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Why doesn't i-84 end in providence?

Started by silverback1065, August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AM

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spooky

The area circled on that nighttime aerial and the area highlighted on the map are not the same. The large lighted hub to the right inside the circle is Providence.


jon daly

Right, but for whatever reason the rural part of RI wasn't designated as  the LGV.

Wrt Alps's comment, I-95 does go through there, but the area near there isn't well developed. Between Mystic and the West Warwick/Coventry R.I. area, there's a roughly 30 mile stretch where the only big development I see is off of Exit 3 along RI-138 in Richmond/Wyoming and a strip in Pawcatuck Conn. along CT-2 off of Exit 92. There are two truck stops, also, but I-95 is only a small sliver of light on that photo.)

Alps

Quote from: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 09:20:13 AM
Right, but for whatever reason the rural part of RI wasn't designated as  the LGV.

Wrt Alps's comment, I-95 does go through there, but the area near there isn't well developed. Between Mystic and the West Warwick/Coventry R.I. area, there's a roughly 30 mile stretch where the only big development I see is off of Exit 3 along RI-138 in Richmond/Wyoming and a strip in Pawcatuck Conn. along CT-2 off of Exit 92. There are two truck stops, also, but I-95 is only a small sliver of light on that photo.)
But that's my point. If I-95 isn't developed, why would I-84 be?

froggie

^ The "I-84" segments would be noticeably closer to Providence and thus more prone to development pressure.

PHLBOS

Quote from: froggie on July 20, 2018, 08:25:04 AM^ The "I-84" segments would be noticeably closer to Providence and thus more prone to development pressure.
In my experience, at least in the Northeast, such areas are already prone to development pressure... highway or no highway.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

jon daly

I'd have to research this more, but there was a proposed jet/seaport in eastern Connecticut that never came to fruition and may've if I-84 made it to Killingly and the harbor was expanded in Norwich.

I found a report on Google Books that included a letter by a Canterbury woman that stated that I-84 would have only saved 8 minuts over the CT-2/CT-52 (I-395) route from Hartford to Killingly. Not sure I buy that.

https://books.google.com/books?id=RKs1AQAAMAAJ&dq=last+green+valley+providence+hartford+freeway&source=gbs_navlinks_s

kurumi

Quote from: jon daly on July 20, 2018, 09:56:39 AM
I'd have to research this more, but there was a proposed jet/seaport in eastern Connecticut that never came to fruition and may've if I-84 made it to Killingly and the harbor was expanded in Norwich.

I found a report on Google Books that included a letter by a Canterbury woman that stated that I-84 would have only saved 8 minuts over the CT-2/CT-52 (I-395) route from Hartford to Killingly. Not sure I buy that.

https://books.google.com/books?id=RKs1AQAAMAAJ&dq=last+green+valley+providence+hartford+freeway&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Using I-384 and US 6 (close to notional I-84 route): about 49 miles
Using CT 2 and I-395: about 66 miles

17 miles * 60 minutes/hour / 8 minutes = 127 MPH. Either she's a crazy driver or her math doesn't check out.
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jon daly

Kurumi!  You're the guy who led me to this place.


I'll have to ask an uncle of mine who married into our family. His dad was a DOT engineer. Looking at page 290 of that Google Books link that I posted, she claims that the 8 mile difference was estimated by "A DOT employee who has studied the proposed route carefully."

I had no idea that opposition to this was around in 1972. I thought that this was a later phenomon, but I was only four years old at the time. Watergate is my first clear news memory and that was a year later when that story became big.

RobbieL2415

Its not the time difference that necessarily matters, its the capacity.  Anyone who has driven US 6 from Bolton to Brooklyn knows that its a pain in the ass during rush hour.

jon daly

Where are the bottlenecks on that commute? I've driven that whole stretch, but my most recent (last few years) experience with it is usually on the stretch from CT-87 to I-384; and that's on the weekend.

jp the roadgeek

The roughest stretches are the "Suicide 6"  stretch from I-384 to the Willimantic bypass, and the stretch east of CT 198 to CT 12.  Mostly 2 lanes with some tough site lines and hilly terrain.  At least the Willimantic bypass is a full 65 MPH expressway and the 4 lane stretch near Windham Airport is pretty low stress to drive.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

jon daly

I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,

RobbieL2415

Quote from: jon daly on July 21, 2018, 10:00:57 PM
Where are the bottlenecks on that commute? I've driven that whole stretch, but my most recent (last few years) experience with it is usually on the stretch from CT-87 to I-384; and that's on the weekend.
Bottlenecks happen when people don't go the speed limit, and. when there's a hill and the lead driver in the pocket can't give their car more gas.

And yes the sight lines have improved dramatically thanks to shoulder widening and keeping the trees trimmed.

DJStephens

Quote from: jon daly on July 22, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,

Were pylons placed down the middle of the center double yellow line?  Vehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.   

sharkyfour

Quote from: DJStephens on July 22, 2018, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: jon daly on July 22, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,

Were pylons placed down the middle of the center double yellow line?  Vehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.   

No pylons in CT.  I vaguely remember RI trying that on US-6 just past Killingly a while back but it was quickly abandoned.  In CT the stretch from Bolton all the way to the RI line was straightened and sight lines improved in phases between 2000 and 2010 or so, with turn lanes added on the Bolton-Columbia stretch.  Seems to have cut down on both the number and severity of accidents along the road.

froggie

Quote from: DJStephensVehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.   

I checked traffic volumes going back to 2002 and this does not appear to be the case here.  Volumes on US 6 are a little higher than they were before the Great Recession, and certainly higher than they were in 2002.

Mergingtraffic

The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

I'm also sure CT DOT has erased some passing zones on the stretch over the years as people complained over safety.  and it's PC to slow traffic down and take away passing zones for the perceived safety effect.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

hotdogPi

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
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Mergingtraffic

Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.

Sure they would, look at MA-8 and some of those roads, they're signed at 55mph at certain spots.

Btw, a few years back RI gave US-6 a road diet narrowing it from 4 to two lanes.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

RobbieL2415

Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.

PHLBOS

#70
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 23, 2018, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.  It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.
Corrections to below-post in blue.

Based on GSV, the only place where US 6 is 55 in that vicinity is in Westport between MA 88 & 177.  Elsewhere, the highest limit posted along that stretch of US 6 is 50 mph.  Lack of a shoulder/breakdown lane and surrounding development is the likely reason most of it's not posted at 55.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

RobbieL2415

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 24, 2018, 08:59:41 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 23, 2018, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.
Based on GSV, the highest limit posted along that stretch of US 6 is 50 mph.  Lack of a shoulder/breakdown lane and surrounding development is the likely reason it's not posted at 55.
Hmmm. Perhaps they changed it. Havent been on that stretch since 2014.

deathtopumpkins

US 6 between New Bedford and Fall River definitely has a stretch of 55, through Westport: WB, EB, at least as of June 2017.
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cl94

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 03:06:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed.  The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph. 

There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.

Sure they would, look at MA-8 and some of those roads, they're signed at 55mph at certain spots.

Yeah, and those certain spots are still only 1000 feet long. Ever been on the 55 sections of US 7? Damn thing drops down to 45 or 50 for every curve and intersection. It's ridiculous.
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PHLBOS

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 26, 2018, 08:43:44 PMUS 6 between New Bedford and Fall River definitely has a stretch of 55, through Westport: WB, EB, at least as of June 2017.
To add; between MA 88 & 177.  I have since corrected my previous post.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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