Virginia

[Thing 342]

^ Perhaps Chesterfield County should have worked with VDOT to make the Hull St Rd corridor more limited-access and less commercial-hell.  Traffic lanes are more effective when you don't have side roads and driveways every 5 feet.  They (and the state of Virginia in general) have only themselves to blame.

Pretty much.

There are some plans to convert portions of Hull Street Rd to a superstreet, but honestly it's too little, too late at this point. I think the plans have stalled anyway.

There's a corridor preservation study currently being run by VDOT that's still ongoing as of this month: http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/richmond/amelia-chesterfield_-_us_360_arterial_preservation_plan.asp

[WillWeaverRVA]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

[1995hoo]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

I just came here to post WTOP's story. It's notable that appeals in Virginia's court system are rather limited and there is no guarantee the state supreme court would hear the case if the ferry operators petition for review.

I'd be interested in seeing the court's order, but of course it wasn't linked. If I find it, I'll edit this post. Virginia circuit courts don't always release opinions in the same way federal courts do–oftentimes the opinion may be issued via a letter to counsel.

Edited to add: It's not on the court's website. No idea when it'll be readily available, though I assume the local media will manage to get a copy.

Edited again: WTOP obtained a copy. As I expected, it's a letter ruling.

[D-Dey65]

Does everybody see this sign at the Exit 176A off-ramp on I-95/495? It's at the split in the ramp between VA 241 and VSR 611 and Huntington Avenue. I think there should be a big banner for the Huntington Avenue Washington Metro station underneath the Huntington Avenue (Kathryn Street) sign. At least big enough to fit under the Huntington Avenue sign.

And since this is my 2,700th post, and once again I forgot to place any emphasis on it, let me remedy that now.



My other choice was to celebrate with the US 27 sign, but I thought I'd stick with something closer to home.

[Jmiles32]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

[Dirt Roads]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

And in a twist of fate, don't be surprised if Rockland Farm loses a huge amount of land to the construction of a new bridge.

[cpzilliacus]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

The volume of traffic carried by the ferry is small compared to even what a two-lane undivided bridge would handle.  But it will probably cause some people to bring up the need for more road capacity crossing the Potomac, no matter what Montgomery County's activist class says.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

Wow... shame I never got to ride the ferry. Lots of BS when it comes to all these regulations.

[dlsterner]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Such a shame, as White's Ferry was on my bucket list.  Kicking myself especially since I was in Poolesville last August and didn't make the short trek to the ferry.

[bluecountry]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

Hopefully this generates momentum to FINALLY end the ridiculous 35 mile gap between the Legion Bridge and Route 15.
Finally connect 28/FFXCO PKWY to the ICC.

[cpzilliacus]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

Hopefully this generates momentum to FINALLY end the ridiculous 35 mile gap between the Legion Bridge and Route 15.
Finally connect 28/FFXCO PKWY to the ICC.

Do not hold your breath.

[LM117]

A little heads up for those that may be heading down US-29 near my neck of the woods and into NC in the next few months. NCDOT awarded a contract for improvements to all 6 miles of US-29 in Caswell County. The work includes resurfacing the ramps at the US-58 interchange.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-01-04-us-29-caswell-county-resurfacing.aspx

[jmacswimmer]

Meanwhile, in a completely different part of the state, White's Ferry is no more.

Guarantee that the need for a new Potomac River crossing between Point of Rocks and the American Legion Bridge will be brought up again because of this.

Hopefully this generates momentum to FINALLY end the ridiculous 35 mile gap between the Legion Bridge and Route 15.
Finally connect 28/FFXCO PKWY to the ICC.

Do not hold your breath.

As much as I would love to see a new crossing linking VA 28 to I-370/MD 200, I too agree that it probably won't happen courtesy of the immense political & financial clout in that area of Montgomery County.

