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Delaware Turnpike

Started by TMETSJETSYT, August 17, 2022, 09:12:46 AM

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TMETSJETSYT

So, I know that Delaware phased out the DE Turnpike signs a few years ago, but I was wondering if anyone had any info on it. I have traveled I-95 in Delaware twice this year and I have only seen one DE Turnpike shield and it was at the rest area. Just wondering if anyone new the original routeing of the DE Turnpike because I have hear people say that it ended at the junction with I-295, or it ended at the Delaware Memorial Br, or that it ended at the PA border along I-95. If anyone could answer that would be great. By the way I went in the time capsule on Google Maps and the first Delaware Turnpike shield I could find was at the megachange (Junction with I-95, I-295, I-495, and DE SR 141.), and that is why I thought for a moment that it ended at the megachange, because you don't see any shields on I-95 North of I-295, or on I-295, North of I-95. Ill post link to it below. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.703321,-75.5883994,3a,75y,305.71h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcgOseIK7p1jG9IXFuYKug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.
Roads I have clinched- I-84 (MA-CT-NY-PA), I-78 (NY-NJ-PA), I-395 (DC-VA), I-695 (Both DC and NY), I-490 (NY), I 390 (NY), I-787 (NY), I-287 (NY-NJ), I-795 (NC), I-140 (NC), I-295 (Both VA and MD), I-270 (MD), And I am only 13 so I have much more to clinch.


The Ghostbuster

I think the Interstate 95/Interstate 295/Interstate 495 interchange should be condensed, with right-handed-only exit and entrance ramps. The present configuration takes up a lot of land. Also, would it be possible to construct braided-ramps for access to DE 141/US 202 South?

famartin

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 17, 2022, 12:35:11 PM
I think the Interstate 95/Interstate 295/Interstate 495 interchange should be condensed, with right-handed-only exit and entrance ramps. The present configuration takes up a lot of land. Also, would it be possible to construct braided-ramps for access to DE 141/US 202 South?

The current configuration is a problem given the massive flows at various times from the roads involved (weekdays, I-95 northbound into/out of the interchange seems to get the heaviest flow, while weekends, its I-295 northbound). However, a significant configuration change is made difficult due to the marshland it travels thru... 60 years ago they could get away with it, but these days, its an environmental issue.

famartin

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 17, 2022, 09:12:46 AM
So, I know that Delaware phased out the DE Turnpike signs a few years ago, but I was wondering if anyone had any info on it. I have traveled I-95 in Delaware twice this year and I have only seen one DE Turnpike shield and it was at the rest area. Just wondering if anyone new the original routeing of the DE Turnpike because I have hear people say that it ended at the junction with I-295, or it ended at the Delaware Memorial Br, or that it ended at the PA border along I-95. If anyone could answer that would be great. By the way I went in the time capsule on Google Maps and the first Delaware Turnpike shield I could find was at the megachange (Junction with I-95, I-295, I-495, and DE SR 141.), and that is why I thought for a moment that it ended at the megachange, because you don't see any shields on I-95 North of I-295, or on I-295, North of I-95. Ill post link to it below. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.703321,-75.5883994,3a,75y,305.71h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcgOseIK7p1jG9IXFuYKug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.

As far as the Delaware Turnpike, I think it terminated officially at the interchange... I-295 is under Delaware River and Bay Authority maintenance, so not part of the turnpike, and the turnpike never extended north into Wilmington.

davewiecking

Quote from: famartin on August 17, 2022, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 17, 2022, 09:12:46 AM
So, I know that Delaware phased out the DE Turnpike signs a few years ago, but I was wondering if anyone had any info on it. I have traveled I-95 in Delaware twice this year and I have only seen one DE Turnpike shield and it was at the rest area. Just wondering if anyone new the original routeing of the DE Turnpike because I have hear people say that it ended at the junction with I-295, or it ended at the Delaware Memorial Br, or that it ended at the PA border along I-95. If anyone could answer that would be great. By the way I went in the time capsule on Google Maps and the first Delaware Turnpike shield I could find was at the megachange (Junction with I-95, I-295, I-495, and DE SR 141.), and that is why I thought for a moment that it ended at the megachange, because you don't see any shields on I-95 North of I-295, or on I-295, North of I-95. Ill post link to it below. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.703321,-75.5883994,3a,75y,305.71h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcgOseIK7p1jG9IXFuYKug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.

As far as the Delaware Turnpike, I think it terminated officially at the interchange... I-295 is under Delaware River and Bay Authority maintenance, so not part of the turnpike, and the turnpike never extended north into Wilmington.

For what it's worth, Wikipedia agrees with this. North of the megachange, I-95 is called the Wilmington Expressway, and could always be driven without paying a toll.

