]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

I saw some FYAs on OH 747 in West Chester today. Apparently, they were there since last April as part of an ODOT pilot project. Could probably dig out the dashcam footage and post some pictures of them here later. They were 3 section FYAs, with the flashing yellow sharing the same middle section with the solid yellow. They took me by surprise a bit, as I'm used to the 4 section ones that other agencies like MoDOT uses for protected-permissive.
Besides that, there's a couple of one-offs in my area, like Tylersville Rd and US 42 and OH 741 and Bethany Rd (those 2 are the standard 4 section FYAs).

The Mason ones are among very interesting mishmash of doghouses and FYAs.  There seem to be very few FYAs in Ohio so far.  I was quite surprised to see it yesterday.  Indiana, on the other hand, seems to be all-in on changing for them.

[SkyPesos]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

I saw some FYAs on OH 747 in West Chester today. Apparently, they were there since last April as part of an ODOT pilot project. Could probably dig out the dashcam footage and post some pictures of them here later. They were 3 section FYAs, with the flashing yellow sharing the same middle section with the solid yellow. They took me by surprise a bit, as I'm used to the 4 section ones that other agencies like MoDOT uses for protected-permissive.
Besides that, there's a couple of one-offs in my area, like Tylersville Rd and US 42 and OH 741 and Bethany Rd (those 2 are the standard 4 section FYAs).

The Mason ones are among very interesting mishmash of doghouses and FYAs.  There seem to be very few FYAs in Ohio so far.  I was quite surprised to see it yesterday.  Indiana, on the other hand, seems to be all-in on changing for them.

Something tells me that Mason sort of gave up on the FYA after those two were installed. All the span wire signals on Mason-Montgomery Rd between Merten Dr (near the Marriott at I-71 exit 19) and Terra Firma Dr (near Kroger and P&G Mason) got replaced with mast arms in 2018, and they still used doghouse signals for left turns on the replacements. I thought for a while during the replacement process that they will use FYAs for left turns, and I was so wrong, and a bit disappointed too. Didn't really care about FYA for right turns that much, as I mentioned upthread, MoDOT was an early pioneer of FYA signals, but still use doghouses for right turns to this day.

[Amtrakprod]

This is a first for new england: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4271974,-71.073428,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stRokmvo84Gh-UmPDmPdcrw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[fwydriver405]

This is a first for new england: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4271974,-71.073428,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stRokmvo84Gh-UmPDmPdcrw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I was thinking that they could have used a normal FYA on the direction with the dedicated left turn lane, and put the FYA doghouse on the opposing side with the shared left/thru approach, to prevent phase skip yellow trap. The configuration shown here could still yellow trap with phase skip. Interesting how a FYA doghouse was chosen for an approach over just using a standard FYA configuration...

Is the FYA portion of the doghouse bimodal (steady green arrow/flashing yellow arrow)?

[Revive 755]

For MO. After the MO 340 pilot program, they've been popping up in more locations.  Specifically in the St Louis area, MoDOT maintained routes had a mass replacement program in the mid 2010s to replace doghouses with the FYA. Some routes that are mostly FYA for permissive (3 section) or protected-permissive (4 section) now are 30, 340, 366, 100 and 180. US 67 has a notable section through Kirkwood that still uses doghouses, but otherwise, it's mostly FYA too.

Kirkwood replaced their signals on US 61-67 with flashing yellow arrows a year or two ago.  The new signals are also horizontally mounted mounted, and I think the mast arms were of the decorative variety.

There may still be the odd signal at US 61-67 and Mehl Avenue in South County where the NB doghouse was replaced and the southbound was not.

MoDOT also upgraded many of the signals on MO 231 and at the interchanges along I-55 with FYA's.  At least on Streetview it doesn't look like they have changed most of the signals on MO 267 yet.

