My wife and I are pretty much obligated to attend a wedding next month, and I was curious who has been on a flight recently? What's it like now?
We're well aware we need to mask up, but have your flights been full? Long TSA lines?
I flew back in November. The TSA lines were a lot shorter than usual, and the person checking my ID had me take my mask off for a moment so she could see my face. (I held my breath while doing it.)
The airline didn't sell middle seats; the seats they were selling were pretty full - in other words, the plane was almost 2/3 of normal capacity. The flight attendants were insistent on proper mask-wearing, and had me pull mine down over my chin even though I really don't think it made a real difference given that it covered my mouth.
Yes, back in July. It went fine; it was a lot quieter than usual, with not a lot of restaurants open in the airports, and the planes only about 1/2 to 2/3 full. Other than that and the mask-wearing, it felt weird, like everything during COVID, but nothing was exceptionally different or surprising.
We're flying Portland-Atlanta on Delta. I don't *think* they sell middle seats.
Feel I know the answer but probably no beverage or food service?
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 22, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Feel I know the answer but probably no beverage or food service?
There actually was on the flights I was on, but there was no choices: everyone got a baggie with a snack and a water bottle.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 22, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Feel I know the answer but probably no beverage or food service?
Southwest was passing out wrapped packages of snacks when I flew SMF-HNL and OAK-HNL within the last couple months (a bag of Wheat Thins with some dip, a little bag of fruit chews). Only beverage was water though; sadly the opportunity to pay $8.50 for 12 oz. of beer is gone for now.
SMF-HNL was pretty empty, about 30-35 passengers on a 175-seat 737-800 each way. OAK-HNL well over 100 passengers each way; middle seats were taken but most often by families.
The in-airport experience was delightful in all cases. No lines anywhere for baggage check or security, just walk straight up to the desk. I'd note that a LOT of in-airport businesses are closed so eat beforehand, don't count on grabbing anything significant in the airport.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 22, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
We’re flying Portland-Atlanta on Delta. I don’t *think* they sell middle seats.
Feel I know the answer but probably no beverage or food service?
I've flown twenty times round-trip; on the longer flights (I flew ATL-SEA in June/July on Delta) the only food service is a little plastic bag with water, cookies, and crackers. They offer soda, beer, and wine...but no coffee. American Airlines and United have offered coffee and some snacks in coach, though I've only flown on their regional airlines' subsidiaries since last June. In First Class, there's no meals, but a slightly larger array of boxed snacks, with Delta and United as personal examples. Regional cabin service can run from very limited to pretty good (considering those tiny pressurized tubes), but it's always been a mixed bag.
Food is limited at all airports, and those take-out lines seem a little longer because of it. Many of the newsstands have shuttered up, so there may not be one right by your desired gate. Smaller airports are usually devoid of food choices. I suggest packing your own snacks and a light meal. I waited 30 minutes just to place an order with Whataburger in Houston, and another 10-15 minutes to have it cooked, but I had a 90 minute layover with minimal transit distance, so it worked out.
Delta has blocked middle seats on three-across seating, but they will they will permit seating together if you're travelling as a family on the same itinerary. If the aircraft has two-across seating (Boeing 717, Airbus A220, and regional jets), they've randomly decided which side of the plane has blocked-off seats at the time of booking, so about 75% would be considered full. First Class seating is usually 2-2, so they just seat one passenger per two-seat-block.
I'm told that Southwest isn't blocking it any longer (unless it's open, which means nothing has really changed). American and United will sell every last seat on the jet; admittedly, I've been on some regional jets with 7-8 passengers but some destinations have been on the fuller side.
TSA has been back to full strength in most places, and short lines have been the one advantage out of all the missing amenities and services, weaker flight choices, and the concern with falling ill. Most people are somewhat aware of your space, but the automatic tendency for passengers to crowd together has eased a lot of the last several months. With less passengers, I've been upgraded slightly more than usual (for example, basic/mid-tier loyalty with United has given me as many upgrades as high-tier with Delta), though United doesn't usually block off First Class seats.
Nope. My daughter was a contact tracer up until a month ago (switched over to scheduling vaccinations). The number of people who fly while either unknowingly or even knowingly infected with the coronavirus was a lot higher than you'd think.
One case she had was an elderly woman who refused to give her flight number after she brought the virus with her to the Northeast from Florida. Daughter got her to narrow it down to where they could ID the flight, though.
I flew once one way from Flint, MI to Sanford, FL and there were only 6 people on the flight. This was back in March of last year about ten days after all the shutdowns.
I've flown a few times, once over the summer to see my aunt who had terminal cancer (she managed to beat it and is doing much better, and she hasn't contracted Covid!), and a few times since the fall to visit my wife and kids. My wife is working as a travel nurse in Florida, and for various reasons she has our toddler and teenage daughter with her, while our oldest son is home with me. I flew Southwest down there a few weeks ago, and my wife and kids have been back on Spirit or Allegiant a few times.
The planes definitely seem cleaner than they used to. Mask enforcement varies from a couple announcements at the beginning of the flight and essentially ignored after that to patrolling the aisles and calling out anyone letting it slip. Don't count on snacks or beverages, but Spirit and Allegiant charged for them long before Covid anyway. I think Southwest was only giving out bottled water with their snack mix, no sodas or anything else. There's lots of hand sanitizer in the airport, and you can bring it with you in your carry-on as well, up to 9 oz.
I haven't gotten sick yet (that I know of), and despite the reputation of cabin air as stale and recycled, it's actually fresh and filtered well, moreso than in any restaurant or other indoor space. If you keep your mask or masks on and wash/sanitize your hands often, and skip the drinks and snacks, you should be at minimal risk. That said, I don't have a medical degree, I don't work at the CDC, and I don't even know anyone named Fauci, so please refer to official guidelines and talk with your doctor for professional guidance.
I flew once to Minneapolis for my cousin's funeral in late April. No middle seats at the time. No TSA line (at DEN!). Flew a super weird routing on the way back due to all the cancellations (Minneapolis-Green Bay-Denver).
Chris
Make sure to comply with the 14-day quarantine if it is required in a state you deplane in. Not doing so is reckless and irresponsible.
I'm not setting foot inside a plane (as much as I want to) until we're at herd immunity. At current pace, it shouldn't be too long.
All really good information, thank you!
I think we'll definitely eat a big meal before, sounds like the terminal is hit or Miss on what's open.
I flew in August and again in January. Most of my planes were on the fuller side, no blocked seats (United and American in August, Alaska and Southwest in January). Good compliance of masks and other precautions though, both on board and in the airports. TSA lines short (<5 minutes). I had no issue finding food/snacks in any of the airport terminals I've looked for it. For example McDonalds was open at both PDX and MCO. Food/snack service onboard was reduced but not eliminated, and varied by airline. At minimum water was available, sometimes soda and other options were available too. Typical snacks like pretzels were still handed out.
