Minnesota Notes

[froggie]

How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?

It's in the Scoping Document I linked to.  I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.

[texaskdog]

How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?

It's in the Scoping Document I linked to.  I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.

Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with.  252 is not that old

[TheHighwayMan3561]

How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?

It's in the Scoping Document I linked to.  I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.

Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with.  252 is not that old

I think that was the original plan. Park and Center objected at the time, so we got the shitty arterial expressway thing that both cities now want upgraded.

[Roadguy]

How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?

It's in the Scoping Document I linked to.  I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.

Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with.  252 is not that old

I think that was the original plan. Park and Center objected at the time, so we got the shitty arterial expressway thing that both cities now want upgraded.

I had heard from an old MnDOT engineer who worked on the original 252 divided highway expansion in the 1980s that full freeway was the plan but it was Center that objected. It was down scoped to an arterial expressway to win support. As usual, the significant consequence of Minnesota's cumbersome municipal consent process is that 252 was left as a corridor with the shitty arterial expressway where many people have lost their lives over the years. Similarly today, Park seems fully onboard with the conversion but Center has been the hold up. Center's previous Mayor (Elliott) formed a committee to hide behind versus making the political decision (lack of leadership for Elliott for his whole term, he established committees for many things as he didn't want to stick his neck out to make a decision as mayor with the council). The committee hid behind the controversy of an interchange at 66th or 70th. Now that Center has a new mayor and some new council members, it will be interesting to see where this goes.

In the mean time, had heard MnDOT has up scoped the environmental document process from an environmental assessment to an environmental impact statement as well to dig deeper into the benefits and impacts.

[Roadguy]

Also heard the I-494 project in Bloomington, Edina and Richfield (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494-airport-hwy169/) is also going to construction this year and includes:

• A E-ZPass lane from Hwy 100 to I-35W in each direction
• A new northbound I-35W to westbound I-494 ramp at the I-35W and I-494 interchange
• Remove ramp I-494 access at Nicollet and 12th Ave. It will also create a full interchange at Portland Ave for access to and from I-494
• A new pedestrian bridge at Chicago Ave across I-494.

[The Ghostbuster]

In addition to MN 252, I think the northern-most portion of MN 280 should also have been constructed to freeway standards.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

In addition to MN 252, I think the northern-most portion of MN 280 should also have been constructed to freeway standards.

280 has been full freeway northbound for 15 years. The Broadway intersection only has a stoplight going south.

[Molandfreak]

I don't know why they didn't just seize the opportunity to permanently close that Broadway intersection when it was temporarily closed after the bridge collapse.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I don't know why they didn't just seize the opportunity to permanently close that Broadway intersection when it was temporarily closed after the bridge collapse.

No one will ever accuse MnDOT of being pragmatic and forward-thinking.

[froggie]

Permanently closing it would have required Municipal Consent from Roseville and Lauderdale.  Even though there's only a short segment of Broadway between 280 and the Minneapolis line, it's enough to provide access to the businesses squeezed between 280 and the rail spur.  I've seen references that those business are the reason why the intersection at Broadway remains.  MnDOT *had* wanted a full freeway.

[Papa Emeritus]

The roundabout craze in the Twin Cities is about to hit a new low.

There is a proposal to replace the traffic signal at Louisiana Ave and Cedar Lake Road with a roundabout.

This intersection is often clogged with traffic, especially at rush hour.

It also sees an unusually heavy volume of emergency vehicles, because one of St Louis Park's fire stations is just to the north of the intersection, and ambulances headed from I-394 and Golden Valley to Methodist Hospital (which is two miles south of the intersection) take Louisiana through the intersection to the hospital.

Although the roundabouts on Louisiana Ave between MN 7 and Methodist Hospital have worked okay, traffic volumes on Cedar Lake Road are much higher than on the streets south of MN 7. Also, the traffic volume on Louisiana between Minnetonka Boulevard and 394 is much higher than it is further south; during the afternoon rush hour, traffic on southbound Louisiana often backs up past the fire station.

I seriously question how a roundabout will be able to effectively (1) handle rush hour traffic, and (2) quickly get ambulances and fire trucks through the intersection if it is already clogged with rush hour traffic.

[froggie]

A 2-lane roundabout should function better than the existing intersection.  if what the city's proposing is a single-lane roundabout, then yes I would question that.

[invincor]

I recently did a driving trip down to Florida, and was gritting my teeth at the sheer number of stoplighted intersections there, the timing of which didn't seem to be synced up at all and the cycle times were really long.  After just a few days of that I was pining for roundabouts in a way I never thought I would. 

[andarcondadont]

The roundabout craze in the Twin Cities is about to hit a new low.

There is a proposal to replace the traffic signal at Louisiana Ave and Cedar Lake Road with a roundabout.

This intersection is often clogged with traffic, especially at rush hour.

It also sees an unusually heavy volume of emergency vehicles, because one of St Louis Park's fire stations is just to the north of the intersection, and ambulances headed from I-394 and Golden Valley to Methodist Hospital (which is two miles south of the intersection) take Louisiana through the intersection to the hospital.

Although the roundabouts on Louisiana Ave between MN 7 and Methodist Hospital have worked okay, traffic volumes on Cedar Lake Road are much higher than on the streets south of MN 7. Also, the traffic volume on Louisiana between Minnetonka Boulevard and 394 is much higher than it is further south; during the afternoon rush hour, traffic on southbound Louisiana often backs up past the fire station.

I seriously question how a roundabout will be able to effectively (1) handle rush hour traffic, and (2) quickly get ambulances and fire trucks through the intersection if it is already clogged with rush hour traffic.

