US 111 proposed in Kentucky and Tennessee

[hbelkins]

The Somerset-Pulaski County Economic Development Authority is pitching an idea to create a US 111 to follow an alternate route to Chattanooga from Exit 62 on I-75 at Mt. Vernon in Rockcastle County to, I presume, the interchange of I-24 and US 27 (hidden I-124).

The route would follow US 25, KY 461, KY 80, KY 914, KY 1247, KY 90, and US 127 to Static, Tenn., where it would then follow TN 111 south to US 27,then follow US 27 to Chattanooga and I-24.

Details here.

>> Should Highway 461 become part of a scenic corridor project to help tourism and economic development efforts?

Tell us what you think in this survey: https://forms.gle/v14tJzPrU4T2Xs1D6 (PLEASE NOTE: Responses in the comments section WILL NOT BE INCLUDED. Please respond to the survey only.)

As shared by Kentucky journalist Al Cross during a recent Somerset-Pulaski County Chamber of Commerce presentation, if you were going to a Braves game in Atlanta, which way would you go? It takes about five hours any of the three ways on the map you see here. However, one of these options — by Albany, KY, and on Tennessee Highway 111 to U.S. 27 and I-75 to Chattanooga — is a popular way for motorists to enjoy a scenic route that avoids Pine Mountain and Knoxville.

This route is one of the greatest, longest and relatively unspoiled scenic routes in the Eastern United States, but few recognize it because it is not labeled on a map or road signage. A group of advocates from the area is interested in seeing this route become federal highway U.S. 111 from Chattanooga to Exit 62 in Mount Vernon on I-75. That would include Highways 90, 1247, 914, 80 and 461 in Pulaski County, and would necessitate changing the route number of Highway 461 to U.S. 111.

The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials makes decisions on federal route numbers, and highway officials in Kentucky and Tennessee are considering asking that group to create U.S. 111. Doing so would create a scenic corridor that could increase tourism and economic development for all communities along this path.

To gather important feedback from our community on this endeavor and allow our residents' voices to be heard, SPEDA is conducting a survey to learn how changing this route number would affect people living and working along Highway 461. If this includes you, or if you live or work in Pulaski County and have an opinion on this issue, please take this short survey so we can include your thoughts.

This is the first I've heard of this proposal, including the fact that Kentucky and Tennessee are considering submitting a proposal to AASHTO.

This routing of US 111 would not intersect its parent, US 11, and would have two useless concurrencies on either end (a short concurrency with US 25 on the northern end and a longer concurrency with US 27 on the southern end.) There shouldn't be any issues with road quality, as all of the Kentucky portion has been built as new construction or reconstructed in the past 30 years.

The SPEDA is taking a survey of residents and business owners along KY 461 to see if the the number change from KY 461 to US 111 would have any affect or cause any hardships.

[LilianaUwU]

Should be numbered US 125.

[The Ghostbuster]

I agree with the US 125 designation. I'm a little skeptical of this proposal, although if they truly want the route to be numbered US 111, they should make a slight route adjustment on the southern end. Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

[Molandfreak]

Should be numbered US 125.

Or US 37 since the actual proposal wasn't very far away.

[74/171FAN]

That person I interacted with on Facebook recently that is begging to bring back US 111 along I-83, PA 147, and PA/NY 14, is going to be angry with this actual proposal.

[usends]

This routing of US 111 would not intersect its parent, US 11, and would have two useless concurrencies on either end (a short concurrency with US 25 on the northern end and a longer concurrency with US 27 on the southern end.)

A US 125 designation would be valid, although the proposed route would come so close to US 11 that I think the number 111 would be just fine.  I'm sure one of their thoughts is to avoid issues along the segment of the route that's already designated 111.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

[Strider]

US 111 will meet its parent US 11 in Chattanooga. US 11 (US 41 and US 64) has an interchange with US 27 near downtown. If US 111 is to follow US 27 down towards I-24, US 111 will meet its parent... even though it is not a full interchange.

Then I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.

[74/171FAN]

Then I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.

My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127, which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga, but is not signed south of US 27.

[Mapmikey]

Then I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.

My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127, which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga, but is not signed south of US 27.

US 72 and US 76 are also unposted on their independent segments downtown.

[74/171FAN]

Then I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.

My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127, which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga, but is not signed south of US 27.

US 72 and US 76 are also unposted on their independent segments downtown.

Right, what signage there is indicates that both US 72 (even getting an END sign) and US 76 end where US 41 turns from Broad to Main.

[froggie]

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

Was thinking that same thing and meant to post it yesterday but got waylaid.

US 111 will meet its parent US 11 in Chattanooga. US 11 (US 41 and US 64) has an interchange with US 27 near downtown. If US 111 is to follow US 27 down towards I-24, US 111 will meet its parent... even though it is not a full interchange.

That interchange is technically part of I-24.  Sure there's some ramps to/from US 27, but the interchange is within the I-24 right-of-way.  By centerline definition (which most if not all DOTs follow), the US 111 as proposed would not meet US 11.

[Henry]

After losing I-66, will US 111 become the redemption story for southern KY?