Bring food and water. A lot of smaller airports only have one or two shops and things open, which can get crowded.
Everyone on my flights have been wearing masks and stuff. I upgrade myself to N95 on flights just to feel a little better.
The reality is that commercial planes use HEPA filters and a re very good at circulating air. It's a pretty virus-safe way to travel-once you get in the tube.
Quote from: Bruce on February 22, 2021, 05:39:35 PM
I'm not setting foot inside a plane (as much as I want to) until we're at herd immunity. At current pace, it shouldn't be too long.
I'd be a little bit on edge flying on a plane, but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable riding on a long-distance bus at all these days. And I have a relatively high risk tolerance compared to many people. How is Greyhound even staying in business?
Quote from: doorknob60 on February 22, 2021, 06:40:27 PM
Good compliance of masks ...
By this point, everyone's seen enough social media videos of passengers fighting with staff. They all end with the passenger being escorted/dragged off the plane. I can't imagine most people would want to be the 'star' of the next such video–regardless of their personal opinion of mask requirements.
Quote from: ahj2000 on February 23, 2021, 09:32:32 AM
The reality is that commercial planes use HEPA filters and a re very good at circulating air. It's a pretty virus-safe way to travel-once you get in the tube.
Anyone considering flying should watch this video:
We took a family vacation to Colorado in August and flew Midway to Denver round trip. That was at a time when there was a valley in infection rates in between the Spring and Winter peaks. It was also when the airlines were leaving middle seats open.
We would not have been willing to fly again after about November 1, and will not again until I'm able to get vaccinated (my wife has already).
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend. I have a nephew getting married in early April and I'm not going. My life and health outweigh anybody else's sense of being entitled to my presence.
I had just arrived in Portland, Oregon, for a conference last March when things were starting to be cancelled. I flew back early when the conference was cut short. At the time, few had masks to wear even if they wanted to, and the guidance was telling us they were useless anyway. The most memorable part was the SWA flight attendant observing everyone wiping down seats and tray tables who said something like "please feel free to clean the area around your seat, but I can say I've been doing this for 20 years and I've never flown on a cleaner airplane than the one you're on".
We flew to Florida to buy a car to drive home in July, when things were pretty good in the northeast but Florida was having more infections. No issues on the plane, but there were some people at the airport in Albany and many people at the airport in St. Pete who didn't wear masks. We did not have close encounters with any of them. At the time there was still more question about surface transmission, so we did a lot of wiping down. Also since the trip was really quick (back in states not on NY's quarantine list in under 24 hours) we felt the risk was low and we avoided a required quarantine. We still avoided contacts for 10 days or so "out of an abundance of caution".
We drove to FL between Christmas and New Years, very confident that our contacts were limited and almost all outdoor. So we were probably subject to a lot less potential exposure than we would have had staying around home and going to grocery stores and in the ski lodge. I don't think we would have flown at that time, though, not because of the airplanes themselves but all of the indoor contacts in airports, etc.
At this point, it's easy for me to say I'd fly again because I'm over 2 weeks past shot 2. If wasn't, I'd probably wait a bit longer.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in
his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to
get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
I thought the point of all internet forums were to admonish those via holier-than-thou judgments?
Quote from: SectorZ on February 23, 2021, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
I thought the point of all internet forums were to admonish those via holier-than-thou judgments?
Oops. My bad. I really should read the terms and conditions when I subscribe to stuff.
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on February 23, 2021, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
I thought the point of all internet forums were to admonish those via holier-than-thou judgments?
Oops. My bad. I really should read the terms and conditions when I subscribe to stuff.
:-D
Quote from: SectorZ on February 23, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on February 23, 2021, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
I thought the point of all internet forums were to admonish those via holier-than-thou judgments?
Oops. My bad. I really should read the terms and conditions when I subscribe to stuff.
:-D
It's all good, I didn't take offense, and everyone can have their opinions. In my situation, it's my wife's sister so its mostly the wife insistent on going 😄
I flew about 3 weeks ago. Flew down on a Friday to MCO via Southwest, direct flight from Philly. Plane was 100% full. Everyone wore masks and appeared to cooperate. On the way home, plane was about 80% full. There must have been one bad boy on the plane, because halfway thru the flight they made an announcement that masks are mandatory by virtue of federal law, and if you don't heed the flight attendants' warnings, when we land you will be escorted off the plane. I guess that person was closer to the back of the plane because I never heard or saw anything that would warrant a warning.
In both PHL and MCO, TSA lines were reasonably short. People weren't staying 6 feet apart in any line. The process was pretty much normal. After security, we went to our gate area. Some people were eating/drinking as normal. We didn't, to limit the time without our masks on, and so we wouldn't have the urge to use the bathroom on the plane.
My wife doesn't like flying to begin with, and was ready to kill me especially when we found out the plane was full. I, on the other hand, wasn't so bothered by it. The plane itself was cleaner than any other plane I've seen, and I felt comfortable and safe, more so than other places I've been.
Overall, I would do it again if I had to. But, that said, I don't plan on it anytime soon.
I flew back in October. The number of passengers was clearly down, but it wasn't too much different other than wearing a mask and the airlines only serving water.
I'm not a flyer, but my brother flew to Vegas back in December (to go on a hiking trip in the Grand Canyon) and he said the plane wasn't crowded at all.
Interesting to read the comments about restaurants being closed in airports. Several weeks ago, Kentucky's governor instituted another "no indoor dining" order so restaurants were closed. However, I saw several reports of the restaurants at CVG being open. So you couldn't go to whichever chili place that's set up at CVG (Gold Star or Skyline) at a standalone location, but you could go to the airport and eat.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 23, 2021, 04:27:53 PM
Interesting to read the comments about restaurants being closed in airports. Several weeks ago, Kentucky's governor instituted another "no indoor dining" order so restaurants were closed. However, I saw several reports of the restaurants at CVG being open. So you couldn't go to whichever chili place that's set up at CVG (Gold Star or Skyline) at a standalone location, but you could go to the airport and eat.
That's true in spirit, but it wouldn't exactly work that way in practice. Most airport restaurants are inside security, so you'd have to have a flight booked and get through security in order to get to the restaurant.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 23, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 23, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
its mostly the wife
Way to shirk the onus! :awesomeface:
Marriage 101 😂
Your job at the wedding will be to make sure the new brother-in-law is informed of all those rules. :-D
I should also mention that most airports have a bit more breathing space, but some terminals seem to be just as packed as before. The scheduling of flights is packed together to consolidate ground crew working hours more efficiently, so some regional jet areas are packed up. That does bother me a lot, as people are more apt to chit-chat, eat/drink, and lower/misuse their masks more frequently.
