East End of I-70

[famartin]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

I-95 could mostly be completed through DC thanks to the revamp of the 695/295 interchange.  All that would be needed would be a couple of higher powered ramps at the 95/495/BW Parkway interchange (and turning the parkway over to SHA, of course).  Not that I expect that to happen, but its another fantasy of mine.  I would still sign the beltway as being the way for thru traffic to go (Richmond/Baltimore control cities, with I-95 going inside the beltway signed exclusively for Washington). This would have the advantage of eliminating DC 295 and I-695 in DC, with I-395 relegated to the center leg.

[RoadMaster09]

Personally, this is getting into Fictional territory, but I wouldn't bring I-70 to Baltimore at all. I'd run it along I-76 to Philadelphia (and Atlantic City) with I-76 truncated to New Stanton. At the same time, I-68 would be extended to Baltimore, with the Breezewood stub becoming a 3di (say I-568). All x70's in Maryland become x68's.

As for the ending of what would become I-68, I'd run it around I-695 to meet I-95.

[SoCal Kid]

Park and Ride as a terminus for an Interstate? Yea...

[famartin]

Personally, this is getting into Fictional territory, but I wouldn't bring I-70 to Baltimore at all. I'd run it along I-76 to Philadelphia (and Atlantic City) with I-76 truncated to New Stanton. At the same time, I-68 would be extended to Baltimore, with the Breezewood stub becoming a 3di (say I-568). All x70's in Maryland become x68's.

As for the ending of what would become I-68, I'd run it around I-695 to meet I-95.

Ah, I like your plan, as long as that incorporates my extension to Annapolis (theoretically Ocean City)

[vdeane]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

I-95 could mostly be completed through DC thanks to the revamp of the 695/295 interchange.  All that would be needed would be a couple of higher powered ramps at the 95/495/BW Parkway interchange (and turning the parkway over to SHA, of course).  Not that I expect that to happen, but its another fantasy of mine.  I would still sign the beltway as being the way for thru traffic to go (Richmond/Baltimore control cities, with I-95 going inside the beltway signed exclusively for Washington). This would have the advantage of eliminating DC 295 and I-695 in DC, with I-395 relegated to the center leg.

Given that DC 295 already has a fair amount of through traffic due to GPS, I'm guessing making it I-95 would only encourage more people to go that way, even if signs directed traffic otherwise.  And, of course, I-95 would still be on the beltway for a short portion.

[famartin]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

I-95 could mostly be completed through DC thanks to the revamp of the 695/295 interchange.  All that would be needed would be a couple of higher powered ramps at the 95/495/BW Parkway interchange (and turning the parkway over to SHA, of course).  Not that I expect that to happen, but its another fantasy of mine.  I would still sign the beltway as being the way for thru traffic to go (Richmond/Baltimore control cities, with I-95 going inside the beltway signed exclusively for Washington). This would have the advantage of eliminating DC 295 and I-695 in DC, with I-395 relegated to the center leg.

Given that DC 295 already has a fair amount of through traffic due to GPS, I'm guessing making it I-95 would only encourage more people to go that way, even if signs directed traffic otherwise.  And, of course, I-95 would still be on the beltway for a short portion.

It would indeed still join the beltway for a short stretch, no easy way around it. But it would still, if nothing else, make navigating much easier by eliminating two unnecessary route numbers and truncating a third. Given that GPS issue of thru traffic going thru downtown, it probably matters not. I personally would just follow the fastest route no matter what.

[vdeane]

It might be an option if the majority of DC were ever given back to Maryland; the rest of I-395 could become I-995 and that would solve the duplicated number problem if that were to happen.  But even if it were, I can't imagine non-roadgeeks wanting to do the work necessary just to eliminate some duplicated 3dis.