[plain]

A little heads up for those that may be heading down US-29 near my neck of the woods and into NC in the next few months. NCDOT awarded a contract for improvements to all 6 miles of US-29 in Caswell County. The work includes resurfacing the ramps at the US-58 interchange.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-01-04-us-29-caswell-county-resurfacing.aspx

What's the status of the non-freeway US 29 just north of the Greensboro Loop? Is there a timeline for it yet? A bypass maybe?

[sprjus4]

What's the status of the non-freeway US 29 just north of the Greensboro Loop? Is there a timeline for it yet? A bypass maybe?

Currently unfunded, but any project would upgrade the existing route. It already has a few interchanges and some level of access control. It wouldn't be a hard job, and certainly not worthy of constructing a new terrain routing.

[noelbotevera]

US 17 is a lightly trafficked, 4 lane corridor from Winchester to Fredericksburg - barring the multiplexes with US 15/29 and US 50. Returning home from Fredericksburg, I chose this over I-95 and the Beltway for my return trip. Overall a great road through the Virginia countryside, though the trees get a little monotonous.

However, two gripes stick out:

1. A poorly designed intersection in Opal - US 17 NB traffic is not favored, though this makes sense given that US 15/29 is much busier. Except, why does US 17 SB get a ramp while NB gets a stoplight?

2. Two lane section from I-66 to US 50 - If you're gonna promote this as THE way from Winchester to Fredericksburg and beyond, this is unacceptable. To be fair, VDOT reports this segment with an AADT of 9000; not too bad and certainly lower than the rest of the route. Still though - this segment is only 8 miles long. It can't be that hard to twin.

[1995hoo]

The intersection of Routes 17 and 29 used to be an ordinary crossroads with southbound traffic on Route 17 going left at the light in Opal. The ramp is a recent addition, and even after it opened, a lot of people persisted in making the old left turn until VDOT blocked off access to prevent the use of that route.

Also, what gives you the idea that Virginia promotes US-17 between I-66 at Delaplane and US-50 at Paris as "THE way" between Fredericksburg and Winchester? Certainly if you're westbound on I-66, the sign as you approach Exit 23 recommends that Winchester-bound traffic use I-66 to I-81.


(Edited to add the second paragraph)

[74/171FAN]

1. A poorly designed intersection in Opal - US 17 NB traffic is not favored, though this makes sense given that US 15/29 is much busier. Except, why does US 17 SB get a ramp while NB gets a stoplight?

Agreed.  The ramp being put south of the existing intersection instead of north of the existing intersection messed everything up.

2. Two lane section from I-66 to US 50 - If you're gonna promote this as THE way from Winchester to Fredericksburg and beyond, this is unacceptable. To be fair, VDOT reports this segment with an AADT of 9000; not too bad and certainly lower than the rest of the route. Still though - this segment is only 8 miles long. It can't be that hard to twin.

I'll defer to mapmikey or froggie on this one, but I believe that the strict 45 mph speed limit is there due to lobbyists wanting traffic to follow I-66 to I-81.  Having said that, I actually still prefer that section over spending 13 more miles on I-81.  Even with an at-grade railroad crossing, I think that the time going either way is usually about the same. 

I am surprised that you did not mention the six-lane section near I-95 with all the stoplights.  Hopefully, the US 17 SB ramp to I-95 SB will not be as congested once it becomes two lanes.

[1995hoo]

1. A poorly designed intersection in Opal - US 17 NB traffic is not favored, though this makes sense given that US 15/29 is much busier. Except, why does US 17 SB get a ramp while NB gets a stoplight?

Agreed.  The ramp being put south of the existing intersection instead of north of the existing intersection messed everything up.

....

Eminent domain would have made it costlier because there are more businesses, and then residences, on both sides of Route 29 north of that intersection.

[noelbotevera]

I am surprised that you did not mention the six-lane section near I-95 with all the stoplights.  Hopefully, the US 17 SB ramp to I-95 SB will not be as congested once it becomes two lanes.

IMO, the entire western side of Fredericksburg is a mess. Too much commercial sprawl out there.