Fortunately, more terminal gate space is unused, and if you don't mind a little walk (say, 5-10 minutes) one can find places to be left mostly alone even in the busiest of hubs. An app on your phone can now alert you when they're boarding the plane, and I don't really mind being one of the last to get onboard if I use the extra time to shuffle on down to the gate.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 23, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 23, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
its mostly the wife
Way to shirk the onus! :awesomeface:
Marriage 101
Oh, and this too! :-D
My
wife and kids* want me to get more airline miles and keep the associated frequent flyer status going; though I think the latter doesn't mean as much right now...I'd just like to keep my job and provide for them, and I dread 7-10 hours of harsh winter driving.
* Okay, that wasn't fair, but my wife and daughter got spoiled by flying first class, and my son didn't really notice the difference.
Yes.
St. Louis to San Diego in July 2020. Southwest both ways. They were blocking middle seats at the time (they stopped in December). Both flights were booked to about 80 percent of available capacity (90 out of 175 total seats on the plane).
St Louis to Chicago-O'Hare to Aspen and back (same routing) in November 2020. American. They weren't blocking middles and haven't done so since July. STL-ORD and ORD-STL were both booked 90% full, with most middles filled. ORD-ASE and ASE-ORD were both about half full.
Both airlines I felt perfectly safe.
Over spring break, I'm flying STL-SLC and back. Outbound on Delta, return on Southwest. Delta is blocking middles through the end of April; they're the only US airline currently doing so. Delta currently looks to only have 30 people on the whole flight.
Flew Allegiant for $ 29 from CVG to New Orleans in September. At CVG McDonald's was open but as mentioned there were places closed or operating restricted hours. I rode Amtrak the next day to Atlanta and Greyhound overnight back to Cincinnati for a cheap three day weekend. For KPHogger, I was impressed with Greyhound, the terminal in Atlanta was clean, including the restrooms and the bus was cleaner then I've ever seen. Our driver Mr McDowell took good care making sure everyone had their masks on. Had one woman who was either MRDD or intoxicated that he had to really call out but was he finally able to get her to comply. Greyhound and Amtrak only sold the window seats. OTOH Allegiant was packed completely full, but clean. On all three no one felt out of place wiping down surfaces. I brought my own wipes and even let a couple other passengers take some.
November I flew United from CVG to SFO for another long weekend. All four planes were clean and United handed out packages with a bottle of water, pretzels and peanuts and some high test sanitizer wipes. United also offered beverage service but instead of pouring your Apple Cranberry into the cup and keeping the can they simply handed you the cup of ice and the whole can. I flew through DEN going, coming back I had the choice of connecting at Ohare, IAH or IAD so I chose Dulles, just to say I flew across the United States. It happened to be the Friday night when the Trump supporters came to Washington for the post election rally. The flight crew made warnings then dire warnings about the masks, which they finally got everyone to comply. The other thing was they did not want people walking about the aircraft other then to use the toilets. Ah, yes, for all four United flights they asked people to stay seated until the toilet was empty so as not have a lineup form. Out of all the flying and all five airports I was in the only place I felt uncomfortable was on that stupid rubber tired 'Thing' that goes between the terminals at Dulles. They got it rather full I thought but of course for part of the terminals there is no other way to reach them without riding the 'Thing.'
I drive a bus and didn't take any time off in 2020 so the long weekend trips were a great mental boost to me. Just wash your hands whenever you can and enjoy your trip!
Jim
Only flew once: late June between SEA and IND, and then in early July, IAD to SEA.
For various reasons, I only fly Alaska. It was an excellent experience. No middle seat usage and although food options were limited, drinks were not. I remember having a coffee, soda, and water. Booze was available as well.
I have faced two opportunities to fly since (November, and then just a few weeks ago), both of which I declined. The first because cases were soaring around Thanksgiving, and the second because I didn't want to interfere with the timeline to receive my second COVID vaccine.
My co-worker's husband (our former boss), since he left this company, has had a job for which he travels on business. The business he works for now does installations in large hotels, and he's been everywhere from California to Florida to DC to Denver, and smaller cities besides such as Rolla, MO. Sometimes he's there for days, overseeing the work or fixing things, and sometimes the project's not even ready yet and he flies home the next day. I'm guessing he's probably flown for two dozen projects since COVID started.
From what I hear from his wife, the experience varies by airline quite a bit. Some block the middle seats, others book full airplanes. Some don't hand out any snacks at all, others give you a napkin and sanitizing wipe along with it. So I'm not sure there's a blanket "this is what flying is like now" answer, as it will depend on the airline you book with.
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I'm not sure why you feel obligated to attend.
Who are you to judge? For all you know, this is the most important day in the life of the most important person in his life. Can this thread not just be about what it's like to fly now, rather than guilt-tripping people who don't agree with us? especially onsidering how safe air travel is reported to be.
(For what it's worth, I know people who were severely disappointed in either {a} not having people at their wedding or {b} not being able to attend a wedding. I also know someone who was kind of happy that she could use COVID as an excuse to get out of attending an out-of-state wedding. :))
Please, very much this. We have not flown anywhere since December 2019, prior to the pandemic, but we are hoping to be able to travel to the Miami area for our nephew's high school graduation later this spring and we are facing a conundrum of how to get there (if we go at all), so I very much appreciate hearing about everyone's experiences with flying. We're torn between driving the whole way, flying both ways (likely Southwest into FLL or RSW) and renting a car, or taking the Auto Train either one or both ways.
My dad and I are driving down to Florida (with the four-legged kids) from Michigan on Friday and Saturday. My mom and sister are flying down on Saturday for the first time since last March. I might have to fly back to Michigan solo depending on a potential start date/method at a new job I've been offered. (Side note: I haven't flown at all since 2018)
Last year, my mom and sister flew home just before the shutdowns and there were no masks or distancing then. Captain Hindsight would say it was more dangerous to fly last year just before the shutdowns than it is now.
I recently returned from a BWI-DEN roundtrip via Southwest, and the whole experience was less different than I was expecting. BWI security had you scan your ID yourself, and Southwest modified their boarding into lining up groups of 10 at a time versus the entire letter group (for those of you who've flown Southwest, you know how inherently not-socially-distant their normal boarding process is :-D). The flight out was entirely full (which I suspect may have been due to rebooked passengers trying to get to TX), and the return was mostly-but-not-entirely full. In-flight, Southwest gave us a cup of ice-water (with no other drink options) and a snack bag that closely resembled Chex Mix.
