Left Lane Camping

[kalvado]

An other way to ask - Who is worse, the left lane camper, or "keep right no matter what" driver turning others into tailgaters by moving right at less than a safe distance?
Upstream in this thread, latter was deemed acceptable...

It should be noted that if you passed someone, you are moving at a faster speed than they are. Therefore, all other factors aside, the distance between the two cars will continue to increase. Unless the person moving right cuts in close enough to force the person behind them to brake, which is extremely rare in my experience, there is nothing wrong with moving right as soon as you have completed the pass.
Under no normal circumstances does moving right turn the guy behind you into a tailgater (unless he/she decides to keep up with you, but that's not strictly relevant here).

in your dreams. Often they slow down after a lane change...
What you should really do is to ask a friend with a dashcam to be a passing target for you - and try to look at your driving from outside. Most likely you'll be surprised...

[kphoger]

An other way to ask - Who is worse, the left lane camper, or "keep right no matter what" driver turning others into tailgaters by moving right at less than a safe distance?
Upstream in this thread, latter was deemed acceptable...

It should be noted that if you passed someone, you are moving at a faster speed than they are. Therefore, all other factors aside, the distance between the two cars will continue to increase. Unless the person moving right cuts in close enough to force the person behind them to brake, which is extremely rare in my experience, there is nothing wrong with moving right as soon as you have completed the pass.
Under no normal circumstances does moving right turn the guy behind you into a tailgater (unless he/she decides to keep up with you, but that's not strictly relevant here).

I agree.  Any unsafe following distance you created by moving right early only increases with every passing second.  And, the more of a difference between your speeds, the more quickly that following distance expands.  And, and, if there was room for you to move right to begin with, then there's generally not any obstruction in that lane to cause you to brake suddenly anyway.  And, and, and, choosing that small sliver of risk over the imminent and apparent risk presented by a tailgater riding your bumper is, IMHO, a wise choice to make.

Now, this is banking on the "normal circumstances" part of your statement.  Obviously, circumstances can be less than normal, but I agree that those are the exception rather than the rule.

Often they slow down after a lane change...

That's annoying, isn't it?  Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway–leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

[kalvado]

An other way to ask - Who is worse, the left lane camper, or "keep right no matter what" driver turning others into tailgaters by moving right at less than a safe distance?
Upstream in this thread, latter was deemed acceptable...

It should be noted that if you passed someone, you are moving at a faster speed than they are. Therefore, all other factors aside, the distance between the two cars will continue to increase. Unless the person moving right cuts in close enough to force the person behind them to brake, which is extremely rare in my experience, there is nothing wrong with moving right as soon as you have completed the pass.
Under no normal circumstances does moving right turn the guy behind you into a tailgater (unless he/she decides to keep up with you, but that's not strictly relevant here).

I agree.  Any unsafe following distance you created by moving right early only increases with every passing second.  And, the more of a difference between your speeds, the more quickly that following distance expands.  And, and, if there was room for you to move right to begin with, then there's generally not any obstruction in that lane to cause you to brake suddenly anyway.  And, and, and, choosing that small sliver of risk over the imminent and apparent risk presented by a tailgater riding your bumper is, IMHO, a wise choice to make.

Now, this is banking on the "normal circumstances" part of your statement.  Obviously, circumstances can be less than normal, but I agree that those are the exception rather than the rule.

Often they slow down after a lane change...

That's annoying, isn't it?  Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway–leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

Annoying.. but  changing lane is a choice, braking to avoid hitting nomatterwatter is not.
Space in front of my car is MY space to control, not yours.

[J N Winkler]

I think a factor the cut-right crowd underestimates is the great annoyance of having a large solid angle suddenly subtended by a car that cut in front.  And while it is true that an overtake at whatever speed implies a speed differential, it can be quite small to begin with and dwindle down to less than zero.  And a recent victim of cutting-in who stays on cruise control in the expectation of a following distance continuing to open up is still vulnerable to additional misbehavior like brake-checking.

