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Former US 466 from Tehachapi west through Bakersfield

Started by Max Rockatansky, August 08, 2018, 11:21:20 PM

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Max Rockatansky

Drove the old alignments of US 466 west from CA 202 this afternoon.  My route took me on Woodford-Tehachapi Road past the Tehachapi Loop to Keene.  I had to jump on CA 58 for a couple miles to reach Bena Road which I took west to Edison Highway.  From Edison Highway I entered Bakersfield and met CA 204 via Sumter Street.  My album includes some photos of CA 204 on Golden State Boulevard which I took last year out of simplicity.  I'll have a blog post in my US 466 series along with some detailed historic maps coming up this weekend:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmgy6t3A


Max Rockatansky

Finished my 2nd entry in the US 466 Legacy Series.  I find it somewhat odd in retrospect that the routing US 466 between Tehachapi and Bakersfield remained the same until it was decomissioned in the 1964 State Highway renumbering.  Oddly you don't see a lot of cover on US 466 compared to US 99 or even US 399.  To that end I included maps showing the difference between US 466 and CA 58, suffice to say they have some pretty drastic differences in the Tehachapi Range.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/08/legacy-of-us-route-466-part-2-tehachapi.html

Max Rockatansky

Figured that I would just copy over the US 466 maps I made for the route between Tehachapi and Bakersfield:

X1 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X2 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X3 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X4 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X5 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X6 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X7 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

jon daly

What's the history of that blog? I think I've seen Doug Kerr post there, too, but I may be confusing it with another site.

Max Rockatansky

#4
Quote from: jon daly on August 12, 2018, 05:31:55 PM
What's the history of that blog? I think I've seen Doug Kerr post there, too, but I may be confusing it with another site.

That's the one Doug posts on.  The blog actually belongs to Adam Prince, we all post on it.  I know it goes back at least 10 years and has a lot of the old Gribblenation website materials.  Most of my stuff is more recent but I put a lot of my older road stuff up which I never had on websites before. 

jon daly

OK, I wasn't mistaken.

I first became aware of Gribblenation because of their football tv coverage maps and I pictured Dale Gribble spying on FOX and CBS form his exterminator truck to get that info.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: jon daly on August 12, 2018, 08:42:53 PM
OK, I wasn't mistaken.

I first became aware of Gribblenation because of their football tv coverage maps and I pictured Dale Gribble spying on FOX and CBS form his exterminator truck to get that info.

Yeah there was some neat stuff from the Gribblenation site that was uploaded earlier this year.  Adam did a pole and the vintage New York topics won out to be brought back.  The Facebook domain for Surewhynotnow is still Gribblenation actually.  For what it's worth between everyone who contributed I think there is a really solid variety around the country.  I do mostly West Coast stuff but I have very little from Oregon.  Oddly Doug has a ton of stuff he posts on the Facebook sites regarding Oregon Highway history. 

capt.ron

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 08, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
Drove the old alignments of US 466 west from CA 202 this afternoon.  My route took me on Woodford-Tehachapi Road past the Tehachapi Loop to Keene.  I had to jump on CA 58 for a couple miles to reach Bena Road which I took west to Edison Highway.  From Edison Highway I entered Bakersfield and met CA 204 via Sumter Street.  My album includes some photos of CA 204 on Golden State Boulevard which I took last year out of simplicity.  I'll have a blog post in my US 466 series along with some detailed historic maps coming up this weekend:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmgy6t3A
Awesome pics!! Caltrans (or whoever) needs to sign that as Historic 466!! It looks like a fun road to drive. :)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: capt.ron on August 16, 2018, 12:55:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 08, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
Drove the old alignments of US 466 west from CA 202 this afternoon.  My route took me on Woodford-Tehachapi Road past the Tehachapi Loop to Keene.  I had to jump on CA 58 for a couple miles to reach Bena Road which I took west to Edison Highway.  From Edison Highway I entered Bakersfield and met CA 204 via Sumter Street.  My album includes some photos of CA 204 on Golden State Boulevard which I took last year out of simplicity.  I'll have a blog post in my US 466 series along with some detailed historic maps coming up this weekend:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmgy6t3A
Awesome pics!! Caltrans (or whoever) needs to sign that as Historic 466!! It looks like a fun road to drive. :)

Its definitely a lot more fun than slogging behind truckers and obnoxious drivers who don't understand what a mountain grade is.  I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been some sort of push by Kern County to do so at least with Woodford-Tehachapi Road.  The Tehachapi Loop seems to draw a lot of visitors on it's own and has signage from CA 58.  Now there is even a National Monument in the mix as well.  Reasonably the county does have a lot of opportunity for some historical signage along the former corridors of US 99 and US 466.  Strangely most of US 399 in Kern County is intact as part of CA 204 and CA 119.