It seemed like people were largely compliant with airport/airline regulations from what I could see, but crowding was inevitable in spots like parking/rental car shuttles, security, baggage claim (had long waits for luggage after both flights), and the DEN concourse train (and by extension, everyone heading up the escalators at the same time after getting off the train, which was also compounded by terminal construction).
I'll throw out the disclaimer that we probably would have been paying more attention to our surroundings as they relate to COVID, but since we've already had it and my now-fiancée (did it during this trip! :D) is since-vaccinated, we weren't really nervous about or bothered by anything. The experience certainly will differ by airport & airline as others have pointed out, but as far as our experience we've always liked Southwest and both BWI & DEN have well-designed, spacious concourses.
Nope and I'm not going to until I get fully vaccinated.
I'll be flying for the first time since 2018 next week. Flying MCO-GRR on Southwest on the 11th and GRR-MCO on Frontier on the 12th. I've flown Southwest before a handful of times, but I've never flown Frontier. I'll be traveling extremely light (as in just toiletries) as it's just an up and back in order for me to take a pre-employment physical/drug test for a new job I'm starting at the end of this month. My family is currently on vacation in Florida and I drove down with my dad and the dogs and we're doing the drive back a few days before I start my new job.
Flew from O'Hare to Colorado and back last month.
Quote from: gonealookin on February 22, 2021, 04:03:02 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 22, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Feel I know the answer but probably no beverage or food service?
Southwest was passing out wrapped packages of snacks when I flew SMF-HNL and OAK-HNL within the last couple months (a bag of Wheat Thins with some dip, a little bag of fruit chews). Only beverage was water though; sadly the opportunity to pay $8.50 for 12 oz. of beer is gone for now.
SMF-HNL was pretty empty, about 30-35 passengers on a 175-seat 737-800 each way. OAK-HNL well over 100 passengers each way; middle seats were taken but most often by families.
The in-airport experience was delightful in all cases. No lines anywhere for baggage check or security, just walk straight up to the desk. I'd note that a LOT of in-airport businesses are closed so eat beforehand, don't count on grabbing anything significant in the airport.
Following up on this, I just did a round trip between Sacramento and Fort Lauderdale and the experience is definitely bearing a close resemblance to the pre-pandemic normal. With a connection each way, 3 of the 4 flights were 90%-100% full. On the Hawai'i flights I knew the passengers going over there had to have a negative test within 72 hours to avoid quarantine but obviously that bit of security is absent with the 48 states. The airports are all quite crowded now and most of the inside-security businesses are open.
United hands out a little snack bag with a bottle of water and hands you the full unopened can of soda with a cup of ice. Still no alcohol for sale on the plane.
The 1 of the 4 flights that was only about 40% full was on a 737 MAX. Maybe coincidence, maybe not. It made me wonder if people are leery about flying on the 737 MAX after they sat grounded for nearly 2 years while Boeing addressed the issues, but are willing to take their chances with Covid on a full airplane. That might be an error in risk assessment. I haven't read anything about low passenger loads on 737 MAX flights so maybe it was just that flight.
I flew into Puerto Rico last Saturday on United and JetBlue (PHX-DEN-MCO-BQN). My return will be on the 24th on BQN-MCO-IAH-PHX.
Quote from: ftballfan on March 03, 2021, 02:27:39 PM
I'll be flying for the first time since 2018 next week. Flying MCO-GRR on Southwest on the 11th and GRR-MCO on Frontier on the 12th. I've flown Southwest before a handful of times, but I've never flown Frontier. I'll be traveling extremely light (as in just toiletries) as it's just an up and back in order for me to take a pre-employment physical/drug test for a new job I'm starting at the end of this month. My family is currently on vacation in Florida and I drove down with my dad and the dogs and we're doing the drive back a few days before I start my new job.
My flight up on the 11th had only 38 passengers on a 737NG and I had a row to myself. However, it was a midweek morning departure out of MCO. Side note: the flight heading back south that day on that same plane from GRR (to Fort Myers) appeared to have much more than 38 people judging from the number of people at the gate.
Flying back on the 12th, my flight was a little more full (maybe between 80 to 100 on an A320), but there were still plenty of empty seats.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 16, 2021, 04:41:01 AM
I flew into Puerto Rico last Saturday on United and JetBlue (PHX-DEN-MCO-BQN). My return will be on the 24th on BQN-MCO-IAH-PHX.
Quite the journey. But it's not like Aguadilla is the most accessible airport around.
Quote from: STLmapboy on April 18, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 16, 2021, 04:41:01 AM
I flew into Puerto Rico last Saturday on United and JetBlue (PHX-DEN-MCO-BQN). My return will be on the 24th on BQN-MCO-IAH-PHX.
Quite the journey. But it's not like Aguadilla is the most accessible airport around.
I was originally supposed to fly United on PHX-EWR-BQN and back, but United postponed their restart date for BQN until May, which I do not want. I wanted to travel those particular two weeks in April, so I rebooked the United ticket to MCO and booked a separate ticket on JetBlue to BQN. My United ticket was booked with Wells Fargo points.
I've taken four round trips by airplane in the past year, all of them purely for pleasure. Rented a car and spent a week roadgeeking on the far end.
I don't think it's really a big deal and have been happy to take advantage of flights and hotels being cheap. You have to wear a mask the whole time but compliance with this in my experience has been quite good. I've also been in the habit of making sure the air nozzle is blowing directly at my face the whole time (having that mix of fresh and filtered air be the bulk of what I'm inhaling is good for risk mitigation).
Quote from: Rothman on February 22, 2021, 04:08:13 PM
Nope. My daughter was a contact tracer up until a month ago (switched over to scheduling vaccinations). The number of people who fly while either unknowingly or even knowingly infected with the coronavirus was a lot higher than you'd think.
One case she had was an elderly woman who refused to give her flight number after she brought the virus with her to the Northeast from Florida. Daughter got her to narrow it down to where they could ID the flight, though.
lol so much for all these precautions!! but it made people feel good.
Here are the loads on my flights during spring break. Salt Lake is close to pre-pandemic levels, it feels like. The place was hopping.
March 14, Delta, STL-SLC, A220-300 (130 seats). Delta is the only airline blocking middles (through the 30th of April). Slightly less than 100 seats available, and everyone one was taken. So, technically, 100% full.
March 20, Southwest SLC-STL, 737-700 (143 seats). Southwest is not blocking seats. We were around 85% full and delayed 2 hours for a mechanical issue. I sat next to a guy connecting onward to San Antonio; we saw his plane taxiing to the runway as we pulled into the gate in STL.
