News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

Started by NJRoadfan, June 17, 2010, 10:58:35 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

jeffandnicole

Quote from: US 41 on June 17, 2014, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on June 17, 2014, 07:47:30 PM
Quote from: US 41
Yes... flashing yellow = green + "proceed with caution".....
But "proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield".

Hey, US 41. Let me ask you something. "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield" is a notion I don't quite understand and I've been in Missoula all my life. I know what each full red/yellow/green color means but I am new to the FYA situation since Missoula now has an FYA phase at Dore Lane and Brooks Street. Please explain and clarify to the community this: Why do you think that "Proceed with caution" DOES NOT MEAN "assume yield"?

Simple. When I approach an intersection and the light is flashing yellow, I go. A flashing yellow IMO is equivalent to a green. Either way you have to watch out for the occasional idiot that might pull out in front of you. You should proceed with caution at every intersection, but you shouldn't have to assume yield at every intersection.

Here's the Indiana law pertaining to flashing yellow: "(2) Flashing yellow (caution signal) means that when a yellow lens is illuminated with rapid intermittent flashes, a person who drives a vehicle may proceed through the intersection or past the signal only with caution."

My suggestion: If you are in an accident or a traffic stop involving a flashing yellow, don't tell the cop that you believe it has the same meaning as a green light.  It's not going to go in your favor.


US 41

You still have the right of way if it flashing yellow. Whoever pulls out in front of the other vehicle and gets hit will be the one guilty of causing the accident.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

wisvishr0

Ahh, I see. I think it's a problem with the way I'm defining "yield." Yielding isn't only "letting people in the intersection go." It's also "letting people who are approaching the intersection go." If you approach a yield sign, you don't simply look at the intersection, but you also look at maybe 300 ft around the intersection to see if any cars will be in the intersection. That often means you have to slow down (nearly) to a stop so you can see around the corner. In a flashing yellow light (not arrow), you wouldn't slow down to a near stop to see if people are approaching the intersection from 300 ft away, and then go: you'd just see if anyone is in the intersection or about to pull up to the intersection, and then you'd go. Basically, yield=stop sign, except without stopping.

A flashing yellow arrow, however, means you have to look up the road a few hundred feet, just like a yield sign, and give way to approaching oncoming traffic. It's the same as a flashing red, except you don't have to stop. If you had the right of way (green arrow), you would only have to yield to people in the intersection already. So what's the difference between green and flashing yellow?

In fact, this is the definition of a green light in the Maryland Drivers manual:

"Proceed with caution after you have checked first to see that other vehicles have cleared
the intersection." ... "You must yield to pedestrians and vehicles already in the intersection."

A flashing yellow light is:
"You must slow down and proceed with caution."

Both say you must proceed with caution. If a green light means "proceed with caution," and a green light gives you the right of way, it's safe to assume that flashing yellow also means you have the right of way. Therefore, flashing yellow = green light. QED.

There's literally no difference (in the Maryland manual at least), except you don't have to slow down in a green light. That's why it's so confusing.

Mr_Northside

I guess my main aversion is that I grew up learning that arrows were specifically for indicating protected turn movements.... but a FYA seems to use an arrow simply for indicating direction, without that "turn protection" which goes against what PA taught me. 
QuoteTherefore, flashing yellow = green light. QED
And an arrow modifier should make a FYA = green arrow.

Except for stop sign situations, where you can make any legal movement when it's your turn, you always yield to oncoming traffic... whether it's turning left into your driveway, an unsignalized intersection, a simple traffic signal with no turn lane, etc...  When do you NOT have to yield??  When you have an arrow.  More than just indicating direction, the essence of it's existence is to say that you can turn without yielding.  Until they invented the FYA... where you have the oxymoron of yielding to oncoming traffic despite having some kind of arrow.

I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

tradephoric

The meaning of the FYA has been debated for the past 3 pages in this thread (by people who probably read up on the MUTCD in their free time).  If that doesn't tell you how ambiguous the FYA is, then I don't know what does.  A flashing red arrow would have made more sense to your average driver.  A 3-year old understands Red means Stop.

Quote from: roadfro on June 18, 2014, 02:00:56 AM
The MUTCD did not use a flashing red arrow (instead of flashing yellow arrow) for the permissive left turns because the red arrow requires each and every vehicle to come to a complete stop prior to making the turn. A yellow arrow allows the yield condition--permitting multiple vehicles to turn at once if the way is clear, but also compelling a stop if the way is not clear.