Desert Man

The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

The interesting thing is that US 466 never touched 66 in Barstow.  466 was north of the Mojave River on what is now Old Highway 58 whereas 66 was Main Street.  US 91 connected the two routes via 1st Avenue.  US 466 did meet 66 in Kingman out in Arizona and was the first Route over the Hoover Dam before US 93 was extended. 

bugo

Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

Osage County is also the Osage Nation and the Osage Reservation. The Cherokee Nation is to the east of Osage County.

mrsman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2018, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

The interesting thing is that US 466 never touched 66 in Barstow.  466 was north of the Mojave River on what is now Old Highway 58 whereas 66 was Main Street.  US 91 connected the two routes via 1st Avenue.  US 466 did meet 66 in Kingman out in Arizona and was the first Route over the Hoover Dam before US 93 was extended.

That is correct.  On many maps, particularly those with a statewide or a national viewpoint*, it seems that 66-466 is a straight line, with 66 traffic making a left turn in Barstow to continue its way toward San Bernardino.  But this wasn't the case.  Max pointed out the pre-freeway routings that showed that 66 and 466 never crossed.  And even in the interstate era, I-40 met I-15 SOUTH of where old CA 58 met I-15.  As there is no direct ramp from I-40 west to I-15 north (or I-15 south to I-40 east), you needed to use Main Street to make the connection and then backtrack up I-15 to reach CA 58.  This was only rectified relatively recently with the 58 freeway completion that meets I-15 southwest of Barstow.  Now, I-40 traffic has a seemless connection with CA-58 traffic via a short stretch of I-15 through Barstow.

Which would make it easier to continue a potential I-40 (or CA-40) to Bakersfield and then to the coast after the rest of the upgrades of CA-58 take place.


* I would hope that given that the notion of a straight line 66-466 alignment was so prevalent on many maps, that in the pre-interstate era there was very good signage guiding traffic connecting between 66 and 466 to use 1st Ave.  And I believe there was.  For any who have read "The Grapes of Wrath" (or who lived it like Desert Man's grandfather) it seemed natural that the Mother Road could take you directly from OK to Bakersfield, even though yes, there were probably a few key turns to correctly follow the routing.  (The routing on 1st Ave and the famous left turn in Albuquerque among the most famous.)

For those who haven't read "Grapes of Wrath", here is a quote of his description of the migrants who took the highway.  If you had no knowledge of highways and just read from Steinbeck, it would seem that 66 would lead you directly to the San Joaquin Valley.

http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/sgramley/Highway%2066-Steinbeck.pdf


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on August 19, 2018, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2018, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

The interesting thing is that US 466 never touched 66 in Barstow.  466 was north of the Mojave River on what is now Old Highway 58 whereas 66 was Main Street.  US 91 connected the two routes via 1st Avenue.  US 466 did meet 66 in Kingman out in Arizona and was the first Route over the Hoover Dam before US 93 was extended.

That is correct.  On many maps, particularly those with a statewide or a national viewpoint*, it seems that 66-466 is a straight line, with 66 traffic making a left turn in Barstow to continue its way toward San Bernardino.  But this wasn't the case.  Max pointed out the pre-freeway routings that showed that 66 and 466 never crossed.  And even in the interstate era, I-40 met I-15 SOUTH of where old CA 58 met I-15.  As there is no direct ramp from I-40 west to I-15 north (or I-15 south to I-40 east), you needed to use Main Street to make the connection and then backtrack up I-15 to reach CA 58.  This was only rectified relatively recently with the 58 freeway completion that meets I-15 southwest of Barstow.  Now, I-40 traffic has a seemless connection with CA-58 traffic via a short stretch of I-15 through Barstow.

Which would make it easier to continue a potential I-40 (or CA-40) to Bakersfield and then to the coast after the rest of the upgrades of CA-58 take place.


* I would hope that given that the notion of a straight line 66-466 alignment was so prevalent on many maps, that in the pre-interstate era there was very good signage guiding traffic connecting between 66 and 466 to use 1st Ave.  And I believe there was.  For any who have read "The Grapes of Wrath" (or who lived it like Desert Man's grandfather) it seemed natural that the Mother Road could take you directly from OK to Bakersfield, even though yes, there were probably a few key turns to correctly follow the routing.  (The routing on 1st Ave and the famous left turn in Albuquerque among the most famous.)