Quote from: gonealookin on April 15, 2021, 09:07:20 PM
The 1 of the 4 flights that was only about 40% full was on a 737 MAX. Maybe coincidence, maybe not. It made me wonder if people are leery about flying on the 737 MAX after they sat grounded for nearly 2 years while Boeing addressed the issues, but are willing to take their chances with Covid on a full airplane. That might be an error in risk assessment. I haven't read anything about low passenger loads on 737 MAX flights so maybe it was just that flight.
I had a chance to be on a 737 MAX 9 last week, but United swapped it out for a 737-800 on the SMF-DEN leg the day before. I'm supposed to fly on one tomorrow or next Friday. I forget what the capacity was, but it appeared about 80% full as of last Monday, whereas the swapped out one was a "full flight" according to the flight leader. (It's been a long time since I'd heard that phrase.) So it's possible they just swapped it out in the name of balancing passenger loads; if they can mitigate risk or sell more seats on another destination, I suppose they'd do what makes the nest financial sense.
United also gives the option to swap out your itinerary if you're not inclined to fly on a 737 MAX, but I have no idea how they'd rebook you if it's not a common route with available options.
Quote from: formulanone on April 18, 2021, 07:48:27 PM
United also gives the option to swap out your itinerary if you're not inclined to fly on a 737 MAX, but I have no idea how they'd rebook you if it's not a common route with available options.
I have a DEN-ANC flight that's currently booked on a MAX. Unfortunately any switches would add at least three hours of flight time.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 19, 2021, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 18, 2021, 07:48:27 PM
United also gives the option to swap out your itinerary if you're not inclined to fly on a 737 MAX, but I have no idea how they'd rebook you if it's not a common route with available options.
I have a DEN-ANC flight that's currently booked on a MAX. Unfortunately any switches would add at least three hours of flight time.
Chris
As of this afternoon, I can live to tell about my flight on a 737 MAX 9. There's not much to say; it's just another 737, from the interior look and feel of things.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126405004_befa9490f6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTSbZs)
Flight was nearly-full, from what I could tell. I didn't get a look at the final seat map, since I'd chosen my seat an noted they didn't switch out the aircraft type. They did not seem to make mention of it being a "MAX" at the gate, and didn't mention it when boarding nor during the safety demonstration.
The only oddity was that they asked passengers to refrain from using the included charging ports during takeoff and landing procedures, but they didn't seem to enforce it in any meaningful way. They mentioned it once before we backed away from the gate, and I suppose the flight crew doesn't want
one more thing to police.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 19, 2021, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 18, 2021, 07:48:27 PM
United also gives the option to swap out your itinerary if you're not inclined to fly on a 737 MAX, but I have no idea how they'd rebook you if it's not a common route with available options.
I have a DEN-ANC flight that's currently booked on a MAX. Unfortunately any switches would add at least three hours of flight time.
Chris
I thought the 737 MAX 9 (which was United, IAH-FLL) was a really nice airplane. The overhead bins are enormous; in fact you're directed to put your carryon bag in on its side, and my 20x14x9 went in with room to spare. I see I have a Southwest 737 MAX 8 on the schedule in May (DEN-SMF) so I'll see if I like Southwest's version as much. I don't have the least bit of hesitation about flying the MAX; if the pilots' union wasn't satisfied with the safety corrections there wouldn't be anybody making announcements from the flight deck, and hell, I survived plenty of DC-10 flights back in the day (they didn't have the greatest reputation).
Man, I really need to schedule a passport appointment, because mine expired in January. I was thinking of offering to help my friends move their stuff from a storage shed here in Wichita to a storage shed in Del Rio (TX), but then I realized I don't have any ID that could let me board a plane back home again.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 09:19:45 AM
Man, I really need to schedule a passport appointment, because mine expired in January. I was thinking of offering to help my friends move their stuff from a storage shed here in Wichita to a storage shed in Del Rio (TX), but then I realized I don't have any ID that could let me board a plane back home again.
Kansas licenses still not Real ID?
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 20, 2021, 10:21:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 09:19:45 AM
Man, I really need to schedule a passport appointment, because mine expired in January. I was thinking of offering to help my friends move their stuff from a storage shed here in Wichita to a storage shed in Del Rio (TX), but then I realized I don't have any ID that could let me board a plane back home again.
Kansas licenses still not Real ID?
Last time I got mine renewed, I was missing a form, so I couldn't get a Real ID. I didn't worry about that, because I can always use my passport instead. Well, now I'm stuck without a valid passport for the first time since–well, gosh, since I first got one in junior high, I guess.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 11:30:31 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 20, 2021, 10:21:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 09:19:45 AM
Man, I really need to schedule a passport appointment, because mine expired in January. I was thinking of offering to help my friends move their stuff from a storage shed here in Wichita to a storage shed in Del Rio (TX), but then I realized I don't have any ID that could let me board a plane back home again.
Kansas licenses still not Real ID?
Last time I got mine renewed, I was missing a form, so I couldn't get a Real ID. I didn't worry about that, because I can always use my passport instead. Well, now I'm stuck without a valid passport for the first time since–well, gosh, since I first got one in junior high, I guess.
The Real ID deadline was extended to Oct 1st 2021 because of Covid, so you're good for now. My wife had the same problem when she got her ID renewed, and we haven't fixed it yet, haven't had any trouble traveling (we flew in January).
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 20, 2021, 02:59:24 PM
The Real ID deadline was extended to Oct 1st 2021 ...
Aw, nice!
I had a similar problem getting a Real ID. My license expired at the end of February, so beginning of February I went into my safe to try to find my birth certificate...nothing there. So that means my mom has it. I call her up, she puts off going through her safe, finally comes over around Valentine's Day...with the hospital birth certificate, not the official state one. She says she's never had an official state one for me. So by this point I've got like a week left, and no birth certificate. I go to look up how to get a replacement birth certificate...and requesting one requires a copy of a valid driver license, which is what I'm trying to get by getting a birth certificate in the first place!
Real ID has the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety all jacked up. Even though in Oklahoma, you go to a private tag agent rather than standing in line at the state offices, they all still have to interface with the DPS computer system, and that system is slow as hell, to the point that doing a driver license renewal takes 30 minutes (just to complete and submit the paperwork, you get your physical card in the mail). The first tag agent I went to said they open up at 6am sharp, first come first served, get there at 6 and hope you manage to get a slot sometime that day to do your license. The second tag agent I went to had a sign up that just said "WE AREN'T DOING ANY MORE DRIVER LICENSE RENEWALS TODAY." I called the tag agent down in Goldsby, figuring there would be less demand, but they had an appointment system set up and were booked all the way through March.
Fortunately, I found out that you can do non-Real ID renewals through the mail, so I did that. There was an online form you had to fill out, which required attaching a new photo according to the DPS guidelines. I did that on February 26, and my new license didn't arrive until March 22. And, despite having a fancy new DL design introduced at the time they did Real ID, they sent an exact copy of my old license, with the old design and the old photo, just the expiration date changed and "NOT VALID FOR REAL ID PURPOSES" in the corner.