Still - whether I'm lucky or not - I managed to get past the stoplight-laden section relatively swiftly. Overall I'd take the fairly short (<3 miles) commercial section of US 17 over I-95 south of the Beltway any day - at least that has enough lanes to support both through and turning traffic.

Agree that the US 17/I-95 interchange is a mess; cloverleafs in an urban area?

[sprjus4]

I'll defer to mapmikey or froggie on this one, but I believe that the strict 45 mph speed limit is there due to lobbyists wanting traffic to follow I-66 to I-81.

9/17/2000 - VDOT Takes Steps to Reduce Truck Traffic on Rte. 17

In an effort to stanch the flow of tractor-trailer traffic on Route 17, the Virginia Department of Transportation plans to build a $4 million weigh station outside Warrenton and lower the speed limit on a 7.8-mile stretch of the road just north of Interstate 66, officials announced Friday.

The two moves are among several steps that were announced in the wake of citizen complaints about the increasing number of trucks rumbling through the affluent and scenic Delaplane and Paris areas on a two-lane stretch between I-66 and Route 50.

Officials in southern Fauquier also have expressed concern in recent months about Route 17 truck traffic, which appears to have grown as truckers, along with other motorists, have looked for ways to avoid the congestion at Springfield, where massive construction is snarling the so-called Mixing Bowl interchange.

"We have serious safety problems along the [Route] 17 corridor," said Charles D. "Chip" Nottingham, commissioner of the Virginia Department of Transportation.

He cited Transportation Department statistics showing that trucks make up about 30 percent of all traffic on the stretch between Route 50 and I-66, when the desired average for a two-lane primary road is about 10 percent or 15 percent.

Other state statistics showed nine accidents on that segment since the beginning of the year, with six of them involving trucks. In all but one of those six accidents, the trucker was alleged to be at fault, according to the state figures. None of the accidents was fatal.

Nottingham said he thinks that lowering the speed limit from 55 mph to 45 mph, effective Oct. 1, will reduce the number of accidents along the road.

For years, local activists have advocated measures to improve safety on Route 17. Their efforts seemed to pick up steam after Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) became involved in the issue this year. Nottingham said Wolf is securing federal funds for some of the initiatives announced Friday.

"We don't want to have to wait until there's a fatality," said Josephine F. "Jolly" deGive, director of planning services for the Piedmont Environmental Council. She lives near Route 17 and has been active in efforts to secure new safety measures.

Nottingham said VDOT decided not to take one measure supported by some local activists: a ban on trucks along that route.

"It's not a corridor that we think needs to be a high-speed, congestion-filled, interstate-type road," he said. "But we believe that the road is well designed and that legal, safe truck traffic is too important to the economy" to ban outright.

Some local residents allege that truckers have been using that leg of Route 17 to do an end-around at a weigh station on Interstate 81. Route 50 intersects I-81 at Winchester.

Nottingham said the newly announced weigh station in Warrenton will be a way to capture not only the traffic headed north on Route 17, but also the heavy truck traffic on Routes 15 and 29. All three roads merge outside Warrenton, and a recent mobile weigh station on the combined route found a "surprising" amount of illegal traffic, including oversize loads, Nottingham said. Stopping that illegal traffic would increase the roads' life span, he said.

The so-called rolling weigh station planned for Warrenton, on the Eastern Bypass just after the Meetze Road exit from Route 15/29, would use sensors under the main roadway to take readings and would not require truckers whose rigs are under the 80,000-pound limit to stop. Nottingham said the station is expected to be finished by 2002 and would be the first weigh station on the Route 29 corridor, which runs the length of the state.

"We want to discourage illegal trucking in Virginia," he said.

Truckers whose business takes them along the several arteries that run through the vast county have grumbled that they are being singled out as the cause of traffic problems, even as all kinds of traffic have increased.

