What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.
Some ones I can think of:
I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.
I-15 North in Las Vegas uses Salt Lake City and I-15 South in Salt Lake City reciprocates and uses Las Vegas, skipping Arizona. Although this is completely understandable, since I-15 in Arizona is only 30 miles and there are only very small towns on the route.
I-95 South in Providence uses New York City, which skips Connecticut. However, I-95 North in New York City doesn't reciprocate and uses New Haven for I-95 North.
I-80 in Ohio skips Pennsylvania and New Jersey and signs New York.
I-57 south (primary control) is for Memphis in Illinois, completely skipping Missouri and Arkansas, and going past the end of I-57.
I-94 in Michigan has a primary control of Chicago, skipping Indiana.
I-80 in Illinois used to have a primary control of Toledo, east of Joliet, again, skipping Indiana. Now, the control is Indiana.
In anticipation of the I-95/PA Turnpike ramps that opened late last September, many of the northbound signs for I-95 that once read Trenton were changed to read New York last summer... thereby skipping over NJ.
I-64 in Louisville has St. Louis as a control city, skipping two states: Illinois and Indiana.
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL
I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN
I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL
I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY
I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn't actually make it to STL
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
In Hardeeville, SC, the control city changes from Savannah to Jacksonville, skipping over Georgia.
The Ohio Turnpike westbound uses Chicago as a control city in western Ohio (west of Toledo)
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL
I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN
I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL
I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY
I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn’t actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a motorist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
2021 update: spelling
I seem to recall Duluth being signed on M-28 west of the US 41 split, skipping Superior and thus Wisconsin.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL
I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN
I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL
I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY
I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn't actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
IDOT directs I-24 West traffic heading for St Louis to use I-57 North to I-64 West, approaching the I-24 Western (Northern) terminus @ I-57, via BGSs - first to Follow I-57 North, before merging onto I-57, then when continuing on I-57, to use I-64 in Mt Vernon
That said, I would have no issue with a seemingly senseless I-57/I-24 multiplex between Marion and Mt Vernon, with St Louis and Chicago as co-Controls on that segment
I-64 West does Multiplex with I-57 North around Mt Vernon, so that I-24 West traffic that defaults onto I-57 North will naturally, in about 50 miles, see St Louis as a Control, when 57 and 64 merge together
End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.
Quote from: pianocello on January 28, 2019, 06:44:51 PM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.
It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 28, 2019, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: pianocello on January 28, 2019, 06:44:51 PM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.
It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
The Entrance Controls for I-24 at Paducah Interchanges are Nashville (east) and St Louis (west)
Roanoke VA is the control city for I-81 southbound in Hagerstown MD, skipping over West Virginia.
Quote from: Laplace on January 28, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.
Some ones I can think of:
I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.
When this was first posted in the 1960s (?), Las Cruces was a much smaller city than it is now. The city population is over 100,000 and Doña Ana County probably adds that much more. Plus, being an Interstate highway junction, I think it is the next city east of Tucson that meets control city criteria.
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 28, 2019, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: pianocello on January 28, 2019, 06:44:51 PM
I want to say there's at least one mention of St. Louis on I-24 south of the Ohio River as well, which would skip at least Illinois, but I couldn't find one when I quickly scanned Google Street View.
It's not on the mainline, but there is this sign on the NB road between US 45 and US 62. (https://goo.gl/maps/xxwwFLrgHR42)
The Entrance Controls for I-24 at Paducah Interchanges are Nashville (east) and St Louis (west)
Yes, beginning at the US 68 exit.
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2019, 10:37:44 AM
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)
Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!). I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.
Quote from: sparker on January 29, 2019, 11:57:59 AM
Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!). I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.
In and west of Grand Junction, the control city is now simply "Utah":
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1768/28434682147_68e104b0e3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KjFbmt)
See how "Utah" is on a greenout? That control city used to be Green River, a little town of less than 1000 most notable as the junction of US 6 and I-70!
I know there are at least a few Las Vegas signs at some of the I-70 exits west of Richfield, but the bottom line on the mileage signs is "Jct I-15".
As for St. George: I'd love to see that happen, but Utah seems to like its faraway control cities too much for that to change. If Provo can't be its own control city from Salt Lake, I see no reason why St. George would get that status. (Meanwhile, Ogden is a full control city, but that seems to be more of a function of the I-15/84 junction there.)
Quote from: sparker on January 29, 2019, 11:57:59 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2019, 10:37:44 AM
I-15 South from SLC uses Las Vegas, skipping over Arizona.
(I know -- too easy!)
Similarly I-70 in western Colorado, skipping both UT and AZ (or at least the last time I was on that route!). I wonder if the growth of St. George (UT) will at some point effect a control-city sign change.
Vegas is still much bigger and more famous.
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.
US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 95 south of I-84 in Idaho and north of I-80 in Winnemucca use Winnemucca and Boise, respectively, as control cities, skipping Oregon. Oregon, of course, uses "Jordan Valley" and "Ontario"
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.
Quote from: corco on January 29, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.
US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
I-55 in Missouri and I-270/I-255 in Missouri and Illinois use Memphis, skipping AR
Conversely, I-55 and I-240 in Memphis, TN use St Louis, also skipping AR
Quote from: Takumi on January 29, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.
Still is. It says "New York City" underneath "Baltimore" and it's northbound at Exit 161. Further north prior to Exit 166 a different sign refers to "NY—NJ," but they're not really being used in the traditional control city sense.
Modern signage for southbound I-95 (Maine Turnpike) include "Boston" as a control city, skipping over New Hampshire. An example on the Falmouth Spur (unsigned I-495): https://goo.gl/maps/p2a9LBrYTGK2
Considering its length through the Granite State is a hair over 16-miles, I can see why no town from there was chosen, although one could argue using "Portsmouth" as a control city.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
What did you even mean by this? Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70. A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis: exit where the big sign tells you to.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: corco on January 29, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.
US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.
(Really?)
Quote from: Rothman on January 29, 2019, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: corco on January 29, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
US 212 east in Montana goes from Broadus, MT to Belle Fourche, SD, skipping Wyoming. 212 west in SD does not do that, using "WY State Line" as the control city.
US 2 (west of Libby) in Montana uses Spokane, Washington instead of Sandpoint or Bonner's Ferry, Idaho
US 212 in Wyoming really does not go or connect to anywhere.
Just this little place called Yellowstone National Park.
(Really?)
Yellowstone is not between Broadus and Belle Fourche. The 20-mile segment that
corco mentioned, and to which
Roadgeekteen replied, really doesn't go through anything of significance.