So yeah, if anyone's wondering, the rest of the Oklahoma government is not any better than ODOT.
Do airlines have passengers sit next to each other during covid?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 09:33:07 PM
Do airlines have passengers sit next to each other during covid?
Yes, at least within the US. And there are more infected people flying than you might think. Some family friends of ours came down with Covid after returning from a trip, and they're 99% sure they got it from the crowded plane. Personally I'm planning to avoid flying until I'm vaccinated.
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2021, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 09:33:07 PM
Do airlines have passengers sit next to each other during covid?
Yes, at least within the US. And there are more infected people flying than you might think. Some family friends of ours came down with Covid after returning from a trip, and they're 99% sure they got it from the crowded plane. Personally I'm planning to avoid flying until I'm vaccinated.
Me too. They should at least block off the middle seat.
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
Have been going indoors for essential reasons.
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:22:26 PM
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
People are stupid and selfish.
The Real ID deadline extension made no difference in Utah, because by the time the feds announced that, the state had already paid to make new, Real ID-compliant licenses with the little gold star on them for anyone whose old license was going to expire after the original deadline.
I was one of those. My drivers license at the start of 2020 was issued back in January 2016, and was actually one of the last issued with the old, non-Real ID compliant design (they switched to the new design in June 2016). At the time, a Utah drivers license was valid for five years, so it was set to expire in January 2021. Since that was after the original federal Real ID deadline of October 2020, the state mailed me a compliant license with the new design at some point last summer. Of course, it was only valid for about 6 months, and I had to actually renew by January... so I had three separate licenses over a span of about six months.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:22:26 PM
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
People are stupid and selfish.
Or, well, people respond to the incentives they are given, even if they are perverse.
Say, for example, you're on vacation and you decide to go to get tested before flying home in order to comply with your home state's travel rules. You feel fine, but surprise! Your test comes back positive. You now have two options:
1) Reschedule your flight, extend your car rental (if you have one), and spend the next two weeks locked in a hotel room, all on your own dime. Oh and if you didn't think to bring your work laptop with you, you may have to either lose two weeks of pay or burn an extra two weeks of vacation time.
2) Go ahead and get on your flight home anyway, just don't say anything to anyone about having tested positive, and then when you get home just stay home for the next two weeks and comply with the travel rules that way.
While option 1 is certainly the preferred one for the sake of public health, the fact of the matter is that option 1 costs the affected individual a significant sum of their own money, while option 2 likely costs the affected individual nothing since no US jurisdiction other than Hawaii has been imposing legal penalties against people for doing this. Thus, a lot of people will chose option 2 in order to save themselves what could easily be a four-figure sum of money. And while it may be tempting to deride this decision as "stupid and selfish", this ignores the fact that the policies we have in place strongly encourage it.
I would therefore blame the folks making public policy for creating and then failing to eliminate this perverse incentive
far more than I would blame any individual for making the totally rational decision to respond to it accordingly.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 02:30:19 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:22:26 PM
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
People are stupid and selfish.
Or, well, people respond to the incentives they are given, even if they are perverse.
Say, for example, you're on vacation and you decide to go to get tested before flying home in order to comply with your home state's travel rules. You feel fine, but surprise! Your test comes back positive. You now have two options:
1) Reschedule your flight, extend your car rental (if you have one), and spend the next two weeks locked in a hotel room, all on your own dime. Oh and if you didn't think to bring your work laptop with you, you may have to either lose two weeks of pay or burn an extra two weeks of vacation time.
2) Go ahead and get on your flight home anyway, just don't say anything to anyone about having tested positive, and then when you get home just stay home for the next two weeks and comply with the travel rules that way.
While option 1 is certainly the preferred one for the sake of public health, the fact of the matter is that option 1 costs the affected individual a significant sum of their own money, while option 2 likely costs the affected individual nothing since no US jurisdiction other than Hawaii has been imposing legal penalties against people for doing this. Thus, a lot of people will chose option 2 in order to save themselves what could easily be a four-figure sum of money. And while it may be tempting to deride this decision as "stupid and selfish", this ignores the fact that the policies we have in place strongly encourage it.
I would therefore blame the folks making public policy for creating and then failing to eliminate this perverse incentive far more than I would blame any individual for making the totally rational decision to respond to it accordingly.
How would you disincentive doing this?
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 02:30:19 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:22:26 PM
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
People are stupid and selfish.
Or, well, people respond to the incentives they are given, even if they are perverse.
Say, for example, you're on vacation and you decide to go to get tested before flying home in order to comply with your home state's travel rules. You feel fine, but surprise! Your test comes back positive. You now have two options:
1) Reschedule your flight, extend your car rental (if you have one), and spend the next two weeks locked in a hotel room, all on your own dime. Oh and if you didn't think to bring your work laptop with you, you may have to either lose two weeks of pay or burn an extra two weeks of vacation time.
2) Go ahead and get on your flight home anyway, just don't say anything to anyone about having tested positive, and then when you get home just stay home for the next two weeks and comply with the travel rules that way.
While option 1 is certainly the preferred one for the sake of public health, the fact of the matter is that option 1 costs the affected individual a significant sum of their own money, while option 2 likely costs the affected individual nothing since no US jurisdiction other than Hawaii has been imposing legal penalties against people for doing this. Thus, a lot of people will chose option 2 in order to save themselves what could easily be a four-figure sum of money. And while it may be tempting to deride this decision as "stupid and selfish", this ignores the fact that the policies we have in place strongly encourage it.
I would therefore blame the folks making public policy for creating and then failing to eliminate this perverse incentive far more than I would blame any individual for making the totally rational decision to respond to it accordingly.
I don't see how what you're saying negates the idea that option 2 is selfish.
"I could either follow the law or spread the virus and possibly kill someone."
That said, I suppose the disincentive would have been stricter regulation of the airlines or some harsher controls on recreational travel in particular.
At least in my daughter's experience, the COVID flyers were mostly people visiting Florida from Connecticut. There was one guy who tried lying and saying he was in CT, but one of his relatives ratted him out -- he was in NC.
There are some terrible people out there.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:38:53 AM
How would you disincentive doing this?
Well, it's about moot at this point since we're rapidly approaching a situation where if anyone is unvaccinated that is purely by their own decision. But, logically, there would have been three potential solutions:
1) Impose fines/other penalties for failure to immediately proceed to quarantine upon receiving positive test results that are greater than the cost of quarantining away from home
2) Have Uncle Sam pick up the tab for all quarantine costs
3) Prohibit flying for non-essential reasons, such that the conundrum never arises in the first place
Of course, these are all politically unpopular ideas, which is why we did not implement any of them.
