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I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)

Started by Tarkus, March 14, 2009, 04:18:13 PM

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jakeroot

#275
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 21, 2024, 11:44:12 AMYou can create a Good To Go account with pay as you go and just a license plate, no transponder or sticker needed, and no fees to set it up. I did that last year before driving on the 405 Express Lanes, and they just billed my credit card after the fact (only ended up being $1.00, I was driving from BC to Oregon and wasn't sure what my route would be), didn't have to think about it.

The pay by plate rate is only $0.25 more than the transponder rate ($1.75 less than pay by mail). Seems like a good enough solution for occasional regional traffic. I have the same thing setup for Fastrak in California, which also works well (though for the express lanes in CA you need the transponder, unlike WA).

That said, all of this would be much less of an issue if the US could decide on one standard. As of now, I have accounts set up in WA, CA, and FL (for all of EZ-Pass), and it still doesn't cover every toll road or even every 2di (for example Kansas Turnpike). And my WA Goodtogo account isn't even valid on the Hood River Bridge/Bridge of the Gods between OR and WA, they have their own transponder for some reason.

I cannot believe I didn't know about WSDOT's pay-by-plate option. I always assumed you had to get a transponder or decal to take advantage of the normal rates, or you had to put up with the $2 mail fee.

The problem is still having to do everything beforehand. We should not expect drivers to create accounts for a toll bridge ahead of time when those without existing accounts are likely those using it once or twice, maximum, and almost certainly weren't aware of the toll beforehand. Or if they were (such as a sign saying "toll bridge 20 miles"), it's unlikely they pulled off, created an account, and then passed through. No, they're just gonna put up with a mail toll arriving who-knows-when. That just seems unfair to me. WSDOT should at least allow account creation after passing through the toll gantry.

Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2024, 12:13:46 PMMaybe this situation will encourage Fastrak and Good to Go to become interoperable.

Perhaps only technically, they will be systems in neighboring states, with less than a day's drive between the other. So yes, I think it would be a good thing to consider.

Luckily, if ODOT ever implements tolls on their freeways, they'd likely use a Good-to-Go compatible system since the Portland area will already have Good-to-Go hardware installed and in regular use (once I-5 is tolled). This will only accelerate the need to combine the two systems, at least technically.


kalvado

Not sure how things would be done in WA, but I believe IL has a similar option which allows toll-by-plate rather than full toll-by-mail within a certain window after the trip. 
It would be wise to allow account creation within a day or two after the trip with retroactive billing. Not sure if that is implemented, of course. 

doorknob60

Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 02:42:03 AMThe problem is still having to do everything beforehand. We should not expect drivers to create accounts for a toll bridge ahead of time when those without existing accounts are likely those using it once or twice, maximum, and almost certainly weren't aware of the toll beforehand. Or if they were (such as a sign saying "toll bridge 20 miles"), it's unlikely they pulled off, created an account, and then passed through. No, they're just gonna put up with a mail toll arriving who-knows-when. That just seems unfair to me. WSDOT should at least allow account creation after passing through the toll gantry.

Sounds like they sort of offer that option, maybe in a different way than other states do. If after getting your bill in the mail, you choose to create an account (instead of simply paying the mail toll), you'll still get the discounted rate. Seems pretty generous all things considered.

QuoteWhat if I already drove on a toll road without an account?
    No worries, it's not too late to lower your bill after you get in the mail. You'll have the option to create an account as you pay your bill.
https://mygoodtogo.com/EN/learn/how-to-pay/accounts

stevashe

#278
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 22, 2024, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 02:42:03 AMThe problem is still having to do everything beforehand. We should not expect drivers to create accounts for a toll bridge ahead of time when those without existing accounts are likely those using it once or twice, maximum, and almost certainly weren't aware of the toll beforehand. Or if they were (such as a sign saying "toll bridge 20 miles"), it's unlikely they pulled off, created an account, and then passed through. No, they're just gonna put up with a mail toll arriving who-knows-when. That just seems unfair to me. WSDOT should at least allow account creation after passing through the toll gantry.

Sounds like they sort of offer that option, maybe in a different way than other states do. If after getting your bill in the mail, you choose to create an account (instead of simply paying the mail toll), you'll still get the discounted rate. Seems pretty generous all things considered.