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
What did you even mean by this? Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70. A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis: exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
What did you even mean by this? Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70. A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis: exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
St Louis is never a control for I-57, but when transvering IL on I-57, from the South, I-57 North multiplexes with I-64 West around Mt Vernon, with Controls of Chicago and St Louis. From the North, I-57 South multiplexes with I-70 West around Effingham, with Controls of Memphis and St Louis
Long story short, travelers on I-57 encounter BGSs with routes to St Louis. And when on the Multiplexed segments, heading for the STL, one would be expected to follow the route to your destination/direction of travel
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on January 28, 2019, 11:54:26 PM
Quote from: Laplace on January 28, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
What are some freeways/highways that list a control city from two states over, completely ignoring the next state over? I'm aware of the infamous ones like New York for I-95 North in Baltimore and Miami for I-95 South in Virginia.
Some ones I can think of:
I-10 East in Tucson uses El Paso, Texas, completely skipping over New Mexico. Arizona, along with Utah and Nevada are western states that are infamous for skipping over moderately-sized cities for controls and using a really far away major city. Las Cruces is where the I-10/I-25 split is located, but El Paso is only about 50 miles away and a much bigger city than Las Cruces. Although I-10 West in El Paso doesn't reciprocate and uses Las Cruces rather than Tucson.
When this was first posted in the 1960s (?), Las Cruces was a much smaller city than it is now. The city population is over 100,000 and Doña Ana County probably adds that much more. Plus, being an Interstate highway junction, I think it is the next city east of Tucson that meets control city criteria.
Las Cruces has certainly grown quite a bit in recent years, from what I have heard from long time New Mexicans. I've only been in NM for 4 years, so I don't have much input on that. However, I can say that Arizona tends to skip over towns that aren't major cities. The also sign I-8 East for both Phoenix and Tucson, despite neither of them being served by I-8. They also sign I-8 West for San Diego the entire route, skipping over Yuma, which has a metro population of over 200k people now. Arizona seems to have a policy to only use major cities as control cities, unless there is no other option. Flagstaff and Nogales are the exception to this, however. I do believe that Las Cruces meets control city criteria, I just don't know if Arizona would vouch for it since they only like to use major cities as control cities and El Paso is 50 miles away.
New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
What did you even mean by this? Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70. A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis: exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
You're confusing me even more.
Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.
I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis. As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57. The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take
from I-57
to reach Saint Louis. I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70. After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?
Exit signage along I-57 shown below...
Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/ux8LRNQ9bKy): [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/6ayJcqkPYyE2): [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/MXpLUwtZzx72): [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]
Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/Rc2L6Fw2yB42): [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/r7fbane29TU2): [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70 (https://goo.gl/maps/9eRgR8WgUKo): [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway?
I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL. I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis: by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Yes there is. First is on mainline I-24, about 1 mile or so before route termination @ I-57
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fwb24at57a.jpg&hash=d14dca956ed66f3ba775911f21471d4c3bd66324)
Second is on mainline I-57, just north of the I-24 end, after I-24 traffic has joined I-57
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Ftostluse64w.jpg&hash=d2bde8c09cda84fd768243024f546a298ebdad98)
Crediting billburmaster.com for both photos
The first BGS is really the only IDOT/IL acknowledgement of I-24 West having a Control of St Louis
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
Someone who follows the teachings of Morr, obviously.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
But the interchange is done so now it technically does.
Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Besides the fact that there
is (as already mentioned by
ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with
Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?
Quote from: kphoger on January 30, 2019, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Besides the fact that there is (as already mentioned by ilpt4u)... what does that have to do with Roadgeekteen's statement about signage on I-57?
I misinterpreted this post below.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL
I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN
I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL
I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY
I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn't actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I'm not sure Texarkana would fit the spirit of the thread anyway, but my assumption is AR is the one being referred to because the route itself is entirely in Arkansas except for that stupid little bit that will clip into Texas (as a result I could see it being a long time before that bit is built; you think this will be any priority for Texas to build? Noooope.)
Quote from: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
This would be legally impossible since cities are nothing but subdivisions of states. States can create and dissolve cities as they wish.
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
Northbound I-59 in Alabama has signs using Chattanooga (skipping Georgia). This may be notable because not only do these signs skip a state, they also refer to a city that's on a different Interstate–I-59 ends in Georgia and you use I-24 to reach Chattanooga.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
Until 2018, when the gap in I-95 in NJ was completed, there was no "real" route. As 1995hoo rightly points out below, there is still no "real" route.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 18, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.
The "real route" is whatever route a given person chooses to use at a given time. If I opt for I-270 to US-15 to Harrisburg, then I-81 and I-78 to New York, it's no less a "real route" than the Jersey Turnpike route many people think is the only option.
On I-70 and at the US 15 split near Frederick, MD, Charles Town, WV is used as a control for US 340. US 340 passes through a little sliver of VA between MD and WV.
Like I-195, I-95 uses New York as a control, as well as I-295 South from RI 37 East. OHDOT also uses it on I-80 in Youngstown, which is 3 states away. Chicago is used as a control on the Ohio Turnpike from Toledo west, which skips IN.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 18, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
As long as there's a gap in I-95, there is no "real" route.
Where is the gap in I-95? PA completed the last missing link last year.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on February 18, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I-77 in Beckley, WV, at the I-64 split, has Charlotte as a control city, skipping Virginia.
Several of the advance signs use Bluefield as a control city for I-77.
Both WV and VA have a Bluefield.
Charlotte (and Richmond) are auxiliaries or supplementals. Bluefield is the control for I-77, Lewisburg for I-64. And beyond those towns, Wytheville and Lexington are used.
It doesn't say which Bluefield, so presumably it could be either or both.
It's the WV one. It's adjacent to I-77, and WV uses state abbreviations for out-of-state control cities, so if it was Bluefield, Va., it would be so signed.
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted, but for the casual motorist it could be either or both Bluefields.
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted
So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno
NV", "Las Vegas
NV", and "Cheyenne
WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
In similar fashion that I-95 northbound in MD skips over DE, PA, & NJ in favor of New York on its signs; in eastern OH, many ramp signs for I-80 eastbound also completely skip over both NJ & PA and list New York. However, once in PA; that practice is dropped.
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted
So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway? :bigass:
A morris dancer?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 18, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
Though of course, the actual route to NYC doesn't go through Pennsylvania, so that's only two states.
The shortest route, yes. But the real route, no.
The route implicit from the control city, is my point.
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted
So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro. That is in the same state and there is no issue to there being another Putney being nearby like Washington, PA on signs within Pennsylvania, particuraly I-70 as Washington, DC is nearby and connected via I-270 at Frederick, MD.