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 07:06:21 AM
I don't see how what you're saying negates the idea that option 2 is selfish.
It doesn't, in the most technical sense. What it does is provide context, emphasizing that the burden on the individual of doing the right thing (option 1) is quite high. Indeed, there are enough people in this country living on the edge of their means that I'm sure some people who decided to fly home anyway legit could not afford to spend an extra two weeks in a hotel.
QuoteAt least in my daughter's experience, the COVID flyers were mostly people visiting Florida from Connecticut.
Yeah, that's not surprising at all. Florida seems to be the place to go for people who want to travel and be reckless about it. Part of why, even though I've willingly flown several times in the last year, flying to Florida specifically was still a big nope.
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 07:06:21 AM
I don't see how what you're saying negates the idea that option 2 is selfish.
"If we choose Option 1, then my company will be in a bind because I can't do my job."
"If we choose Option 1, then my children will miss two weeks of their schooling."
et cetera
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 11:33:29 AM
3) Prohibit flying for non-essential reasons, such that the conundrum never arises in the first place
It would still arise. During the height of COVID, my former boss was working for a company that sets up telecom systems in hotels all over the country. Communications is considered an essential business on all the lists I've seen. Part of his job was to go out to work sites that had some sort of problem and clean up the mess. Now imagine that he came down with COVID while he was out in San Francisco or Newark or somewhere far away on the company dime. The company he worked for could barely stay afloat well enough to pay its employees on time, so do you think they'd want to pay for two extra weeks of hotel stay for him? I could imagine him flying back home while knowingly infected, in order to save the company–whose owner is a personal friend of his–thousands of dollars. And I could certainly imagine someone else in a similar situation, but with less ethical integrity, doing the same.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 11:33:29 AM
3) Prohibit flying for non-essential reasons, such that the conundrum never arises in the first place
It would still arise. During the height of COVID, my former boss was working for a company that sets up telecom systems in hotels all over the country. Communications is considered an essential business on all the lists I've seen. Part of his job was to go out to work sites that had some sort of problem and clean up the mess. Now imagine that he came down with COVID while he was out in San Francisco or Newark or somewhere far away on the company dime. The company he worked for could barely stay afloat well enough to pay its employees on time, so do you think they'd want to pay for two extra weeks of hotel stay for him? I could imagine him flying back home while knowingly infected, in order to save the company–whose owner is a personal friend of his–thousands of dollars. And I could certainly imagine someone else in a similar situation, but with less ethical integrity, doing the same.
How about providing him with a rental car and having him drive home? Any interactions he might have with other individuals on his drive home would fall well within allowable thresholds for safe contact with others.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 02:30:19 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:22:26 PM
When my daughter was a contact tracer, it was horrifying how many people knowingly flew while infected.
People are stupid and selfish.
Or, well, people respond to the incentives they are given, even if they are perverse.
Say, for example, you're on vacation and you decide to go to get tested before flying home in order to comply with your home state's travel rules. You feel fine, but surprise! Your test comes back positive. You now have two options:
1) Reschedule your flight, extend your car rental (if you have one), and spend the next two weeks locked in a hotel room, all on your own dime. Oh and if you didn't think to bring your work laptop with you, you may have to either lose two weeks of pay or burn an extra two weeks of vacation time.
2) Go ahead and get on your flight home anyway, just don't say anything to anyone about having tested positive, and then when you get home just stay home for the next two weeks and comply with the travel rules that way.
While option 1 is certainly the preferred one for the sake of public health, the fact of the matter is that option 1 costs the affected individual a significant sum of their own money, while option 2 likely costs the affected individual nothing since no US jurisdiction other than Hawaii has been imposing legal penalties against people for doing this. Thus, a lot of people will chose option 2 in order to save themselves what could easily be a four-figure sum of money. And while it may be tempting to deride this decision as "stupid and selfish", this ignores the fact that the policies we have in place strongly encourage it.
I would therefore blame the folks making public policy for creating and then failing to eliminate this perverse incentive far more than I would blame any individual for making the totally rational decision to respond to it accordingly.
I'm guessing those are the rapid tests, which are notorious for false positives. So it's quite likely that those people who "knowingly flew while infected" actually weren't infected.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
How about providing him with a rental car and having him drive home? Any interactions he might have with other individuals on his drive home would fall well within allowable thresholds for safe contact with others.
So now you're assuming that (1) he would tell his manager, and that (2) his manager would knowingly provide the means to let n COVID-infected employee travel on a multi-state multi-day road trip, violating all sorts of public health travel orders along the way?
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
I'm guessing those are the rapid tests, which are notorious for false positives. So it's quite likely that those people who "knowingly flew while infected" actually weren't infected.
What an irrational way to rationalize -- to guess that they all got rapid tests and that rapid tests are 100% unreliable. No, they were not rapid tests and, even if they were, the false positive rate isn't that high with them.
Contrary to popular belief, there are terrible people out there that put their desire to travel above the safety of others by knowingly spreading a deadly disease.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
How about providing him with a rental car and having him drive home? Any interactions he might have with other individuals on his drive home would fall well within allowable thresholds for safe contact with others.
So now you're assuming that (1) he would tell his manager, and that (2) his manager would knowingly provide the means to let n COVID-infected employee travel on a multi-state multi-day road trip, violating all sorts of public health travel orders along the way?
If this employee was stuck at a remote work site and needed to get home, wouldn't it be safer for them to take a solo road trip with limited interactions with others over putting them on a flight with others?
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
I'm guessing those are the rapid tests, which are notorious for false positives. So it's quite likely that those people who "knowingly flew while infected" actually weren't infected.
What an irrational way to rationalize -- to guess that they all got rapid tests and that rapid tests are 100% unreliable. No, they were not rapid tests and, even if they were, the false positive rate isn't that high with them.
Contrary to popular belief, there are terrible people out there that put their desire to travel above the safety of others by knowingly spreading a deadly disease.
Where did I say that rapid tests are 100 percent unreliable? I didn't. But the fact remains that they report a number of false positives, and if you're getting ready to fly home, you're probably going to get a rapid test instead of the normal two- or three-day test. (I just had a friend who tested positive via a rapid test, who had already had covid once, but the doctor suspected a false positive and ordered the regular test, which resulted in a negative.)
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:17:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
How about providing him with a rental car and having him drive home? Any interactions he might have with other individuals on his drive home would fall well within allowable thresholds for safe contact with others.
So now you're assuming that (1) he would tell his manager, and that (2) his manager would knowingly provide the means to let n COVID-infected employee travel on a multi-state multi-day road trip, violating all sorts of public health travel orders along the way?