In practice, drivers would ignore the legal meaning of a flashing red arrow and treat it as a "rolling stop" .  Michigan and Maryland already use a flashing red indication for their permissive left turns and drivers in those states don't come to a complete stop when there is no opposing traffic.  This driver behavior is detailed in a study that evaluated traffic signal displays for Protected-Permissive left turns:

QuoteEvaluation of Traffic Signal Displays for Protected-Permitted Left Turn Control NCHRP Project 3-54
The exception to these results was the three-section vertical display with a flashing red ball permitted indication which is used in Oakland County, Michigan.  Although drivers are legally required to stop before making a permitted left-turn, Oakland County drivers seemed to interpret the meaning of the flashing red ball permitted indication to be the same as the yellow or green permitted indications.  Several law enforcement officers were observed during the data collection process, none of which found it necessary to enforce (i.e ticket) this legal requirements.  In fact, many of these same law enforcement officers were observed violating the stop requirement themselves.  Clearly, drivers in Oakland County have an implied meaning of the flashing red ball permitted indication that is different than intended, which adds difficulty for non-local drivers.

A driver who has never encountered a flashing red arrow indication is likely to come to a full stop and assess the situation to determine if it's safe to proceed (red means stop in the back of their minds).  A driver who has never encountered a flashing yellow arrow may pull out in-front of oncoming traffic because they mistakenly believe they have the right-of-way (yellow means proceed in the back of their minds).  I know which scenario i would prefer.

brickbuilder711

On Google Earth, I noticed that Gainesville has been almost entirely converted to FYAs. I find it interesting and unusual, but wonder if it would have anything to do with it being a college town that just happened to create a rush to convert all lights to those FYAs.

lordsutch

Quote from: tradephoric on June 18, 2014, 04:57:44 PM
In practice, drivers would ignore the legal meaning of a flashing red arrow and treat it as a "rolling stop" .

Which would be a revenue enhancement wet dream for every municipality with red light cameras. Rolling stops are illegal, period, and FHWA isn't going to design a traffic control device that is based on the concept "yeah, we really don't think anyone will obey the law, but whatevs."

Besides the optional supplementary regulatory sign is there for a reason, just like the "obvious" doghouse is regularly supplemented with the "left turn yield on green ball" sign (R10-12) and "obvious" solid-arrow signals are supplemented with "left turn signal" signs (R10-10L).

tradephoric

^I fully understand why the FHWA didn't choose the Flashing Red Arrow, but from a safety perspective, it probably would have been a safer choice.

roadfro

Quote from: lordsutch on June 19, 2014, 01:59:11 AM
...and "obvious" solid-arrow signals are supplemented with "left turn signal" signs (R10-10L).

The supplemental "Left Turn Signal" signs are more a holdover from the transition to arrow signals in the first place. In many jurisdictions, the first left turn signals had a green arrow but circular red and yellow (potentially due to state laws governing display of red indications). Thus, a sign was needed to help explain the fact that a red ball and green ball could be displayed on the same approach at the same time. In most cases, the sign is no longer necessary as the left turn signals are more commonly seen as all-arrow displays.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Tom895

In Socal, there are a few cities that  have flashing yellow arrow signals. Torrance and Long Beach Started using them at some intersections.

mrsman

Quote from: roadfro on June 18, 2014, 02:11:18 AM
Quote from: mrsman on June 16, 2014, 08:11:45 PM
Yes, it is a replacement for Dallas phasing.  In my opinion, most drivers are programmed to believe that when they see a yellow light, opposing traffic also sees a yellow light and so they will complete a left turn, even though in reality the opposing traffic does not have a yellow light leading to red.  Hence, the yellow trap.

But I don't believe the flashing yellow  helps in this regard, because so many drivers are programmed to wait in the middle of the intersection to make their left turn and will turn as soon as they see adjacent traffic coming to a stop (and mistakenly concluding that opposing traffic also is coming to a stop), irrespective of what the signal may be saying.

I prefer the approach for lead/lag signals of having either a) protected only lead - protected only lag or b) protected only lead - protected/permissive lag.  Even though this may hurt left turn throughput, it is far safer and avoids the yellow trap completely.

Other safe possiblities are lead/lead and lag/lag using either doghouses (protected/permissive) or red arrows (protected only).

If a driver is making a permissive left turn and has pulled into the intersection, they should not be bothered by what the adjacent traffic is doing or what that signal is displaying. They should be concentrating on the opposing traffic and the left lane signal that governs his/her own movement. That's what eliminates the yellow trap.

