I've heard in the past that the New York Thruway once had blue guide signs, similar to how Hwy 407 both ETR and Toll have blue signs in my neck of the woods. Is there anyone who has any pictures of this? Because personally it seems kind of unusual myself.
On the same topic of blue signs, it's been speculated that the decision to use blue guide signs on Hwy 407 in Ontario was inspired by Autoroute 10 in Quebec using blue signs when it was a toll road.
This got me wondering, does anyone know when the blue NY thruway signs were phased out, and if this happened prior to the opening of Autoroute 10, because it could be possible that Transports Quebec took inspiration from the Thruway Authority in using blue signs, but again this is just a hypothesis.
So does any photo evidence exist of the blue Thruway signs?
Quote from: MisterSG1 on June 21, 2016, 09:22:04 PM
I've heard in the past that the New York Thruway once had blue guide signs, similar to how Hwy 407 both ETR and Toll have blue signs in my neck of the woods. Is there anyone who has any pictures of this? Because personally it seems kind of unusual myself.
On the same topic of blue signs, it's been speculated that the decision to use blue guide signs on Hwy 407 in Ontario was inspired by Autoroute 10 in Quebec using blue signs when it was a toll road.
This got me wondering, does anyone know when the blue NY thruway signs were phased out, and if this happened prior to the opening of Autoroute 10, because it could be possible that Transports Quebec took inspiration from the Thruway Authority in using blue signs, but again this is just a hypothesis.
So does any photo evidence exist of the blue Thruway signs?
I can't speak to the last of the blue signs, but the last of the first green signs were phased around in the late 1980s. I believe they had the same format as the blue signs, but I don't know if they were the blue signs that were repainted green. The format looked like this:
BENNETT ROAD
Dunkirk
Fredonia
EXIT 59 1 MILE
I'm thinking the old format green signs weren't the same as the blue signs because the Rochester / LeRoy sign had route shields for I-490 and NY 19 mounted above it that were from the late 1960s.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upstatenyroads.com%2Fboard%2Foriginal-exit-59.jpg&hash=497de099e2963b92dd38be83189a040c1330f855)
The story I always heard is that the engineer in charge of standards for the Thruway Authority was color blind and thought the blue signs showed up better than green ones.
Bertram Tallamy, superintendent of the NYS DPW while the Thruway was being built, thought blue would be the best background for white lettering on signs, and had all the signs on the Thruway done in blue. Problem was, he was developing color-blindness. He was named the Federal Highway Administrator in 1956 as the Interstate Highway System was being designed, and quite naturally he thought blue was the best background for Interstate signs as well. The FHwA engineers thought green was the best background color, so they set up a soon-to-be-opened section of roadway with signs with blue, green and black backgrounds. The road was driven on by hundreds of ordinary citizens, who were asked to give their impressions of which signs were most legible. The test conclusively showed that green was the most favored color by about 2 to 1 over blue. Black got only about 15% of the vote. Blue signs are, of course, still in use to direct motorists to services and rest areas.
(Source: "The Roads That Built America," by Dan McNichol.)
Bertram Tallamy is best known, of course, for having his name at the top of old USGS topos. :D
iPhone
What about that guy who has all the old colored US route shields in Florida? I forget his name, but maybe he has them just as he has the old black on white directional guides in some states. So maybe he has them as well as the old Connecticut Turnpike signs that were also blue.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 22, 2016, 11:37:32 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upstatenyroads.com%2Fboard%2Foriginal-exit-59.jpg&hash=497de099e2963b92dd38be83189a040c1330f855)
The good old days. I remember them well.
I don't have any pictures, but do remember the blue signs as a child when my parents would drive from Cleveland, OH to Montreal to see my grandparents. Also, the I-90 shields had the directional banner below the shields instead of above them. The A-10 Autoroute originally had red signs when it opened and the A-15 had blue signs when it opened. The A-10 ran by the Eastern Townships where my grandparents farm was at near Cowansville.
I can remember in the early 1970s that the "free" section between Williamsville and Lackawanna had green signs where the toll sections had blue signs. 
Quote from: MisterSG1 on June 21, 2016, 09:22:04 PM
This got me wondering, does anyone know when the blue NY thruway signs were phased out, and if this happened prior to the opening of Autoroute 10, because it could be possible that Transports Quebec took inspiration from the Thruway Authority in using blue signs, but again this is just a hypothesis.