Actually, you can also just set up a pay-by-plate account after the fact and avoid getting the bill in the mail if you are quick! When you create an account and add a vehicle, you can set an effective date/time up to 72 hours in the past.


WSDOT just does not advertise the pay-by-plate option or communicate how it works very well, as shown by the fact that you didn't even know about it until doorknob's post (I don't know this for sure, but I suspect WSDOT doesn't talk about this much because they'd prefer that people just get a pass instead).


jakeroot

Quote from: stevashe on May 22, 2024, 04:13:12 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 22, 2024, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 02:42:03 AMThe problem is still having to do everything beforehand. We should not expect drivers to create accounts for a toll bridge ahead of time when those without existing accounts are likely those using it once or twice, maximum, and almost certainly weren't aware of the toll beforehand. Or if they were (such as a sign saying "toll bridge 20 miles"), it's unlikely they pulled off, created an account, and then passed through. No, they're just gonna put up with a mail toll arriving who-knows-when. That just seems unfair to me. WSDOT should at least allow account creation after passing through the toll gantry.

Sounds like they sort of offer that option, maybe in a different way than other states do. If after getting your bill in the mail, you choose to create an account (instead of simply paying the mail toll), you'll still get the discounted rate. Seems pretty generous all things considered.


Actually, you can also just set up a pay-by-plate account after the fact and avoid getting the bill in the mail if you are quick! When you create an account and add a vehicle, you can set an effective date/time up to 72 hours in the past.


WSDOT just does not advertise the pay-by-plate option or communicate how it works very well, as shown by the fact that you didn't even know about it until doorknob's post (I don't know this for sure, but I suspect WSDOT doesn't talk about this much because they'd prefer that people just get a pass instead).

I'm glad to hear it can be setup after the fact.

They really just need a sign after the I-5 Bridge that reads "pay online: mygoodtogo..."

Sub-Urbanite

The old plan had Oregon starting its OWN tolling system (for Interstate Bridge and other tolls / congestion pricing in the metro area like on 205)... now that that's been dropped, the new Interstate Bridge will just use Good 2 Go.

I really don't understand why every state wants / needs to reinvent the wheel here. I kiiiiinda get Good2Go and FastTrak not being interoperational - it's 750 miles from the Tacoma Narrows Bridge to the Carquinez Bridge – but at a minimum the PNW should be on the same page.

vdeane

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on May 23, 2024, 11:35:36 AMI really don't understand why every state wants / needs to reinvent the wheel here. I kiiiiinda get Good2Go and FastTrak not being interoperational - it's 750 miles from the Tacoma Narrows Bridge to the Carquinez Bridge – but at a minimum the PNW should be on the same page.
The worst offender in that respect is actually Michigan.  EVERY jurisdiction they border (not just other states, but Ontario, too) either takes E-ZPass or borders a jurisdiction that does.  Do their toll facilities that are introducing transponders after previously only taking cash or not being a toll facility think to join?  Nope.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

stevashe

Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 10:24:59 PM
Quote from: stevashe on May 22, 2024, 04:13:12 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 22, 2024, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 02:42:03 AMThe problem is still having to do everything beforehand. We should not expect drivers to create accounts for a toll bridge ahead of time when those without existing accounts are likely those using it once or twice, maximum, and almost certainly weren't aware of the toll beforehand. Or if they were (such as a sign saying "toll bridge 20 miles"), it's unlikely they pulled off, created an account, and then passed through. No, they're just gonna put up with a mail toll arriving who-knows-when. That just seems unfair to me. WSDOT should at least allow account creation after passing through the toll gantry.

Sounds like they sort of offer that option, maybe in a different way than other states do. If after getting your bill in the mail, you choose to create an account (instead of simply paying the mail toll), you'll still get the discounted rate. Seems pretty generous all things considered.


Actually, you can also just set up a pay-by-plate account after the fact and avoid getting the bill in the mail if you are quick! When you create an account and add a vehicle, you can set an effective date/time up to 72 hours in the past.


WSDOT just does not advertise the pay-by-plate option or communicate how it works very well, as shown by the fact that you didn't even know about it until doorknob's post (I don't know this for sure, but I suspect WSDOT doesn't talk about this much because they'd prefer that people just get a pass instead).