Alex4897

Quote from: famartin on August 17, 2022, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 17, 2022, 09:12:46 AM
So, I know that Delaware phased out the DE Turnpike signs a few years ago, but I was wondering if anyone had any info on it. I have traveled I-95 in Delaware twice this year and I have only seen one DE Turnpike shield and it was at the rest area. Just wondering if anyone new the original routeing of the DE Turnpike because I have hear people say that it ended at the junction with I-295, or it ended at the Delaware Memorial Br, or that it ended at the PA border along I-95. If anyone could answer that would be great. By the way I went in the time capsule on Google Maps and the first Delaware Turnpike shield I could find was at the megachange (Junction with I-95, I-295, I-495, and DE SR 141.), and that is why I thought for a moment that it ended at the megachange, because you don't see any shields on I-95 North of I-295, or on I-295, North of I-95. Ill post link to it below. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.703321,-75.5883994,3a,75y,305.71h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcgOseIK7p1jG9IXFuYKug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.

As far as the Delaware Turnpike, I think it terminated officially at the interchange... I-295 is under Delaware River and Bay Authority maintenance, so not part of the turnpike, and the turnpike never extended north into Wilmington.

There's a tiny 'TURNPIKE ENDS' sign on I-295 just beyond SR 141 that backs this up.
👉😎👉

elsmere241

There's still a sign on southbound I-95 after the DE 141 interchange that indicates "Delaware Turnpike" and "John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway" (I don't remember which is first) but it's smaller, and white on brown.

Alex

The Delaware Turnpike maps printed in the 1960s also reference the exchange with SR 141/I-295 as the end point:


TMETSJETSYT

I dont get why it just ends at the megachange (I-95, I-295, I-495 and DE-141 Junction). You'd think they would etened it to the Delaware Mem Bridge along I-295, or extend ot threw Wilmington on I-95 or I-495. Just doesn't make sense.
Roads I have clinched- I-84 (MA-CT-NY-PA), I-78 (NY-NJ-PA), I-395 (DC-VA), I-695 (Both DC and NY), I-490 (NY), I 390 (NY), I-787 (NY), I-287 (NY-NJ), I-795 (NC), I-140 (NC), I-295 (Both VA and MD), I-270 (MD), And I am only 13 so I have much more to clinch.

davewiecking

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 31, 2022, 05:50:22 AM
I dont get why it just ends at the megachange (I-95, I-295, I-495 and DE-141 Junction). You'd think they would etened it to the Delaware Mem Bridge along I-295, or extend ot threw Wilmington on I-95 or I-495. Just doesn't make sense.

The State of Delaware built the Delaware Turnpike using state funds, to be recouped by toll revenue. Uncle Sam paid for the interstates east of the Turnpike's end.

Anybody else through with highways being thrown around?

famartin

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 31, 2022, 05:50:22 AM
I dont get why it just ends at the megachange (I-95, I-295, I-495 and DE-141 Junction). You'd think they would etened it to the Delaware Mem Bridge along I-295, or extend ot threw Wilmington on I-95 or I-495. Just doesn't make sense.

I don't get why you want it extended.

Alps

Quote from: Alex on August 30, 2022, 11:35:41 PM
The Delaware Turnpike maps printed in the 1960s also reference the exchange with SR 141/I-295 as the end point:


It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

Alex

Quote from: Alps on August 31, 2022, 10:58:47 PM]It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:


Alps

Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 31, 2022, 10:58:47 PM]It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:


I love it but why is that signing 295 onto 95 north?

odditude

Quote from: Alps on September 03, 2022, 10:57:32 PM
Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 31, 2022, 10:58:47 PM]It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:


I love it but why is that signing 295 onto 95 north?

were there every any aborted ideas to cosign 295 over 95 between DE and Ewing?

amroad17

Quote from: odditude on September 04, 2022, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: Alps on September 03, 2022, 10:57:32 PM
Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 31, 2022, 10:58:47 PM]It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:


I love it but why is that signing 295 onto 95 north?

were there every any aborted ideas to cosign 295 over 95 between DE and Ewing?
I like the fact that Norfolk was signed at that interchange and other intersections (US 13/US 40 south split) in Delaware.  Norfolk still should be signed, but at the DE 1/I-95 interchange, since there is a sign giving distances to the Cape May-Lewes Ferry and the Chesapeake Bay-Bridge Tunnel (with directions to use Exit 4A on I-95 SB) just before the SB I-295 interchange with US 13/US 40. https://goo.gl/maps/cmCmCJpZ8s9wv9bz7

It would not be an overly wild idea to co-sign I-295 with I-95 through Wilmington and Philadelphia (ala the Capital Beltway) for continuity purposes for a, let's give this routing a fancy name: Liberty Bell Beltway.  I-295 would be signed East-West along the I-95 concurrency (East toward Trenton, West toward Wilmington), continuing the cardinal directions from the current I-295/I-95/I-276 interchange in Bristol, PA.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

amroad17

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 31, 2022, 05:50:22 AM
I dont get why it just ends at the megachange (I-95, I-295, I-495 and DE-141 Junction). You'd think they would etened it to the Delaware Mem Bridge along I-295, or extend ot threw Wilmington on I-95 or I-495. Just doesn't make sense.
I hope that I am not overstepping any boundaries, however, TMETSJETSYT instead of spelling "threw" please spell the word as "through" or even "thru".  Every time I, and maybe other members, see "threw" I think of a thrown object.  I believe that was pointed out in the Interstate Threw Delmarva post in Fictional Highways. I am not being overly critical, I just would not want you to go through any more ridicule than you have already been subjected to.  :cheers: :thumbsup:
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 31, 2022, 10:58:47 PM]It also ends US 301 and US 202 at each other at the future I-295. Never seen that before.