[Alps]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

I-95 could mostly be completed through DC thanks to the revamp of the 695/295 interchange.  All that would be needed would be a couple of higher powered ramps at the 95/495/BW Parkway interchange (and turning the parkway over to SHA, of course).  Not that I expect that to happen, but its another fantasy of mine.  I would still sign the beltway as being the way for thru traffic to go (Richmond/Baltimore control cities, with I-95 going inside the beltway signed exclusively for Washington). This would have the advantage of eliminating DC 295 and I-695 in DC, with I-395 relegated to the center leg.

Given that DC 295 already has a fair amount of through traffic due to GPS, I'm guessing making it I-95 would only encourage more people to go that way, even if signs directed traffic otherwise.  And, of course, I-95 would still be on the beltway for a short portion.

It would indeed still join the beltway for a short stretch, no easy way around it. But it would still, if nothing else, make navigating much easier by eliminating two unnecessary route numbers and truncating a third. Given that GPS issue of thru traffic going thru downtown, it probably matters not. I personally would just follow the fastest route no matter what.

Of course there's a way around it, now that the ramps from 695 to 295 have been built. But Fictional Highways plz.

[NE2]

http://www.google.com/maps/@39.300332,-76.7122861,3a,19y,239.73h,88.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1imerBv7YhNx2xupgN7C1A!2e0!5s20120401T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[famartin]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

I-95 could mostly be completed through DC thanks to the revamp of the 695/295 interchange.  All that would be needed would be a couple of higher powered ramps at the 95/495/BW Parkway interchange (and turning the parkway over to SHA, of course).  Not that I expect that to happen, but its another fantasy of mine.  I would still sign the beltway as being the way for thru traffic to go (Richmond/Baltimore control cities, with I-95 going inside the beltway signed exclusively for Washington). This would have the advantage of eliminating DC 295 and I-695 in DC, with I-395 relegated to the center leg.

Given that DC 295 already has a fair amount of through traffic due to GPS, I'm guessing making it I-95 would only encourage more people to go that way, even if signs directed traffic otherwise.  And, of course, I-95 would still be on the beltway for a short portion.

It would indeed still join the beltway for a short stretch, no easy way around it. But it would still, if nothing else, make navigating much easier by eliminating two unnecessary route numbers and truncating a third. Given that GPS issue of thru traffic going thru downtown, it probably matters not. I personally would just follow the fastest route no matter what.

Of course there's a way around it, now that the ramps from 695 to 295 have been built. But Fictional Highways plz.

Those ramps don't help you avoid the section north of the BW Parkway

[Henry]

This is somewhat related to I-70, but thanks to a new federal program, many urban freeways will be a thing of the past, such as the old I-170:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/08/14/federal-program-would-help-cities-tear-down-highways/

And here's a closer look at the Highway to Nowhere, its effect on the blighted areas and what the future holds for it:

http://baltimorefuture.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-170-scar-from-dark-past.html

[PHLBOS]

This is somewhat related to I-70, but thanks to a new federal program, many urban freeways will be a thing of the past, such as the old I-170:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/08/14/federal-program-would-help-cities-tear-down-highways/

Here's the actual bill nested in the above-link.  Scroll down to SEC. 144 CONNECT COMMUNITIES PROGRAM.

Given the listed July 30, 2019 date of H.R. 4101, the current status of such is that the bill was introduced in the House.  It hasn't been yet voted on for approval.  Such still needs to clear the Senate as well as the entire House before such is signed into law by the President.

Long story short; such is not a done-deal yet.

[1995hoo]

It won't be voted on this month. Congress is off until September 9.

[tolbs17]

It should have went through Baltimore and connect to I-95! If it did, it would be fun!

[Henry]

It should have went through Baltimore and connect to I-95! If it did, it would be fun!

Well, we'll never know that now, because of its truncation to I-695 and the partial destruction of I-170. I will reiterate that there really was no good alternative for its alignment as it would've headed directly through the park, no matter how much it was refined.

[mgk920]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

Even better, I'd reroute I-83 to follow I-695 west around Baltimore and replace I-97 to Annapolis (existing I-83 'in' from I-695 to become I-183?).  The I-70/(83)/695 interchange should also be re-engineered from its obsolete 'stack' to a directional 'T' to provide a fitting and proper end for I-70.  Include whatever ramp braiding is needed to fully integrate this with I-95, too.