That's annoying, isn't it?  Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway–leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

When maintaining position with regard to other vehicles (my personal preference is to choose speed and position so that other vehicles are at or near the vanishing point in both directions--on the highway I am very, very antisocial), one has to have appreciation for the total strategic picture.

I find the annoying behavior you describe is often a response to someone sitting in the left lane on cruise control and passing one car after another without ever adding speed to complete each overtake at a reasonable speed differential.  Putting on extra speed is one way of dealing with the misbehaving vehicle without losing freedom to maneuver or slowing down to the point where cars you have just overtaken must now overtake you.

[kphoger]

Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway–leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

I find the annoying behavior you describe is often a response to someone sitting in the left lane on cruise control and passing one car after another without ever adding speed to complete each overtake at a reasonable speed differential.

More often, it appears to be due to their being distracted by a phone conversation.  All of a sudden, they realize they're blocking traffic, so they both move over to the right and speed up.  Well, all they've succeeded in doing, practically, is to make the first car trying to pass them the new left lane clog.

[jeffandnicole]

An other way to ask - Who is worse, the left lane camper, or "keep right no matter what" driver turning others into tailgaters by moving right at less than a safe distance?
Upstream in this thread, latter was deemed acceptable...

It should be noted that if you passed someone, you are moving at a faster speed than they are. Therefore, all other factors aside, the distance between the two cars will continue to increase. Unless the person moving right cuts in close enough to force the person behind them to brake, which is extremely rare in my experience, there is nothing wrong with moving right as soon as you have completed the pass.
Under no normal circumstances does moving right turn the guy behind you into a tailgater (unless he/she decides to keep up with you, but that's not strictly relevant here).

I agree.  Any unsafe following distance you created by moving right early only increases with every passing second.  And, the more of a difference between your speeds, the more quickly that following distance expands.  And, and, if there was room for you to move right to begin with, then there's generally not any obstruction in that lane to cause you to brake suddenly anyway.  And, and, and, choosing that small sliver of risk over the imminent and apparent risk presented by a tailgater riding your bumper is, IMHO, a wise choice to make.

Now, this is banking on the "normal circumstances" part of your statement.  Obviously, circumstances can be less than normal, but I agree that those are the exception rather than the rule.

Often they slow down after a lane change...

That's annoying, isn't it?  Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway—leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

Annoying.. but  changing lane is a choice, braking to avoid hitting nomatterwatter is not.
Space in front of my car is MY space to control, not yours.

The only space you can control is the space you're in.  If someone decides to merge in front of you, there's not a darn thing you can do about it, other than what you decide to do with your vehicle, whether it be slow down, merge over, maintain your speed, speed up, slam into the guardrail, etc, etc.

[kalvado]

An other way to ask - Who is worse, the left lane camper, or "keep right no matter what" driver turning others into tailgaters by moving right at less than a safe distance?
Upstream in this thread, latter was deemed acceptable...

It should be noted that if you passed someone, you are moving at a faster speed than they are. Therefore, all other factors aside, the distance between the two cars will continue to increase. Unless the person moving right cuts in close enough to force the person behind them to brake, which is extremely rare in my experience, there is nothing wrong with moving right as soon as you have completed the pass.
Under no normal circumstances does moving right turn the guy behind you into a tailgater (unless he/she decides to keep up with you, but that's not strictly relevant here).

I agree.  Any unsafe following distance you created by moving right early only increases with every passing second.  And, the more of a difference between your speeds, the more quickly that following distance expands.  And, and, if there was room for you to move right to begin with, then there's generally not any obstruction in that lane to cause you to brake suddenly anyway.  And, and, and, choosing that small sliver of risk over the imminent and apparent risk presented by a tailgater riding your bumper is, IMHO, a wise choice to make.

Now, this is banking on the "normal circumstances" part of your statement.  Obviously, circumstances can be less than normal, but I agree that those are the exception rather than the rule.

