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Started by kenarmy, March 29, 2021, 10:25:21 AM

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1995hoo

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2024, 03:07:15 PM
How do you make cot not sound like caught? Are you saying the latter as "Kuh-ow-ut" or something?

The vowel in "cot" sounds sort of like an "ah" sound. The vowel in "caught" sounds like an "awe" sound, like "ought." ("Ought," as in the word connoting an obligation, sounds the same as the numeric term "aught.")




On a totally unrelated note, three cheers to you for dealing with a certain forum issue.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


Scott5114

I may have pushed the button, but the real thanks go to the guy who told me to go ahead with it. ;)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

webny99

Quote from: 7/8 on February 18, 2024, 12:54:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 17, 2024, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 17, 2024, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 17, 2024, 06:16:07 PM
Is Rochester pronounced "Raw Chester" or "Rawch Ester"?
More like "Rah Chester".

Agreed for Rochester, NY. There's not really a w sound at all, and it sometimes gets blended even further to more like "Rach-ster" with a short a sound.

I have some friends from Maryland that once tried to pronounce it "Row-chester" and I found that hilarious. You won't hear anything even close to an o sound locally.

This discussion gets more confusing when you consider the cot-caught merger. For those with the merger, including myself and possibly TheHighwayMan394, "rah" and "raw" are the same sound. But to those without the merger, they are different sounds.

So for me, "RAW-chester" is the same as "RAH-chester" (both pronounced like the latter).

To me, the sounds are similar, but there is a slight difference. Rah sounds a bit more nasally and has a slightly longer a sound.

Brandon

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2024, 03:07:15 PM
How do you make cot not sound like caught? Are you saying the latter as "Kuh-ow-ut" or something?

Inland North (Michiganese):

Cat: "cyat"
Cot: "caht"
Caught: "cawt"
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

hotdogPi

Quote from: Brandon on February 18, 2024, 08:30:12 PM
Cat: "cyat"

To me, "cyat" is two syllables and has a soft c.
Clinched

Traveled, plus 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

New:
I-189 clinched
US 7, VT 2A, 11, 15,  17, 73, 103, 116, 125, NH 123 traveled

vdeane

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 18, 2024, 01:50:57 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on February 18, 2024, 12:54:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 17, 2024, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 17, 2024, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 17, 2024, 06:16:07 PM
Is Rochester pronounced "Raw Chester" or "Rawch Ester"?
More like "Rah Chester".

Agreed for Rochester, NY. There's not really a w sound at all, and it sometimes gets blended even further to more like "Rach-ster" with a short a sound.

I have some friends from Maryland that once tried to pronounce it "Row-chester" and I found that hilarious. You won't hear anything even close to an o sound locally.

This discussion gets more confusing when you consider the cot-caught merger. For those with the merger, including myself and possibly TheHighwayMan394, "rah" and "raw" are the same sound. But to those without the merger, they are different sounds.

So for me, "RAW-chester" is the same as "RAH-chester" (both pronounced like the latter).

Heh. My mother's late mother (she lived in Brooklyn, if it's relevant) insisted that I was mispronouncing the name of the capital of North Carolina by pronouncing it like "rah-lee" instead of like "RAW-lee." My response pointing out that I lived about 20 minutes outside Raleigh and that I knew very well how to pronounce it didn't seem to carry any weight whatsoever with her. So she plainly heard different sounds but was adamant that the wrong one was correct. (And yes, I plainly hear the difference. "Cot" doesn't sound at all like "caught," either.)
Interesting, I always thought it was rah-lay (rhymes with sleigh).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Brandon

Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2024, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 18, 2024, 08:30:12 PM
Cat: "cyat"

To me, "cyat" is two syllables and has a soft c.

Sorry, "kyat" as one syllable might make more sense.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

1995hoo

Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2024, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 18, 2024, 08:30:12 PM
Cat: "cyat"

To me, "cyat" is two syllables and has a soft c.