Mike

[famartin]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

Even better, I'd reroute I-83 to follow I-695 west around Baltimore and replace I-97 to Annapolis (existing I-83 'in' from I-695 to become I-183?).  The I-70/(83)/695 interchange should also be re-engineered from its obsolete 'stack' to a directional 'T' to provide a fitting and proper end for I-70.  Include whatever ramp braiding is needed to fully integrate this with I-95, too.



Mike

I actually dislike that idea because
A) 83 would have a weird loop westward
B) it doesn't leave the option of extension to OC

Though yes, the current 70/695 interchange is inadequate and needs replacement.

[The Ghostbuster]

I wonder if, eventually, the Security Blvd. interchange might be downgraded into a signaled intersection? The existing interchange seems to take up a lot of right-of-way that the city or county might want to redevelop.

[Alps]

I wonder if, eventually, the Security Blvd. interchange might be downgraded into a signaled intersection? The existing interchange seems to take up a lot of right-of-way that the city or county might want to redevelop.

Not until it's time to replace those overpasses.

[Henry]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

Even better, I'd reroute I-83 to follow I-695 west around Baltimore and replace I-97 to Annapolis (existing I-83 'in' from I-695 to become I-183?).  The I-70/(83)/695 interchange should also be re-engineered from its obsolete 'stack' to a directional 'T' to provide a fitting and proper end for I-70.  Include whatever ramp braiding is needed to fully integrate this with I-95, too.



Mike

I actually dislike that idea because
A) 83 would have a weird loop westward
B) it doesn't leave the option of extension to OC

Though yes, the current 70/695 interchange is inadequate and needs replacement.

Well, the current route of I-83 has it dead-ending in the middle of downtown, and thanks to its own cancellation south and east of there, it will never connect to I-95 either. To me, the western loop around makes a lot more sense than trying to plow it straight through the city, what with the harbor and a few buildings standing in the way.

Speaking of I-95, it has that weird eastern loop around DC, but that was needed because its intended path through the city was cancelled, so I don't mind it being there at all. However, taking that path is four miles longer than I-495's solo route to the west (34 vs. 30).

I wonder if, eventually, the Security Blvd. interchange might be downgraded into a signaled intersection? The existing interchange seems to take up a lot of right-of-way that the city or county might want to redevelop.

IIRC, that was the plan in conjunction with the Red Line, which would also create a surface boulevard on top of I-70's planned alignment. Sure, the Red Line is dead for now, but I still think the boulevard should be built anyway.

[famartin]

I think I-70 should be extended southeast along 695 and 97 to Annapolis, then (granted, this part is purely hypothetical) go over the bridge and follow a new/upgraded 50 freeway to Ocean City.  At least, that's a fantasy of mine. It would eliminate 97, which is wasted on that short stretch of freeway, and make 70 a bit more useful.

Even better, I'd reroute I-83 to follow I-695 west around Baltimore and replace I-97 to Annapolis (existing I-83 'in' from I-695 to become I-183?).  The I-70/(83)/695 interchange should also be re-engineered from its obsolete 'stack' to a directional 'T' to provide a fitting and proper end for I-70.  Include whatever ramp braiding is needed to fully integrate this with I-95, too.



Mike

I actually dislike that idea because
A) 83 would have a weird loop westward
B) it doesn't leave the option of extension to OC

Though yes, the current 70/695 interchange is inadequate and needs replacement.

Well, the current route of I-83 has it dead-ending in the middle of downtown, and thanks to its own cancellation south and east of there, it will never connect to I-95 either. To me, the western loop around makes a lot more sense than trying to plow it straight through the city, what with the harbor and a few buildings standing in the way.

Speaking of I-95, it has that weird eastern loop around DC, but that was needed because its intended path through the city was cancelled, so I don't mind it being there at all. However, taking that path is four miles longer than I-495's solo route to the west (34 vs. 30).