I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.
I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
Quote from: Ben114 on February 18, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted
So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.
The worst is/was pre-MUTCD when the states were signed with a capital first letter and a small second letter. MassDOT and RIDOT would sign Hartford as "Hartford Ct", which suggests there is street named Hartford Court off that exit (it was compounded at the I-295/US 6 interchange in Johnston by the fact that Exit 9C exits to Hartford
Avenue, but at least those have been corrected. I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too.
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states. The use of "New York" as a control on I-90 West in a couple of places in Boston (near the Hynes Convention Center and formerly at the 128 junction) is kind of ambiguous, since you would follow I-90 West to a point to get to both NY City and NY state. In the case of the former, you would have to travel through CT to get there, unless you took the Mass Pike to the Berkshire Spur and either went down the Taconic or the Thruway (the latter may even include a jog into NJ if you take 17/80 (or 4)/95, or the Palisades to the GWB).
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.
"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
I still see "York Pa" on the I-83 North signs on the Baltimore Beltway; makes me wonder if "York Ma" is there too.
If 2-letter state abbreviations had existed before 1820, maybe we would have seen it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 19, 2019, 08:47:18 PM
I-95 South for Miami in Richmond was mentioned, but also I-85 South references Durham and Atlanta, skipping South Carolina.
I, for one like the long-distance signage, not continuously, but at the one junction is neat. Just like New York City at the US 1 exit going northbound in Woodbridge.
It doesn't actually skip a state, but there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.
I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.
I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.
I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon -- Macon is used as the southbound I-75 control on the entire stretch between there and Atlanta. Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.
Quote from: US 89 on February 20, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2019, 11:21:39 PM
Seems like I remember Valdosta being the actual control city for I-75, particularly south of Macon.
I've never seen Valdosta from anywhere north of Macon ... Once you hit Macon, that's where it switches to Valdosta.
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida". But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta". Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 20, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 20, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
there used to be a sign for I-75 southbound at I-285, northwest of Atlanta, that listed Tampa as a control city.
It's still there. (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8945222,-84.4654296,3a,75y,128.15h,92.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0bmkINtVR3lINTqvH4ttw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I recall also seeing Tampa on I-75 South signage in the southwest quadrant of I-285 where I-85 mixes in from a trip last year.
I guess there's not many big cities along I-75 south of Atlanta besides Macon to sign though.
And that's a new one, the one I remember was farther south.
Quote from: lepidopteran on February 21, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
There used to be a sign on I-75 SB just north of Macon that identified I-475 as a "Bypass to Florida". But at some point that sign was modified or changed to read "Bypass to Valdosta". Perhaps GDOT did not care promoting another state on its signage (think of Georgia as a destination rather than a pass-through state).
Must've been a long time ago. Even in 2003, it read "Bypass to Valdosta". Mentioning Florida makes more sense though, especially for long-distance traffic. I'm sure someone heading from Michigan to Florida and has been on the road all day long is going to say "right, Valdosta. That extremely famous and well known by people all over the country, city of 60,000 is the right way to get to Florida." :-D
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/images475/i-075_sb_app_i-475_ga_21.jpg)
I remember "Bypass To Florida," but the last time I was on that stretch of I-75 was in 2000.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 19, 2019, 08:02:06 PM
Putney, VT is signed like that at the NB freeway ramp to I-91 from VT 9 in Brattleboro.
The BGS replacements at that location now list only "White River Junction" for 91 north (installed late last year). I always wondered why the "Vt." after "Putney" on those old (1985) signs.
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.
"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.
Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.
"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.
Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.
Quote from: Ben114 on February 24, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.
"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.
Interestingly enough, "New York" is a signed control city that I-90/87 interchange near Albany so there's obviously no uniformity on how to refer to NYC on control signage. I-95 in Maryland signs it similarly, even if Virginia prefers "New York City."
My personal preference is to sign the city as New York, as this is the official name of the city.
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 03:55:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
What did you even mean by this? Saint Louis is the control destination for both directions of I-57 at its junction with both I-64 and I-70. A morrist would know perfectly well how to get to St. Louis: exit where the big sign tells you to.
I could have sworn I just saw Memphis and Chicago when I checked street view.
You're confusing me even more.
Memphis is the control city for southbound I-57.
Chicago is the control city for northbound I-57.
As far as I know, those control cities hold true for its entire length.
I-57 doesn't even come within 70 miles of Saint Louis. As such, there would never be any need to sign Saint Louis as a control city on pull-through signs on I-57. The only point at which a morrist on I-57 would need to know how to get to Saint Louis is at the junction with whatever route said morrist would take from I-57 to reach Saint Louis. I therefore assumed you were saying Saint Louis wasn't signed at the junctions with I-64 or I-70. After all, if not there, then what possible location would you be expecting to see Saint Louis signed?
Exit signage along I-57 shown below...
Northbound at the beginning of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/ux8LRNQ9bKy): [St Louis / Chicago] [Louisville]
Northbound at the end of the 57/64 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/6ayJcqkPYyE2): [St Louis] [Chicago]
Southbound at I-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/MXpLUwtZzx72): [Louisville / Memphis] [St Louis]
Southbound at the beginning of the 57/70 duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/Rc2L6Fw2yB42): [Indianapolis] [Memphis / St Louis]
Southbound at the end of the 57/70- duplex (https://goo.gl/maps/r7fbane29TU2): [Memphis] [St Louis]
Northbound at I-70 (https://goo.gl/maps/9eRgR8WgUKo): [St Louis] [Chicago / Indianapolis]
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
What exactly is a morrist, anyway?
I assume it's someone from the town of Morris, IL. I-57 is, after all, the bulk of the best driving route between Morris and Memphis: by taking Route 47 down to Mahomet and then joining I-57 at Champaign, a morrist shaves off a good 30 miles compared to taking I-55 all the way, in addition to avoiding Saint Louis traffic.
US-60 between Sikeston and Poplar Bluff just became Future I-57 yesterday, so this is one step closer to changing anyway. Just need to figure out how to get from Poplar Bluff to Walnut Ridge, and then the southern control city will have to change to Little Rock anyway since I-57 doesn't get anywhere near Memphis.
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.
Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East. I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.
Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East. I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.
Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East. I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.
Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 24, 2019, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Washington, DC's official name is just the "District of Columbia" but I don't think that that is on a single sign as a control city. I think that control cities should be signed in a way that minimizes ambiguity. I suppose that one could sign "New York NY" to illustrate that you're referring to the city and not state.
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).