The lead/lag protected phasing with permitted lefts during the non-permitted phases tends to allow the most throughput when you have a coordinated arterial where dual-direction progression is desired. This was pretty much the impetus for developing Dallas Phasing to begin with. Lead/lead and lag/lag does not typically lend itself to good dual-direction progression unless the intersection is at an end of the coordinated corridor.

I guess the real issue then is to be sure that drivers are in fact focusing solely on their FYA and ignoring what the adjacent traffic is doing. Are there any accident statistics yet for when FYAs are used to implement lead/lag protecive/permissive phasing? 

Very few flashing yellow or red arrows in my area.  The only one close to me that I sometimes turn at seems to always employ a lead protective/permissive left turn with a flashing red arrow.  (there used to be a doghouse there, but they changed it to flashing red arrow without adjusting the signal sequencing).

tradephoric

Quote from: mrsman link=topic=2983.msg307452#msg307452
I guess the real issue then is to be sure that drivers are in fact focusing solely on their FYA and ignoring what the adjacent traffic is doing. Are there any accident statistics yet for when FYAs are used to implement lead/lag protecive/permissive phasing? 

There has been roughly a 30% increase in injury accidents at FYA installs in SE Michigan (and a 75% increase in head-on left-turn accidents which can be directly attributed to the left-turn signal phase operation).  All crash data obtained through SEMCOG:



Since the introduction of the FYA, the left-turn signal phasing in SE Michigan has become much more complex (which likely explains the increase in injury accidents).  With Michigan's old style "flashing red ball" , drivers would never get stuck in the middle of the intersection because the protected left-turn phase would always come up after the through phase.  In addition, the lagging left turns were never allowed to skip.  This was done to prevent a flashing red ball going straight to a solid red ball with no clearance interval.  Any potential for "perceived yellow traps"  were eliminated since the left turns would come up together regardless of detection. 

With the introduction of the FYA in SE Michigan, drivers now routinely get "stuck"  in the middle of the intersection and can experience "perceived yellow traps" .  In addition, a change in the permissive indication color & symbol (from a "red"  ball to a "yellow"  arrow) may be confusing to some drivers (they may mistakenly believe that they have the right of way when coming up to flashing yellow indication).

mrsman

Quote from: tradephoric on June 22, 2014, 01:30:44 PM
Quote from: mrsman link=topic=2983.msg307452#msg307452
I guess the real issue then is to be sure that drivers are in fact focusing solely on their FYA and ignoring what the adjacent traffic is doing. Are there any accident statistics yet for when FYAs are used to implement lead/lag protecive/permissive phasing? 


Since the introduction of the FYA, the left-turn signal phasing in SE Michigan has become much more complex (which likely explains the increase in injury accidents).  With Michigan's old style "flashing red ball" , drivers would never get stuck in the middle of the intersection because the protected left-turn phase would always come up after the through phase.  In addition, the lagging left turns were never allowed to skip.  This was done to prevent a flashing red ball going straight to a solid red ball with no clearance interval.  Any potential for "perceived yellow traps"  were eliminated since the left turns would come up together regardless of detection. 

With the introduction of the FYA in SE Michigan, drivers now routinely get "stuck"  in the middle of the intersection and can experience "perceived yellow traps" .  In addition, a change in the permissive indication color & symbol (from a "red"  ball to a "yellow"  arrow) may be confusing to some drivers (they may mistakenly believe that they have the right of way when coming up to flashing yellow indication).

It seems to me that if Michigan has a history of a flashing red ball to indicate permissive left turns, they probably should have followed Maryland and Delaware and used flashing red arrows instead of flashing yellow arrows.

Another important question with regard to these FYA set-ups is whether traffic from the northbound direction should be allowed to make a permissive left turn when the southbound direction has a green and a green arrow:

For instance the following sequencing:

Signal over NB thru, NB left, SB thru, SB left:

1) NB green, NB green arrow, SB red, SB permissive
2) NB green, NB yellow arrow, SB red, SB permissive
3) NB green, NB dark            , SB red, SB permissive [one second]
4) NB green, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
5) NB yellow, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
6) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive [one-second]
7) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB green arrow
8) NB red, NB permissive-yellow ball, SB yellow, SB yellow arrow
9) NB red, NB red ball,                         SB red,       SB red ball [one -second all-red clearance]
10) NB red, NB red ball,                       SB red,        SB red ball [cross-traffic right of way].