It has been a year since I've gone to that area, but my question is: did they even try installing flashing left yellow arrows at that intersection before deciding on a roundabout? Google Streetview imagery only goes back to 2019 as most recent and they were not installed then.

[froggie]

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169plymouth-newhope/

This one came on my radar recently b/c I have family that it will impact and the closure begins Monday.

Long story short:  Rockford Rd/CSAH 9 will close entirely through the interchange while it and the bridge are reconstructed into a folded-diamond.  While the project website doesn't show all the details (yet), I received a graphic from the city of Plymouth that shows it will be folded to the north (all ramps on the north side of Rockford Rd).  All left turns will have dual-turn-lanes, as will the right turn from the NB off-ramp to WB Rockford.

[Mdcastle]

The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.

They're going to give similar treatment to the Bass Lake cloverleaf in the next couple years I assume?

[froggie]

The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.

Point being that one has to do some not insignificant digging in order to find it.  If one (especially one not as much into roads as those on this forum) were to look at MnDOT's project website, they wouldn't have a clue as to what the final product will look like.

[Mdcastle]

Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find actual roadgeek quality conent on MnDOTs site. Most of the projects don't have layouts any more, and the removed the meeting minutes for the lighting and signal comittees.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The MnDOT project list is out.

Continuing projects from last year:
-US 10 freeway conversion and reconstruction/improvements to existing freeway in Anoka/Ramsey
-US 169 freeway conversion in Elk River
-Can of Worms interchange rebuild in Duluth
-US 14 four-laning between New Ulm and Nicollet, which will finish the 4-lane road between New Ulm and Rochester
-Reconstruction and reconfiguration of US 10/TH 23 interchange in St. Cloud replacing the decrepit bridges and turning the ancient cloverleaf into a folded diamond
-TH 23 four-laning in the "North Gap" between Paynesville and Richmond

New projects
-Two staggered projects on I-494 in Bloomington/Eagan with spring/summer-focused bridge repairs and pavement rehab from 24th Ave to Pilot Knob, then in the late fall the I-494 reconstruction centered on rebuild/widen with MnPass lane and reconfiguring the I-35W interchange along with other interchange modifications begins
-TH 23 four-laning in the "South Gap" between New London and Paynesville
-(previously discussed) Reconfiguring the US 169/Rockford Road cloverleaf into a folded diamond in New Hope
-Conversion of US 2/TH 194 intersection west of Duluth into a roundabout
-Reonstruction of most of US 169/TH 210 duplex segment in Aitkin County
-Resurfacing/bridge repair on I-90 between US 169 in Blue Earth and TH 22
-I-94 maintenance from Century Avenue to Woodbury Drive including auxiliary lane extension from Radio Drive to Woodbury Drive

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html

[froggie]

^ I went into a bit more detail on the new roundabouts, interchanges, and widening projects a couple months ago.  A number of roundabouts coming to state routes this year.

[Plutonic Panda]

Article detailing some of the major construction projects to happen in the state this year:

Significant projects this year
Improving Highway 52 between the Twin Cities Area and Rochester:  Continuing a multi-year project on Highway 52 between Rosemount and Hampton, including resurfacing concrete, repairing and updating bridges, and installing cable median barrier; and entering the final year of a three-year project on Highway 52 between Zumbrota and Cannon Falls that includes reconstructing southbound lanes, replacing bridges, improving safety by closing specific accesses, building a noise wall and installing permanent snow fence.
Continuing a multi-year project on Highway 10 in Anoka, including replacing and repairing bridges to improve traffic flow, safety and provide better pedestrian and bicycle access.
Continuing multi-year freeway construction of Highway 169 in Elk River, including four new interchanges that will improve traffic flow, increase capacity and improve motorist and pedestrian safety.
Entering final year of the project to expand Highway 14 between New Ulm and Nicollet from two lanes to four lanes, and complete a continuous four-lane road between New Ulm and Rochester.
Continuing work on the multi-year Twin Ports Interchange project in Duluth to enhance safety by eliminating blind merges and left exits, replacing aging infrastructure and improving freight mobility.
Redecking and repairing the I-35 Atkinson Bridge over Carlton County Road 61.
Resurfacing Highway 59 south of Thief River Falls, including culvert replacements, shoulder widening and a roundabout at the intersection of Highway 59 with Pennington County Road 3 to provide a smoother ride, improve drainage and a safer intersection.
Beginning a two-year reconstruction of the Highway 10/ 23 interchange area in east St. Cloud, including the road surface, bridges, drainage structures, pedestrian and motorist access.
Resurfacing westbound I-94, west of Alexandria near Highway 114 and improving the I-94 and Highway 27 interchange near Alexandria, including constructing roundabouts at both the westbound and eastbound ramps to improve mobility and traffic flow.
Beginning a two-year I-35 at Faribault project that will resurface 4.6 miles of the interstate and make other improvements.
Beginning a two-year Corridors of Commerce project to expand Highway 23 from New London to Paynesville to four lanes.

- https://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2023/04/12-construction-kickoff.html

[TheHighwayMan3561]

As far as the upcoming US 2/TH 194 roundabout outside of Duluth is concerned, it's probably one of the better spots to drop one. US 2 is a TOTSO, it's a rural intersection with 60 MPH speed limits and poor sightlines, and it's been the site of some nasty accidents over the years.

[The Ghostbuster]

Looks like a good location for a roundabout.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Washington County votes to take over a section of 58th St in Oak Park Heights with the intention of eventually connecting the southern stub of Manning Avenue on the south side of TH 36 to Stillwater Blvd. The city vehemently objected to the decision.

https://www.twincities.com/2023/04/18/washington-county-takes-steps-to-complete-highway-connection-by-taking-over-road-in-oak-park-heights/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tw-PioneerPress&utm_campaign=socialflow