Often they slow down after a lane change...

That's annoying, isn't it?  Also annoying are those drivers who dawdle in the left lane while people get impatient behind them, then speed up after moving right so no one can pass each other anyway–leaving everyone behind the now-first car in line still impatient and stuck.

Annoying.. but  changing lane is a choice, braking to avoid hitting nomatterwatter is not.
Space in front of my car is MY space to control, not yours.

The only space you can control is the space you're in.  If someone decides to merge in front of you, there's not a darn thing you can do about it, other than what you decide to do with your vehicle, whether it be slow down, merge over, maintain your speed, speed up, slam into the guardrail, etc, etc.

Well, if it is dark - them not seeing me is always an option. So I increase my visibility by turning on high beams...

[vdeane]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Slowing down after passing can be the result of asshats speeding up when someone tries to pass but slowing back down when that person gives up, forcing them to significantly increase speed to complete a pass.  Of course, this just results in the person who was passed trying to play leapfrog.  I don't know why, but it seems like some people really hate being passed.

[kalvado]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Slowing down after passing can be the result of asshats speeding up when someone tries to pass but slowing back down when that person gives up, forcing them to significantly increase speed to complete a pass.  Of course, this just results in the person who was passed trying to play leapfrog.  I don't know why, but it seems like some people really hate being passed.

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

[jakeroot]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

[kalvado]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

[jeffandnicole]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

Seriously? You say you intentionally try to momentarily blind people by using your high beams, then say people don't intentionally cause unsafe situations?

You may want to consider what you say online. Those things are permanent, and can be used against you.

[kalvado]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

Seriously? You say you intentionally try to momentarily blind people by using your high beams, then say people don't intentionally cause unsafe situations?

You may want to consider what you say online. Those things are permanent, and can be used against you.

Why, I am just advertising my accident avoidance technique. It is done exclusively in unsafe condition created by lack of situational awareness of other driver, when I am in the imminent danger of potentially deadly high speed collision. My actions are directed solely at resolving that underlying condition... Horn is another option, but on a highway it is often less than efficient as source of sound is difficult to identify.

[bzakharin]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

I beg to differ. I've had a situation where I accidentally cut someone off (that is to say, merged in ahead of someone and was forced to slam the breaks almost immediately because of what was unexpectedly happening ahead of me in my new lane). The person I cut off then passed me and slammed *his* brakes for the express purpose of "returning the favor". How would you describe that behavior?

Seriously? You say you intentionally try to momentarily blind people by using your high beams, then say people don't intentionally cause unsafe situations?

The key word is intentionally

[J N Winkler]

I beg to differ. I've had a situation where I accidentally cut someone off (that is to say, merged in ahead of someone and was forced to slam the brakes almost immediately because of what was unexpectedly happening ahead of me in my new lane). The person I cut off then passed me and slammed *his* brakes for the express purpose of "returning the favor". How would you describe that behavior?

This is called "brake-checking."  As a misbehavior I expect it to become more common because of all the brake-checking videos posted to Facebook (often by truckers' magazines looking to develop virality) that effectively teach drivers how to do it and normalize it.

In practice, a defensive driver who is scrupulous about maintaining adequate following distance will generally never be brake-checked.  I cannot remember the last time I have been brake-checked on a freeway mainline.

[bzakharin]

I beg to differ. I've had a situation where I accidentally cut someone off (that is to say, merged in ahead of someone and was forced to slam the brakes almost immediately because of what was unexpectedly happening ahead of me in my new lane). The person I cut off then passed me and slammed *his* brakes for the express purpose of "returning the favor". How would you describe that behavior?

This is called "brake-checking."  As a misbehavior I expect it to become more common because of all the brake-checking videos posted to Facebook (often by truckers' magazines looking to develop virality) that effectively teach drivers how to do it and normalize it.