Quote from: hbelkins on February 25, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 24, 2019, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
I don't know if there are any exceptions, but every sign I have seen with control cities simply says "Washington" for the nation's capital.
Breezewood has I-70 East Controls of Washington D.C. and Baltimore, at everyone's favorite stretch of Interstate along surface US 30
Probably because Washington, Pa., is a major interstate junction. (I-70 and I-79).
Probably I should have refined my statement to only including the adjoining states, Maryland and Virginia. Going two or more states away they might want to get more precise.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 24, 2019, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on February 20, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states.
"New York" is the name of the city, so it wouldn't need to be corrected for that reason. (It may be preferable for other reasons to distinguish the city from the state, however.)
There's also a small ambiguity there though. At the I-90 entrance in Back Bay in Boston, "New York" is the signed control city. Is it referring to the city or state? If one were going from Boston to NYC, the quickest route would start on the Mass Pike after all. However, one could also continue on I-90 towards Albany, thus hitting NY State without leaving the interstate.
That would be one of the "other reasons."
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2019, 08:05:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2019, 08:04:54 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 25, 2019, 12:04:06 AM
In and around Youngstown, OH, ODOT has gotten better in specifically stating New York 'City' as the CC for I-80 East.
Previously, most signage only said New York, which potentially confused those drivers bound for Western NY state/Buffalo taking I-76/I-80 East to SR-11 North to I-90 East. I'm sure a few people saw the "New York" only signs and thought that would get them to Buffalo.
I feel like most people would assume that New York meant the city.
Not if you're in northeastern Ohio.
Don't most people call that area "upstate"?
Those in New York City call it Upstate. I doubt those in Ohio do. It makes no sense for them to do so.
The main control cities on US 95 from Southern Idaho to Winnemucca are Winnemucca and Boise, skipping over Oregon.
Interstate 470 in Ohio uses "Washington PA" as the eastbound control city, skipping West Virginia. Obviously I-470 is a bypass of Wheeling, but the highway never enters the state of Pennsylvania.
https://goo.gl/maps/QRt3gkNK2N32
https://goo.gl/maps/HEfNFXQaoXU2
The converse to this subject is, although not a control city so to speak (at least not in the particular instance) but an unconventional mileage sign that stays in the same state. Both ends of I-10 in Texas have a mileage sign for the opposite end of the state. In Orange westbound there is a sign for the distance to El Paso (850 miles ish) and in Anthony eastbound there is a mileage sign to Beaumont. I always thought the one in Anthony should have a distance to Orange since it is on the state line and Beaumont is not, but the signs reflect official control cities for I-10. Of course there are examples all over the country of unconventional mileage signs (both ends of I-40 giving distances to Wilmington, NC and Barstow, CA is one example) but this is the only existence of an novelty distance sign that is confined to one state that I can think of.
On WB I-80/90 the exit for WB I-80/94 is for Des Moines, skipping IL.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 28, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 28, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
I-70 in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, in Indiana, skipping IL
I-64 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Louisville, after crossing the Mississippi into East St Louis, IL, skipping IN
I-64 in Louisville, KY and in Indiana is signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL
I-24 in Illinois is signed with an eastbound Control of Nashville in Southern IL, skipping KY
I-24 in Kentucky is (kinda) signed with a westbound Control of St Louis, skipping IL...and the other minor issue that I-24 doesn't actually make it to STL
STL is egregious because it's not even signed on I-57 so a morrist would have no way of knowing how to get to St. Louis.
RGT, there is a sign for that.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5921383,-88.981687,3a,75y,296.13h,88.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sABbowtQq-EwdaF93-CbWDg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
And as soon as 24 merges onto 57 North, this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6093709,-88.994807,3a,75y,13.39h,84.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s30utkpcWwk-iKs9r6diwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
^^^^ Those signs were covered, up thread
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 29, 2019, 11:03:32 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2019, 10:30:51 PM
But there's no indication at the end of I-24 onto I-57.
Yes there is. First is on mainline I-24, about 1 mile or so before route termination @ I-57
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fwb24at57a.jpg&hash=d14dca956ed66f3ba775911f21471d4c3bd66324)
Second is on mainline I-57, just north of the I-24 end, after I-24 traffic has joined I-57
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Ftostluse64w.jpg&hash=d2bde8c09cda84fd768243024f546a298ebdad98)
Crediting billburmaster.com for both photos
The first BGS is really the only IDOT/IL acknowledgement of I-24 West having a Control of St Louis
I think there is something to the idea of maybe extenting I-24 West to the I-57/I-64 south side interchange in Mt Vernon, and give the Marion-Mt Vernon segment of I-57 Dual Controls of Chicago-St Louis NB/WB and Memphis-Nashville SB/EB. I am generally not a fan of a multiplex to just terminate further upstream without a divergence, but in this instance, I think there is actually utility to do it, since this stretch of I-57 really is a dual-route of NE-SW movements and NW-SE movements
Quote from: Road Hog on February 18, 2019, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.
Actually, that is not entirely true. Texarkana has a "Bi-State Justice Center where the state line goes through the building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.420765,-94.0443503,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
This is also true with the train station (1 block south) and US District Court (4 blocks north).
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.4253149,-94.0435964,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
Philadelphia was listed as a control for US-13 NB on this now-former sign on the southernmost tunnel island (since removed along with the pier and store to make way for parallel tunnel construction), skipping MD and DE: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9643394,-76.1133732,3a,15y,181.57h,99.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz6d6cEP9PsXqlphwdjM1Gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles. Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city. (I-15 and I-10)
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles. Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city. (I-15 and I-10)
St. Louis on I-24?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles. Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city. (I-15 and I-10)
St. Louis on I-24?
That works. Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.
The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town. I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona. Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs. Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona. You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
I-49 doesn't go through Texas (yet), and even when it does, it won't go through Texarkana TX city limits, so if it's referring to one or the other, it's definitely Arkansas.
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 23, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Philadelphia was listed as a control for US-13 NB on this now-former sign on the southernmost tunnel island (since removed along with the pier and store to make way for parallel tunnel construction), skipping MD and DE: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9643394,-76.1133732,3a,15y,181.57h,99.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz6d6cEP9PsXqlphwdjM1Gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I completely forgot about this one. Shame to see it gone, and hopefully they'll put another one up, though I doubt it. Probably the furthest out control city anywhere in the Hampton Roads area.
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 23, 2020, 02:04:41 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on February 18, 2019, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 17, 2019, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on February 17, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Once upon a time, I saw a plan sheet that indicated Evansville would be the northbound control city on I-69 in Tennessee.
Also, I-49 in Louisiana uses Texarkana as its northbound control city. No word if that is Texarkana, Arkansas or Texas.