For those who haven't read "Grapes of Wrath", here is a quote of his description of the migrants who took the highway.  If you had no knowledge of highways and just read from Steinbeck, it would seem that 66 would lead you directly to the San Joaquin Valley.

http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/sgramley/Highway%2066-Steinbeck.pdf

If I remember right wasn't Grapes of Wrath set an a non-specific point in time during the 1930s after the first Dust Bowl?  In theory that could set the story some time in 1934 or 1935. US 466 was commissioned by 1934 but I don't believe it was signed in California fully until 1935.  US 466 isn't featured on State Highway maps until 1936.  What interesting is that US 66 from the state line to Barstow and US 466 to Bakersfield we're both part of Legislative Route Number 58. 

mrsman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2018, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 19, 2018, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2018, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

The interesting thing is that US 466 never touched 66 in Barstow.  466 was north of the Mojave River on what is now Old Highway 58 whereas 66 was Main Street.  US 91 connected the two routes via 1st Avenue.  US 466 did meet 66 in Kingman out in Arizona and was the first Route over the Hoover Dam before US 93 was extended.

That is correct.  On many maps, particularly those with a statewide or a national viewpoint*, it seems that 66-466 is a straight line, with 66 traffic making a left turn in Barstow to continue its way toward San Bernardino.  But this wasn't the case.  Max pointed out the pre-freeway routings that showed that 66 and 466 never crossed.  And even in the interstate era, I-40 met I-15 SOUTH of where old CA 58 met I-15.  As there is no direct ramp from I-40 west to I-15 north (or I-15 south to I-40 east), you needed to use Main Street to make the connection and then backtrack up I-15 to reach CA 58.  This was only rectified relatively recently with the 58 freeway completion that meets I-15 southwest of Barstow.  Now, I-40 traffic has a seemless connection with CA-58 traffic via a short stretch of I-15 through Barstow.

Which would make it easier to continue a potential I-40 (or CA-40) to Bakersfield and then to the coast after the rest of the upgrades of CA-58 take place.


* I would hope that given that the notion of a straight line 66-466 alignment was so prevalent on many maps, that in the pre-interstate era there was very good signage guiding traffic connecting between 66 and 466 to use 1st Ave.  And I believe there was.  For any who have read "The Grapes of Wrath" (or who lived it like Desert Man's grandfather) it seemed natural that the Mother Road could take you directly from OK to Bakersfield, even though yes, there were probably a few key turns to correctly follow the routing.  (The routing on 1st Ave and the famous left turn in Albuquerque among the most famous.)

For those who haven't read "Grapes of Wrath", here is a quote of his description of the migrants who took the highway.  If you had no knowledge of highways and just read from Steinbeck, it would seem that 66 would lead you directly to the San Joaquin Valley.

http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/sgramley/Highway%2066-Steinbeck.pdf

If I remember right wasn't Grapes of Wrath set an a non-specific point in time during the 1930s after the first Dust Bowl?  In theory that could set the story some time in 1934 or 1935. US 466 was commissioned by 1934 but I don't believe it was signed in California fully until 1935.  US 466 isn't featured on State Highway maps until 1936.  What interesting is that US 66 from the state line to Barstow and US 466 to Bakersfield we're both part of Legislative Route Number 58.

Quite possible.  US 466 is not mentioned at all in the book.  Yet the migrants were still able to find their way from the Mother Road to Bakersfield with whatever signage existed.  It is unlikely that many of the Arkies and Okies were familiar with CA until the Dust Bowl forced them to get in their cars and drive.  I imagine they heard that CA was the place with fertile land and Bakersfield was the main town in the fertile parts of CA.  Likely, there was signage guiding them through Barstow toward Bakersfield, with or without reference to a highway number.  If the signage was really bad, perhaps they drove 66 all the way to Los Angeles and then backtracked up 99 to Bakersfield, but I highly doubt it.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on August 19, 2018, 02:38:05 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2018, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 19, 2018, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2018, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 18, 2018, 01:15:25 PM
The spike of US 66 took the "Okies" like my then 12 year old grandfather in the 1930s from Osage county (north of Tulsa, Cherokee Nation area, OK to the Kern county part of the San Joaquin valley. I been on CA SR 58 but my mother pointed out the former US 466 is the road takes you from the 66/91 (now I-15/40) junction in Barstow in the Mojave desert west into Bakersfield (US/CA SR 99).

The interesting thing is that US 466 never touched 66 in Barstow.  466 was north of the Mojave River on what is now Old Highway 58 whereas 66 was Main Street.  US 91 connected the two routes via 1st Avenue.  US 466 did meet 66 in Kingman out in Arizona and was the first Route over the Hoover Dam before US 93 was extended.