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:



I like the use of Annapolis and Norfolk, although the later makes the most sense. 

bluecountry

Norfolk doesn't make sense.
The CBBT is a better directional destination.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:



I'd imagine, being the picture was taken in the late 1960's, the signs were installed during a very active period of U.S. military operations.  Specifically, in regards to the 13/40/301 sign: Annapolis and Norfolk were significant military destination points, along with Dover, and either the DRBA or the Feds figured these were the important control cities at the time.  The nod to Baltimore is probably due to the fact that 95 didn't fully connect with Baltimore yet, and the more common route to take was US 40.

As the signage was replaced in the 80s and 90s, Annapolis and Norfolk were of lesser importance at this junction.  Plus, the DRBA took over the New Castle Airport in the late 90s, and used this as a control destination to 'advertise' the airport.

famartin

Quote from: bluecountry on September 05, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Norfolk doesn't make sense.
The CBBT is a better directional destination.

Bridges and tunnels are currently frowned upon as destinations for control cities. Back then it would've been OK, but I'd guess they were trying to make the point that they can get there that way.

In any case, why doesn't Norfolk make sense?

amroad17

Quote from: famartin on September 05, 2022, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 05, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Norfolk doesn't make sense.
The CBBT is a better directional destination.

Bridges and tunnels are currently frowned upon as destinations for control cities. Back then it would've been OK, but I'd guess they were trying to make the point that they can get there that way.

In any case, why doesn't Norfolk make sense?
As I said in my prior post, Norfolk would make more sense at the DE 1/I-95 interchange in Christiana, not at the current US 13/US 40 interchange.  The control cities for DE 1 on I-95 SB should be Dover and Norfolk with auxiliary signage for the Delaware Beaches.  The current signage on I-95 NB for DE 1 is fine. 

Exit 97 on DE 1 has a BGS for Norfolk (https://goo.gl/maps/9nxM5p4TgMDSDbfK6).  This is why I believe Norfolk should be signed for DE 1 on I-95 SB in Christiana.

As I also wrote in my prior post, there is a large sign for the CBBT on I-295 SB just east of the US 13/US 40 interchange.  There would be no need for the CBBT to be a control destination--just some trailblazers.

As an aside, I would like to see VDOT change the I-64 Exit 282 control destination for US 13 from CBBT to Salisbury and Philadelphia, with the CBBT on an auxiliary sign with a TOLL placard on it also.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

amroad17

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 05, 2022, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: Alex on September 02, 2022, 11:18:39 PM

And thanks to Michael Summa, signage showing that from 1969:



I'd imagine, being the picture was taken in the late 1960's, the signs were installed during a very active period of U.S. military operations.  Specifically, in regards to the 13/40/301 sign: Annapolis and Norfolk were significant military destination points, along with Dover, and either the DRBA or the Feds figured these were the important control cities at the time.  The nod to Baltimore is probably due to the fact that 95 didn't fully connect with Baltimore yet, and the more common route to take was US 40.

As the signage was replaced in the 80s and 90s, Annapolis and Norfolk were of lesser importance at this junction.  Plus, the DRBA took over the New Castle Airport in the late 90s, and used this as a control destination to 'advertise' the airport.
Annapolis became less important at this interchange because of US 301 no longer terminating here.  US 301 was split (US 301N, US 301S), then moved to end at US 40 either in Glasgow or Bear (cannot remember which), then moved again to end at I-95 Exit 1A, and is now terminating at DE 1 in Biddles Corner.

Norfolk became less important here because of the completion of I-95 and I-64--although it is still quicker to get to Hampton Roads using US 13.  I guess the thought of using the Interstates would be faster (snicker, snicker).  During the 1980's and early 1990's there was increased development along the US 13 corridor in both Delaware and Maryland.  It was a bit of a slow drive using US 13 from New Castle down to Dover (and vice versa).  However, with the completion of DE 1, a motorist more than likely would not take US 13 south from New Castle to get to Norfolk, so Norfolk should not be signed there.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Ted$8roadFan

Norfolk no longer makes sense from the DE Turnpike, but it does further south on DE-1/US 13.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: amroad17 on September 06, 2022, 01:40:58 AM...It was a bit of a slow drive using US 13 from New Castle down to Dover (and vice versa).  However, with the completion of DE 1, a motorist more than likely would not take US 13 south from New Castle to get to Norfolk, so Norfolk should not be signed there.

By this reasoning, Dover shouldn't be signed here either. The only other town to put here that'll make sense would be New Castle, and that's covered by DE 9. So it's a good route to get places including Dover, it's just probably not going to be the fastest route.



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