Texarkana refers to both. It's one city.
They're two separate cities, as is Kansas City. Lloydminster (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), on the other hand...
I could have sworn hearing something like "Texarkana is the only US city in 2 states" but maybe I misunderstood it.
I believe the only thing the two cities share is the post office. Otherwise they have separate governments, separate police departments, etc.
Actually, that is not entirely true. Texarkana has a "Bi-State Justice Center where the state line goes through the building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.420765,-94.0443503,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
This is also true with the train station (1 block south) and US District Court (4 blocks north).
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bi-State+Justice+Center/@33.4253149,-94.0435964,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x86344132c2a06457:0x9d583c9261db5b70!2sTexarkana,+TX!3b1!8m2!3d33.425125!4d-94.0476882!3m4!1s0x86346a5cffffffff:0x5e0844ccb1fcaef6!8m2!3d33.4208619!4d-94.0431679?hl=en
The two police departments also share a building that straddles the border and often work together on cases, especially since all it takes to cross jurisdictions is to step across the center line of Stateline Avenue. There's a shared jail that, if you are unlucky enough to be a resident of, qualifies you to be incarcerated in both states simultaneously by law, to prevent having to extradite every time they are moved from one part to the other. Also, share a water department and a Chamber of Commerce.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles. Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city. (I-15 and I-10)
St. Louis on I-24?
That works. Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.
The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town. I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona. Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs. Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona. You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.
California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 03:03:37 PM
Honorable mention to this thread would be I-40 west of Flagstaff with a control city of Los Angeles. Not skipping a state, but skipping other control cities like Kingman, Barstow and San Bernardino, but more importantly the only instance I can recall that a control city is used for an interstate that terminates before that city and you have to then use two other interstates to actually reach that city. (I-15 and I-10)
St. Louis on I-24?
That works. Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.
The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town. I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona. Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs. Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona. You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.
California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.
I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today. Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs.
I-8 is similar. from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego. Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma. Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 24, 2020, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
That works. Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.
The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town. I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona. Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs. Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona. You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.
California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.
I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today. Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs.
I-8 is similar. from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego. Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma. Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.
California used to be very much against using out-of-state control cities; they've gotten somewhat better about it.
I once thought, growing up, that places like Truckee, Blythe, and Needles must be important cities because they were on all the highway signs. If I recall correctly, on my first drive out to Las Vegas (early 80s), you didn't see a sign referencing LV until Baker (if then).
Nowadays, Reno is the control city on I-80 starting at Sacramento, and Vegas is mentioned on I-15 at least from I-10. But I think Phoenix may still be just one of the "other Desert Cities".
I-22 in Birmingham uses Memphis as the westbound control city, skipping Mississippi, though interchanges in Walker and Marion counties use a combination of either Hamilton or Tupelo. That makes 3 routes (I-22, I-55, I-57 that have Memphis as the control city from 2 states out. And if I-69 south out of Evansville uses Memphis it will be 4.
Quote from: GaryA on July 24, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 24, 2020, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 23, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 23, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
That works. Sorry, I am not as familiar with that as I am I-40.
The other thing about Arizona v California, you have two states where one has control cities for very far destinations, while the other has control cities for anything that looks like a town. I-10, for example, from downtown Phoenix westbound shows Los Angeles as a control city, while traveling eastbound from Los Angeles, California has control cities for San Bernardino, Palm Springs, Indio and Blythe, (and who can forget "Desert Cities") all ignored by Arizona. Also as you head west from Phoenix, not only is Los Angeles the control cities, but you get distances to Arizona destinations first and then Los Angeles on distance signs. Then you cross the Colorado and you get distances to all these places that before that were a mystery while you were in Arizona. You don't get mention of Los Angeles until about Indio.
California should sign Phoenix on I-10 at least as far east as San Bernardino, and definitely Palm Springs. It should also be singed at the I-5 interchange.
I think it's because those California signs are so so old, they date back to a time when Phoenix was a far away good-sized town, not the mega powerhouse it is today. Either that or California is another state that doesn't like to mention anything outside it's state borders on it's signs.
I-8 is similar. from it's eastern terminus at Casa Grande at I-10, the westbound control city in perpetuity is San Diego. Eastbound from San Diego, control cities are El Cajon and El Centro, then finally, Winterhaven, not Yuma. Then past Yuma, Tucson is the Control City along with Gila Bend.
California used to be very much against using out-of-state control cities; they've gotten somewhat better about it.
I once thought, growing up, that places like Truckee, Blythe, and Needles must be important cities because they were on all the highway signs. If I recall correctly, on my first drive out to Las Vegas (early 80s), you didn't see a sign referencing LV until Baker (if then).
Nowadays, Reno is the control city on I-80 starting at Sacramento, and Vegas is mentioned on I-15 at least from I-10. But I think Phoenix may still be just one of the "other Desert Cities".
I feel your pain. Growing up in Texas, another state that's not so excited about signing destinations outside the state, I really didn't get to know too much about the world outside Texas (compounded by me growing up in central Texas were it takes you forever to get even close to a state line). Now there are exceptions: I-20 east of Dallas has Shreveport as a control city, I-10 east of Beaumont has Lake Charles, I-35 southbound just north of Laredo having a distance sign to Monterey, but the one glaring one I can remember it I-35E in downtown Dallas being signed north for a control city of Denton. I always felt Denton could be skipped and have gone straight to Oklahoma City. Most state and US highways in Texas don't mention cities outside Texas, and if they do, it's with the obligatory " Clovis, NM" kinda gives you the impression of "I didn't want to mention this city, but I feel obligated to, and I want you to know, it's not our city!" I know a lot of states do that, but Texas is pretty consistent on if they finally get around to telling you about a town out of it's borders, they totally say, I don't take ownership of this place.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.
As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 19, 2019, 10:03:02 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on February 18, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
Quote from: US 89 on February 18, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 18, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
The default anywhere would be the same state if the state is not posted
So to throw out an example: you're saying the control cities from Salt Lake City should be "Reno NV", "Las Vegas NV", and "Cheyenne WY" on every sign? That seems like overkill, especially when there's no confusion about which state the city in question is in.
That's what they do in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.
The worst is/was pre-MUTCD when the states were signed with a capital first letter and a small second letter. MassDOT and RIDOT would sign Hartford as "Hartford Ct", which suggests there is street named Hartford Court off that exit (clipped) but at least those have been corrected.
Including state abbreviations with out of state control cities has never been either a MUTCD requirement or recommendation. And you are correct, the last examples of mixed-case state abbreviations in Massachusetts on Interstate and freeway guide signs were eliminated as part of the sign update projects done within the last decade, although there may be a few stragglers out there on secondary road "paddle" signs.