In practice, a defensive driver who is scrupulous about maintaining adequate following distance will generally never be brake-checked.  I cannot remember the last time I have been brake-checked on a freeway mainline.

Never heard  the term. It wasn't a freeway, but a two-lane divided highway with traffic lights. Whether I could avoid the situation by slowing down when the car moved in front of me is up for debate (and I don't remember the incident well enough to argue anyway), but regardless, it's definitely a case of intentionally causing an unsafe situation, including for himself (sure, had there been an accident, I might have been deemed at fault for hitting him, but I would still be hitting him, potentially harming him and his car)

[vdeane]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

Seriously? You say you intentionally try to momentarily blind people by using your high beams, then say people don't intentionally cause unsafe situations?

You may want to consider what you say online. Those things are permanent, and can be used against you.

Why, I am just advertising my accident avoidance technique. It is done exclusively in unsafe condition created by lack of situational awareness of other driver, when I am in the imminent danger of potentially deadly high speed collision. My actions are directed solely at resolving that underlying condition... Horn is another option, but on a highway it is often less than efficient as source of sound is difficult to identify.

Honestly, it's probably caused by the fact that many drivers here feel entitled to merge onto a road and feel it's the other driver's responsibility to let them in.  Better to just slow down or move over.

[jeffandnicole]

So then they're blinded and probably stopped using their mirrors...

Well, if they didn't see me to begin with - no big loss..

It's possible they saw you, but were f-ing with you.

I don't believe people would intentionally cause unsafe situation - so it must be lack of visibility that caused the issue.

Seriously? You say you intentionally try to momentarily blind people by using your high beams, then say people don't intentionally cause unsafe situations?

You may want to consider what you say online. Those things are permanent, and can be used against you.

Why, I am just advertising my accident avoidance technique. It is done exclusively in unsafe condition created by lack of situational awareness of other driver, when I am in the imminent danger of potentially deadly high speed collision. My actions are directed solely at resolving that underlying condition... Horn is another option, but on a highway it is often less than efficient as source of sound is difficult to identify.

Honestly, it's probably caused by the fact that many drivers here feel entitled to merge onto a road and feel it's the other driver's responsibility to let them in.  Better to just slow down or move over.

Unfortunately, too many drivers already in the road slow down to allow the incoming driver in.  In most cases, the driver already on the road would easily pass the slower vehicle entering the road if they had simply maintained their speed.

And, since someone on the highway entered the highway at some point, they probably merged over too soon to begin with, under that belief that they get priority when entering the road.

[vdeane]

Around here that belief is very common.  People also don't accelerate until they're already in the travel lane, either.  I've lost count of the number of times when I had to slow down to let someone in when they could have easily slipped in front of me if only they had used the ramp and acceleration lane for what they're designed for.

[J N Winkler]

I've lost count of the number of times when I had to slow down to let someone in when they could have easily slipped in front of me if only they had used the ramp and acceleration lane for what they're designed for.

I beg to differ on "easily."  I don't think the majority of drivers on the road have vehicles maintained well enough to shift smoothly at wide throttle openings.  In my experience it is also far from universal for agencies to compensate for adverse grades by increasing the length available for speed changing, and to facilitate smooth acceleration to mainline operating speed by refraining from putting a curve just behind the merge nose.  In Kansas, for example, on-ramps at diamond interchanges tend to be long tangents that finish at a fairly sharp curve at the merge nose, so if you try to accelerate to mainline speed on the tangent, you have to wrench the steering wheel sharply to the right to avoid fouling the nose.

[Beltway]

I beg to differ. I've had a situation where I accidentally cut someone off (that is to say, merged in ahead of someone and was forced to slam the brakes almost immediately because of what was unexpectedly happening ahead of me in my new lane). The person I cut off then passed me and slammed *his* brakes for the express purpose of "returning the favor". How would you describe that behavior?