"In today's world of getting on the Internet and ordering it and wanting it tomorrow, how does it get to these people? By trucks," said David Newman, co-owner of J.D. Newman Inc., a Bealeton-based trucking company. "Everybody's wanting to be anti-truck, but on the other hand, they sure do want to enjoy the benefits they bring."

Newman said he is glad the speed-limit change in northern Fauquier will apply to all motorists, not just truckers.

In addition to the weigh station and the speed-limit change, Nottingham said VDOT is coordinating with local authorities to increase enforcement along certain stretches of roadway where the surprise inspections found truckers with illegal loads and other safety violations.

And, Nottingham said, at its meeting later this week, the Commonwealth Transportation Board is set to remove the northern Fauquier portion of Route 17 as a designated route for interstate commerce. The gesture is largely symbolic, he said, but some out-of-state trucking companies that rely on official maps would reconfigure their routes and avoid Fauquier.

1/4/2001 - Virginia Wants Fewer Trucks on Route 17

The Virginia Department of Transportation has recently made several changes regarding truck traffic on Route 17 because of requests from local citizens and public officials.

The changes were made in Fauquier County, Va., between I-66 at Delaplane and Route 50 at Paris, and on Route 50 between Paris and Route 340 in Clarke County, Va.

In September, Route 17 between I-66 and Route 50 between Route 17 and I-81 was removed from the state's designated system of routes for STAA-authorized vehicles, meaning rigs longer than 65 feet and twin trailer combinations are prohibited from using these routes. Warning signs are now in place, and officials will be issuing citations, which could result in the assessment of 3 points on a driver's record.

The new designated alternate routes for STAA-authorized vehicles are I-66 and
I-81; or I-66, Route 522, Route 277 and I-81; or I-66, Route 522 and Route 340.

In addition, the speed limit on Route 17 between I-66 and Route 50 has been reduced from 55 to 45 mph and the speed limit on the east and westbound lanes of Route 50 as it approaches the Route 17 intersection at Paris will be lowered from 55 to 45 mph.

The Virginia State Police are also increasing motor carrier safety inspections of trucks on Routes 17 and 50.

The VDOT has also announced that legislation will be introduced in the 2001 Virginia General Assembly to ban all through trucks from this portion of Route 17.

[noelbotevera]

Also, what gives you the idea that Virginia promotes US-17 between I-66 at Delaplane and US-50 at Paris as "THE way" between Fredericksburg and Winchester? Certainly if you're westbound on I-66, the sign as you approach Exit 23 recommends that Winchester-bound traffic use I-66 to I-81.

(Edited to add the second paragraph)

Winchester is used just north of I-66 - this is at VA 55. Here's an example of Fredericksburg being used on this segment.

If VDOT really tried, they could change US 17's control cities to something benign like Warrenton or Marshall. Using these cities as a control city implies that VDOT wants you to take US 17 between these cities.

[amroad17]

1. A poorly designed intersection in Opal - US 17 NB traffic is not favored, though this makes sense given that US 15/29 is much busier. Except, why does US 17 SB get a ramp while NB gets a stoplight?

Agreed.  The ramp being put south of the existing intersection instead of north of the existing intersection messed everything up.

2. Two lane section from I-66 to US 50 - If you're gonna promote this as THE way from Winchester to Fredericksburg and beyond, this is unacceptable. To be fair, VDOT reports this segment with an AADT of 9000; not too bad and certainly lower than the rest of the route. Still though - this segment is only 8 miles long. It can't be that hard to twin.

I'll defer to mapmikey or froggie on this one, but I believe that the strict 45 mph speed limit is there due to lobbyists wanting traffic to follow I-66 to I-81.  Having said that, I actually still prefer that section over spending 13 more miles on I-81.  Even with an at-grade railroad crossing, I think that the time going either way is usually about the same. 

I am surprised that you did not mention the six-lane section near I-95 with all the stoplights.  Hopefully, the US 17 SB ramp to I-95 SB will not be as congested once it becomes two lanes.