I wonder if, eventually, the Security Blvd. interchange might be downgraded into a signaled intersection? The existing interchange seems to take up a lot of right-of-way that the city or county might want to redevelop.

IIRC, that was the plan in conjunction with the Red Line, which would also create a surface boulevard on top of I-70's planned alignment. Sure, the Red Line is dead for now, but I still think the boulevard should be built anyway.

For I-83, if we HAD to adjust its ending to something "more appropriate" without building more (though really, I think it could probably be done without major destruction of historical properties, but not without a whole lot of cash) would be to send it east along I-695 to end at I95.

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but another way to free up some route numbers and decrease driver confusion would be to send I-95 thru DC via 395/695/DC295/BW Parkway (obviously some relatively minor modifications would be required to DC 295 and the BW Parkway (shoulder widening), and ideally a fly-over ramp from the NB Parkway to the NB Beltway). This was hard before the major reconstruction of the I-295/DC 295/I-695 interchange, but now that its done, the remaining work seems minor by comparison. Of course, NPS would have to turn over the BW Parkway portion inside the Beltway...  Thanks to the reconstruction of the Springfield interchange, thru traffic would likely continue to use 495 to bypass downtown (much like it does around Wilmington).

The topside of the Beltway west of I-95 is likely a reason (and a good one) to keep thru traffic following the eastern side, but theoretically, either way works depending on traffic.  I'd guess that traffic usually favors the east side, though.  The biggest current deficiency for thru traffic following either direction on the beltway is the ramp from 495 EB to I-95 NB in College Park, which remains close to its original alignment.  Some improved geometry and an extra lane (plus full right shoulder) between MD 650 and I-95 would help here.

[dlsterner]

For I-83, if we HAD to adjust its ending to something "more appropriate" without building more (though really, I think it could probably be done without major destruction of historical properties, but not without a whole lot of cash) would be to send it east along I-695 to end at I95.

That would create an unnecessary multiplex between I-83 and I-695 - plus then, what would you renumber the former I-83 south of I-695?  The oft-suggested I-183 doesn't work anymore since it won't connect with I-83 anymore.

I-83 is fine as it is.  Yes, it never connected with I-95 like was planned.  Doubt it will ever happen in the future.

[famartin]

For I-83, if we HAD to adjust its ending to something "more appropriate" without building more (though really, I think it could probably be done without major destruction of historical properties, but not without a whole lot of cash) would be to send it east along I-695 to end at I95.

That would create an unnecessary multiplex between I-83 and I-695 - plus then, what would you renumber the former I-83 south of I-695?  The oft-suggested I-183 doesn't work anymore since it won't connect with I-83 anymore.

I-83 is fine as it is.  Yes, it never connected with I-95 like was planned.  Doubt it will ever happen in the future.

I don't disagree with leaving 83 alone. Just playing devils advocate with his suggestion. Regarding your comment, you could A) live with it (not like there isn't already one) or decommission 695 over that stretch (and over my suggested 70 routing, creating a couple new I's (plenty of x70s and x83s available)

[famartin]

Another idea (since we're doing this anyway): swap 70 and 270, extend 83 down via 97 and extend 70 via 595 and 50

[kevinb1994]

Another idea (since we're doing this anyway): swap 70 and 270, extend 83 down via 97 and extend 70 via 595 and 50

I could only see 70 ending at the Capital Beltway, as that would follow the historical route of the Washington National Road, which connected with the extended National Road (which originally had its eastern terminus at Cumberland, hence the name "Cumberland Road" ) at Frederick (where 70 and 270 have their junction). How would extending 70 via 595 and 50 work? That's more or less 66 territory there (OTOH, extending 66 into West Virginia via 50 west of 81 may work, but it may also be more or less of a pipe dream), and please stop bringing up decommissioning 695 around Baltimore, as that is a pet peeve of mine and others on this forum. 83 could stand to be truncated to the Baltimore Beltway, however.