"Cyat" looks, at first glance, so much like "cyan" that I read it similarly.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

7/8

Quote from: Brandon on February 18, 2024, 08:30:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2024, 03:07:15 PM
How do you make cot not sound like caught? Are you saying the latter as "Kuh-ow-ut" or something?

Inland North (Michiganese):

Cat: "cyat"
Cot: "caht"
Caught: "cawt"

These types of explanations won't work for someone who has the merger. :-D

Listen to the audio samples at the start of this Wikipedia article. Though keep in mind the non-merged example is from the Inland North dialect, so it's more fronted than other American accents (their "cot" sounds almost like "cat" in my dialect, Northern Cities Vowel Shift is a whole nother topic to read about! :thumbsup:)

hotdogPi

I pronounce them the same but can definitely hear them differently (and can say them differently if I intentionally try to).
Clinched

Traveled, plus 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

New:
I-189 clinched
US 7, VT 2A, 11, 15,  17, 73, 103, 116, 125, NH 123 traveled

J N Winkler

Quote from: 7/8 on February 18, 2024, 11:58:16 PMListen to the audio samples at the start of this Wikipedia article. Though keep in mind the non-merged example is from the Inland North dialect, so it's more fronted than other American accents (their "cot" sounds almost like "cat" in my dialect, Northern Cities Vowel Shift is a whole nother topic to read about! :thumbsup:)

Western American English (the basis for the "network TV accent") also merges cot and caught, though to a different phoneme from most other English accents.  But I think the most interesting part of the article is the discussion of spatial and generational complexities in how the merger is distributed.  Labov's finding (from telephone interviews in the 1990's) that people in Kansas tended not to merge if they were then over age 40 calls to mind dim memories of grown-ups correcting kids for mispronouncing those two words.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2024, 03:07:15 PM
How do you make cot not sound like caught? Are you saying the latter as "Kuh-ow-ut" or something?

To you, does Lawton rhyme with cotton?

To you, is there a difference between these:
do - re - mi - fa - sol - la - ti - do
do - re - mi - fa - sol - law - ti - do

To you, is there a difference between Awwwwwww! (that's so cute) and Ahhhhhhh! (now I get it)?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 03:02:34 PM
To you, is there a difference between Awwwwwww! (that's so cute) and Ahhhhhhh! (now I get it)?

I barely have to open my mouth or move my lips at all to say Awwwwwww!, but unironically open my mouth a lot wider to say Ahhhhhhh!  :-D

dlsterner

I was behind a van in traffic today with the Maryland license plate "8675309".  I wonder if Jenny was driving.

Kicking myself for not having my phone with me so I could take a picture.

hotdogPi

Boarding at North Station in Boston.

If you do so on the first floor, you're getting on a train.
If you do so on the second floor (TD Garden), you're getting a 2-minute penalty.
Clinched

Traveled, plus 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

New:
I-189 clinched
US 7, VT 2A, 11, 15,  17, 73, 103, 116, 125, NH 123 traveled

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: dlsterner on February 19, 2024, 11:08:57 PM
I was behind a van in traffic today with the Maryland license plate "8675309".  I wonder if Jenny was driving.

Kicking myself for not having my phone with me so I could take a picture.

I often describe my Camry as being the 'S--tbox edition'. Going down US 85 Sunday near Brighton, saw a pickup, with those words on a sticker. And it was 100% s--tbox, too.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

Max Rockatansky

#2866
Presently my wife and I are visiting family in Jalisco.  We just had Wifi installed at the house yesterday which cost 165 Pesos a year plus after a 600 Peso installation fee. 

Usually I like to browse census income statistics when I'm down here.  The latest median income figure reported online has the average Jalisco citizen pulling in about 5,900 Pesos during Q4 of 2022 (or roughly 70,800 annually).

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1384921/average-monthly-wages-jalisco-mexico/

Using the exchange rate yesterday for US Dollars of $16.10 this comes to a median monthly income of about $366.50 USD a month and annual median income of about $4,398 USD. 