First time I rode on the New York State Thruway was in 1967, headed to Expo 67 in Montréal. The signs on (what is now) the I-87 part of the Thruway were definitely buttoncopy white on blue then.
The Northway (I-87 north of the Thruway) was newly complete then (and
spectacular, with white shimmering shoulders covered with some sort of crushed stone, possibly limestone). A15 north of the border was an equally spectacular toll road (I think they might have accepted U.S. currency at the GSP-style toll barriers, not sure, as this was long before I was licensed). I do not remember what colors were used on the signs on A15, but I do recall the U.S.-style
EXIT tabs, this being Québec, the tabs read
SORTIE instead.
Other blue signs on the NY Thruway:
http://picclick.com/New-York-NY-State-Thruway-Harriman-Interchange-Postcard-311638752566.html
http://picclick.com/Buffalo-Niagara-New-York-State-Thruway-Exit-53-Check-Your-301975195122.html#&gid=1&pid=1
Ok, this is all interesting stuff from what people have from memory.
What has the most intrigue to me, is the person who claimed that the section of the Thruway in Greater Buffalo used green signs, while the rest used blue signs....if this is indeed true, what about the section of Thruway beyond the Woodbury toll barrier heading downstate? Assuming that all the tolled sections back then are still the same today.
This post here, if one could verify it, would lead me to believe that the Thruway Authority would use blue signs for toll roads and green signs for non tolled roads. If this indeed were the case, the New England Thruway would have had to use blue signs as well.
ALSO, the idea of red signs seems a bit far fetched to me but interesting nevertheless, A-15 originally had tolls so seeing blue signs there could have been seen as inspiration from what was going on down the road on the Thruway....the MTO years later would take inspiration from Quebec on Highway 407, or this is what is speculated, obviously we would never know for sure where the decisions came from in Quebec and Ontario for blue signs on toll roads. Although Quebec has since reintroduced toll roads, they have not brought back blue signs for these new roads and instead simply use green signs.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2016, 05:34:07 PM
First time I rode on the New York State Thruway was in 1967, headed to Expo 67 in Montréal. The signs on (what is now) the I-87 part of the Thruway were definitely buttoncopy white on blue then.
The Northway (I-87 north of the Thruway) was newly complete then (and spectacular, with white shimmering shoulders covered with some sort of crushed stone, possibly limestone). A15 north of the border was an equally spectacular toll road (I think they might have accepted U.S. currency at the GSP-style toll barriers, not sure, as this was long before I was licensed). I do not remember what colors were used on the signs on A15, but I do recall the U.S.-style EXIT tabs, this being Québec, the tabs read SORTIE instead.
So did the Northway have green signs back then? I would assume it did.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2016, 05:34:07 PM
The Northway (I-87 north of the Thruway) was newly complete then (and spectacular, with white shimmering shoulders covered with some sort of crushed stone, possibly limestone). A15 north of the border was an equally spectacular toll road (I think they might have accepted U.S. currency at the GSP-style toll barriers, not sure, as this was long before I was licensed). I do not remember what colors were used on the signs on A15, but I do recall the U.S.-style EXIT tabs, this being Québec, the tabs read SORTIE instead.
I have seen the pictures of the Northway when it was new. FHWA has a bunch of historical imagery. Nice to see that it really was as nice as it looked. A bit shocking to see that it was asphalt through the mountains, given that New York typically used concrete for everything back then. Believe it or not, many of the bridges between Exits 21 and 24 still have their original decks and railings.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on June 24, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
What has the most intrigue to me, is the person who claimed that the section of the Thruway in Greater Buffalo used green signs, while the rest used blue signs....if this is indeed true, what about the section of Thruway beyond the Woodbury toll barrier heading downstate? Assuming that all the tolled sections back then are still the same today.
This post here, if one could verify it, would lead me to believe that the Thruway Authority would use blue signs for toll roads and green signs for non tolled roads. If this indeed were the case, the New England Thruway would have had to use blue signs as well.
Good question. I'll ask my parents the next time I speak with them if nobody else has an answer. My father's family is from Downstate and they remember those kind of things. Of course, that also raises this question: what color were the signs on I-190 in Buffalo?
Originally, the ticket system ended in Spring Valley with barrier tolls at Tappan Zee and Ardsley, so it was technically only toll-free south of Exit 6. 15 was a ticket exit.