This is called "brake-checking."  As a misbehavior I expect it to become more common because of all the brake-checking videos posted to Facebook (often by truckers' magazines looking to develop virality) that effectively teach drivers how to do it and normalize it.
In practice, a defensive driver who is scrupulous about maintaining adequate following distance will generally never be brake-checked.  I cannot remember the last time I have been brake-checked on a freeway mainline.

"Brake-checking" is a good way to have a high speed accident with vehicles spinning out and crashing, if the vehicle behind doesn't slow down enough.  People who engage in "brake-checking" are probably dense enough that they would do it to a large truck.  Shovel up for safety.

[J N Winkler]

"Brake-checking" is a good way to have a high speed accident with vehicles spinning out and crashing, if the vehicle behind doesn't slow down enough.  People who engage in "brake-checking" are probably dense enough that they would do it to a large truck.  Shovel up for safety.

The Facebook click pieces I see go like this:  "See this asshole get brake-checked."  "Look what happens when people try to brake-check a large truck."  My real objection to these pieces is that they drag the level of culture down.  If you grab people's attention by showing them mistakes they would know to avoid after literally only five minutes' worth of driver instruction, then that is headspace they cannot dedicate to addressing the more subtle issues that come up on the road and differentiate the best drivers from the merely good.

[kphoger]

Confession time.

I used to get really upset at left-lane campers.  Which is stupid, looking back, because getting mad never accomplishes anything.  Anyway, I developed the terrible habit of showing my ire by riding the lane stripe while passing on the right, intentionally forcing the other driver to ride the shoulder line, then cutting left again once I was a mere couple of feet in front of the other car's bumper.  As I said, this was stupid, stupid, aggressive behavior.  Well, one day on my way to work, the other driver decided to chase me down.  Wishing to avoid a confrontation (ironic, right?), I attempted to outmaneuver him a couple of times by exiting at the last second.  But he, being a car-length behind me, could always anticipate my moves, so I kept going along the Interstate.  I finally ended up shaking him by doing a hairpin at my work exit on-ramp and driving the wrong way down the ramp to the crossroad.  That shook me up pretty badly and has dramatically changed my outlook on the road.  I still get irritated at left-lane campers, but I'm able to control myself now.

[Beltway]

"Brake-checking" is a good way to have a high speed accident with vehicles spinning out and crashing, if the vehicle behind doesn't slow down enough.  People who engage in "brake-checking" are probably dense enough that they would do it to a large truck.  Shovel up for safety.

The Facebook click pieces I see go like this:  "See this asshole get brake-checked."  "Look what happens when people try to brake-check a large truck."  My real objection to these pieces is that they drag the level of culture down.  If you grab people's attention by showing them mistakes they would know to avoid after literally only five minutes' worth of driver instruction, then that is headspace they cannot dedicate to addressing the more subtle issues that come up on the road and differentiate the best drivers from the merely good.

I just checked YouTube on the search "brake-checked" and paged down several pages, and the vast majority of the titles were about something going wrong, such as miscalculating and crashing, or brake-checking an unmarked police car.

[vdeane]

I've lost count of the number of times when I had to slow down to let someone in when they could have easily slipped in front of me if only they had used the ramp and acceleration lane for what they're designed for.

I beg to differ on "easily."  I don't think the majority of drivers on the road have vehicles maintained well enough to shift smoothly at wide throttle openings.  In my experience it is also far from universal for agencies to compensate for adverse grades by increasing the length available for speed changing, and to facilitate smooth acceleration to mainline operating speed by refraining from putting a curve just behind the merge nose.  In Kansas, for example, on-ramps at diamond interchanges tend to be long tangents that finish at a fairly sharp curve at the merge nose, so if you try to accelerate to mainline speed on the tangent, you have to wrench the steering wheel sharply to the right to avoid fouling the nose.

I'm talking about drivers that merge into traffic at 40 mph immediately when the gore ends despite there being plenty of acceleration lane left.  In any case, I can usually make any end of ramp curves at 50 mph barring a loop ramp.