During one week on this trip we have spent about 3,000 Pesos (about $186.36 USD).  This figure includes paying for internet (as noted above) and 500 Pesos for a ride from the airport.  What I tend to notice is the price of food tends to be far lower than in the United States.  For example this morning we purchased 15 tacos for breakfast which cost 80 Pesos (about $5 USD).  My Father in law spent 1,000 Pesos on having a water pump repaired (he didn't comment on the parts price) on the family Suburban.  I'm to understand that was a fairly typical price to pay for having a vehicle being repaired over the course of a full day. 

Interestingly I've noticed all the real bottom basement new cars have been pulled from the Mexican market.  The cheapest Chevy I can find is the newest Aveo which stars at 292,000 Pesos (about $18,136 USD).  I guess when the median income is 5,940 Pesos it is no wonder new vehicles are rare and 30-50 year old vehicles are common sight.  It just plain is cheaper to keep a car running or not drive at all if you don't have to.  The price of gas tends to run slightly higher than what I typically pay in California.

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 22, 2024, 01:02:48 PM
My Father in law spent 1,000 Pesos on having a water pump repaired (he didn't comment on the parts price) on the family Suburban.

Parts are generally a little more expensive in Mexico.  Our friend buys parts when he drives stateside, rather than buying them local.  (I've only ever bought one car part while in Mexico.)

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 22, 2024, 01:02:48 PM
... it is no wonder new vehicles are rare and 30-50 year old vehicles are common sight.  It just plain is cheaper to keep a car running or not drive at all if you don't have to.

Which is why, when you drive to Mexico, you have to temporarily import your vehicle and pay a deposit of a few hundred dollars.  It's to guarantee that you won't simply sell your slightly used vehicle while you're there, therewith cutting into the national auto manufacturing economy.  Used American cars are a hot commodity in Mexico, because they're in so much better shape than the equivalent Mexican-owned vehicle.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

All three family truck platform vehicles are from the states.  Presently there is a Suburban, F150 and Dodge Ram 1500 sitting in the corral.  The Suburban probably is in the best shape of three and is a 1998 model.  I'm to understand what happens is once a vehicle is used up state side one of the family members will bring it down here.

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 22, 2024, 01:27:15 PM
All three family truck platform vehicles are from the states.  Presently there is a Suburban, F150 and Dodge Ram 1500 sitting in the corral.  The Suburban probably is in the best shape of three and is a 1998 model.  I'm to understand what happens is once a vehicle is used up state side one of the family members will bring it down here.

If it has legit state-issued license plates, then that relative went through the process of permanently importing it into Mexico, which involves a customs broker at the border and a couple of thousand dollars.

If it has phony cardboard-looking license plates, then it's a chocolate, and it's in Mexico illegally.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

The plates are definitely the real deal.  My wife corrected me on the Ram, apparently that belonged to her Grandfather and was purchased in Jalisco.

bm7

When I first saw the thread titled "First Wikipedia article for a highway", I thought it was going to be about what highway first had a Wikipedia article created about it. Now I'm curious what the answer to that would be...

Scott5114

My guess would be U.S. Route 66, which was started on September 2, 2002, a year and a half after the site was created. This is the first revision, a good chunk of which was just a bullet point list of the towns mentioned in the song "Route 66". Ironically, they appear to have forgotten Winona.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kkt

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2024, 11:53:27 PM
My guess would be U.S. Route 66, which was started on September 2, 2002, a year and a half after the site was created. This is the first revision, a good chunk of which was just a bullet point list of the towns mentioned in the song "Route 66". Ironically, they appear to have forgotten Winona.

Oh, that"s just embarassing.

bm7

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 23, 2024, 11:53:27 PM
My guess would be U.S. Route 66, which was started on September 2, 2002, a year and a half after the site was created. This is the first revision, a good chunk of which was just a bullet point list of the towns mentioned in the song "Route 66". Ironically, they appear to have forgotten Winona.
Looking at that user's contributions led me to find that there was an article for the PCH just named Highway 1 created all the way back on February 18th of that year.



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