I remember seeing a movie from the early 1960s with scenes on the Thruway and the exit signs were green. The name of the movie escapes me at the moment but the car being chased ends up in a near vertical position.
I remember blue signs on the Niagara section, but I was pretty young then, so maybe I'm not remembering right. I do think the Thruway used a slightly different typeface in the blue sign era. Speed limit and yellow diamond signs were just a little different on the Thruway than on other roads.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on June 24, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
So did the Northway have green signs back then? I would assume it did.
I believe that the signs were white buttoncopy on green. Had they been some other color (like the Thruway) I would have remembered it, though I was only 8 years old at the time.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 25, 2016, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on June 24, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
So did the Northway have green signs back then? I would assume it did.
I believe that the signs were white buttoncopy on green. Had they been some other color (like the Thruway) I would have remembered it, though I was only 8 years old at the time.
I don't know that the interstates built in the early 60s by what is now NYSDOT had exit numbers. I've found newspaper articles on the building of 81 and there were never mentions of exit numbers.
This video has some nice stills of old Thruway signs. None in color, but a nice look back:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rlZAgxBrz08
Quote from: Sam on June 25, 2016, 09:21:00 PM
This video has some nice stills of old Thruway signs. None in color, but a nice look back:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rlZAgxBrz08
I can easily remember the signs shown at 6:52 along I-81. They were replaced in 1983 when the roadway was widened and the "bell shaped curve" at exit 24 was bypassed with the new bridge.
Quote from: Sam on June 25, 2016, 01:29:41 PM
I remember blue signs on the Niagara section, but I was pretty young then, so maybe I'm not remembering right. I do think the Thruway used a slightly different typeface in the blue sign era. Speed limit and yellow diamond signs were just a little different on the Thruway than on other roads.
I've brought this up before in the Clearview thread but didn't get an answer, but I believe the thruway did indeed use a slightly different version of the FHWA font. This font can still be seen on some signs, one that stands out being the Pattersonville Service Area signage, with the most notable different being the "S". In my opinion the Thruway version looks better than the modern version, but I doubt we'll see any new signs with this font. Other places where it can currently be seen are on some of the square-cornered advisory signs approaching toll plazas.
Alps roads has a couple of examples:
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/i-87/srest.jpg
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/i-90/wrest.jpg
I remember the old Exit 15, before I-287 changed that into Exit 15 and 15A, there was an old blue sign there even in the early 80's. Then they had one button copy green and one of them referred to NY-NJ as Route 17, most likely because of the two states using that particular route number, but the exit guide from the Thruway itself showed NY 17 going south into NJ on a later added sign.
Those older blue and one button copy green were either on NY 17 SB at the ramp leading to that former flyover that used to let SB NY 17 onto the toll road and Exit 15 traffic off onto NY 17 NB. The original Exit 15 as some might of remembered was a trumpet which defaulted into the NJ 17 expressway and movements into Hillburn or from Hillburn used a common loop flyover ramp. Prior to the Woodbury Plaza further north Spring Valley used to be the southern ticket terminus and Exit 15 had a toll plaza which was why that awkward interchange was there.
Also the NE Thruway had one at US 1 near New Rochelle even in the 80's. It used "Route 1" instead of US 1 as I guess the NYSTA used "NY" for its own state routes and "ROUTE" for the US routes opposite of what the PA Turnpike did prior to the 1984 button copy change in PA.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2016, 04:15:34 PM
I remember the old Exit 15, before I-287 changed that into Exit 15 and 15A, there was an old blue sign there even in the early 80's. Then they had one button copy green and one of them referred to NY-NJ as Route 17, most likely because of the two states using that particular route number, but the exit guide from the Thruway itself showed NY 17 going south into NJ on a later added sign.
Those older blue and one button copy green were either on NY 17 SB at the ramp leading to that former flyover that used to let SB NY 17 onto the toll road and Exit 15 traffic off onto NY 17 NB. The original Exit 15 as some might of remembered was a trumpet which defaulted into the NJ 17 expressway and movements into Hillburn or from Hillburn used a common loop flyover ramp. Prior to the Woodbury Plaza further north Spring Valley used to be the southern ticket terminus and Exit 15 had a toll plaza which was why that awkward interchange was there.
Also the NE Thruway had one at US 1 near New Rochelle even in the 80's. It used "Route 1" instead of US 1 as I guess the NYSTA used "NY" for its own state routes and "ROUTE" for the US routes opposite of what the PA Turnpike did prior to the 1984 button copy change in PA.