I'm glad to hear it can be setup after the fact.

They really just need a sign after the I-5 Bridge that reads "pay online: mygoodtogo..."

I agree completely. They should have signs like that after every toll facility; that is the one thing they are missing that would complete the system.

pderocco

Quote from: stevashe on May 29, 2024, 04:37:16 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2024, 10:24:59 PMI'm glad to hear it can be setup after the fact.

They really just need a sign after the I-5 Bridge that reads "pay online: mygoodtogo..."

I agree completely. They should have signs like that after every toll facility; that is the one thing they are missing that would complete the system.
California's FasTrak took it one step further. After paying by plate a few times, they sent me, unsolicited, a stick-on transponder, and all I had to do was stick it on, and activate it online.

ErmineNotyours


TEG24601

This new design looks awfully plain.  Wasn't there a huge uproar over the construction of the Marquam and Glenn Jackson bridges because of how "plain" they looked, which is what created the Freemont Bridge?
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

pderocco


stevashe

Quote from: TEG24601 on June 13, 2024, 01:15:53 PMThis new design looks awfully plain.  Wasn't there a huge uproar over the construction of the Marquam and Glenn Jackson bridges because of how "plain" they looked, which is what created the Freemont Bridge?

That article doesn't have all of the proposed designs pictured. There are some more designs (some of them a little less plain) shown here: https://www.interstatebridge.org/Visualizations

jakeroot

Small rant on the renderings:

They taught us the importance of eye-level renderings in my urban planning/3D rendering courses. And they're great, but I think they underestimate the ability of average people's ability to process birds-eye views. I know most people will never see it from those angles, but it's really important for at least some people so that we can better understand how (in this case, the IBR) infrastructure interacts with and connects with surrounding infrastructure.

I do appreciate that there are some overhead views available (circa May 2023):

https://www.interstatebridge.org/media/fnjho04j/mlpa-roll-plot-5-25-23.pdf

stevashe

Quote from: jakeroot on June 20, 2024, 03:40:25 AMSmall rant on the renderings:

They taught us the importance of eye-level renderings in my urban planning/3D rendering courses. And they're great, but I think they underestimate the ability of average people's ability to process birds-eye views. I know most people will never see it from those angles, but it's really important for at least some people so that we can better understand how (in this case, the IBR) infrastructure interacts with and connects with surrounding infrastructure.

I do appreciate that there are some overhead views available (circa May 2023):

https://www.interstatebridge.org/media/fnjho04j/mlpa-roll-plot-5-25-23.pdf

I get what you're saying, but at least the way I see it, the exclusive purpose of that page is to show off what the different bridge designs look like aesthetically, not show how the bridge would function as a piece of infrastructure. So I can see why they would only have eye-level views.

However, I would be generally interested to see what the renderings look like from above! (As long as the view isn't straight down like that roll plot since all the bridge options would look largely the same from that angle.)

The Ghostbuster

I find it interesting that the OR 99E/OR 120 interchange will be reconfigured as a Single-Point-Urban-Interchange, and three roundabouts will be constructed in the vicinity of the interchange. Are SPUIs and roundabouts common in Oregon?

Bickendan

Medford put in a SPUI when exit 27 was rebuilt.
Roundabouts are popping up quite a bit, with Coe Circle being one of the first in Portland.

pderocco

Only the extradosed or finback would ever be featured in a car commercial.

Bruce

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 20, 2024, 07:13:45 PMI find it interesting that the OR 99E/OR 120 interchange will be reconfigured as a Single-Point-Urban-Interchange, and three roundabouts will be constructed in the vicinity of the interchange. Are SPUIs and roundabouts common in Oregon?

SPUIs aren't common in Oregon, but Vancouver across the river has plenty (5 in the city and surrounding unincorporated sprawl).
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

jakeroot

Quote from: Bruce on June 22, 2024, 03:17:12 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 20, 2024, 07:13:45 PMI find it interesting that the OR 99E/OR 120 interchange will be reconfigured as a Single-Point-Urban-Interchange, and three roundabouts will be constructed in the vicinity of the interchange. Are SPUIs and roundabouts common in Oregon?