[Amtrakprod]

This is a first for new england: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4271974,-71.073428,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stRokmvo84Gh-UmPDmPdcrw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I was thinking that they could have used a normal FYA on the direction with the dedicated left turn lane, and put the FYA doghouse on the opposing side with the shared left/thru approach, to prevent phase skip yellow trap. The configuration shown here could still yellow trap with phase skip. Interesting how a FYA doghouse was chosen for an approach over just using a standard FYA configuration...

Is the FYA portion of the doghouse bimodal (steady green arrow/flashing yellow arrow)?

Yeah, it was a weird choice.

Yea it is a green arrow/flashing yellow arrow hybrid. I'm planning on filming this light soon


iPhone

[jakeroot]

I wonder if maybe the plan was for northbound Commercial St to use a shared left/straight lane, with a right-only to eastbound Pleasant St? They may have changed lane configurations late in the game but declined to change the signalization design as it technically still worked. The shared left/straight lane would have necessitated some form of bimodal FYA assuming they wanted to use an FYA signal.

I am basing my hypothesis off the design of the street; the straight lane must jog left to keep going straight. Plus the double yellow lines are perfectly opposite each other, which more often than not is an indication of two lanes that also allow straight-ahead movements (if possibly in addition to left turns).

The current setup definitely does not need that bimodal 5-section FYA. A regular FYA signal would have been fine.

[SkyPesos]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

I saw some FYAs on OH 747 in West Chester today. Apparently, they were there since last April as part of an ODOT pilot project. Could probably dig out the dashcam footage and post some pictures of them here later. They were 3 section FYAs, with the flashing yellow sharing the same middle section with the solid yellow. They took me by surprise a bit, as I'm used to the 4 section ones that other agencies like MoDOT uses for protected-permissive.
Besides that, there's a couple of one-offs in my area, like Tylersville Rd and US 42 and OH 741 and Bethany Rd (those 2 are the standard 4 section FYAs).

The Mason ones are among very interesting mishmash of doghouses and FYAs.  There seem to be very few FYAs in Ohio so far.  I was quite surprised to see it yesterday.  Indiana, on the other hand, seems to be all-in on changing for them.

Edit: Went out today and found the FYAs on OH 747 that's part of the ODOT pilot program. Here's one of them below. Quality isn't that great because I converted the dashcam footage to a GIF.

[mrsman]

I saw my first Ohio FYA yesterday in Stow on Fishcreek Road.  Previously there was a 3-way intersection at the entrance to Meijer/Aldi/former Macy's but now there is a 4-way intersection where there will be a large Summa medical building.  Fishcreek now has operating FYA assemblies, and the driveways have what appear to be protected lefts (which could be a pain in the ass really; I wonder if it will be necessary vs. FYAs for those approaches too--they are 3-head left turn signals so probably protected ones).  Could not get a picture yesterday but will be back there.  Everyone has seen FYAs before.  They were flashing as I approached and turned in to Meijer.  Everything else similar has doghouses still around there; it will be interesting to see if anything changes.  There are a number of instances in Cuyahoga Falls and Stow of even recently-instealled doghouses and of protected left signals with red balls which I wonder if might be changed sometime.  Being Ohio, I doubt it, but who knows.  This FYA came out of nowhere.

I saw some FYAs on OH 747 in West Chester today. Apparently, they were there since last April as part of an ODOT pilot project. Could probably dig out the dashcam footage and post some pictures of them here later. They were 3 section FYAs, with the flashing yellow sharing the same middle section with the solid yellow. They took me by surprise a bit, as I'm used to the 4 section ones that other agencies like MoDOT uses for protected-permissive.
Besides that, there's a couple of one-offs in my area, like Tylersville Rd and US 42 and OH 741 and Bethany Rd (those 2 are the standard 4 section FYAs).

The Mason ones are among very interesting mishmash of doghouses and FYAs.  There seem to be very few FYAs in Ohio so far.  I was quite surprised to see it yesterday.  Indiana, on the other hand, seems to be all-in on changing for them.

Edit: Went out today and found the FYAs on OH 747 that's part of the ODOT pilot program. Here's one of them below. Quality isn't that great because I converted the dashcam footage to a GIF.