If this employee was stuck at a remote work site and needed to get home, wouldn't it be safer for them to take a solo road trip with limited interactions with others over putting them on a flight with others?
I think Kyle's post was meant to illustrate the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" nature of the situation. A company could be found liable if there were records showing they knowingly sent someone with covid through a state that had rules to the contrary.
Of course, actually prosecuting that would probably require the stars to line up just right. Someone with any sort of discretion about it at all would be very hard to detect, and even if one of the states along the way somehow caught on, it would be next to impossible for them to actually seek damages from a company outside their borders.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:17:44 PM
If this employee was stuck at a remote work site and needed to get home, wouldn't it be safer for them to take a solo road trip with limited interactions with others over putting them on a flight with others?
Saf
er, yes. Sufficiently safe to be compliant with public health guidelines, no. The only compliant solution under this circumstance is for the employee to stay quarantined in a hotel local to their current location until medically cleared.
And if the employer is reasonable and has any sense of liability, they would permit the employee to treat their quarantine as an extension of their business trip and expense the cost of lodging and meals accordingly.
On a related note, this very issue is why I have been taking my work laptop on vacation with me when in the past I would not have: this way in the event that I get sick and need to quarantine away from home, I don't have to miss work on account of it (assuming I feel well enough to be working, anyway).
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 08:58:35 PM
On a related note, this very issue is why I have been taking my work laptop on vacation with me when in the past I would not have: this way in the event that I get sick and need to quarantine away from home, I don't have to miss work on account of it (assuming I feel well enough to be working, anyway).
Not quite the same deal for me. When my family had to quarantine upon returning from Mexico in March last year, it involved my boss disconnecting my desktop PC (dual monitors and all), gathering papers from my desk, putting everything in a big box, and dropping it off on my front porch. It's not as simple as toting along a laptop for me.
...which, I assume, wouldn't exactly convenient to lug around with you on vacation just in case you get quarantined.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:30:03 PM
...which, I assume, wouldn't exactly convenient to lug around with you on vacation just in case you get quarantined.
I'd survive with just the laptop for those situations. Just not quite as convenient. I'm taking the laptop with me on a vacation this summer just so I can work a few hours in the morning and save some PTO.
Chris
Yes I have. Flew from HOU to MCO and back early November last year. The airports did very well with social distancing and were fairly abandoned (especially the bottom level of MCO), and Southwest at the time was blocking middle seats, I believe, except if your group could occupy all 3 in the row. Plane was about 75-80% full, not exactly a perfect situation, but not horrible either.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Yes I have. Flew from HOU to MCO and back early November last year. The airports did very well with social distancing and were fairly abandoned (especially the bottom level of MCO), and Southwest at the time was blocking middle seats, I believe, except if your group could occupy all 3 in the row. Plane was about 75-80% full, not exactly a perfect situation, but not horrible either.
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have you heard of Anime Matsuri and Holiday Matsuri? Our city is coming up with Bold Matsuri and it will begin this summer.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 23, 2021, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Yes I have. Flew from HOU to MCO and back early November last year. The airports did very well with social distancing and were fairly abandoned (especially the bottom level of MCO), and Southwest at the time was blocking middle seats, I believe, except if your group could occupy all 3 in the row. Plane was about 75-80% full, not exactly a perfect situation, but not horrible either.
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have you heard of Anime Matsuri and Holiday Matsuri? Our city is coming up with Bold Matsuri and it will begin this summer.
No. I'm not into anime.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 23, 2021, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Yes I have. Flew from HOU to MCO and back early November last year. The airports did very well with social distancing and were fairly abandoned (especially the bottom level of MCO), and Southwest at the time was blocking middle seats, I believe, except if your group could occupy all 3 in the row. Plane was about 75-80% full, not exactly a perfect situation, but not horrible either.
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have you heard of Anime Matsuri and Holiday Matsuri? Our city is coming up with Bold Matsuri and it will begin this summer.
No. I'm not into anime.
Okay, it's worth noting that there's more than just that at those conventions, there's also cosplay and other things.
Quote from: US 89 on April 23, 2021, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 23, 2021, 01:48:36 PM
I know this is somewhat off-topic
FTFY
Haha, you got me on that one. Wasn't sure if it was totally appropriate, so I just winged it.
I have not flown in almost five years.
Quote from: golden eagle on April 27, 2021, 08:38:04 PM
I have not flown in almost five years.
I haven't flown since 2015.
I haven't flown since probably 2007. But there's a very slim chance I might be later this year.
I did a couple weeks ago; Denver and Omaha were approaching 2019 levels of business.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 11:33:29 AM
Yeah, that's not surprising at all. Florida seems to be the place to go for people who want to travel and be reckless about it. Part of why, even though I've willingly flown several times in the last year, flying to Florida specifically was still a big nope.
I have a meeting in Florida in July, but I've spent most of the last year in SD, NE, and WY so it's not like I'm coming from a place with health rules.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 09:40:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2021, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 09:33:07 PM
Do airlines have passengers sit next to each other during covid?
Yes, at least within the US. And there are more infected people flying than you might think. Some family friends of ours came down with Covid after returning from a trip, and they're 99% sure they got it from the crowded plane. Personally I'm planning to avoid flying until I'm vaccinated.
Me too. They should at least block off the middle seat.
Delta was the last one doing so. They stopped a week ago.
Frankly, I couldn't care less about seat blocking (though I do enjoy the added space).
I flew home from Tampa back in February. It was one way since a drove with my family on the way down. It was actually the first time I have flown in nearly 10 years.
Yes. I've been to Florida, and I'm going to Jamaica, Mexico, and Siesta Key this year!! In regards to travel, I'm also going to Ocean City and Jellystone.
The kid flew from Seattle to Virginia and back last June. Hardly anybody was flying then. They had the middle seat, with no one in the aisle or window seats and no one in the two rows in front of them or the three rows behind them. I'm sure the airline was losing its shirt, except for the generosity of Uncle Sam. I worried anyway, of course, but it was fine. They're flying again this June but they'll be fully vaccinated by then.
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2021, 09:16:51 AM
I haven't flown since probably 2007. But there's a very slim chance I might be later this year.
Nope, my chance just got so slim as to be thinner than a hair. Looks like the trip will be driving both ways, and not a flight on the return as was a possibility.
I wasn't even a fan of flying before COVID. My last flight was about seven years ago for a cruise out of Seattle. I am not getting on a plane anytime soon. Not so much because of COVID or other health concerns, but because of potential fallout (delayed flights, etc.) due to idiots refusing to comply with established rules. That's always been a potential risk, but it seems to be happening a lot more lately.
I haven't flown in 2 years, especially since I and my dad are going to drive everywhere for a little while...