Could something like this work?  I'm thinking along the lines of a 5 head traffic signal over the left turn lane that is red ball-yellow ball-FYA-yellow arrow-green arrow.  The FYA will show when there is to be a permissive left turn.  The yellow ball over the FYA is to show to signal that the permissive phase is coming to an end and not leading to a protected phase.  If a driver could somehow ignore what adjacent drivers are doing, and focus instead on their own light, they may be able to realize that they are welcome to wait all the way until the all-red clearance to complete their turn, if they cannot find an appropriate gap earlier.  It's a lot like Dallas phasing, that for the left turning driver, the indication of the light facing the opposing driver is much more important than that facing the adjacent driver.

The key to avoiding the perceived yellow trap is what happens during signal phase #5.  The NB left turner must be able to ignore the fact that the NB thru drivers have a yellow signal.   The signal of the NB left turner doesn't change and he will continue to have a permissive left turn, even if the adjacent drivers have red.

I'm just not confident that most drivers out there can do this, and that we will still continue to see perceived yellow trap problems as a result.


roadfro

Quote from: mrsman on June 22, 2014, 02:20:18 PM
Another important question with regard to these FYA set-ups is whether traffic from the northbound direction should be allowed to make a permissive left turn when the southbound direction has a green and a green arrow:

For instance the following sequencing:

Signal over NB thru, NB left, SB thru, SB left:

1) NB green, NB green arrow, SB red, SB permissive
2) NB green, NB yellow arrow, SB red, SB permissive
3) NB green, NB dark            , SB red, SB permissive [one second]
4) NB green, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
5) NB yellow, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
6) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive [one-second]
7) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB green arrow
8) NB red, NB permissive-yellow ball, SB yellow, SB yellow arrow
9) NB red, NB red ball,                         SB red,       SB red ball [one -second all-red clearance]
10) NB red, NB red ball,                       SB red,        SB red ball [cross-traffic right of way].

Could something like this work?  I'm thinking along the lines of a 5 head traffic signal over the left turn lane that is red ball-yellow ball-FYA-yellow arrow-green arrow.  The FYA will show when there is to be a permissive left turn.  The yellow ball over the FYA is to show to signal that the permissive phase is coming to an end and not leading to a protected phase.  If a driver could somehow ignore what adjacent drivers are doing, and focus instead on their own light, they may be able to realize that they are welcome to wait all the way until the all-red clearance to complete their turn, if they cannot find an appropriate gap earlier.  It's a lot like Dallas phasing, that for the left turning driver, the indication of the light facing the opposing driver is much more important than that facing the adjacent driver.

The key to avoiding the perceived yellow trap is what happens during signal phase #5.  The NB left turner must be able to ignore the fact that the NB thru drivers have a yellow signal.   The signal of the NB left turner doesn't change and he will continue to have a permissive left turn, even if the adjacent drivers have red.

I'm just not confident that most drivers out there can do this, and that we will still continue to see perceived yellow trap problems as a result.

One of the benefits of the FYA design is that the permitted turns can be done without regard to what adjacent traffic is doing, i.e. when the signal operates in the permissive mode, it is tied to the opposing through movement. (In other words, a NB left FYA is flashing whenever the SB thru has a green.)

The signal operation you propose doesn't work because the signal you describe would combine circular indications with arrow indications in what sounds to be an exclusive left turn signal head display. The MUTCD now prohibits circular displays in dedicated left turn signal heads. Also, not sure that this would be a good visual cue to make the distinction between ending a permissive phase and going to red or going to protected (and I don't think that distinction is very important anyway).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

PColumbus73

South Carolina is about to install a few FYAs. For single-lane protected left turns, SC uses double-red left turn signals. It would be interesting if South Carolina used a double-red flashing yellow arrow

mrsman

Quote from: roadfro on June 24, 2014, 04:09:30 AM
Quote from: mrsman on June 22, 2014, 02:20:18 PM
Another important question with regard to these FYA set-ups is whether traffic from the northbound direction should be allowed to make a permissive left turn when the southbound direction has a green and a green arrow:

For instance the following sequencing:

Signal over NB thru, NB left, SB thru, SB left:

1) NB green, NB green arrow, SB red, SB permissive
2) NB green, NB yellow arrow, SB red, SB permissive
3) NB green, NB dark            , SB red, SB permissive [one second]
4) NB green, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
5) NB yellow, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive
6) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB permissive [one-second]
7) NB red, NB permissive, SB green, SB green arrow
8) NB red, NB permissive-yellow ball, SB yellow, SB yellow arrow
9) NB red, NB red ball,                         SB red,       SB red ball [one -second all-red clearance]
10) NB red, NB red ball,                       SB red,        SB red ball [cross-traffic right of way].