While it is certainly cheaper to convert a RA-YA-GA to a 3 aspect FYA signal by having the middle section flash (it would seem to only require a software change for the controller) I don't like it since I perceive a definite safety loss in the arrangement.  Perhaps the purpose of the pilot isn't simply to measure people's understanding of the FYA itself (as so many other states have already done that with demonstrated safety benefits) but rather to measure people's understanding of a 3 aspect FYA and whether they do in fact properly perceive the change from flashing YA to steady YA.

While there are a number of good reasons for FYA treatment, my view is that the main unique benefit is a safe way of allowing permissive left turns for the side opposite a lagging left, without producing a yellow trap.  The way that the 4 aspect FYA (and the 3 aspect RA-FYA-YA signal if there is no protected green) achieves that is by requiring drivers to focus solely on the 4 aspect FYA singal (and ignore the adjacent thru signal) when judging whether opposing traffic is bound to stop for a red light.  THe FYA signal in my line of sight is geared directly to the opposing signal, I see FYA when opposing traffic is green, I see a steady YA when they see a steady yellow, and I see a red arrow when they see a red orb.

So the key question for this Ohio pilot, assuming it is used opposite to a lagging left, is whether drivers do in fact perceive the change from flashing yellow to steady yellow without an aspect change, independent of the adjacent thru signals.  If they do not, then we have the "perceived yellow trap" problem that was discussed on this thread years ago and it won't be safe.  In such a case, these signals will only be used in contexts where both sides are leading lefts and in that case, IMO, you might as well use doghouses instead.

[SkyPesos]

While it is certainly cheaper to convert a RA-YA-GA to a 3 aspect FYA signal by having the middle section flash (it would seem to only require a software change for the controller) I don't like it since I perceive a definite safety loss in the arrangement.  Perhaps the purpose of the pilot isn't simply to measure people's understanding of the FYA itself (as so many other states have already done that with demonstrated safety benefits) but rather to measure people's understanding of a 3 aspect FYA and whether they do in fact properly perceive the change from flashing YA to steady YA.

While there are a number of good reasons for FYA treatment, my view is that the main unique benefit is a safe way of allowing permissive left turns for the side opposite a lagging left, without producing a yellow trap.  The way that the 4 aspect FYA (and the 3 aspect RA-FYA-YA signal if there is no protected green) achieves that is by requiring drivers to focus solely on the 4 aspect FYA singal (and ignore the adjacent thru signal) when judging whether opposing traffic is bound to stop for a red light.  THe FYA signal in my line of sight is geared directly to the opposing signal, I see FYA when opposing traffic is green, I see a steady YA when they see a steady yellow, and I see a red arrow when they see a red orb.

So the key question for this Ohio pilot, assuming it is used opposite to a lagging left, is whether drivers do in fact perceive the change from flashing yellow to steady yellow without an aspect change, independent of the adjacent thru signals.  If they do not, then we have the "perceived yellow trap" problem that was discussed on this thread years ago and it won't be safe.  In such a case, these signals will only be used in contexts where both sides are leading lefts and in that case, IMO, you might as well use doghouses instead.

I had to check the footage again if the opposite side had a lagging left, but the answer to that is no, as after the FYA (and the through signals for this matter) turns red, the cross street gets their green. Here's a part where the FYA turns to a solid yellow. After rewatching it a couple of times, it's sometimes difficult to see the change without relying on the through signals. Not sure how other drivers react to it, guess we have to wait until the results of the study gets released, and what ODOT will do afterwards.


Also going to leave this here. The ODOT brochure for this pilot program also uses the 3 section FYA, so this may be what they will be going with. I'm still not sure why they chose the 3 section over the standard 4 section, since they're replacing the doghouses anyways (the section under the study used to have doghouses). If they're really trying to cut costs with signal replacement, they would turn the middle left section of the doghouse into a FYA.

Last thing to note, the 3 section with the RA-YA-FYA arrangement also exists in this section