This would not be unprecedented, because US 121 in VA and WV certainly will not meet US 21 (but it will meet the freeway replacement, I-77).

[JREwing78]

Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

TDOT and KYTC should prioritize access control along the portions of the route that current lack it, with the ultimate goal of 4-laning the sections currently still at 2 lanes, and being able to convert signalized intersections to interchanges without having to "bypass the bypass".

For the most part it's not bad, but the section of KY-90 outside Somerset has a lot of development right up against the ROW, and KY-461 near Mt. Vernon also has a bit. The TN-111 "bypass" of Livingston is also a hot mess.

Per the Google, the proposed US-111 as it sits now is about 40 minutes longer point-to-point than I-75 despite only being 3 miles longer. Much of this lost time is in the slower Cookeville to Somerset section, which goes through more towns instead of bypassing them. It's also largely a 2-lane roadway with slower speed limits.

[Rothman]

Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century. 

[Molandfreak]

Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century. 

New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.

[Rothman]

Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century. 

New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.

I do wonder how many people actually drive the byways.  There are so many nowadays that new ones just seem like wistful "If you build it, they will come."

I suppose US 111 would attract a couple of roadgeeks.

[Molandfreak]

Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.

That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century. 

New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.

I do wonder how many people actually drive the byways.  There are so many nowadays that new ones just seem like wistful "If you build it, they will come."

I suppose US 111 would attract a couple of roadgeeks.

I mean, as opposed to not wanting anything at all to happen ever, making the hobby extremely boring?

[JREwing78]

I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.

With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century. 

Perhaps, but we all have stories of how bad GPS directions have done us dirty. While a US-route designation may not bring the same guarantee of high-quality roadway an Interstate shield would bring, I would give more credence to following a single route designation connecting the two points than the salad of route numbers I'd have to follow now. Clearly Tennessee had something like this in mind when it built out TN-111.

[The Ghostbuster]

Does anyone think this proposal will ever be officially implemented? To me, it seems more like a pipe dream (or a Fictional Highways proposal) than a legitimate proposal. Then again, I thought the US 78 extension was a bogus extension that shouldn't have been implemented but it was. I guess time will tell.

[Rothman]

Does anyone think this proposal will ever be officially implemented? To me, it seems more like a pipe dream (or a Fictional Highways proposal) than a legitimate proposal. Then again, I thought the US 78 extension was a bogus extension that shouldn't have been implemented but it was. I guess time will tell.

More probable than all the rot in the Fictional forum.  As said up above, desperation leads to all sorts of byways and stuff like this bring proposed and it's easier than real economic development, so everyone involved can claim victory when the shields go up.

I like getting rid of the "hodgepodge of routes" being a benefit.  Some roadgeeks have been complaining about US 202 for decades over its concurrencies.

[wriddle082]

I'm all for this proposal, and my preference would be for the southern end to follow TN 153 to I-75 so it can at least intersect US 11.

This neck of the woods is dear to my heart, as I went to college at Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, during which time I drove up and down TN 111 many times, and have followed the progress on the southern extension construction to Soddy-Daisy (and later expansion to four lanes) throughout the 90's and 00's.

I have not been on US 127 through Clinton Co., KY since it was improved and rerouted along a bypass of Albany, so one of these days I will have to check it out.

My one and only fear about this designation: that either KYTC or TDOT accidentally posts US 111 shields on 2-digit blanks instead of 3-digit blanks!  It would be easy to do since all three digits are obviously narrow enough.  I can see TDOT getting it right, but I wouldn't put it past KYTC to post narrow ones!

[Molandfreak]

I'm all for this proposal, and my preference would be for the southern end to follow TN 153 to I-75 so it can at least intersect US 11.

This neck of the woods is dear to my heart, as I went to college at Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, during which time I drove up and down TN 111 many times, and have followed the progress on the southern extension construction to Soddy-Daisy (and later expansion to four lanes) throughout the 90's and 00's.

I have not been on US 127 through Clinton Co., KY since it was improved and rerouted along a bypass of Albany, so one of these days I will have to check it out.

My one and only fear about this designation: that either KYTC or TDOT accidentally posts US 111 shields on 2-digit blanks instead of 3-digit blanks!  It would be easy to do since all three digits are obviously narrow enough.  I can see TDOT getting it right, but I wouldn't put it past KYTC to post narrow ones!

Why have all that wasted space? There's no legibility benefit to posting "111" on a three-digit shield, just more white space.

[hbelkins]

There are actually a fair number of square-blank US 127 signs on the Albany bypass, including a few assemblies with a square marker and a wide marker side-by-side.

Upon closer inspection, US 27 does intersect US 11. Coming from the south on Broad Street, there is a loop ramp from US 11/41/64/72 to  US 27 north. One of the Y ramps from southbound US 27 leads to Broad Street. US 11 north and US 64 east depart US 41 at 20th Street. But you still have the useless concurrency of US 27 and US 111 to contend with -- much like the useless concurrency of US 48 and US 33/119 where one route (US 48) ends at I-79 and the other two roads continue.

[Molandfreak]

Hot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen. Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.

[Rothman]

Hot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen. Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.

I don't think that's solely a three-digit issue:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fy1E1nBMjHn3KKPcA