The two lane section of US 17 between I-66 and US 50 is never going to be widened.  It is a way to keep tractor trailers off that section between Delaplane and Winchester--and for the trucks to go through the scales near Stephens City.

https://goo.gl/maps/gxyAMt53gL9qsBWG9

[Mapmikey]

Also, what gives you the idea that Virginia promotes US-17 between I-66 at Delaplane and US-50 at Paris as "THE way" between Fredericksburg and Winchester? Certainly if you're westbound on I-66, the sign as you approach Exit 23 recommends that Winchester-bound traffic use I-66 to I-81.

(Edited to add the second paragraph)

Winchester is used just north of I-66 - this is at VA 55. Here's an example of Fredericksburg being used on this segment.

If VDOT really tried, they could change US 17's control cities to something benign like Warrenton or Marshall. Using these cities as a control city implies that VDOT wants you to take US 17 between these cities.

From I-66 west - https://goo.gl/maps/SZHqrtgaWZAfFGBaA
The control cities at this exit are Delaplane and Paris

VDOT is definitely not promoting US 17 to reach Winchester from I-66.  VDOT could go a step further and have US 17 end at Marshall and renumber US 17 from I-66 to US 50 as VA 248.  But in the days of GPS this would be less effective than say 20 years ago.

AFAIK Fredericksburg is not mentioned at all on I-81 at Winchester and in fact there is no control city for the westbound ramp at Exit 313, which was true even when I-66 wasn't finished yet.

The 45 mph limit is difficult to observe and heavily enforced as I do believe the through-trucks prohibition is too.

The Opal intersection works way better for US 17 SB traffic than it used to and improves safety on 15-29 because there are no longer lines of cars (plus a fain number of semis) waiting to turn left that spill out into the non-turning lanes.  Yes it is weird but 17 NB works the same as before and Froggie is correct there wasn't room to do an interchange at the stoplight.

When the US 17 interchange with I-95 was turned into a clover in the early 1980s there was almost nothing on the west side of the interchange.  They are currently rebuilding this interchange to be a C/D interchange with VA 3 (in addition to tying in the south end of extended express lanes) and some of the clover movements are going away.  VDOT has already partly de-clovered the VA 3 interchange

[1995hoo]

Also, what gives you the idea that Virginia promotes US-17 between I-66 at Delaplane and US-50 at Paris as "THE way" between Fredericksburg and Winchester? Certainly if you're westbound on I-66, the sign as you approach Exit 23 recommends that Winchester-bound traffic use I-66 to I-81.

(Edited to add the second paragraph)

Winchester is used just north of I-66 - this is at VA 55. Here's an example of Fredericksburg being used on this segment.

If VDOT really tried, they could change US 17's control cities to something benign like Warrenton or Marshall. Using these cities as a control city implies that VDOT wants you to take US 17 between these cities.

From I-66 west - https://goo.gl/maps/SZHqrtgaWZAfFGBaA
The control cities at this exit are Delaplane and Paris

VDOT is definitely not promoting US 17 to reach Winchester from I-66.  VDOT could go a step further and have US 17 end at Marshall and renumber US 17 from I-66 to US 50 as VA 248.  But in the days of GPS this would be less effective than say 20 years ago.

....

Agreed completely. There's a fundamental difference between the distance signage seen on that segment of Route 17 (which just means the road goes there) and the guidance signs on the roads to which it connects at either end. I would say the guidance signage is the type that should be given more credence in determining what VDOT "promotes" as the prevailing route. The mere fact that a city is listed on a distance sign doesn't mean a whole lot–if it did, then taking US-50 west all the way from the Beltway would be the "promoted" route to Winchester from Fairfax County due to this sign just west of Gallows Road, but Winchester is not widely signed in Fairfax County (other than on mileage signs) and most people who know the roads would normally opt for I-66 or the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway to avoid dozens of traffic lights.

The sign Mapmikey linked is the one I was thinking of on I-66 (I didn't post a link last night because I was using the Google Maps app).