That is correct.  On many maps, particularly those with a statewide or a national viewpoint*, it seems that 66-466 is a straight line, with 66 traffic making a left turn in Barstow to continue its way toward San Bernardino.  But this wasn't the case.  Max pointed out the pre-freeway routings that showed that 66 and 466 never crossed.  And even in the interstate era, I-40 met I-15 SOUTH of where old CA 58 met I-15.  As there is no direct ramp from I-40 west to I-15 north (or I-15 south to I-40 east), you needed to use Main Street to make the connection and then backtrack up I-15 to reach CA 58.  This was only rectified relatively recently with the 58 freeway completion that meets I-15 southwest of Barstow.  Now, I-40 traffic has a seemless connection with CA-58 traffic via a short stretch of I-15 through Barstow.

Which would make it easier to continue a potential I-40 (or CA-40) to Bakersfield and then to the coast after the rest of the upgrades of CA-58 take place.


* I would hope that given that the notion of a straight line 66-466 alignment was so prevalent on many maps, that in the pre-interstate era there was very good signage guiding traffic connecting between 66 and 466 to use 1st Ave.  And I believe there was.  For any who have read "The Grapes of Wrath" (or who lived it like Desert Man's grandfather) it seemed natural that the Mother Road could take you directly from OK to Bakersfield, even though yes, there were probably a few key turns to correctly follow the routing.  (The routing on 1st Ave and the famous left turn in Albuquerque among the most famous.)

For those who haven't read "Grapes of Wrath", here is a quote of his description of the migrants who took the highway.  If you had no knowledge of highways and just read from Steinbeck, it would seem that 66 would lead you directly to the San Joaquin Valley.

http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/sgramley/Highway%2066-Steinbeck.pdf

If I remember right wasn't Grapes of Wrath set an a non-specific point in time during the 1930s after the first Dust Bowl?  In theory that could set the story some time in 1934 or 1935. US 466 was commissioned by 1934 but I don't believe it was signed in California fully until 1935.  US 466 isn't featured on State Highway maps until 1936.  What interesting is that US 66 from the state line to Barstow and US 466 to Bakersfield we're both part of Legislative Route Number 58.

Quite possible.  US 466 is not mentioned at all in the book.  Yet the migrants were still able to find their way from the Mother Road to Bakersfield with whatever signage existed.  It is unlikely that many of the Arkies and Okies were familiar with CA until the Dust Bowl forced them to get in their cars and drive.  I imagine they heard that CA was the place with fertile land and Bakersfield was the main town in the fertile parts of CA.  Likely, there was signage guiding them through Barstow toward Bakersfield, with or without reference to a highway number.  If the signage was really bad, perhaps they drove 66 all the way to Los Angeles and then backtracked up 99 to Bakersfield, but I highly doubt it.

I would imagine the signage was probably decent given it was still a state maintained highway.  What's interesting comparing the Division of Highways/Caltrans collection on David Rumsey is the huge difference in surface quality between 66 and 466.  66 by 1934 was realigned off the NOTR alignments in the Mojave and was completely paved.  466 between Barstow and Bakersfield wasn't even completely gravel or low level asphalt until 1938.  It wouldn't be too unreasonable to assume detours a recently built new alignment of the Ridge Route on US 99.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCaltrans%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=5632%2C7637%2C1970%2C4066

Max Rockatansky

#16
Another wrinkle to this story is the 1935 California Division of Highways Map of Kern County.  The traffic count on US 466 east of Bakersfield was largely 100-500 cars a day up to 500-1,000.  US 99 on the Ridge Route at the same time was posting 2,000-3,500 vehicles a day.  100-1,000 doesn't sound like a lot but that probably sure put a beating on a dirt/gravel version of US 466:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26bs%3D10%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCalifornia%2520division%2520of%2520highways%2520%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=8613%2C1382%2C1592%2C3285

andy3175

Agentsteel and I spent a weekend traveling old 466 in the westbound direction. A few years ago, we posted photos from that trip:

https://www.aaroads.com/california/us-466_ca.html
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: andy3175 on October 16, 2018, 11:49:28 PM
Agentsteel and I spent a weekend traveling old 466 in the westbound direction. A few years ago, we posted photos from that trip:

https://www.aaroads.com/california/us-466_ca.html

At some point in the relatively near future I'll have the CA 41/CA 229 segments up that were originally part of US 466.  I have pretty much all the photos I need and we had at length discussion in a previous thread.  I'm looking at making some new historical maps for US 466 west of Shandon to Morro Bay.



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