Quote
One thing that should be corrected is when "New York" is used. It should be "New York City", since MUTCD discourages the use of control states. The use of "New York" as a control on I-90 West in a couple of places in Boston (near the Hynes Convention Center and formerly at the 128 junction) is kind of ambiguous, since you would follow I-90 West to a point to get to both NY City and NY state. In the case of the former, you would have to travel through CT to get there, unless you took the Mass Pike to the Berkshire Spur and either went down the Taconic or the Thruway (the latter may even include a jog into NJ if you take 17/80 (or 4)/95, or the Palisades to the GWB).
Apart from one or two signs within Downtown Boston that still say New York, the 'long distance' control city on signs along and for I-90/MassPike west is now Albany NY. The control cities on I-90/MassPike for I-84 in Sturbridge are Hartford CT and NY City (obviously, NY City NY would be redundant).
Quote from: roadman on July 24, 2020, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.
As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.
Rhode Island should also put New London on signs.
Quote from: Takumi on January 29, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
In Maryland, I-95 northbound is signed for NYC, skipping three states -- Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.
There was also at one time a New York sign on I-95 in NoVA.
Why is it that the I-95 signs in Maryland don't mention Philly? I'm guessing it's because they intend to direct NYC traffic via the Delaware Memorial Bridge and the Turnpike, I suppose.
Quote
End of I-195 in Providence has only New York as the control for I-95 S.
As does I-95 south in RI, both in Providence and going south of there.
Quote
Rhode Island should also put New London on signs.
Yes. Use NY City for the far control city, and alternate New London and New Haven for the near control city.
Quote
New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn’t even mentioned until after Albert Lea.
Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I’ve also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)
Quote from: KCRoadFan on July 24, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
Quote
New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn't even mentioned until after Albert Lea.
Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I've also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)
WI is the opposite. There are only a handful of in-state control cities on Interstates.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on July 24, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
Quote
New Mexico, on the other hand, is the opposite of Arizona. They pretty much use the next town on the route as a control city, with the exception of I-25 North being signed for Albuquerque starting at the beginning of the freeway. However, places like Deming, Santa Rosa, Gallup, and Las Vegas make no sense as control cities imo.
Minnesota is a lot like that too. On I-35 south of the Twin Cities, the control city is consistently Albert Lea, right up to the town itself. Des Moines isn't even mentioned until after Albert Lea.
Also, on I-94 west of St. Cloud, using Moorhead as a control city instead of the adjacent, and larger, city of Fargo, ND. (The distance signs alternate between Moorhead and Fargo, which are pretty much the same mileage, but I think the signs at the westbound on-ramps tend to use Moorhead; I've also seen on-ramp signs with Alexandria on them.)
Louisiana is one too except for I-20 west of Shreveport which uses Dallas over Marshall. Even I-10 E Bound from New Orleans uses Slidell and east of I-12 uses Bay St. Louis over Biloxi or even Gulfport. Some will argue that its because I-10 once ended at MS 607 and was not completed east of there for years, but LaDOTD loves to use local places as even on I-12 you have Hammond over Baton Rouge going west from Slidell and they also use the same Hammond for I-55 from I-10 instead of using Jackson, MS.
Then to fit the OP you have Roanoke on I-70 for I-81 south that skips over WV.
In Petersburg, VA you have Miami for I-95 south skipping over three states.
In IL for I-57 South at interstate junctions, that notorious Memphis skipping over 2 states.
SB US-522 has Winchester, VA as a control city on EB I-70 in Hancock, MD, skipping over WV (https://goo.gl/maps/vYouXhroBQm1zPeP8)
The same can be said from EB I-68 (https://goo.gl/maps/99YqztcoUdaUwghVA) and WB I-70 (https://goo.gl/maps/c764MeM38eNHgwgY6)
There is a town (Berkeley Springs) in WV between Hancock and Winchester (with a 25 mph speed limit to boot)
Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South. If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 26, 2020, 03:00:39 AM
Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South. If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).
What does US 13 use in Norfolk?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 26, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 26, 2020, 03:00:39 AM
Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South. If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).
What does US 13 use in Norfolk?
Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8721407,-76.1955464,3a,75y,1.59h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBaY59uvycbd89399RYNYgg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8969211,-76.1480952,3a,75y,78.74h,88.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saVa9vY6CJCjqW6gj-n5RhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9017414,-76.1299408,3a,75y,52.56h,95.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgXqkntGQAoTouNPap5fDDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9037047,-76.1294061,3a,75y,95.36h,91.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svZFOUAvDz_3GP6hslvYOiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 26, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 26, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 26, 2020, 03:00:39 AM
Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South. If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).
What does US 13 use in Norfolk?
Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8721407,-76.1955464,3a,75y,1.59h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBaY59uvycbd89399RYNYgg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8969211,-76.1480952,3a,75y,78.74h,88.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saVa9vY6CJCjqW6gj-n5RhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9017414,-76.1299408,3a,75y,52.56h,95.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgXqkntGQAoTouNPap5fDDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9037047,-76.1294061,3a,75y,95.36h,91.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svZFOUAvDz_3GP6hslvYOiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
I think it should have Sailsbury or even Philadelphia on some signs.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 26, 2020, 11:13:43 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 26, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 26, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 26, 2020, 03:00:39 AM
Speaking of US 13, Norfolk is used as a control (along with Salisbury) for the Puncheon Run Connector exit on DE 1 South. If you ask me, I wish DelDOT would use Norfolk as a control (along with Dover) for the DE 1 exit (Exit 4) on I-95 South (NB would be Christiana/Dover).
What does US 13 use in Norfolk?
Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8721407,-76.1955464,3a,75y,1.59h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBaY59uvycbd89399RYNYgg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8969211,-76.1480952,3a,75y,78.74h,88.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saVa9vY6CJCjqW6gj-n5RhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9017414,-76.1299408,3a,75y,52.56h,95.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgXqkntGQAoTouNPap5fDDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9037047,-76.1294061,3a,75y,95.36h,91.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svZFOUAvDz_3GP6hslvYOiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
I think it should have Sailsbury or even Philadelphia on some signs.
One used to exist on the CBBT facility itself for Philadelphia, though has been since removed due to construction related to the parallel tunnel project.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9643394,-76.1133732,3a,23.1y,186.26h,95.23t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz6d6cEP9PsXqlphwdjM1Gg!2e0!5s20140901T000000!7i13312!8i6656
I'm going to revive an old thread...Found another one of these in Illinois that I didn't know about - Tulsa signed as a control on I-255 South in the Metro East of St Louis.