SPUIs aren't common in Oregon, but Vancouver across the river has plenty (5 in the city and surrounding unincorporated sprawl).

I only know of one SPUI, in Medford (I-5 at Garfield).

There was one planned for SW Wilsonville Road, but it was scrapped in favor of a diamond. Something about being able to handle more stopped traffic, I think.\

Unlike neighboring WA, and a bit more like CA, Oregon is much more into partial cloverleaf interchanges, in terms of alternate options to diamonds.

Bickendan

Quote from: jakeroot on June 22, 2024, 04:36:59 AM
Quote from: Bruce on June 22, 2024, 03:17:12 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 20, 2024, 07:13:45 PMI find it interesting that the OR 99E/OR 120 interchange will be reconfigured as a Single-Point-Urban-Interchange, and three roundabouts will be constructed in the vicinity of the interchange. Are SPUIs and roundabouts common in Oregon?

SPUIs aren't common in Oregon, but Vancouver across the river has plenty (5 in the city and surrounding unincorporated sprawl).

I only know of one SPUI, in Medford (I-5 at Garfield).

There was one planned for SW Wilsonville Road, but it was scrapped in favor of a diamond. Something about being able to handle more stopped traffic, I think.\

Unlike neighboring WA, and a bit more like CA, Oregon is much more into partial cloverleaf interchanges, in terms of alternate options to diamonds.
Exit 283 does see a lot of traffic. A DDI would have probably be a better design, space needs notwithstanding, and DDIs not being a thing at the time either...

Now I need to see what the Donald interchange (278) is doing, hmm.

jakeroot

Quote from: Bickendan on June 22, 2024, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 22, 2024, 04:36:59 AM
Quote from: Bruce on June 22, 2024, 03:17:12 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 20, 2024, 07:13:45 PMI find it interesting that the OR 99E/OR 120 interchange will be reconfigured as a Single-Point-Urban-Interchange, and three roundabouts will be constructed in the vicinity of the interchange. Are SPUIs and roundabouts common in Oregon?

SPUIs aren't common in Oregon, but Vancouver across the river has plenty (5 in the city and surrounding unincorporated sprawl).

I only know of one SPUI, in Medford (I-5 at Garfield).

There was one planned for SW Wilsonville Road, but it was scrapped in favor of a diamond. Something about being able to handle more stopped traffic, I think.\

Unlike neighboring WA, and a bit more like CA, Oregon is much more into partial cloverleaf interchanges, in terms of alternate options to diamonds.
Exit 283 does see a lot of traffic. A DDI would have probably be a better design, space needs notwithstanding, and DDIs not being a thing at the time either...

Now I need to see what the Donald interchange (278) is doing, hmm.

I think it comes down to how much through traffic there is. DDIs essentially swap through capacity for turning capacity. Wilsonville does seem like it would have a lot of through traffic, at least compared to the Phoenix DDI or the new one at Donald, where I'm sure both interchanges have lots of freeway-bound traffic.

SPUIs are really big here in Japan along non-tolled roads, but they normally use permissive phasing, making them even more efficient (example in Fukuoka). Permissive SPUIs might be my favorite thing ever, alas they seem to be verboten in America.

xonhulu

Quote from: jakeroot on June 22, 2024, 04:36:59 AMI only know of one SPUI, in Medford (I-5 at Garfield).

I-5 at Market St in Salem is also a SPUI. It and your Medford example are the only ones in Oregon I'm aware of.

Roundabouts are becoming more common in the state, and some localities have embraced them whole-heartedly (I'm looking at you, Bend!).

Sub-Urbanite

Let's be honest: SPUIs won't be used extensively in Portland because they aren't great for bike/ped. (The slip lanes are abhorred by the bike advocates)

vdeane

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on July 01, 2024, 01:11:16 PMLet's be honest: SPUIs won't be used extensively in Portland because they aren't great for bike/ped. (The slip lanes are abhorred by the bike advocates)
The ones from the local road turning right onto the freeway, or turning right from the freeway onto the local road?  The latter at least can be aligned for a slow-speed turn.  Although the need to cross four roadways isn't great for pedestrians.  Nor is the ability to cross the local road through the SPUI, requiring a nearby mid-block crosswalk.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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