The Thruway authority used Route for everything on the blue guide signs and the first run of green guide signs. NYSDOT (and its predecessor) used N Y, U S, etc.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20151018115609if_/http://www.upstatenyroads.com/assets/790hist1.jpg)
Okay, for some fascinating films on YouTube for vintage NY Thruway signs, here are some tidbits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im_w1P7bQKs
Then, a movie called "BUtterfield8" which also has classic white-on-blue signs (with button copy, and general warning signs, like "merging traffic" all white-on-blue)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH1yqy35xbk
The top link's author also has other home movies with both upstate and downstate roads from 1950s and 1960s.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 26, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 26, 2016, 04:15:34 PM
I remember the old Exit 15, before I-287 changed that into Exit 15 and 15A, there was an old blue sign there even in the early 80's. Then they had one button copy green and one of them referred to NY-NJ as Route 17, most likely because of the two states using that particular route number, but the exit guide from the Thruway itself showed NY 17 going south into NJ on a later added sign.
Those older blue and one button copy green were either on NY 17 SB at the ramp leading to that former flyover that used to let SB NY 17 onto the toll road and Exit 15 traffic off onto NY 17 NB. The original Exit 15 as some might of remembered was a trumpet which defaulted into the NJ 17 expressway and movements into Hillburn or from Hillburn used a common loop flyover ramp. Prior to the Woodbury Plaza further north Spring Valley used to be the southern ticket terminus and Exit 15 had a toll plaza which was why that awkward interchange was there.
Also the NE Thruway had one at US 1 near New Rochelle even in the 80's. It used "Route 1" instead of US 1 as I guess the NYSTA used "NY" for its own state routes and "ROUTE" for the US routes opposite of what the PA Turnpike did prior to the 1984 button copy change in PA.
The Thruway authority used Route for everything on the blue guide signs and the first run of green guide signs. NYSDOT (and its predecessor) used N Y, U S, etc.
(https://web.archive.org/web/20151018115609if_/http://www.upstatenyroads.com/assets/790hist1.jpg)
Come to think of it, the NB NY Thruway guide for NY 59 in Nanuet had "ROUTE 59" on it up until NYSTA installed the overhead signs throughout Rockland County back in circa 88-89. It was the last of its kind, and it only had Spring Valley as a control city with "Nanuet" on a tacked on placecard beneath the main assembly.
Quote from: Sam on June 25, 2016, 09:21:00 PM
Early 80s shots of interchange signage at I-95/195 in Providence, RI are seen in 7:11 (I-95 northbound) & 7:52 (I-195 westbound) respectively. Too bad there wasn't a photo shot of the southbound I-95 signage of that period; the interchange BGS for I-195 East which featured experimental full-width, borderless
EXIT tabs with the text left-justified (to match the location of the exit ramp).
Quote from: Sam on June 25, 2016, 09:21:00 PM
This video has some nice stills of old Thruway signs. None in color, but a nice look back:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rlZAgxBrz08
Anybody know what book this is from? I'm trying to build a collection of old road books. Speaking of...any old CT Tpke signage anywhere?
Quote from: route17fan on June 29, 2016, 11:45:45 AM
Okay, for some fascinating films on YouTube for vintage NY Thruway signs, here are some tidbits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im_w1P7bQKs
The top link's author also has other home movies with both upstate and downstate roads from 1950s and 1960s.
Very cool video! I was particular intrigued by the "EXIT HERE FOR Monticello Liberty..." sign, because I remember secondary signs (the oldest white on green) said "EXIT 3/4 MILE FOR... " I don't ever remember seeing an "EXIT HERE FOR..." sign which makes me think that the blue and white vs green and white with the exit number on the bottom format might have been two different generations of signs. I can't imagine that signs from the original building of the Thruway would have made it until 1987 like some of those signs did.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 29, 2016, 06:10:51 PM
Quote from: route17fan on June 29, 2016, 11:45:45 AM
Okay, for some fascinating films on YouTube for vintage NY Thruway signs, here are some tidbits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im_w1P7bQKs
The top link's author also has other home movies with both upstate and downstate roads from 1950s and 1960s.