Did some driving around today, and noticed this. I've never seen Tulsa on the signs from the I-64 EB or WB exits nor the 55/70 exits to I-255, but on the mainline, it is there. Of course, part of the reason I never noticed this - today was my first time actually driving on I-255
IDOT recently completely rebuilt I-255 between I-64 and IL 15 this summer (with the interstate closed during the construction) so this BGS in the image from billburmaster.com's page on I-255 has been replaced, but the Memphis/Tulsa co-controls are still posted. I thought about stopping to take a picture of the new sign, but I didn't this trip - it is a pretty standard BGS. I was just shocked by Tulsa
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2F255at64c.jpg&hash=597bec4b88768c7494fab95fb4538a684db864af)
Sourced from http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/interstate/255.html
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
US 50 enters I-255 here from I-64
I kinda wish I took a picture of the new BGS, now - I don't think US 50 is signed on the new one. If it is, it certainly didn't stand out to me like Tulsa did
Maybe I'll go for another drive sometime and grab it
In was being somewhat humorous on the 57 thread but IDOT just might sign it Dallas or Texas at its origin!
I assume it's because 55 splits off to meet 57 and the next Interstate is 44.
50 splits off of 44 and In Illinois off 64 though as we have pointed out 64 and 59 can both get you to Cincinnati in about the same distance.
WVDOH uses Grafton and Romney as the control cities for US 50, skipping over the Garrett County part of Maryland. Red House (at junction of US 50 and US 219) is used as a control city for US 219, although it's not clear if Maryland considers it a control city for US 50 as well because the only other state route intersection (at MD 560) lacks destination signage.
This is a case where I've thought WV should use Red House as a control city. Grafton to Romney is about 87 miles, and Red House is a reasonably well known location in the area.
US-6 in Napoleon, OH exits US-24 with control cities of Kendallville, IN, and Chicago, IL.
I also remember seeing Chicago on a distance sign on US-30 in Ohio. I can't find it on GSV so it may have been removed.
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Duluth is signed at the western US 41/M-28 split, skipping Superior and Wisconsin.
Quote from: I-55 on December 13, 2020, 01:57:49 AM
US-6 in Napoleon, OH exits US-24 with control cities of Kendallville, IN, and Chicago, IL.
I also remember seeing Chicago on a distance sign on US-30 in Ohio. I can't find it on GSV so it may have been removed.
Somewhere I have a picture (or two) of that sign, but I didn't realize it was gone (the last time by there was in February thanks to COVID) despite it being a favorite. Three cities listed, from three different states (Van Wert, Fort Wayne, Chicago). It was just west of OH 66. The sign after the Middle Point exit shows only Van Wert and Fort Wayne as always.
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Kinda like the west side of I-275 around Cincinnati. I don't think I ever saw Kentucky or Ohio listing (Lawrenceburg), Indiana as a control city for that +/- 2-mile section.
Quote from: thenetwork on December 14, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Kinda like the west side of I-275 around Cincinnati. I don't think I ever saw Kentucky or Ohio listing (Lawrenceburg), Indiana as a control city for that +/- 2-mile section.
The KY 8 approach to the I-275 interchange lists Lawrenceburg as a destination.
I didn't see this listed on the thread, but the I-84 and I-380 split heading out of Scranton references New England for I-84 (skipping NY) and New York City for I-380 (skipping NJ).
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2020, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 14, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 14, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Ohio and Pennsylvania both skip over West Virginia for their signed control cities along US 30. WVDOH uses Chester, WV as a control city in addition to Pittsburgh, PA and East Liverpool, OH as used by the other states.
Isn't US 30 in WV for like 2 miles?
Kinda like the west side of I-275 around Cincinnati. I don't think I ever saw Kentucky or Ohio listing (Lawrenceburg), Indiana as a control city for that +/- 2-mile section.
The KY 8 approach to the I-275 interchange lists Lawrenceburg as a destination.
So does the Airport, KY 237, and Graves Road interchange approaches.
Airport: https://goo.gl/maps/oFXmp9duyagED9XA8
KY 237: https://goo.gl/maps/ABhH7ZTVH4hk8w787
The only two mentions of Lawrenceburg in Ohio are on two different mileage signs--one after the US 127/Hamilton Ave. interchange (WB on I-275) and one SB on I-275 after the I-74/I-275 western split. The control point for I-275 South toward Indiana is Kentucky both at I-275/I-74 western split and at the Kilby Rd. interchange.
I-275 West: https://goo.gl/maps/vmHymjvUTVdEJi9d6
I-275 South: https://goo.gl/maps/yanrhfk3bGswCUhD6
Kilby Rd.: https://goo.gl/maps/nqT5DMEp8WBsP8FX8
Quote from: PurdueBill on December 14, 2020, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: I-55 on December 13, 2020, 01:57:49 AM
US-6 in Napoleon, OH exits US-24 with control cities of Kendallville, IN, and Chicago, IL.
I also remember seeing Chicago on a distance sign on US-30 in Ohio. I can't find it on GSV so it may have been removed.
Somewhere I have a picture (or two) of that sign, but I didn't realize it was gone (the last time by there was in February thanks to COVID) despite it being a favorite. Three cities listed, from three different states (Van Wert, Fort Wayne, Chicago). It was just west of OH 66. The sign after the Middle Point exit shows only Van Wert and Fort Wayne as always.
Both signs listing Chicago are gone. The one west of the US 224 interchange was also taken down. Maybe because US 30 does not go through Chicago proper?
I thought these signs were informative, especially if a motorist wanted to shunpike from that region of Ohio. The problem was Indiana did not have any mileage signs along US 30 listing Chicago on them.
It appears that these distance signs were taken down sometime between 2014 and 2018 (probably 2016). Here is the one
PurdueBill mentioned: https://goo.gl/maps/gcWmFKgt9jfStfLf6
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Just seeing Tulsa signposted anywhere in Illinois is gobsmacking, but Memphis did set a precedent on I-57.
Isn't Nashville also signed on I-24 down south too?
Quote from: Road Hog on December 15, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Just seeing Tulsa signposted anywhere in Illinois is gobsmacking, but Memphis did set a precedent on I-57.
Isn't Nashville also signed on I-24 down south too?
First signed along I-64 EB just before reaching I-57/Mt Vernon IL, on an advance BGS for I-24, directing that traffic to follow I-57 South
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fillinois%2Fimages%2Fto24e640911.jpg&hash=8c1bee13ce22b17ba8378937f695478731fca1ac)
Sourced from http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/interstate/24.html
Quote from: Road Hog on December 15, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Just seeing Tulsa signposted anywhere in Illinois is gobsmacking, but Memphis did set a precedent on I-57.