Could something like this work?  I'm thinking along the lines of a 5 head traffic signal over the left turn lane that is red ball-yellow ball-FYA-yellow arrow-green arrow.  The FYA will show when there is to be a permissive left turn.  The yellow ball over the FYA is to show to signal that the permissive phase is coming to an end and not leading to a protected phase.  If a driver could somehow ignore what adjacent drivers are doing, and focus instead on their own light, they may be able to realize that they are welcome to wait all the way until the all-red clearance to complete their turn, if they cannot find an appropriate gap earlier.  It's a lot like Dallas phasing, that for the left turning driver, the indication of the light facing the opposing driver is much more important than that facing the adjacent driver.

The key to avoiding the perceived yellow trap is what happens during signal phase #5.  The NB left turner must be able to ignore the fact that the NB thru drivers have a yellow signal.   The signal of the NB left turner doesn't change and he will continue to have a permissive left turn, even if the adjacent drivers have red.

I'm just not confident that most drivers out there can do this, and that we will still continue to see perceived yellow trap problems as a result.

One of the benefits of the FYA design is that the permitted turns can be done without regard to what adjacent traffic is doing, i.e. when the signal operates in the permissive mode, it is tied to the opposing through movement. (In other words, a NB left FYA is flashing whenever the SB thru has a green.)

The signal operation you propose doesn't work because the signal you describe would combine circular indications with arrow indications in what sounds to be an exclusive left turn signal head display. The MUTCD now prohibits circular displays in dedicated left turn signal heads. Also, not sure that this would be a good visual cue to make the distinction between ending a permissive phase and going to red or going to protected (and I don't think that distinction is very important anyway).

I think there does need to be some indication of a traffic light changing to a more restrictive phase, but not to a less restrictive phase.

Going from green to red, we have a yellow light as a warning that the green is coming to an end.  But in most of the US at least, we don't have a similar indication from red to green.  We don't need people jumping out of the gate as soon as the light turns green, since there could be other traffic that ran the red the other direction.  [Some countries do indicate this with a red+yellow]

For the lead side, we have a steady yellow arrow followed by a brief dark phase to indicate that we no longer have a protected left.  Similar to the current operation of doghouse lights with a lead protected arrow. 

But the left turners on the lead side also need an indication to know that the red light is coming.  Yes, while the lag side has a protected left, the lead side has a permissive left.  To indicate that the lagging protected left is ending, the lagging side sees a yellow arrow and then a red arrow, right before cross traffic comes through.

But what would the lead side see at this point?  How would they know that opposing traffic is now seeing the yellow ball and that they have to now make their left turn and clear the intersection before cross-traffic gets a green?  It needs to be different from a flashing yellow arrow (indicating permissive left).  It needs to be different from solid yellow arrow (indicating the end of a protected left turn).   

With regards to the yellow trap problem, the problem is that the lead side sees the yellow light when the adjacent thru phase is ending and believes that it means that opposing traffic's phase is also ending.  If we can successfully convince left turners to ignore the adjacent light, but put the yellow ball on the left turning light when the opposing traffic also sees the yellow ball, then we give the left turners the indication that they are used to.  The yellow light means that the red is coming and that the phase dedicated to cross-traffic is coming and that opposing traffic should be coming to a stop, so when they do, make a left turn.

There is no need for a singal indication from permissive to protected, since that is less restrictive.

vdeane

Regarding red to green, some kind of indicator of the change would help those of us with stick shifts to know when to take the car out of neutral.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman65

We have some intersections with the new 4 lens head that has two yellow arrows along with the standard amber one before the signal turns and the flasher yellow beneath it above the green, yet its used as a left turn signal without the flasher ever being used.  I do not understand why they install it if the purpose of its existence is not going to be used.

The new Wal Mart on Orange Blossom Trail and Oakridge Road uses the flasher yellow assembly without flashing the yellow.  Orange Blossom Trail at Taft-Vineland Road also has it as well as Central Florida Parkway at Orangewood Boulevard.  All of these new signals as two of them replaced old ones and the other is a new installation. Nonetheless do not use the flasher at all!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadfro

Quote from: mrsman on June 27, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
I think there does need to be some indication of a traffic light changing to a more restrictive phase, but not to a less restrictive phase.
<snip>
For the lead side, we have a steady yellow arrow followed by a brief dark phase to indicate that we no longer have a protected left.  Similar to the current operation of doghouse lights with a lead protected arrow.
Nevada uses a brief red phase to indicate the end of a leading protected left prior to the permissive phase. I think that is better than a dark signal. Anyway, theoretically speaking, this operation could omit the red/dark phase and go straight to flashing yellow arrow.