Very cool video! I was particular intrigued by the "EXIT HERE FOR Monticello Liberty..." sign, because I remember secondary signs (the oldest white on green) said "EXIT 3/4 MILE FOR... " I don't ever remember seeing an "EXIT HERE FOR..." sign which makes me think that the blue and white vs green and white with the exit number on the bottom format might have been two different generations of signs. I can't imagine that signs from the original building of the Thruway would have made it until 1987 like some of those signs did.
Agreed. I was also amused at how close the signs were to the side of the road. Oh if we could turn back time.... :nod:
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on June 29, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
Speaking of...any old CT Tpke signage anywhere?
A quick Google image search for original Connecticut Turnpike signage turns up many examples. The stretch between East Haven and Guilford (Exits 51-59) lasted until the early 1990s. That's pretty impressive, considering it was installed in 1958. That's 33 years out of that signage. Granted, it was pretty beat up and faded, but it was there. I distinctly remember it. I really should've taken more pictures back then. What was I thinking? Oh yeah, at the time I was just glad to see the old signs go and replaced by the present (Exits 54-59) Phase III outline button copy.
Quote from: shadyjay on June 29, 2016, 10:11:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on June 29, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
Speaking of...any old CT Tpke signage anywhere?
There is this CT Tpke specimen on Midland Ave - ironically just down from the state-named 95-287 (NY) shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9858471,-73.6738816,3a,15y,332.68h,85.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNkv9WSXlOHDZY73Jk_sOkQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: shadyjay on June 29, 2016, 10:11:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on June 29, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
Speaking of...any old CT Tpke signage anywhere?
A quick Google image search for original Connecticut Turnpike signage turns up many examples. The stretch between East Haven and Guilford (Exits 51-59) lasted until the early 1990s. That's pretty impressive, considering it was installed in 1958. That's 33 years out of that signage. Granted, it was pretty beat up and faded, but it was there. I distinctly remember it. I really should've taken more pictures back then. What was I thinking? Oh yeah, at the time I was just glad to see the old signs go and replaced by the present (Exits 54-59) Phase III outline button copy.
Somewhere in my archives, I have a book of postcards of the Connecticut Turnpike that was issued a year or two after the highway first opened. A number of the photos show the blue signs.
Bumping this thread from two Presidential administrations ago to see if anyone has an answer to this–what did the exit direction sign with the arrow look like? Did one even exist, or was the final sign before the exit the "KEEP RIGHT" sign? (The 1956 home video of the Harriman exit doesn't seem to show one, but I don't know whether it was just clipped out or it really was the last sign before the exit.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2022, 07:35:21 PM
Bumping this thread from two Presidential administrations ago to see if anyone has an answer to this–what did the exit direction sign with the arrow look like? Did one even exist, or was the final sign before the exit the "KEEP RIGHT" sign? (The 1956 home video of the Harriman exit doesn't seem to show one, but I don't know whether it was just clipped out or it really was the last sign before the exit.)
I know on the Connecticut Turnpike, exits traditionally got 2 signs... a 1 mile advance and a "KEEP RIGHT" sign (similar to what you see in that video of the Harriman exit). This was on the more rural section east of New Haven. \Some exits had a unique exit gore sign before the gore, acting sort of as an "exit now" sign. West of New Haven, there were more proper "exit now" signs with downward arrows angled towards the exit. All signs were blue. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Thruway's original blue signs had the same characteristics of "1 Mile" and "Keep Right" in the rural areas. Those signs were long gone when I started traveling the Thruway, but I do remember a good 10 miles of original blue signage on the Connecticut Turnpike which stuck around until 1991.
The Connecticut Turnpike used different signing techniques west of New Haven than east of New Haven. From NYS Line to I-91, the ramp signs read "WESTBOUND NEW YORK" and "EASTBOUND NEW HAVEN." While east of New Haven and up former CT 52, it was NEW HAVEN AND WEST and PROVIDENCE AND EAST. Then some EB ramps used "RHODE ISLAND AND EAST" with most ramps lacking I-95 shields as well.
This was all back in the 70's I recall a trip to New London with my folks then. Of course, the road was tolled then as well.
In the color video above... I noticed a makeshift gantry for an intersection with NY-208. I assume that's the current "I-86" Exit 130. Was NY-17 a freeway there yet at that time?
Too bad that video clip from "Butterfield 8" cut off where it did. In the movie that scene continues with State Troopers and their 1960 Fords with the siren on the roof.
I read somewhere that crash scene was filmed at the still unfinished interchange of the Thruway and the Cross Westchester Expwy in the Elmsford area.