Isn't Nashville also signed on I-24 down south too?
I am inclined to think that Springfield should be signed instead.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 15, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 15, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Just seeing Tulsa signposted anywhere in Illinois is gobsmacking, but Memphis did set a precedent on I-57.
Isn't Nashville also signed on I-24 down south too?
I am inclined to think that Springfield should be signed instead.
MoDOT uses Tulsa for I-44, both in Downtown STL and on the I-270 Beltway, so being consistent is correct with IDOT signing the I-255 part of the Beltway with the controls of the Radials
I just think Tulsa should be posted on the BGSs on I-55/I-70 SB/WB and I-64 WB for the I-255 SB exit, in addition to the mainline
Far radial controls on a Beltway/Bypass route need to be signed on the radial approaches that would use it, if you want to direct traffic to use the Beltway/Bypass, anyway
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 12, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
US 50 enters I-255 here from I-64
I kinda wish I took a picture of the new BGS, now - I don't think US 50 is signed on the new one. If it is, it certainly didn't stand out to me like Tulsa did
Maybe I'll go for another drive sometime and grab it
it still does, however the freeway is closed for repairs when I was there. However still in September of this year US 50 was still signed there.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2020, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 12, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
US 50 enters I-255 here from I-64
I kinda wish I took a picture of the new BGS, now - I don't think US 50 is signed on the new one. If it is, it certainly didn't stand out to me like Tulsa did
Maybe I'll go for another drive sometime and grab it
it still does, however the freeway is closed for repairs when I was there. However still in September of this year US 50 was still signed there.
I'll try to swing back up that way later this week or the weekend and if that BGS has been replaced, I'll snap a picture this time
IDOT hosts the pictures of the reopening ceremony/Press Conference. Pretty sure the BGS in question is in the background, but we only see the back of it...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50537059652_f1c490ac0c_w_d.jpg)
Sourced from https://www.flickr.com/photos/idot_illinois/sets/72157716636181408/
They had I-255 and US 67 (???) shields set up for the reopening ceremony surrounding the podium...Are MoDOT and IDOT considering moving US 67 to I-255 instead of thru St Louis and Alton?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50536186203_bcfee59fde_w_d.jpg)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 15, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 15, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Seeing "Tulsa" paired with "US-50" is the real eye-opener here, considering US-50 doesn't even get remotely close to Oklahoma at any point.
Just seeing Tulsa signposted anywhere in Illinois is gobsmacking, but Memphis did set a precedent on I-57.
Isn't Nashville also signed on I-24 down south too?
I am inclined to think that Springfield should be signed instead.
Springfield would make a better control city for I-44 WB, were it not for the fact that the next major city on I-55 NB is...Springfield IL. You could do something like you see in Memphis ("Jackson Miss" vs "Jackson Tenn") and do "Springfield Mo" and "Springfield Ill", but using "Tulsa" and "Chicago" neatly sidesteps the issue entirely.
Once you get out of metro St. Louis on I-44 the control city does, in fact, change to Springfield (and Joplin once you pass Springfield).
Why not Rolla? Too small for a control city?
Other than at the bottom of the distance signs, where does Springfield appear as a control city between STL and Rolla (Springfield, Mo EXIT 5A sign on I-270 does not count)? Even after I-270, the control city is consistently Rolla, like on the APL at MO 141. If you were to sign Rolla as a replacement for Tulsa, that would be like replacing KC with Columbia, or Chicago for Springfield, IL.
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 16, 2020, 04:35:33 PM
They had I-255 and US 67 (???) shields set up for the reopening ceremony surrounding the podium...Are MoDOT and IDOT considering moving US 67 to I-255 instead of thru St Louis and Alton?
That would make a lot of sense, especially to emphasize that route to Alton as a bypass. IL 255 could be changed over to US 67 with no duplex. Instead of turning left to continue on Lindbergh, NB US 67 could turn right and enter I-255.
However, that would mean Lindbergh north of I-64/US 40 would have no highway designation unless MoDOT decided to give it a 3-digit x67 number. St. Louis already has 267 and 367, so perhaps 467?
Quote from: FrCorySticha on December 16, 2020, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 16, 2020, 04:35:33 PM
They had I-255 and US 67 (???) shields set up for the reopening ceremony surrounding the podium...Are MoDOT and IDOT considering moving US 67 to I-255 instead of thru St Louis and Alton?
That would make a lot of sense, especially to emphasize that route to Alton as a bypass. IL 255 could be changed over to US 67 with no duplex. Instead of turning left to continue on Lindbergh, NB US 67 could turn right and enter I-255.
However, that would mean Lindbergh north of I-64/US 40 would have no highway designation unless MoDOT decided to give it a 3-digit x67 number. St. Louis already has 267 and 367, so perhaps 467?
Could just sign Lindbergh, the Alton Bridge, and US 67 in Alton up to Godfrey as Business US 67
I have no idea why the US 67 signs at the ceremony, tho. The press clips I read just basically said the project opened early, and came in under budget. There was no announcement about moving US 67 onto I-255, at least covered in the news, anyway
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 16, 2020, 09:06:14 PM
Could just sign Lindbergh, the Alton Bridge, and US 67 in Alton up to Godfrey as Business US 67
That would work, though MO likes its 3-digit state routes for old US highway alignments.
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 16, 2020, 09:06:14 PM
I have no idea why the US 67 signs at the ceremony, tho. The press clips I read just basically said the project opened early, and came in under budget. There was no announcement about moving US 67 onto I-255, at least covered in the news, anyway
I did see something about upgrades to US 67 north of the IL 255 merger, and that they're part of the same Rebuild Illinois Plan: https://wlds.com/i-255-to-reopen-a-month-ahead-of-schedule-preliminary-work-starts-on-u-s-67-expansion/
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 16, 2020, 07:32:07 PM
Other than at the bottom of the distance signs, where does Springfield appear as a control city between STL and Rolla (Springfield, Mo EXIT 5A sign on I-270 does not count)? Even after I-270, the control city is consistently Rolla, like on the APL at MO 141. If you were to sign Rolla as a replacement for Tulsa, that would be like replacing KC with Columbia, or Chicago for Springfield, IL.
Rolla is way too tiny too. That would be more like replacing Kansas City with Warrenton on I-70. At least Columbia is a significant city with a division 1 university. If you wanted to keep a city in Missouri that was not Springfield, I would use Joplin.
South of Lamar, CO, US287/385 lists the mileage for Dumas, TX without acknowledging Oklahoma.
Chris