Quote from: mrsman
But the left turners on the lead side also need an indication to know that the red light is coming.  Yes, while the lag side has a protected left, the lead side has a permissive left.  To indicate that the lagging protected left is ending, the lagging side sees a yellow arrow and then a red arrow, right before cross traffic comes through.

But what would the lead side see at this point?  How would they know that opposing traffic is now seeing the yellow ball and that they have to now make their left turn and clear the intersection before cross-traffic gets a green?  It needs to be different from a flashing yellow arrow (indicating permissive left).  It needs to be different from solid yellow arrow (indicating the end of a protected left turn).   

With regards to the yellow trap problem, the problem is that the lead side sees the yellow light when the adjacent thru phase is ending and believes that it means that opposing traffic's phase is also ending.  If we can successfully convince left turners to ignore the adjacent light, but put the yellow ball on the left turning light when the opposing traffic also sees the yellow ball, then we give the left turners the indication that they are used to.  The yellow light means that the red is coming and that the phase dedicated to cross-traffic is coming and that opposing traffic should be coming to a stop, so when they do, make a left turn.

There is no need for a singal indication from permissive to protected, since that is less restrictive.

At a leading left, toward the end of the permissive phase, the signal goes from flashing yellow arrow to steady yellow arrow to red arrow. By MUTCD standards, the steady yellow arrow must always overlap directly with the opposing circular yellow unless an "Opposing traffic has(may have) extended green" sign exists.

The steady yellow arrow is meant to show that the proceeding protected or permitted movement (i.e. the associated green or flashing arrow phase) is ending. It has no bearing on what other traffic is about to do. The permissive left face doesn't need anything different.

At an all-arrow left turn signal, drivers really need to disregard the adjacent signals because all the appropriate cues are in the left turn signal. Take the case of lagging lefts, where traffic is uneven and the lefts don't come on at the same time (there's a protected/permitted intersection in Reno with lagging lefts that does this). The green arrow can come on before the adjacent thru terminates for the opposing lagging left, thus you can see a green arrow and adjacent yellow signals simultaneously on the approach. On the opposite approach, the thru terminates prior to the FYA, and I've never seen drivers misinterpret that the permitted turn was ending early.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

CYoder

Spotted a few in Kingsport, TN a few months ago.  There are two right off of I-81 at the TN 36 exit (Fort Henry Drive).

brickbuilder711

Noticed a newer one on a -- you guessed it--- span wire traffic light built new on SR 50 near 408, near Oviedo.
I'm sure once I go back to Central FL this week, I'll find a few more. Still, none in South Florida... guess the DOT doesn't want to risk more traffic insanity than there already is.

realjd

Here in Brevard County, FL, they've been actively working to put up FYA signals. What's interesting is that they're also enabling Dallas Phasing where traffic gets a FYA if the opposite direction has green ball and a green arrow, something I haven't seen in Florida before.

Billy F 1988



Now I have proof of the new FYA signal at Brooks Street and Dore Lane in Missoula. In this image, I'm facing northbound US 93 Business/westbound US 12 approaching Dore Lane.



Facing southbound US 93/eastbound US 12 towards Reserve Street.



Approaching Brooks Street going north on Dore Lane.



Wider perspective. Dig the new black colored bell shaped mastarms! :D
Finally upgraded to Expressway after, what, seven or so years on this forum? Took a dadgum while, but, I made it!

agentsteel53

what, the ...

why is the yellow arrow in the bottom slot on the light?  what are the top two?

all FYAs I've ever seen have, from top to bottom, a layout of red arrow, yellow arrow, green arrow. 
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

spooky

Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 30, 2014, 02:44:46 PM
what, the ...

why is the yellow arrow in the bottom slot on the light?  what are the top two?

all FYAs I've ever seen have, from top to bottom, a layout of red arrow, yellow arrow, green arrow. 

The FYA for a permissive-only left turn has a red arrow, yellow arrow, flashing yellow arrow. A FYA for a protected/permissive left should be a 4-section head with a red arrow, yellow arrow, flashing yellow arrow, and green arrow.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.